dianne feinstein just confirming that the u.s.ng on angela merkel's phone calls since 2002. that, she says, is a big problem. nick, first to you. do you support this program, this nsa program that's been going on now apparently for years of spying on friendly allies? >> i think the basic problem has been that there's been no adult supervision. i think that too often, people have been spying because they could, because they had the technical means and there wasn't somebody saying look, what will we actually gain from this, and what are the risks if it's disclosed. the truth is that at some point, there are real risks of disclosure. so it's kind of the classic foreign policy dilemma that you have very modest tactical benefits and a huge strategic risk. that has now blown up in our faces. >> bill? >> i would say if you're going to eavesdrop on phone calls of the german chancellor, that has to be something that the president of the united states authorizes and thinks frankly is worth the risk of exposure, as nick says. you can't just

dianne feinstein and maybe other members of the committees are reacting to the image that they were notfully informed. i can assure you if they wanted to be fully informed they would have been. i spent a lot of time dealing with the oversight committees and they do not afail themselves of the information that would be available to them otherwise. i guess i see things differently. i see them precisely the opposite way. i do not believe for one moment that officials in other allied countries are going to some how cease cooperation in virtue of the fact that angela merkel's cell phone may or may not have been monitored. i'm sure they'll want this to go away. this is very much a politically driven thing. >> let's talk about the legislation being drilled town andownand proposed. how unusual is this. >> every time the patriotic has come up to be renewed has bee ts never been significant effort to push them back and quite the opposite, expand some of the laws. but i'm somewhat skeptical of this. i think you might see some changes to circumstances under which certain information can be accessed

democratic senator dianne feinstein and long time defender of america's surveillance operation has called for a total review of all intelligence programs. she said, quote, unless the united states is engaged in hostility against a country or there is an emergency need for this type of surveillance, i do not believe that the united states should be collecting phone calls and e-mails of friendly presidents and prime ministers. for his part president obama stressed a need to find a balance between what is technically possible and what is right. >> what i'm confirm something that we're undergoing a complete review of how our intelligence operates out of the country. there are strict laws governoring what we do internally. that was the initial concern brought by snowdon disclosures. internationally there are less constraints on hou how our intelligence teams work. but as technology develops and expands, and the capacity for intelligence gathering becomes greater we have to make sure that we do things in the right way and reflect our values. >> reform efforts in congress includes the addition o

. >> the chair of the senate intelligence committee dianne feinstein been a lawyer defender of the nsa broken ranks with the agency and now calling for a full review of all of their surveillance programs. she quote, totally opposed to spying on u.s. allies and adds congress has not been kept in the loop. feinstein's counterpart, republican susan collins agrees in a statement she says, she notes there's no justification for collecting intel on leaders of our closest allies and said she will meet with the german ambassador tonight to say she is opposed to the phone tapping. we begin with capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell. the hearing is in a break but

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coming up in ten minutes, an exclusive interview with senator dianne feinstein. her take on the shutdown and the tea party. >>> a late breaking development to keep a cr-v transit buses in service. the governor intervened negating a strike tomorrow and a 60-day cooling off period. transit workers threatened to walk off the job as early as tomorrow morning. jodi hernandez joins us with more. >> this is exactly what many riders, raj, have been praying for, for the governor to step in and help keep the buses rolling. now, until just a couple of hours ago, bus riders, ac bus riders didn't know if they would have a bus to catch at the bus stop tomorrow morning. thanks to the governor, the strike fears have been put on hold. >> we haven't heard anything from the governor at this point. we're moving ahead as if there will be a strike. >> that was ac transit just two hours ago. but the threat of a strike tomorrow is now off the table. as governor jerry brown takes action to keep buses rolling at least for now. the governor is calling for a seven-day investigation into the

see this playing out because it's very interesting i see people in congress scrambling about this dianne feinstein is all over the place it's really almost surreal i mean she on the one hand says she's really against the surveillance of foreign leaders but on the other hand she wants the cot if i input into law a lot of these illegal practices i mean this is schizophrenia when it comes to the national security state. i think this is a matter of survival of the united states because we are about to lose our allies and a very accurate analysis coming out of the defense department shows that we are about to lose germany as an ally this is a matter of national security whatever the people think that they are doing on behalf of the american people they absolutely are not when you look at what american opinion is seventy five percent of the american people want to work together with our allies they don't want to be a go it alone nation in foreign affairs this is absolutely abysmal and what you have to fault is the american press because they are not telling the american public what's going on

. >> reporter: hi, shawn.orte hi,n earlier this year senator dianne feinstein, a democrat from aemor california, introduced the billb to stop the sale ande nd manufacturing of military stylee assault weapons in a high-capacity ammunition device. doing so during a pressing conference she had props broughb in the hearing, illegal firearmi to have in d.c. you can see the senator standinn right in front of the guns here. here's a list some of those gun were able to produce for theor e show and tell, a bush master xm-15, smith & wesson and a glock 19 with a high-capacity magazine.e. emily miller with the washington times excused the freedom ofeedf information act to find out howw feinstein's office was able to o get these illegal weapons intoao the capitol building.i thank you for joining us.g us. >> thanks for having me.me your article didn't deal with the controversy over assaultssa weapons and gun control.co it was really how did theow dide senator get these guns into theh capitol building, who helped hee and fairness. >> yeah, this has been --been there's been a large effort toot cove

dianne reidy is a 48-year-old mother of twins. her facebook page is punctuated with religious messages like -- to god be the glory. she was hustled off the floor of the house by capitol police and taken to the hospital for a mental evaluation. >> what made this so much more dramatic is that i could see the reactions of people around this woman who knew her. and who clearly just felt terrible. >> "chicago sun-times" washington bureau chief lynn sweet shot this dramatic video. >> of some people that looked like they were crying around because this was one of their own. who somehow for some reason, snapped. >> reidy was ranting about the founding fathers and freemasons who have long been a target for conspiracy theorists. dan brown's bestseller "the lost symbol" featured sinister freemasons in dc and the movie "national treasure" centered on a treasure hidden by the freemasons during the revolutionary war. but there was nothing fictional about this public meltdown in front of millions of people by the stenographer on live tv. >> debo

and given what we heard from senator dianne feinstein yesterday it would seem to suggest that chairman mike rogers didn't actually know about it if his counterpart in the senate didn't know about it and neither intelligence committees were fully briefed on this program that authorized spying on world leaders well that was political commentator sound facts on capitol hill thank you. and just today our chief sat down with ecuadorian president rafael correa during his visit to moscow korea isn't russia not to talk about the n.s.a. but rather to boost the friendly relations that already exist between the two countries the relationship between ecuador and russia gain new momentum this year as the two countries align their support behind former u.s. government contractor edward snowden artie's alexi your shut ski has more from president gray a. f.l. korea is now in moscow the very same city where edward snowden their whistleblower now resides on his political asylum the breaking revelations of whom infuriated the leader of ecuador back this summer and he is still pretty much angry especially

just every country around the world here in washington the tone took a very serious turn as senator dianne feinstein a vocal and us a supporter called out the agent agency she said quote with respect to n.s.a. collection of intelligence on leaders of u.s. allies let me state unequivocally i am totally opposed i do not believe the united states should be collecting phone calls or e-mails of friendly presidents and prime ministers meanwhile on capitol hill the house intelligence committee held a hearing to discuss the role of pfizer in the surveillance of american citizens or the foreign intelligence surveillance act is the piece of legislation that sets guidelines for the n.s.a.'s bulk collection of foreign intelligence information this was the committee's second open hearing since former government contractor edward snowden leaked detailed information about how the programs operate back in june in a statement a house panel spokesperson said the hearing was in place to quote assess a number of proposals to improve transparency and strengthen privacy protections to further build the confiden

what dianne feinstein called for would be welcome if it is a rigorous review. look to the church committee in the 1970s as an example of a series of public and classified hearings that really dove deeply into the different programs, intelligence programs. if we see something like that again, it really goes beyond the current revelations that we already seen through the snowden leaks. that would be useful and considering what reforms could proceed from there. >> so many of the debates in washington are divided right down the middle along party lines. what is an interesting component as it relates to the nsa and each and every time we discuss it, you have some republicans like peter king who say the president should not apologize and the nsa is in the right direction and others within his party who obviously disagree. senator feinstein to name one. but the same could be said about democrats as far as what they see should happen with the nsa and concerns expressed. >> senator feinstein is a democrat and we see a serious bipartisan shifting around here on this. but

joining us now is congresswoman dianne black. she serves in both the budget committee, the house ways and means committee. she's also been a registered nurse for more than 40 years. congresswoman, it's great to have you back with us. you've had a busy day. it continues, i know you're short on time. give us a sense with the threat from the house, i just would love to get your interpretation of this, the threat of a veto from the white house, does that imply that there may be a fear that the senate might go along with you? >> we don't know that, lou. until it goes over to the senate, i'm not going to even take a guess at what the senate would do. this is really a difficult time because we have both the senate and also the president saying they're not willing to even talk to the members of congress and the house. this is just ridiculous. we've got the president who is willing to negotiate with iran and russia and syria, but not with the members of congress. >> this is startling, because i think this is one of those unintended conseq

on the other side of capitol hill, in the senate, senate intelligence committee chairwoman dianne #, when she found abou leaders, it seemed to suggest that this is completely fair game and that it is something the nsa should be doing. >> it seems like there are questions over when and how much the white house new about -- white house knew about the surveillance. does it seem like they were aware? >> there is a question when it comes to the intelligence community. chairman mike rogers suggested that the committee knew about this waste on the national intelligence primary framework. it is a giant report that the intelligence committee and the white house get that has the priorities of the intelligence committee. but other members of the committee pushed back. saying, hey, this committee didn't know about it. they asked the nsa why they were not informed about these programs, which led to this competition between chairman mike rogers and connor smith adam schiff about whether or not he actually knew about the program to spy on world leaders. >> i'd be interested to know, mr. chairman --

dianne black of tennessee may be a rare woman among that sea of republican men, but dianne black doesme to call her congresswomen. she wants you to call her congressman. she goes by congressman dan black. this is her official web site, diane black. also at the bottom, contact congressman black. a unique perspective to her work in washington. the republicans have added a woman to their roster of men, and with the addition of dianne black, you're free to describe the group as a group of congressmen, even though they now have a woman. hard to keep track of that. we also learned today that republicans are working on their own version of health reform now. what are the gods that what they produce will not be seen from the house that is 90% white and 92% mail. what are the odds? whach this space. >>> remember this guy? not a superhero or a wrestler who looks good in primary colors, but note the placement of the stars amid the blue and red. he calls himself the southern avenger. this guy is back, or at least his brand of southern republican politics is back. hold on. that story is next. mayb

joining us now is congresswoman dianne black. she serves in both the budget committee, the house ways and means commtee. she's also been a registered nue for more than 40 years. congresswoman, it's great to have you back with us. you've had a busy day. it continues, i know you're short on time. give us a sense with the threat from the house, i just would love to get your interpretation of this, t a veto from the white house, does that imply that there may be aear that the senate might go along with you? >> we don't know that, lou. until it goes over t the senate, i'm not going to even take a guess at what the senate would do. this is really a difficult time becauswe have both the senate and so the president saying they're not willing to even talk to the members of congress and the house. this ijust ridiculous. 've got the president who is willing toegotiate with iran and russia and syria, but not with the members of congress. >> this is startling, because i think this is one of those unintended consequences of the behavior of bot

whatever now what's what's happening and what's really bothering me here is the big lies continue dianne feinstein who are selfish complicit in this whole arrangement just lie. mike rogers on the house side they are complicit what she says oh if we had this before nine eleven it would have been prevented just the opposite is true and all one needs to do is go to colin wildly testimony from the f.b.i. showing that it was a lack of sharing it was a lack of opaqueness so a lack of of transparency actually that contributed to the fact that these things weren't sorted together the dots were not connected stovepipes or in existence and it's just the opposite of what dianne feinstein is saying and she should know and she does know that he she is not telling the truth she is not saying i'm afraid we're brought on a time when nothing would happen like trust politicians here many thanks to my guests today in washington and in london thanks to our viewers for watching us here and remember. the. good lumber tour. was able to build a most sophisticated. doesn't sound anything tunes mission to teach c

whatever now what's what's happening and what's really bothering me here is the big lies continue dianne feinstein who are selfish complicit in this whole arrangement just like. pictures on the house side they are complicit what she says oh if we had this before nine eleven it would have been prevented just the opposite is true and all one needs to do is go to kohli and riley rallies testimony from the f.b.i. showing that it was a lack of sharing it was a lack of opaque opaqueness so a lack of of transparency actually that contributed to the fact that these things weren't sorted together the dots were not connected stovepipes were in existence and it's just the opposite of what dianne feinstein is saying and she should know and she does know that he she is not telling the truth she's not what i'm saying i'm afraid we're brought on a time when nothing would happen you would not trust politicians here many thanks to my guests today in washington and in london thanks to our viewers for watching us here on c.n.n. and remember. meeting with. some. real damage and complexity of this oil spill

meantime, senator dianne feinstein offering her take on the looming b.a.r.t. strike. >> i think it's a very bad time for a big transportation strike. i think it hurts a lot of people and you know, i was mayor of san francisco for nine years, and nine years as county supervisor and i saw in those days the 70s and partly in the 80s, a large number of public employee strikes. they don't work. they leave deep scar tissue. >> senator feinstein went on to urge b.a.r.t. unions to approve what she feels is a very generous package. you can see the entire interview we have with her on our website, nbcbayarea.com. search dianne feinstein. >>> you can also get the latest information on the po 0 tension b.a.r.t. strike on our website. at the top of the page a tab called b.a.r.t. strike resources that will take to you a map with real time traffic updates, commute alternatives and real time tweets from transit agencies across the bay area, plus if there has to be a b.a.r.t. strike, "today in the bay" will be on air early starting at 4:00 a.m. >> along with b.a.r.t. ac transi

jim, first to you, a tough statement from the chairman, dianne feinstein. what is the white house reaction? >> the white house reaction in part, wolf, is that the senator is correct that the president did not know about this foreign surveillance program aimed at world leaders. but they are taking issue, wolf, with one thing that the senator did say in that statement and that these collection activities aimed at foreign leaders will not continue. i talked to a senior administration official earlier this evening who says that part of the statement is inaccurate. they are being changed on that basis. and in large part these policies and programs are continuing for the time being while all of this is being reviewed. as you mentioned, wolf, the folks on capitol hill want to take a look at this. but the white house maintains they are conducting their own internal review right now. there may be changes by the end of the year. >> the white house is adamant that the president didn't know about the eavesdropping on the german chancellor. president obama didn't know a

and dianne feinstein weighed in with this. i am quoting now. it is my understanding that president obama was not aware that chancellor merkel's communications were being collected since 1992. that was a big problem. she also says she was not briefed either and is calling for a review of the white house programs. our chief national security correspondent jim sciutto is joining us, jim, a tough statement from dianne feinstein, what is the white house's reaction? >> well, the white house's reaction is that the senator is correct, the president did not know about this foreign surveillance program aimed at world leaders. but they are taking issue, wolf, with one thing that the senator did say in that statement. and that is that these collection activities aimed at foreign leaders will not continue. i talked to a senior administration official who said that part of the statement is not accurate. that some of these programs are being changed on an individual basis. but that in large part, these policies, these programs are continuing for the time bein

and late today, dianne feinstein weighed in with this. and i'm quoting now, "it is my understanding that president obama was not aware chancellor merkel's communications were being collected since 2002. that is a big problem." she also says she wasn't briefed either and is calling for a review of all intelligence programs. others are being no less blunt and the white house is in deep damage control mode right now. jim, first to you, a tough statement from the chairman, dianne feinstein. what is the white house reaction? >> the white house reaction in part, wolf, is that the senator is correct that the president did not know about this foreign surveillance program aimed at world leaders. but they are taking issue, wolf, with one thing that the senator did say in that statement and that these collection activities will not continue. i talked to a senior administration official who says that part of the statement is unaccurate. and in large part these policies and programs are continuing for the time being while all this is being reviewed. a

needs considerable reform senator dianne feinstein the chairwoman of the senate intelligence committee valid today to protect the n.s.a. i so regret what is happening i will do everything i can to prevent this program from being canceled out there's going to be a bill in my committee to do it there's a bill in this committee to do it it is legal we are looking at increased transparency we are looking to make some changes in but we are not looking to destroy it to destroy is to make this nation more vulnerable republicans and democrats may agree on curtailing the n.s.a.'s powers but there are deep divisions within both parties between leadership like senator dianne feinstein and rank and file members like senator ron wyden or congressman justin amash and exactly what n.s.a. reform looks like if it ever happens depends on who wins this debate between leadership and the rest of congress. then federal workers aren't the only folks paying close attention to what's happening in congress this week so too are many iraqis that's because that midnight on tuesday not only did the government shut

together the dots were not connected stovepipes or in existence and it's just the opposite of what dianne feinstein is saying and she should know and she does know that he she is not telling the truth she's not what i'm saying i'm afraid we're brought on a time when nothing would happen you would not trust politicians here many thanks to my guests today in washington and in london thanks to our viewers for watching us here on c.n.n. and remember. we see. real damage and complexity of this oil spill was not something you grasp just by looking at dirty birds we have between four to five million people in this directly affected area of the coast and it's pretty clear why it's not being reported because b.p. can't afford to have a reported all along the gulf coast are clean they are safe and they're open for business if b.p. is the single largest oil contributor to the pentagon the u.s. war machine is heavily reliant upon b.p. and their oil this is a huge step backwards for democracy it's a step forward for. it. is a. it was a it was not a picture. or b.p. really wanted to i don't want disper

and late today, dianne feinstein weighed in with this. and i'm quoting now, "it is my understanding that president obama was not aware chancellor merkel's communications were being collected since 2002. that is a big problem." she also says she wasn't briefed either and is calling for a review of all intelligence programs. others are being no less blunt and the white house is in deep damage control mode right now. jim, first to you, a tough statement from the chairman, dianne feinstein. what is the white house reaction? >> the white house reaction in part, wolf, is that the senator is correct that the president did not know about this foreign surveillance program aimed at world leaders. but they are taking issue, wolf, with one thing that the senator did say in that statement and that these collection activities will not continue. i talked to a senior administration official who says that part of the statement is unaccurate. and in large part these policies and programs are continuing for the time being while all this is being reviewed. a

. >> he denies he put it in and harry reid and dianne feinstein aagree.hey say he didn't do it. >> he didn't have anything to do with it. >> dianne feinstein says i approved the money. it passed both houses before. why now? because there is no money. isn't funded. it shuts down, that would be terrible. barge traffic and this river is important. we wanted to fund it but because it's part -- >> why slot it into a government funding -- why put that in when there is 50, 100 projects all over the country? >> why put in money for the widow of frank lautenberg who has already got $16 million. >> that was in there, too. >> that's much more offensive. of all the things to put in. >> what the folks are probably asking now is, when you have this bill, why just not have this bill and then put that into why unique sneak this in? >> they always sneak things in. they like to spend wherever they can. what i think is wonderful for the first time people are saying oh, i didn't do it it they used to brag. mitch mcconnell ran ads last election bragging about he got the first

you talk about dianne feinstein being surprised she doesn't know or does this stretch to the americanation as a whole with possible outrage morning the citizens about what the country is doing or they just don't care? >> i think the average american citizen expects the intelligence organization to collect information to provide for their security and their safety. there is an intelligence failure that led to 9/11 and people don't want to see that repeated. so the average american is interested in making sure the information is collected that will be useful to them, not so much what the target might be. >> reporter: and bob we thank you very much indeed for that, joining us in our discussion former cia officer talking from the united kingdom. video emerged showing hostages in the philippines being shot at during a siege last month and the military said they were simply caught in the cross fire, as the army fought rebels in the southern city of zombawanka and we will hear from them in a moment and first we report. [gunfire] the maker of the on line video says it shows hostages shouting

whatever now what's what's happening and what's really bothering me here is the big lies continue dianne feinstein who are selfish complicit in this whole arrangement just like mike rogers on the house side they're complicit what she says oh if we had this before nine eleven it would have been prevented just the opposite is true and all one needs to do is go to colin rowley rallies testimony from the f.b.i. showing that it was all wacko. sharing it was a lack of opaqueness or a lack of transparency actually that contributed to the fact that these things or shorted together the dots were not connected stovepipe sure it exists and it's just the opposite of what dianne feinstein is saying and she should know and she does know that he she is not telling the truth she's not what i'm saying i'm afraid you brought out a trifle not what happened with the trust politicians here many thanks to my guest today in washington and in london thanks to our viewers for watching us here on c.n.n. and remember. these . splits divide the syrian opposition party takes a close look at why. it's just a few kilo

together the dots were not connected stovepipes were in existence and it's just the opposite of what dianne feinstein is saying and she should know and she does know that he she is not telling the truth she's not what i'm saying i'm afraid we're brought on a time when nothing would happen like trust politicians here many thanks to my guests today in washington and in london thanks to our viewers for watching us here on c.n.n. and remember. these . wealthy british science. is not on. market why not. find out what's really happening to the global economy with my next concert for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines. keyser report. the olympic torch is on its journey to such a. one hundred twenty three days. through two hundred towns and cities of russia. really fourteen thousand people or sixty five thousand killings. in a record setting trip by land air. space. torch relay. m r t r t. breaking news this hour u.s. lawmakers strike a deal to stave off to fold and reopen government potentially ending two weeks of brinkmanship that have left the dollar more vulnerable than it

do endorse dianne feinstein's idea?sst: there is nothing we do a federal government that shouldn't be subject to review and analysis. z review is fine. it is part of our oversight responsibilities on the intelligence committee both in the house and senate. i don't think it ever hurts to they are doing, how they are doing it, is it effective, do we still need to do it? notes"the new york times" that what ms. feinstein is talking about would be a "major undertaking." again, i don't know what she is talking about. on the house intelligence committee, we review things constantly. if you want to go through everything the nsa does that is something we will do. host: this afternoon's hearing before the house intelligence committee, what will you be asking those two? asked most of the questions in private sessions. we will ask the kind of questions that allows general alexander and general clapper to explain to the american people what we are and are not doing. made,is a lot of mistakes some honest and some for sensational valu

dianne feinstein says immediately, well, if we are doing it we won't do it anymore.hey said don't say that. maybe you have spoken too soon. i have a feeling that will continue and it worries me. if there is one thing my relatives taught me, germans do not like to be surprised. that is a bad, bad thing. they like order. >> andy, let's talk about this thing in spain. looks like your hero, edward snowden, has done it again. what a great guy he is. basically airing our detery laundry. >> i want to talk about feinstein. it is because i said over and over on the show that i like what snowden did in terms of the domestic stuff, but i don't like what he reveals. i think we should be dhoog to other countries. -- should be doing that to other countries. dianne feinstein has no problem with the nsa collecting bulk data from american citizens. i don't get that at all. if she is the senator from california or coitsburg? >> what is wrong with taking bulk data? sear -- seriously. i am for both data in america and spying on those foreign countries. >> i mean, look, i think if are yo

she spoke with dianne sawyer shot on her way home from school one year ago this week. >> all my friendthat wise? it was brave but was it wise? >> i wanted to live my life as i want. >> remarkably the woman she tells dianne she thought words book pen had more power than guchbility more this criminal us little girl and special coming up friday night 10:00 o'clock over on abc 7 news. compelling television no doubt. compelling television no doubt. >> coming up next 7 news at 9:00. young football fan memorable touch down. remember this. app how he we all like? ron: i'm sorry, who are you? jc: i'm your coworker! c'mon guys. i'm driving. hey, you guys comfortable? it's best-in-class rear legroom. and with a turbo engine that gets 34 highway m-p-g. you know j.d. power ranked passat the most appealing midsize car two years in a row? i bet, uh, dan here wishes somebody found him most appealing two years in a row. ron: it's ron jc: ron... exactly. extra curricular activities help provide a sense of identity and a path to success. joining the soccer team. getting help with math. going to prom. i w

hard work. >> in falls church, dianne roberts, wusa9 sports. >> wow, much recap here. full day of school, football practice, midnight shift, which leaves about three hours of sleep and still through it all, 3.5 grade point average. you go, quite a guy. ladies. >> sure is. all right dave, perhaps nobody can run a joke or catch a phrase into the ground like a sixth grader. and the catch phrase kids are running into is from that geico commercial. here's a snippet. >> guess what today is? >> it's hump day. >> did i do that right? you sold it. >> vernon center middle school, administrators say a group of sixth grade boys started using the phrase so much, it has been disruptive. >> everybody is walking around the hallways and saying it is hump day, in that weird voice. >> i don't really think that it is that big of a disruption if people are doing it in the hallways. >> no one does it better than derek. there's no outright ban on the phrase. teachers are doing all they can to discourage its use until those sixth graders find something else more amusing. >>> good evening, eve

. >> general, i was shocked to see dianne feinstein demand more from the nsa. a friend said her going up to the nsa is like joe biden going after amtrak. so i'm wondering from your perspective, are you concerned about too much oversight? are you willing or do you acknowledge there needs to be more oversight, more disclosure and transparency about these practices? >> look, i'm fully in favor of more disclosure and more transparency. it's an easy do to the committee. now, it's quite another thing how much you want to make public to the american public and, the really interesting question here is now the demand that european publics want to be told how we spy. chance lor merkel asked the watergate question, what did the president know and when did he know it? a foreign loader asking that of an american leader kind of shows where the center lean of the current conversation now rests. we need to kind of push that back towards the middle a bit. >> general, sort of listening to dianne feinstein being shocked this was going on sort of reminded me of do i an feinstein a

dianne feinstein, a muscular proponent of expensive surveillance and has repeatedly carried water forwo administrations to expand the surveillance laws is furious apparently by her own statements primarily because she was out of the loop. she like the president reportedly out of the loop. the nsa out of the loop compared to obviously some of their targets. the only loop that seems to work here is at the nsa itself, where you have 25,000 employees working on a bunch of important security stuff and a bunch of other stuff, which if you believe the president, is nonessential. and is not part of our security because it can be stopped and started at will for diplomatic other other reasons. isn't there a larger problem here of an agency that is so large, even its biggest defenders are upset or claiming they are not in dialogue with the leadership? >> it does -- it's not great for the president either way for him to say he did no idea what was going on, nsa was listening to angela merkel and others, if it's true he didn't know and die fi didn't know and these elected officials and people in t