but ginni thomas -- they just the fight to let her go because she is the wife of clarence thomas, and thomas, he is the conservative hero they want on the court. there is -- they don't say anything about, this this is insane. this woman is insane. some of the -- we are not just talking about contracting 29 lawmakers, and trying to convince them to overturn government. she believed there were camps and flights on the way to -- four people. these are out there conspiracy theories that are dangers, that are unhinged completely unhinged. i think it was christopher hitches who said conspiracy theories are the exhaustive views of democracy. he might be right. >> yeah, i think i agree with him, i don't agree with him on a lot of, things but i agree with him on that one. >> me neither. >> norm, why hasn't congress in your opinion fast tracked legislation to impose any kind of additional ethics rules on supreme court justices. i mean, it seems like a common sense approach to just try and at the very least to protect that institution. >> i've been a part of -- four years that have been trying t

ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas says that she is willing to meet with the house select committee investigating the capitol attack. the request for her interview comes after the committee says they have emails between ginni thomas and former trump attorney john eastman. eastman, of course, the architect of the delusional, unconstitutional theory that vice president pence could single handlely have overturned the election. while the contents of the emails between the two have not been revealed, eastman in emails to a different trump lawyer, according to "the new york times," seemed to have insight and knowledge that supreme court justices were in a, quote, heated fight over a possible 2020 election case. so how would he have known that? and how is ginni thomas tied up in all of this? thomas suggested to the daily caller that this is all just a misunderstanding and she cannot wait to clear it all up. meantime, there is another problem facing the committee. sources are telling cnn the panel is striking out in their efforts to get two witnesses to testify in

i don't think there's anything based on what ginni thomas has said that causes justice thomas to havet on the court in any cases involving january 6th. yeah, it's premature. >> jeff, you heard jamie's reporting about eastman pleading the fifth. what kind of criminal ability, if any, could eastman face here? why would he be pleading the fifth? >> well, several of the rioters, the january 6th rioters, have been prosecuted and pleaded guilty to the crime of obstruction of the work of congress. and that is potentially what he could be charged with. that's what the judge in the subpoena case suggested that he was involved with. i don't know if he did or not. there's a lot of evidence about him. the justice department should have access to all that evidence. but, i mean, there's a reason why eric hershmann, who is hardly a democrat. he's a very prominent republican lawyer, defended president trump in impeachment -- why he said to eastman, you need a criminal defense lawyer. that's because he needs a criminal defense lawyer. >> professor yu, there's this back and forth about whether the sele

obviously she feels like she has nothing to hide. >> well, when we come back, what ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas is now saying about the prospect of meeting with the select committee. >> what do you mean? >> she apparently was for it before she was against it. >> but she said she wanted to testify. she had nothing to hide. i'm so confused. she had nothing to hide. i'm so confused. every search you make, every click you take, every move you make, every step you take, i'll be watching you. the internet doesn't have to be duckduckgo is a free all in one privacy app with a built in search engine, web browser, one click data clearing and more stop companies like google from watching you, by downloading the app today. duckduckgo: privacy, simplified. >>> a lawyer for ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas, is throwing cold water on the prospect of a voluntary interview with the house select committee. he expresses serious concerns about any interview congressional investigators would conduct with her. the attorney notes this has bee

melissa, it's not just ginni thomas or clarence thomas. john eastman knows clarence thomas, now through ginni. he clerked for him. is there any chance the supreme court is going to respond to this reporting? >> again, this doesn't look great for the court. and i want to just emphasize, we don't know what mrs. thomas 's involvement is. we don't know if it reaches a level of criminal liability. again, we don't know how enmeshed they are enmeshsed work of justice thomas and his wife actually is. but it doesn't matter. any lawyer will tell you, the perfect question of professional excellence isn't a question of what actually happened. but what does it look like happened? one of the optics of this? the optics of this are quite poor. it seems every other day we are hearing about a new raft of text messages that ms. thomas has sent in an effort to overturn the election. if this were a drinking game, i would be passed out on the floor every time i heard about one of mrs. thomas's tests. so, this is not great for the justice. it's not great for the

(music throughout) >>> earlier in the broadcast we were discussing ginni thomas, the wife of clarenceommittee chair says they now want her to appear before the panel. she told a conservative publication that she's open to the idea and, quote, can't wait to clear up misconceptions. thomas is of interest in large part as her correspondence as one of the former president's top advisers. randi kaye has more. >> clarence thomas, you're the best man walking the face of the earth. >> reporter: ginni thomas has some explaining to do, like, what about those emails she exchanged with conservative attorney john eastman, who the house january 6th committee says helped devise a scheme. it's unclear what ginni thomas said to eastman in the emails or if she will appear before the committee to try to explain any of it. the committee is also investigating more than two dozen text messages ginni thomas sent just days after biden's victory to mark meadows, who was donald trump's chief of staff. >> the second reagan revolution is growing. >> in one text from november of 2020, ginni thomas wrote to meadow

ginni thomas, in the campaign with arizona, ginni thomas talking to mark meadows, ginni thomas talking to eastman. i don't think it has anything to do anymore with justice thomas, and in any event, she won't be forthcoming about those conversations. but they want to know about her in her own right, and also that she can get them information, especially about eastman and meadows and the overall efforts, including but they are going to turn to tuesday about the pressure campaign on the states. >> harry, does this mean the clarence thomas has to recuse himself of any kind of issues related to what has come before the supreme court? >> hasse too is always in quotes, because he decides for himself, and it is under the standard of would a reasonable person think that he couldn't be impartial. they have been, as we have just heard, she has been a cultural warrior sort of picture on the right. he has been with her too. but i don't think we will see him recusing from anything having to do with january 6th. and his reasoning will be, i can still be fair, and nobody could take issue. unless there

and it's really interesting when you see texas just like that when you have ginni thomas, the wife of clarence thomas, chief of staff of louis gohmert to mark meadows, people very close, right on the cusp of all three branches of the government involved. and that's what are called attention to the committee, and that was a while ago. so was very glad to see that they sent a letter to ginni thomas after all the things that we saw today. >> okay, but why now? to your point, we've known this for a while. it's old news, what is it about her exchange with eastman that got the committee to? act >> i think it's because you also saw the 29 emails -- from the legislator she reached out to, which is a coincidence -- 29 -- now you see emails directly with eastman. i do issue is a little bit earlier that they had sent a letter to ginni thomas. but they are doing the right thing now. i think what's important about this is, as we look at it, is that there is a pattern of an individual who has that type of access, who is close to a supreme court justice that is going to all levels of the sort of con

ginni thomas did not respond to cnn's request for comment, and eastman's attorney declined to commentce thomas 2004 biography, ginni thomas was born virginia lamp and raised in omaha, nebraska. her father reportedly was an engineer, and her mother was an outspoken republican activists who played a prominent part in her daughter's life. according to the new york times, she joined her high school republican club in 1974. later at creighton university in omaha, she learned a lot of green move to washington to work as an aide for than congressman -- a conservative from the basket. she reportedly met clarence thomas in 1986, at a conference on affirmative action. they married in 1987. >> it was on my desk, don't make fun of your wife's choices, you are one of them. >> i clarence thomas -- >> in 1991, in the washington post, of friend described the couple as intellectual soulmates. the new york times reported clarence thomas described her as a gift from god. randi kaye, cnn, palm beach, county florida. we >> are learning more about what authorities say was an assassination -- and about the

you talked to bennie thompson about getting ginni thomas to talk about her emails. let me play part of your interview. >> look, we have sent miss thomas a letter asking her to come and talk to the committee. >> you sent it? you have sent it already? >> listen to me. what you said, if she responded while the hearing was going on, that she wants to come, we look forward to her coming. >> there was some disagreement, wasn't there, on the committee as to whether to try to get mrs. thomas to come in? it would be unprecedented. >> that's exactly right. her role in this is such a fascinating one. it's at the nexus of what should be a non-political supreme court and efforts within donald trump's orbit to overturn the election results. as they were detailing what was happening with john eastman, of course, ginni thomas' connection to him as well as mark meadows is going to be of interest. what happened yesterday as the hearings were ongoing was the fact that the committee members publically got in line saying that they thought that it was time to hear from ginni thomas, beca

but you have eastman, who we know is in contact with ginni thomas. arence thomas. does this speak not just potentially to the case the committee is trying to build but also what's going on in terms of how much, i guess, is getting out there on private discussions held among supreme court justices? >> yes. here is where a conversation with ginni thomas could be essential. it's different -- the committee's mission is different from a criminal prosecution. here where the goal is to identify all the facts that happened and put them out there in the interest of transparency and documenting history, there's a suggestion from what you just read that there's a leak at the supreme court. one possibility of how john eastman got information about what was going on at the supreme court is linked by ginni thomas, a person we know they are talking to. or is it that eastman is talking to his former boss himself? these are legitimate questions. the reason we need to know is to determine whether clarence thomas is fit to serve and decide these cases. we know he declin

. >> and on that note, the january 6th committee has now sent ginni thomas a ladder, asking her to comeel. regarding that new reporting that she exchanged emails with john eastman, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas told the daily caller this, i can't wait to clear up misconceptions. so let's welcome, former republican congressman from virginia. it was also an adviser to the january 6th committee, and want to make a quick side note, ginni thomas, if you are watching, you're welcome to join me any night of the week. and we can clear up those misconceptions. i'm so glad you are here tonight. you are a committee insider. you have said before the text messages you've seen from mark meadows, were so horrible, that they made to walk away from your computer. what can you tell us about her communication? >> yeah, i mean, at the beginning of that i was fortunate to be a senior technical adviser, stephanie. and you probably know this. one of the first to see the desks linked with a name. it was up to us to validate those text messages. i figured the five words that showed me the mo

the committee also wants to talk to ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas about her communications with trump attorney john eastman. eastman devised the scheme to pressure then vice president mike pence to block the certification of biden's 2020 electoral win. >> the teller is verified. appears to be regular in form and authentic. >> reporter: something pence ultimately refused to do. >> we have sent ms. thomas a letter asking us to come and talk to the committee. >> we look forward to her coming. >> reporter: ginni thomas issued a short response to the committee via the conservative publication "daily caller," saying she can't wait to clear up misconceptions. "i look forward to talking to them." eastman denied. eastman writing we have never engaged in such discussions, would not engage in such discussions and did not do so in december 2020 or any time else. why the committee has requested cooperation for outstanding witnesses, it has so far refused to share full transcripts with the justice department. but the committee said it will not be an obstacle to justice

and that, to me, is why ginni thomas is significant. she can do what she wants, the issue is her husband's ethical obligations as a judge. >> two election-related cases, two he did not recuse himself of. jeffrey toobin, errol louis, thank you, have a great weekend, both of you. >>> developing this hour, russian president vladimir putin is speaking out on ukraine and the european union. his speech at the international economic conference was pushed back due to, quote, massive cyberattacks. we'll take you live to st. petersburg for the latest. >>> turning regular trucks into war ready vehicles. this is a fascinating story. these two ukrainians volunteering on their own time, in their own way to help their countries fight against russia. >>> the committee investigating the tragedy, the mass shooting at robb elementary school, visiting the site where 21 lives were taken. we look at who is expected to testify ahead of today's hearing. mom's a kayak denier, so please don't bring it up. bring what up, kayak? exexcuse me? do the research, todd.

policies, itself regulates, it monitors its own business, and now you have this big ugly car crash of ginni thomasnterest issues. it has to be addressed, but i don't think he will it push comes to shove. >> latosha your thoughts on this, i want you to weigh in. what does this mean for our faith in the judiciary elections, for the wife of a supreme court justice working to overturn a presidential election? she is actively out there emailing, working, allegedly conspiring to overturn the election. >> i thought you were generous when you said three degrees of separation. it is actually one degree of separation. [laughs] eastman used to be a law clerk for judge thomas. this is extremely connected. even in the ruling he made that he dissented, the bottom line is that he could have recused himself, but he did not. aside from that, if you look at even what ginni thomas said, in one of the emails of the 21 that she sent, in one, that she sent to meadows, she said that they needed to make a plan and released crack in, because it takes time for the army who is gathering for his men. well army? is she speaki

involving ginny thomas. m who reportedly pushed to try to overturn the results of the legitimate 2020 election. wife of claurt clarence thomas and self-identified cult member tournament anti-cult activist, question mark. that piece of the story starts in the time of jazzercize and duran duran in the '80s. ginny thomas you see her in 1986 on the screen, realized her involvement with lifespring was problematic. lifespring, remember, advertised training seminars to help participants unlock almost superhuman potential. then she was apparently deprogrammed, a controversial way to unlearn when she picked up at lifespring. she became an anti-cult crusader, helping out with workshops for congressional staffers to fight groups. with that background, people who knew her back then are scratching their heads now telling us they don't get how thomas reconciles that past with some beliefs she has with qanon today. nbc news reached out to ginny thomas and justice clarence thomas. neither responded. the reporter among the by

and once again, ginni thomas is at the center. that the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas pressed arizona lawmakers to help overturn -- quote, stand strong in the face of political and media pressure and claim that the responsibility to choose was quote, yours and yours alone. -- the washington reached out for comment and did not hear back from either ginni thomas or the spokesperson for the supreme court. nbc news has not seen or verified these emails as of yet. with me now to discuss this, republican strategist susan del percio. susan we appreciate you being here. first i just want to get your reaction to this report. >> i wish i could say it's shocking and surprising. it's not. we know that ginni thomas has been an activist for quite some time. the length of people would go to disrupt and overturn the selection, on behalf of donald trump, we learn more every day. here is the tricky part about this aaron. ginni thomas is allowed to pursue her political views and causes. well i tremendously disagree with that, as long

. >> the -- ginni thomas, the times and the post reporting emails again between ginni thomas, some with john eastman, we have known previous reporting, ginni thomas, the way of supreme court justice clarence thomas. at this point can you explain to the american people why you haven't issued a subpoena to talk to her? >> no, unfortunately i can't talk about specific witnesses like that, but i will tell you that we are determined to reveal all of the facts of the plot to overthrow the election, and, you know, we're not showing any favor or any prejudice towards any particular witness. if people were involved, we are approaching them and we are hopeful they will cooperate the way the vast majority of wi witnesses had. we had over a thousand people who have come to interact with us, and we're hoping that everybody who has information will come and share it. >> you talked about judge luttig's testimony later today. you say he -- we reported before that he told vice president mike pence that what was being asked of him was unconstitutional. do you know whether luttig's information got to the

this idea that clarence thomas and ginni thomas, we know her conversations and justice thomas does not democratic lawmakers with calls to resign. alexandra acosta cortez of new york, and betty mccallum of minnesota. why aren't more calling for this. it is about a smoking gun as you get, and frankly what you see in this particular shoe? i call on clarence thomas to be center sometime ago, which i think is something -- it didn't garner any jerome's from the rest of the caucus or leadership. but i think this may be more of an melbourne show response but it's a slight on the family stone. it's a family affair. and there's no question that they are in this together, that their whole lives are intertwined and they're intertwined in all the politics on the policies. and they have gone, clarence thomas is allowed to breach would've it an ethical barrier. so i'd be fine if he resigned, that be great. he's not going to resign. that's just not going to happen. >> so i went to the supreme court yesterday, congressman, or at least let me be clear, i try to go to the supreme court yesterday. high fe

the committee also wants to talk to ginni thomas, the wife of clarence thomas about her communications with john eastman. eastman deviced the steam skooem to pressure mike pence to block the certification of the electoral win. >> appears to be regular in form and authentic. >> reporter: something pence ultimately refused to do. >> we have sent ms. thomas a letter, asking us to come and talk to the committee. >> we look forward to her coming. >> reporter: ginni thomas issued a short response to the committee via the conservative publication "the daily caller" saying she can't wait to clear up misconceptions. i look forward talking to them. eastman denied he ever discussed that might become the supreme court. eastman writing we have never engaged in such discussions, would not engage in such discussion, and would not do so in december 2020 or any time else. it has so far refused to share full transcripts with all of its interviews with the justice department. but the committee said it will not be an obstacle to justice department prosecutions. >> we're not going to stop what we're doing

ginni thomas' name started twirling when "the washington post" disclosed these 29 texts between ginnif the election up to january 6. and in these text messages she was very clear and very force until in saying she believed the election should be overturned, that they should go after the election fraud claims that they needed to stop the left from doing what they were doing. she has the right to say these things, freedom of speech. we get to have our own political views, and she's been a very open, conservative activist for a long time. but the concern raised in the fact her husband, clarence thomas, is a sitting u.s. supreme court justice and during the short time that she was writing these texts he sat on two cases that involved the supreme court and these actual issues on the election. one was where the january 6th committee was asking the supreme court if they could have access to donald trump's white house documents. the entire supreme court said, yes, you need this for your investigation, except for one dissenting vote, clarence thomas. there was another case asking the supreme c

, for the committee, they're crossing into a line, they're getting some facts, hopefully, from ginni thomas. but now they're starting to investigate a person who's ultimately direcy related to another branch of government. and what a mess it will be. because clarence thomas is in a situation where he can't rule on anything involving january 6 from here on out. his wife has been called to testify about her actions promoting what happened on january 6. potentially. and i want to know the facts. but i'm concerned for where this ultimately leads. and i think that there are members of congress that are wondering the same. how does congress now while investigating the executive branch begin to investigate an arm. supreme court. yamiche: yeah. the judicial branch. scott, you're shaking your head here and i want you to jump in. because i'm really also interested in the fact that the d.o.j. is asking the committee for all their transcripts and there's all this talk back and forth of whether or not there might be criminal referrals. what are you learning when you talk to lawmakers about when the tens

so last block, joe talked about the emails ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomasnt to lawyer john eastman. well, "the new york times" is reporting on another email exchange, this one from eastman to another pro-trump lawyer. while discussing efforts to get the supreme court to hear an election case from wisconsin, eastman reportedly wrote to another pro-trump lawyer, quote, so the odds are not based on the legal merits but an assessment of the justices' spines, and i understand there is a heated fight under way. the pro-trump attorney, replied, the justices may fear there will be wild chaos on january 6th, unless they rule by then, either way. the exchange took place on december 24th, five days after trump tweeted for his followers to come to the capitol on january 6th, posting, quote, will be wild. i mean, joe, it's really what they're putting together, by the way, is fascinating. this ginni thomas angle is so troubling to me. i know that, you know, a wife and a husband can have two separate careers and lives, but she's married to a supreme court justice. the typ

ginni thomas was disgusted by that. and after the certification of the electoral vote by the congress on january 6th, virginia thomas wrote to mark meadows, we are living through wet feels like the end of america. now surely, surely clarence thomas knew how his wife felt after joe biden's election became finally, officially certified by congress on january 6th. surely, virginia thomas did not share her most intimate feelings about the election only with mark meadows. surely, she told her husband that we are living through what feels like the end of america. and still, clarence thomas did not recuse himself from the mark meadows documents case that potentially involved his wife's own communications. tonight, what's the wife of a supreme court to justice in need of a great criminal defense lawyer, we are living through what feels like the end of the supreme court as we know it. today, marc short, who served as vice president mike pence's chief of staff, said that mike pence knew from the beginning that he had absolutely no

we talked about ginni thomas. we have other people who, you're right, think it'd be cool if they could just shred the constitution and stay in power. >> i mean, that's explicitly what the president said, "wouldn't it be cool if you could take the unilateral power to overturn the will of the people and reverse a presidential election?" >>> ginni thomas, a conserative activist and the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas, saying she is willing to testify in front of the january 6th committee. thomas said, quote, i can't wait to clear up misconceptions. i look forward to talking to them. the committee is looking to talk with thomas about emails exchanged with lawyer john eastman. here is committee chair, congressman bennie thompson, responding to the news yesterday. >> well, look, we have sent ms. thomas a letter, asking us to come and talk to the committee. what you -- >> sent it already? >> listen to me. what you said, if she responded while the hearing was going on, that she wants to come, we look forward

the question of whether ginni thomas is going to testify. earlier this, week she said she was eager to speak with the committee to quote clear any misconceptions. what do we know about any possible testimony from her? when in fact that could happen? and any advice she is getting? >> ginni thomas really didn't offer any clarity on what those misconceptions could be, after tailing the daily caller she was eager to speak with the committee, and the feeling is mutual. we heard from chan chairman -- they had given a letter to her asking for her cooperation. -- the committee may want to do this sooner rather than later while they still have such a large platform while they're doing these public hearings. if there is some sort of revelation that they want to present to the american public from ginni thomas. they're likely to ask her how involved she was with john eastman, the former trump lawyer, that we saw the committee lay out some damning evidence during thursday's hearing. while her involvement was with him? what sort of involvement that she h

thomaswell the ginni thomas stos interesting. but, it's really a sideshow. it's an important sideshow in a sense that if her husband, justice clarence thomas, had his way, we wouldn't really know about all of the conversations between them ginni thomas and this weirdo, john eastman. john eastman would have not come to the surface in connection with her. and therefore, we wouldn't have known the full extent of the conspiracy. the reason that is true, is that the code voided 8 to 1. with the one being justice thomas descending. that the national archives had to release all sorts of information that included information about the justice's wife. so in other things, he was violating the federal statute that requires all justices and judges to not take part in proceedings in which their spouse is involved, but it is a sideshow if you ask, what do we really learn? what we learned is how the pieces fit together. we learned that all of the talk about a stolen election, was just hot air. nobody could find any evidence of it. the president kept claiming that there was

has the commute committee heard from ginni thomas it?ow whether we've heard directly, as opposed through the daily caller, as you point out. but i'm glad that she has responded favorably. we would like to hear what she has to say. we have many questions to ask, and we wish that, frankly, all witnesses with relevant information would take the same attitude and come in and share with us what they know. indeed, the whole situation of representative loudermilk, showing on that video, giving tours, it might have been avoided if except and come in and testified. >> one point john eastman said that he believed glenn's thomas would vote on the supreme court to support the vice president rejecting electoral college votes. do you have any indication that eastman got that information from ginni thomas? >> you know, i really can't go into the facts, until we have a chance to discuss those during whatever hearings, if that becomes a subject in one of our hearings. you know, i will say, as i have in the past, lawrence, that the idea that a supreme cou

as we say, was close for years, remain close with ginni thomas. ave seen through her e-mails that are very much in contention now. that's what led thomas and liz to say now they do want to talk to her. they didn't say they wanted to talk to her when talking to mark meadows, political wing of the white house but now talking to legal wing and getting into the heart of the conspiracy, now they want to talk to her. >> it makes sense they would want to talk to her. first with respect to mr. eastman. he's well credentials but that doesn't make him smart or capable. being a really bad lawyer is not a crime. something for which i'm grateful every single day. being a really bad lawyer who intended to thwart congress in its counting of the electoral vote is crime. that's something that katy tur said at top of the hour. was was intended by john eastman and all of these actors in plot to over throw the government. we need more than just the fact that john eastman gave really bad advice and the fact that the judge, very well respected jurist, someone in front o

but it's still unknown whether or not they're actually going to name drop ginni thomas as we saw in the letter that they sent to ginni last week from the committee asking her to come in to provide an interview that they made clear she is not the focus of their investigation, but essential to trying to understand the full scope of what was actually going on in the months leading up to january 6th. >> senator, what are you going to be looking at at tomorrow's hearings? >> there's a couple of things i think are going to be very important. remember, this committee is doing a pretty remarkable job of connecting the dots. they're buildings the case as a trial lawyer would build a case in front of them and telling a story. i think the state effort -- the effort to undermine the state is very critical. we've already heard testimony regard bogus effort try to get mike pence to overturn the election. we've heard jeffrey clark trying to do things, get things sent back. now we're going to find out why they were so anxious in washington, d.c., and in the white house to do that. it's because people l

supreme court justices wives is exactly zero in its entire history, right up until this year, with ginni thomas's involvement in this insurrection. and she herself specifically

we have a conversation with ginni thomas. she refused to accept the legitimacy of the 2020 presidential election. why, because she didn't like the outcome. and so instead, she tried to steal the election, overthrow the united states government, and then install a tyrant. that is bullying. we now, the house select committee has -- requested ginni thomas's testimony, after the committee revealed she disclosed more than previously disclosed. this thomas has signaled that she is open to testifying. can you imagine her husband being among the next invited to do so? >> hi reverend. it's good to be with. you happy juneteenth weekend. i think the january 6th committee is taking everything step-by-step. they're doing a great job under the leadership of been a thompson. -- to oversee overthrow the u.s. government and steal the election and keep donald trump in office and try to transition in from the president into a tyrant. now, the emails clearly connect ginni thomas with john eastman and so i'm thankful that the committee is taken a

we now know contained text messages between ginni thomas and mark meadows.o, to the extent he was trying to conceal information, it might have been embarrassing to a member of his household, his wife, i think at least an apparent conflict of interest, if not a genuine one. and so, i think in hearings to come, there's going to be some real scrutiny about whether clarence thomas ott to be recusing himself from some of these decisions. >> peter, pivoting to the president, to this white house, you saw that inflation numbers today. the dow closed down nearly 3%. , how is the white house reacting? >> i think they're a little bit, you know, surprised by this. we had hoped that inflation they have begun to peak, and could be trailing downward. that's not the case as of this month. it may turn out that it will be, later but at the moment, it is not. it's going up. and you saw that impact on the markets, and you see the impact on the politics. we can talk a lot about january 6th, certainly an important episode. arguably, one of the most important things that has happe

when we come back the committee said it is finally time to hear from ginni thomas, wife of supreme courte thomas. if she refuses can it escalate with a subpoena. mike pence was praised by many for resisting the pressure of a coup by the ex president. while others said he should have shown that courage in person to the committee and before as he gears up for a 2024 run. can he continue to toe the line of trumpism among those in his party and will democrats let him get away with it? we'll talk politics straight ahead. later in the program the wild gop primary that is this michigan governor's race, the top-polling candidate is in court for his role in the insurrection and how the big lie is ending politics in her state. all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues. don't go anywhere. : white house" continues. don't go anywhere. ws of bipolarn can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is wher

but the committee clearly has a whole long list of questions they need to ask ginny thomas. she was at the january 6th rally, she said she left before the violence started. she was texting with mark meadows and emailing with john eastman, interacting with legislators in arizona. she has her hand in a whole bunch of things. if the committee is serious about talking to her, they can subpoena here. if she's willing to go in voluntarily and answer questions, good on her. >> we'll see. thank you. >>> joining me, olivia troy, a former homeland security counterterrorism and covid task force adviser to vice president pence and cnn commentator scott jennings who served as assistant to president george w. bush. good to have you both. going into the most recent hearing this was a competing voices narrative that former president trump had in one ear all of the officials, members of his team who we heard who said that this plan was illegal, but on the other side he had eastman saying he could do it. now we know that even, according to mark short, eastman acknowledged that it was a violat

, as she put it, but they were on parallel tracks at the same time, just as ginni thomas was involvedgal team, her husband, clarence thomas, was standing out among the nine justices for someone who wanted to emphasize some of the trump-backed theories about election fraud, about problems with mail-in ballots. he alone dissented in a particular -- he wrote by himself in this one pennsylvania case in february of 2021 emphasizing the problems with election fraud. you know, some flames that have really been rejected by experts as baseless, but he highlights the erosion of public confidence in the polls just kind of echoing where the trump team was at. he was also, as you probably remember, victor, the only justice who publicly dissented earlier this year when the supreme court allowed the january 6th committee to obtain trump white house documents from the national archives. so he set himself apart from the other justices just on these particular issues that his wife has been involved in. but i do want to stress that she has -- she said yesterday after the committee said that it would be

he is the sort of person that would have met ginni thomas, would have known her for many years, he would know justice thomas but we can say now that they were in touch. >> very interesting. kaitlan, thank you so much for the reporting. >>> let's bring in cnn's senior legal analyst ellie honing and laura jarrett attorney at law and co-anchor of "early start." this new reporting raises a whole bunch of new questions. i do want to start with this email from kenneth chess brow a pro dump lawyer who wrote to john eastman, odds of action by the supreme court before january 6 will become more favorable if the justices start to fear that there will be wild chaos on january 6 unless they rule by then, either way. it seems to discuss the strategic value of the idea of violence on january 6 weeks before it happens. >> this is such a crucial link that we were wondering whether we would see when we went into these hearings. this is the first piece of tangible evidence showing that people around donald trump, advising donald trump suspected there might be violence. not necessarily wanted it to happen

the "times" story does not say, and i want to make that clear, that ginni thomas told him about whatas going on behind the scenes at the supreme court, but it certainly raises that possibility and it certainly cries out for the committee to interview ginni thomas. i mean, one of the things that they have not done so far, very intentionally, is they have not reached out to her, but when you see the scope of her involvement now and this apparent inside information that eastman has, and maybe he was just blowing smoke, maybe he didn't know really what was going on, but in light of the communication between them it certainly raises the question of what ginni thomas was telling eastman as they moved this effort forward. >> and then, jeffrey, the other lawyer involved here, the other pro trump lawyer kenneth chesbro talking about the idea, the notion of violence that could happen on january 6th, a week before it does. in a way discussing the strategic value of that violence. what are the implications there? >> you know, this is just very bizarre for me because ken chesbro was my law school

. ♪ >>> the january 6th committee sending an official request to ginnie thomas asked her to speak withg of the 2020 election. it appears justice thomas is open to the idea. tom foreman has the latest now. tom, what is the committee hoping to learn. >> hey, don. a source familiar with the testimony confirmed to cnn the january 6th committee has e-mailed between ginnie thomas and john eastman who took the fifth 100 times. he is the conservative lawyer who argued that vice president mike pence could just throw out the electorates chosen by voters and let republican lawmakers in key position award those votes instead to trump. we don't know a lot about the content of these e-mails, but "the washington post" sources say the notes show that thomas' efforts to overturn the election were more extensive than previously known. now, that's saying something because the committee has 29 text messages between ginnie thomas and white house chief of staff mark meadows after his boss lost. for example, she lost help this great president stand firm. the majority knows biden and the left is attempting th

thomas. >> some information refers to ginni thomas. at some point, invite her to come talk to the committee. >> later he added the committee has sent a letter to mrs. thomas. thomas who speaks only with right wing media organizations told the "daily caller" she can't wait to clear up misconceptions. i'm going to start with you, jill. three of the emails that were sent to mark meadows by ginni thomas. the majority knows biden and the left are attempting the greatest coup in history. it takes time for the army who is gathering for his back and a third, can't see americans swallowing the obvious fraud just going with one more thing and the with no frickin consequences. we can't continue the gop charade. if you had virginia thomas in front of you on this committee, what would you want to ask her? >> i would want to ask her all the questions about her full role, not just these emails to eastman, not just her emails and texts to mark meadows, but i want to know more about her planning possibilities. did she participate in planning this? she

. >> what's the latest on ginni thomas? >> we thought that she was going to go before the committee. she had seemed to say in an interview that she was open and looking forward to clearing up some of the confusion around the role that she may have allegedly played in talking with potentially talking with false slates of electors, and john eastman. her lawyer is back to the committee saying that they need more information about where ginni thomas fits in in relation to their legislative purpose as a committee. and that piece of -- that turn of phrase, i think, is really important here because the legislative purpose line is something we have heard from conservatives who don't want to go before this committee many times before. it might not strike anyone as something that's combative in any way, but to me, that's them saying we don't know why they would want to have ginni thomas here, though, of course, we who have been following along with this know very well why they might want to talk to ginni thomas, and why she's someone

reporting tonight the january six committee has obtained e-mail correspondence between virginia "ginny" thomasfe of supreme court justice clarence thomas, and lawyer john eastman, who played a key role in efforts to pressure vice president mike pence to block the certification of joe biden's victory. >> seth: the spouse of a sitting supreme court justice was apparently in direct communication with the key figure in the planning of a coup that seems like a pretty clear conflict of interest it's like if i found out my parents were doing this year's thanksgiving show with james corden good luck, james good luck, buddy i hope you're fully stocked on gray goose [ laughter ] i'm not saying justices spouses should always come into play or be scrutinized, but in this case, it seems pretty clear. i mean, ginni thomas also reportedly pressured arizona lawmakers to overturn their state's results and texted trump's chief of staff, mark meadows, about a bunch of truly insane election fraud conspiracy theories. how can the supreme court just ignore that? in fact, the texts to meadows in particular are truly

that if ginni thomas want to overturn the election based on deranged conspiracy theories she was readingdidn't? >> i really don't understand how we can believe the texts of the emails we are reading, where she is pressuring meadows and not believe that she was pressuring her husband and the fact that mr. eastman thought there could be possibly two, maybe including her husband, that that information was uncommon from her. >> yeah, those text to meadows, if you put them alongside her emails to arizona lawmakers, it's all very disturbing. you've called for clarence thomas -- who didn't mention any of this when he was judging on relevant cases, didn't recuse himself -- you've called for him to be impeached. your congressman colleague, bill kass girl, called for him to resign. why is it taking -- to resign on the thomas's? >> they need to be. and the fact that january six committee is thinking about calling her in, to be interviewed, it's a start. the seriousness and the danger that ms. thompson poses to our democracy and our republic cannot be overstated. and her husband has a huge role. and