we call that the foia foyer. foia foyer. we call it that all year long. by the way, it does look like the sun is beginning to peek out a little bit, befitting this freedom of information day during sunshine week. i want to make sure that everyone here in the audience knows that we do have handouts, many handouts up there including detailed biographical sketch on everyone who's speaking here today. so you'll find that the moderators, including myself, we will not spend a lot of time with respect to biographical details. we'll try to get as much content out during the day as possible. and i'm going to sit in on this first panel, but i'll introduce first mariam nisbet. hopefully, more and more people out in the viewing audience as the -- i can't say new director, you're the founding director, it's been in existence since 2009. it only feels like ten years or four weeks, depending on the department of the office of government services, ogis for short. she came back from paris to her husband's dismay to accept that career position of ogis. >> he was with me. >

asked foia questions. the second was a foia focus where we would profile someone active in the foia community. i agreed with both of these suggestions here. i note that the, one problem we had with foia focus is that we did once feature the hud foia officer, who four years later pled guilty to falsifying federal mortgage documents. >> that was not under indictment at the time we published it. >> exactly, and if he was being investigated, it hadn't been shared with us. all right, in 1984, dan suggested publishing guidance on congressional access to agency records under the foia, exemption 7-8 and personal records and i agree. due to the expansive growth of the short guide to the freedom of information act, the federal trade comission told us it was false advertising to continue to call it the short guide, so in 1986, dan suggested it be called just the department of justice guide to the foia, and i agreed. in 1986, the legal education institute was no longer able to continue teaching these two-day foia clas

one is our foia scorecard on government agencies. last year we requested foia logs from every government agency. most of them i'm glad to say were very responsive. they produced the records that we requested, and the logs had the information that we were looking for. the logs were -- they were graded based on five things. they were graced based on the name of the requester, the subject matter, the status of the request, the final disposition, and -- sorry. i'm blanking on the last one. >> the format. >> yes, the stormate. because a lot of them were unable to produce electronic copies. sometimes we got hard copies only. sometimes we got heavily redacted pdf formats that were not searchable. so many agencies were not tracking key information. some of them were missing tracking information. the tracking number that's legally required to be put on foia requests that are open more than ten days. some agencies did very well. some departments did very well. the treasury department, we were impressed that they were actually using consistent

make a foia request. a lot of people are unfamiliar with all of the basics of the foia law. it's not necessarily a basic law, it can be comprehensive. we would like to better inform the public and the house offices that are handling foia requests with constituent services so that they are better served and they're getting access to the data they need. so in closing i'll mention one thing that we're working with the minority on, which is a gao foia per expectus. gao is going to be looking in agency foia compliance. one of the aims of that is to see how well agencies are enacting eric holder's memo on government openness and transparency. we also asked them to look into compliance with e-foia and pro active disclosure and we also asked them to look at the accuracy and usefulness of data c contained on foia.gov, it's a new web site on foia where can you go and get reporting information from past requests. that's something what we should have the results of this summer and we will be following up with agencie

matters and we know that foia matters coming up. we hope we've establishes i a new cgs tradition, speaking of next year, and would extend a standing or sitting invitation right at this moment to you folks from each of your vantage points to come back because nothing is as good as having all four parts,

foia regs. sort of the most pressworthy issue there was this idea they were going to simply deny the existence of documents. but those regs aside from that, even if the doj is to back off of that position, the regs were just bad overall. they made it much more difficult for requesters to obtain fee statuses. they made it more difficult to get expedited processing and they made it more difficult for requesters to get requests in general. we haven't seen anything come out of the doj about this. i was wondering what the status of that is. whether they plan on addressing some of those other issues. >> okay. thank you. the justice department's probably the best place to answer your question. i can tell you the issues with the exclusions that come up at our hearing, we asked about that and we were told the regulation is being finalized and we would get more information from the department about that. i haven't seen the other regs. i know there were a lot of issues and concerns that many in the request

the problem with that is the cia every time you ask them for a foia log they give you the foia log that doesn't list the name of the requester. it's as though that's not a field in their foia database which is really sort of bizarre and that was in darrell issa's letter yesterday when it did the report card for agencies, and it noticed that the cia did not give names of requesters in the foia log, and then they said or, if you have to, but this is really disfavored, you can give us a copy of every request you've received for the last four years. and they said we cannot determine what information you're looking for, so we're going to refuse to process this request, it's not reasonably describing the records sought. that was one of the policy challenges that we were fighting against. and then they briefed in a motion to dismiss. this is why it's vague. and then they briefed in a motion for summary judgment why that particular request was vague. i opposed it, and then they reversed their position, sort of. they said we will now process this request. we will only give you the every request

so you're looking at perhaps lower foia. i'm wondering does the justice department have a role here? i can tell people, hey, it's a law, freedom of information act is a law. we have to have people to carry out that law. but i don't really count for much in the air force. so should the department of justice be telling defense department and other agencies you have to preserve these people because they are there to carry out a law? >> i think there's some difficulty with justice telling other agencies how they should allocate their money. i remember going back quite a while ago when the head foia person at dod going back into the, oh, geez, probably the 80s said i don't mind being told to do more than less. it's just i don't like it when i'm told to do it faster as well. and that's the sort of problem, i think, that a lot of us have. sometimes we can get from automation we are able to increase the speed and improve things a little bit with that, but i recognize automation costs us money as well. and once we've made that increa

or i suppose the role of ogis and foia. so ogis today i think plays a very important and valuable role in our foia system. i want to highlight the three activities in particular. the first are the requester services or the facilitation that you have been hearing about and before i go on, i'd like to get an idea of who's in the audience here. there's always such a diverse group of people at the collaboration of government secre secrecy events. raise your hand if you've ever filed a foia request. >> and you're willing to self-identify. >> raise your hand if you have used ogis' requester services. okay. a few. raise your hand if you are a foia professional. also a good bit. raise your hand if you have been on the other end of ogis' request for services. okay. so a good number of folks with some first-hand experience here. for the rest of you, i think it's important to recognize that the requester service have a real value at both an individual and a macro level. there were somewhere around half a million foia requests filed ac

you disable everybody that touches foia, well, who's left? >> well, there's a legal principle that applies there and it comes up what ena group of federal judges sue for a salary increase and the principle is if everyone is recused, then nobody is. >> so many lovely rules and practice. you don't see much of. we shouldn't think of the practicality of it, but certainly sunshine seems reasonable. >> one other thought. the sarbanes-oxley has a law where the ceo of a company and the chief financial officer has to sign off on the financial statements and they are personally liable. >> yep. >> why not when it comes to foia where you have an agency official who has a self-interest because you're investigating agency c

only its second foia denial. after the vaughn v. rosen case. whereas, more than 20 years ago, she founded the transactional records clearing house with david bernham which has requests and litigation made available to the public detailed information on federal enforcement, staffing and spending. whereas, in so doing, she has uniquely influenced the development of the foia during its formative years and beyond. therefore, susan long is deserving of this recognition as recipient of the 2012 robert vaughn foia award. there is one more thing. as befits the type of legal document the government has to file in court in freedom of information act cases, the final sentence. it is here by declared with 1746 that the foregoing is true and correct. i give you professor long. [ applause ] >> thank you, dan and thank you, alan, for all those kind words. you know, when dan called me to let me know that we were all going to award me this very significant honor and it had the word legend in it, i immediately thought, that means

matters and we know that foia matters coming up. we hope we've establishes i a new cgs tradition, speaking of next year, and would extend a standing or sitting invitation right at this moment to you folks from each of your vantage points to come back because nothing is as good as having all four parts, bicameral, bipartisan of capitol hill represented. thank you very much for that. >> as this hearing comes to a close, we'll go live to capitol hill for coverage of afghanistan war commanding general john and we'll take a break. >>> tomorrow, michael green, former member of the security council talks about south korea general security. gretchen morgenson looks at freddie may and freddie mac to discuss after the expiration of washington journal on c-stan. >> follow c-span throughout the week. explore the literary and literary culture. >> you had calls going up and down the mississippi delta and the next morning between 600 and #,000 men, white men pour into phillips county to begin shooting down blacks. >> and on american c-span 3, bruc

jeffrey lebeaux in a foia case in d.c. he was participating in a protest in the imf when somebody, not him, but somebody else in the group threw an object out the window of a hotel and broke it. the fbi did an investigation in which they executed a search warrant against -- and searched the home of a photojournalist, who was there, and i represented the photojournalist in a claim under the privacy protection act against the fbi. and i deposed several of the agents and asked them for information about that were at the protest, and i asked about mr. lebeau, and i was told that the fbi knew about him, that he was a known extremist, and that they couldn't tell me whether he had a crs file or what was in it because there was currently an ongoing law enforcement investigation. when -- i later brought the lawsuit for mr. lebeau, after he had done a foia request and the fbi said they had no response of records. it was fairly apparent that the reason that they were saying that was that they had relied on an exclusion, and so in the

asked foia questions.the second was a foia focus where we would profile someone active in the foia committee. i agreed with both of these suggestions. i note that the one problem we had with foia focus is that we did once feature that had foia officer who four years later pled guilty to falsifying federal mortgage documents. >> not under indictment at the time. >> exactly but it is being investigated it hadn't been shared with us. [inaudible] >> in 1984, dan suggested publishing guidance on congressional access to agency records under the foia, extension seven aecom and personal records, and i agreed. due to the expansive growth of the short guide to the freedom of information day, the federal trade commission told us it was false advertising, continue to call it the short guide. so in 1986 dan suggested it be called just the department of justice guide to the foia, and i agree. in 1986, the legal education institute was no longer able to continue teaching these two-day foia classes. so dan suggested oipa

and how likely do you think it is that foia will be amended? >> great question for us to wrap up on, too. thank you. let's go down starting on the far end, krista, you want to take a little time? >> you can handle this one. by the way, i should say this is such a simple question for staff or anyone in washington, for my dog in fact to answer about what congress is going to do this year. [laughter] >> i would expect that the most important foia issue that will come up is related to the post-miller reaction to whether anything is done or not done. i think in the context of the cybersecurity legislation, being move, that that's a very prominent issue but as i think that's a very real one that congress will face. as to the likelihood of something being passed, i would say i don't know. >> tegan? >> i agree with krista, that what is likely to. what i really like to see is, and hopefully will be able to do this this year, is to encourage more agencies proactive disclosure, because i think that would help requested a good also help agencies because th

asked foia questions. the second was a foia focus where we would profile someone active in the foia community. i agreed with both of these suggestions of his here. i note that the one problem we had with foia focus is that we did once feature the hud foia officer who four years later pled guilty to forge supply in mortgage documents. >> not under indictment at the time we established it. >> exactly. if he was being investigated, it was not shared with us. all right. in 1984, dan suggested publishing guidance on political access to agency records under foia and personal records, and i agreed. due to the expansive growth of the short guide to the freedom of information act, the federal trade commission told us that it was false advertising to continue to call it the short guide, so in 1986, dan suggested it be called just the department of justice guide to the foia, and i agreed. in 1986, the legal education institute was no longer able to continue teaching these two days foia classes, so dan suggested oip h

find foia resources. when we were coming up with this idea, we thought, wouldn't it be great to have been easy to use template, a design template, with shareholder input or agencies to customize. -- for agencies to customize. wouldn't reading rooms be a great resource? it is pretty basic. wouldn't it be great to have contact information for designated foia professionals on every web page? sometimes, that is not easy to find. sometimes when you find contact information, there are no names to go with it. sometimes, there is just a general number. the standardization of websites would go a long way to making foia easier for the clusters and agencies. >> we have contact information that would make foia to be a contact sport. >> i am suggesting there would be greater communication. maybe not full contact, but better communication. we think it goes one way toward preventing [unintelligible]. finally, the last bit is training. there was a 2009 memo suggesting foia was everybody's responsibility. we would like to

some of the problems and challenges that foia still has. many of them i'm sure have been discussed in other panels today. that legislation has twice passed the senate unanimously, which is great. again, showing the bipartisan interest and support for open government. and of course we are hopeful that congress will enact that this congress. we've also been very busy as tom mentioned also with the whack-a-mole approach in terms of dealing particularly with a number of legislative exemptions to foia popping up pay couple of years ago senator leahy and senator cornyn partnered on another bill that helped shed light on these exemptions. for those of you familiar with legislative work you know that provisions get snuck into bills that have nothing to do with what the particular provision is about and sometimes it's very challenging to find out that they're had in there much less what they actually do. and that has been the case for many years with respect to new exemptions to foia. through the efforts of senator leahy and senator cornyn we've bee

according to that website, the fcc is denying more foia requests under this new fcc and in the bastard as a matter fact, significantly, greater percentage of denials compared to other government agencies. for example, in 2010 the fcc denied 48% of freedom of information act requests, while the rest of the government denied only 7.3%. that's pretty darn huge difference. let me also been to put it in perspective, some of that data in that website indicates the sec has started denying an unusually large percentage of freedom of information request because of this thing called not reasonably prescribed. under your watch, the fcc denied about 16.4% of foia requests based on records that were not quote reasonably described. but again not only is that a huge increase from previous fcc years, only 3% denial based on that, but much higher than even the cia. which i thought was a big deal. the cia denies 0.7% denial rate of the same year on that same issue. so why is the fcc all of a sudden have more secrets than the cia, when you're dealing with foia requests? >> i'm not familiar with those num

certainly we recognize our obligations under foia and we have a team of professionals to handle foia requests and understand their obligations to comply and meet their obligations under law. >> and, again, the reason -- that's why i wanted to mention that first, the reason i was taken that back is precisely because of the relationship i've had with you and my staff has had and we've been able to get information. but seems outside of me and congress and members of congress, it seems it might be different. if you look at those denied for not reasonably described, 16.4% for the fcc, the cia 0.7%. the nsa 0.5%. homeland security, 0.2%. there seems to be a problem there. and that's a huge increase. because just previously to that was about 3%. it was still higher than these other agencies. i'm sure there's a reason for it but there seems to be a huge increase of deniles of freedom of information act requests. because of the relationship i would like to spend time with you all and look at what's going on there. i think there's a serious issue there and i'm sure there's a good explanation b

we see that as a part of what we believe is and can be a culture change in the foia community in terms of, again, that expectation that things will be disclosed. we have a little bit of a tough

sense we are celebrating foia day today, i made a resolution, i have to find at least foia requested day. unfortunately, i have a client who i need to have him sign some papers before i can file the request, so it would be deemed to be filed today, although it actually won't be filed today. deemed is -- [inaudible] >> deemed is my favorite word i tell students. it's a meaning of let's pretend, as if it didn't happen but we will pretend it did happen. so when you see deemed in all these opinions you know it's not true but they're pretending it is for other reasons. there's an old saying that i'm from the irs and i'm here to help you. well, today we'll turn that around a little bit saying today is imfc long and i'm here to help the irs, the japan of justice and fbi and the dea and just about everybody else in the government. she's really here to help them. they have a quite figure that out yet, and she's really there to help them. but we all know that she is. of course, she's really there to help the american people understand what their government is all about, which is after all the

say they came a long way to clear out the bag log of request under the freedom of information act, foiaone from average citizens to reporters a chance to get hands on government document. it's driven by the profound national commitment to ensuring an open government. >> this is what drove the president on his first full day in office to call on the department of justice to guide other agencies in the faithful implementation of the freedom of information act. and to compliance with the letter and the spirit of the law. >> despite justice department testimony before the senate judiciary committee today, about a new level of openness and access, there were skeptics on both sides of the aisle, including republican senator chuck grassley who says he has a hard time resolving what he calls the promise of transparency and stories told by retired marine master sergeant jerry enswinger, whose young daughter died when he was living in camp lejeune and later discovered link between water there and childhood cancer but he has been stonewalled in repeated attempt from numerous administrations to get

since we are celebrating foia day today, i made a resolution on filing at least one foia request to make it a perfect day. unfortunately i have a client who i need to have him sign some papers before he can file a request so it will be deemed to be filed today although it actually won't be filed today. dean is my favorite word i tell the students. it's the meaning of let's pretend as it didn't really happen but we will pretend that it did happen so when you see dean's and all of these opinions you know it's really not true but they are pretending it is for other reasons. there is an old saying that i am from the irs and i'm here to help you. today we are going to turn that around a little bit. say today is i am sue long sue long and i'm here to help the irs, and the department of justice, and the fbi and the dea and just about everybody else in the government. she is merely here to help them. they haven't quite figured that out yet, that she is really there to help them but we all know that she is. of course, she is really there to help the american people understand what their governmen

made but not, no involvement in the decision itself which i think even the organization that made the foia request noted in its preample if you will. thanks very much. >> nas the white house press secretary jay carney taking questions from cbs's peter mayer. you can find the full white house briefing and all the events at the c-span network covers on our website, c-span.org. back in a minute with more "washington today." >> on march 26th, 27th and 28th the u.s. supreme court will hear oral arguments and challenges to the health care law. you'll hear an argument cited in several of the pending health care cases saturday on c-span radio's historic supreme court oral argument. from 1997, county sheriffs jay prince and richard mack, petitioners versus the united states, respondent. >> in the federal state context, this court has upheld laws passed under the spending power, the commerce power including the power to preempt state legislation and the article 6 duty of state judges to hear federal causes of action. the interim provisions the of the brady acts is not an exercise of any of those pow

is already publishing on its website logs for tracking and responding to and managing foia requests, so it's a little confusing combiven what chairman issa -- given what chairman issa and the grades that he issued relative to the f.c.c. and foia requests and the issues that i raised, and i think that perhaps the amendment may be redundant or simply not needed at all. so those are my observations and i yield back the balance of my time. the chair: the gentlelady from california yields back. the question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from oregon. those in favor say aye. those opposed, no. in the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it and the amendment is agreed to. it is now in order to consider amendment number 7 printed in house report 112-422. for what purpose does the gentleman from new york seek recognition? mr. owens: i rise in support of my amendment to h.r. 3309. the chair: the gentleman will suspend. does the gentleman have an amendment at the desk? mr. owens: yes. the chair: the clerk will designate the amendment. the clerk: amendment number 7 printed in house

now the ap has, through a foia request, come up with emails that contradicts that. do you know where the disconnect was? >> yes, the disconnect is in the reporting by the associated press, which is inaccurate. the emails confirm what we said at the time, which is that the white house had no involvement in the decision made regarding ms. sherrod's employment or her firing, but were made aware of the decision that had been made by the department of agriculture. >> so the white house -- >> there's nothing in those emails -- >> -- not in touch with the counsel at the agriculture department at the time? >> the issue is, was the white house involved in the decision made, and they were not. the white house was not. i was not in this position then, but we made clear at the time that there was discussion about the decision after it had been made, but not -- no involvement in the decision itself, which i think even the organization that made the foia request noted in its preamble, if you will. if you will.

the "new york times" would have foia requests. why did they make it public?ou hardly even hear anything about this story. on the story about the open mike what's interesting is you saw the contrast in terms of the coverage relative to president bush. the placement of this story, and also the context of the story. the context of the story is republicans jump on president obama's comments. so it's a process story about republicans playing politics as opposed to the substance what the president said which is pretty striking. megyn: why is it this way? because we have a left-leaning mainstream media? >> it's hard to explain if you expect fairness and you grow up in a family that demanded fairness. but one of the great things i learned from president bush, as a conservative, as a republican you have to try so much harder and you have to expect that the stories are -- it's not going to be fair. do you remember when president bush was in china and he tried to go out of the room and the door was locked? the next day on the front page of the "new york times" there wer

justice department officials pointed to the progress they have made, catching up on the backlog of foiatomating much of the system so that requests can be made and tracked online. but there are skeptics on both sides of the aisle. they're citing reports from republican congressman darrell issa and the house oversight committee. they say the administration and its appointees have actively blocked certain requests, something republican senator chuck grassley finds in conflict with the president's promises for transparency. >> i find it difficult if i measure what he said he wanted to do with what has actually materialized as either he didn't mean it or -- and be i think he did mean it -- and, number two, the people below him aren't carrying out his policies. >> reporter: some of the most emotional testimony this morning came from a retired marine who talk talked about the death of his young daughter from leukemia while he was serving at camp lejeune. he said that he's been blocked at every turn in his search to try to get some answers. jenna? jenna: what a story. shannon, thank you. jon:

reporters pressing foia actions against the secretive government agency or fighting subpoenas from localpolice and judges. there is even a 24 hour hotline when there is no time to spare. now this tireless commando squad was built at the committee's courageous early direct to your, jack landau and continue to grow and prosper under jack's successor, jean kirtley. for the past decade, it has been headed by a woman who is uniquely suited to this task because she is both a journalist and a lawyer. lucy dalglish's knowledge of media love is rich, but happily for us, she writes like a journalist and not a lawyer. her editorial from the committee's quarterly magazine, the news media and the law are a monolith we go with them and journalistic clarity. if our profession needed the reporters committee and 18 to be, and it certainly did, we needed even more today. to quote lucy dalglish, and these days the dwindling medical budget in traditional newsrooms and nonexistent legal budgets for all of their journalists, it is important that we teach journalist to be knowledgeable about their eighth and c

we call that the foia foyer. we call it that all year long.n the audience knows the we have handouts bloggers the many handouts including detailed biographical sketch on everyone who is speaking here today so you will find that the moderators including myself will not spend a lot of time -- details -- stenson time on that because we try to get as much, and and out during the day as possible. i am going to sit in on the first panel and introduce miriam nesmith and hopefully more and more people in the viewing audience -- i can say the new director -- office of government -- it has been in existence since september of 2009 so it has been 2-1/2 years. it either feels like ten years or four weeks. depending on one day to the next with in the office of government freedom of information services. miriam is someone who came back from paris to her husband's dismay to accept the senior executive service position as -- [talking over each other] >> i am not implying a break up. had u-turn that job down, and allowed him to stay in paris, france in the nea

in the book, i have one of the invitations we obtained through foia. i always think it is important for people to read this information themselves. what you see on the invitation is that the menu included pork. [laughter] i am not sure how the lunch went. my husband is a west point graduate. he was so incensed about this line. he said, there are people who will soar in the military for 20 years and they will never have the chance to have lunch in the executive dining room at the pentagon. there was a question that always bothered the 9/11 investigators. they always wondered why it was that khalid sheikh mohammed would send two of his most important hijackers to southern california, but to san diego in the early 2000's. these two hijackers were extremely important to the plot. they were the advance team. they were the beach head. they were battle trains jihadists. they had never been to the united states before. they spoke virtually no english. the 9/11 investigators believed there had to be someone here to meet them. they long suspected that someone wa

. >> you're looking at perhaps lower foia. i'm wondering does the justice department have a role here? i tell people, hey, it's a law. freedom of information agent is a law. we have to have people to carry out that law, but i don't really account for much in the air force, and so should the department of justice, perhaps, be telling defense department and other agencies you have to preserve these people because they are there to carry out a law. >> well, i think there's some difficulty with justice telling other agencies how they should allocate their money. i remember going back quite a while ago when the head foia person at dod going back into the, oh, wow, probably the 1980s said, i don't mind being told to do more than less, it's just that i don't like when i'm told to do it faster as well, and that's the sort of problem, i think, that a lot of us have. sometimes we can get from automation -- we have our -- we are able to increase the speed and improve things a little with that, but i realize automation costs money as well