and jamie gangel is back with me. and, jamie, you just heard director mccabe say our legal system isn't based on he did it too. but our political system often is. and the fact that the two is apples and oranges, that's not always what matters. you've got the new speaker of the house, speaker mccarthy and the new house oversight committee, chairman comer, both jumping on this already, criticizing biden. trump is posting on his social media website, when is the fbi going to raid the many homes of joe biden? so here you go. this is the political -- this is how this is going to play politically. how much of a gift is this? how transformational is this for trump right now? >> okay. it is a huge political gift for trump. i'm surprised it took him so long to post what he did. and this is sort of like casablanca, we're shocked, shocked, shocked that the republicans are making political hay out of it. that said, they are going, on the one hand, to make as much out of this as they can, but it's going to be very important for ju

and now, of course, through jamie gangel's reporting. and as she was saying, someone simply can go over to the archives and look at this. but i think in the context of this, as i've been talking to many people and former presidencies, the offices of the former presidents and vice presidents, vice presidential material is handled in a very different way. the presidential records act really purchase tains to the president. but the vice president's staff largely is left on its own in some respects. so yes, the classified material was being taken out for months, but it seems like a few random papers were sort of caught up in the mix as he was in a flurry, a whirlwind of activity in the final week of his vice presidency. so he is saying he was surprised by the finding of it, and he doesn't know. but that's not necessarily the fact that people don't know the topics, the general topics of these memos. >> and jamie, we're learning that the doj has started interviewing some of president biden's former aides as part of the investigation. anything

joining me now, cnn special correspondent jamie gangel.cabe, and legal analyst, elliott williams. i'm glad you are all here. i bet we have similar questions as to who, what, when, who knew what when y. that and the segment today, thank you for watching cnn -- no, but seriously, i'm trying to wrap my mind around what has come in over the next 24 hours. even the statement in mexico city. there were 40 boxes that were handed over in an abundance of caution from the first batch that we learned about. it doesn't necessarily add up, but the ten classified documents are not at whatever level they were. but are these new batches, is this from a different location or is that part of those boxes that were handed over? >> a different location, and let's just call it an undisclosed location at the moment. the first location was his office, part of the biden pen center that had been sitting there for several years. these boxes were locked up. my understanding is 99% of what was in that office was personal. it included things like the burial arrangement

jamie gangel is back with us now. mie, these allegations, tell me what they are. >> so as you described it, this is a republican strategist, a male in his late 30s working for the herschel walker campaign. we are told he told cnn that he had been driving schlapp. that they went to two bars. he's now driving him back to his hotel and that's when the sexual assault happened. the staffer said that he froze. he didn't say anything. he didn't know what to do, he just wanted to get him back to the hotel as quickly as possible. they get to the hotel and the staffer says that schlapp invited him up to his hotel room. he declined to do that, and several hours later he informed top campaign staffers what happened. >> that same day, same night? >> overnight. so it's late at night when it happens and then he tells them early the next morning. the staffer says that the campaign was incredible and completely supportive and said what can we -- what can we do to help? for the record, schlapp is denying the charges. as you mentioned, w

cnn's special correspondent jamie gangel is here. jamie, you've gotten great reporting.'ve also learned how these documents were discovered. so just walk us through that. >> big picture for context, i think it's important to state that almost all the papers in the office were personal. they included materials about beau biden's funeral arrangements, condolence letters, reference material. in fact, that's why a personal lawyer to biden was going through the material and cleaning it out, so that it would remain confidential. my understanding is the lawyer is going through the boxes, he sees a manila envelope marked, stamped on the front "vp personal," which may explain how it got packed up. he opens it up. he sees classified. immediately closes the folder again and calls for help. the archives are informed that day, immediately. they come the next day to pick up the three or four boxes. and in those boxes -- my understanding is when the archives come to the office they sort of of look around, do a cursory check. they identify three or four boxes that contain these ten clas

cnn's jamie gangel, who broke the story, joins us in the moment. first, though, the irony of classified documents ending up where they did, of all places. >> did you take any classified documents with you from the white house? >> i did not. >> do you see any reason for anyone to take classified documents with them leaving the white house? >> well, there would be no reason to have classified documents, particularly if they were in an unprotected area. >> so that was the former vice president in november talking about the former president, saying there is no reason for anyone to take classified documents with them after leaving office. here he is three days after the first batch of biden documents was reported suggesting that he knew how to handle such things. and then vice president did not. >> the handling of classified materials and the nation's secret is a very serious matter, and as a former vice president of the united states, i can speak from personal experience about the attention that ought to be paid to those materials when you're in office

. >> let's get back to the question to jamie gangel of the discovery at pence's home. and joining us is also a partner the law firm of beth sayed, and also, beth, joining us here we are again, and another discovery of classified documents at the home of a former president, and this time, a vice president, and we are hearing from the elected officials, democrats and republicans who are outraged walking us through the process of their seeing classified products and they go into the skiff and they have to check them at the door, and what happens when the people like the president or the vice president are given the classified documents, because clearly that is not the case, and they manage to inadvertently or intentionally bring them home. >> yes, that is different than the white house compound which is considered much more secure, and has many more rules about the classified documents, and so it is correct, i think that, you know, in the case of the center that you go into the skiff, but you can also in some cases, the committees can access classified documents up to a c

this is not a political group of people, anderson. >> jamie gangel, appreciate it. as we mentioned, the president spoke for the first time about this before returning home tonight for the north american leader summit in mexico. chief white house correspondent phil mattingly joins us now, with what he said can you tell us? >> white house officials have been very clear. they put out a statement from the white house counsel's office, there is going to be very little if anything they would say, as the justice department review continues to play out but the president gave his version of the event, events that -- white house counsel's team, and also this response when he discovered that these documents existed. take a listen. >> people know i take classified documents, classified information seriously. when my lawyers -- university of pennsylvania they set up an office for me a, secure office in the capital, four years after being vice president i was a professor at penn. they found some documents in the box in, a locked cabinet. or at least a closet. and as soon as they

our cnn special correspondent jamie gangel is breaking this, evan perez with us, jamie, walk us through what we know. >> so more documents. this is now number three, former vice president mike pence out of an abundance of caution, we are told he had a lawyer go through his house and double-check boxes. they found four boxes in his home in indiana. they say they had been sealed since the time he left his vice president. they go through the boxes and found roughly 12 documents that have -- appear to have cla classified markings on them. they immediately called -- this was last week. they immediately called the national archives to hand them over. it's our understanding the archives because of everything that's going on with biden and trump alerted the justice department and the night of january 19th, the fbi came to the pence home in indiana and they handed over those 12 documents. for clarity, these boxes have not been stored in a secure place. they've been in his home, but i'm told they were sealed. however, when the lawyer found these 12 documents, they took the 12 documents and kept t

and vice presidents. >> andy mccabe, if i could get you to respond to what you just heard from jamie gangelis a question many are asking, how common is this of presidents to remove classified documents, knowingly or unknowingly, and storing them, has it happened before. and also to the question of the impartiality and the respect that members of both parties have for prosecutor rob hur because i'm just a bit skeptical given that we heard the same accolades in the initial early days of bob mueller being assigned to investigate the former president until that all changed. >> sure. so to your first question, i think jamie is absolutely right. i think this is until very recently, these problems with the retention of classified material or sensitive material by presidents is fairly rare. i would suggest that the reason for that is because presidential administrations and vice presidential administrations have large, competent professional staffs. this is largely a staff issue. i would be willing to bet a lot of money that joe biden didn't sit there and decide what got packed up out of his vice p

we now know from sources who talked to jamie gangel that we're talking about ten documents that were found in a closet at an office that the then vice president who was leaving office had set up with the university of pennsylvania at a center here in washington. now, these documents apparently cover -- they were related to intelligence memos, they were briefing materials that were prepared for biden when he was vice president and they cover a range of topics including iran, ukraine and the united kingdom so these were documents that would have been prepared for him when he was serving as vice president and somehow they ended up in boxes sent over and were provided -- rather housed at his office that was being set up at the university of pennsylvania here in washington. a lawyer who worked for joe biden and his operation there, political operation was at the center trying to close out this office last fall and that's when they came across these documents inside a manila folder and this person saw a label that clearly identified material that said it was classified and that's when, of

our jamie gangel said out of an abundance of caution they took a bunch of boxes, even if they didn't have classified information, decided to return it, give it to the national archives, said, here, take a look at these. as a last measure pat moore had some documents involving personal speeches and reference materials taken to his office back in boston. he had the national archives come and retrieve those documents. what you're getting a picture of there is a biden team that is, you know, i think trying to draw contrast with the way trump has handled his own documents issues, right? they're trying to draw a picture of cooperation. >> the investigation is now in the hands of robert herr who was appointed special counsel just last week. andrew mckay weighed in on some of the questions that may be asked. >> it's going to first be you think of it as chain of custody type of questions. they're going to say to somebody who was present when the documents were discovered in the penn biden office, they're going to say, okay, where were you in relation to the closet where the documents were fou

this has never happened before, as jamie gangel said last night, in a word, never. and two people that might face off in the 2024 election. >> well, it's why we all got into the news business because we know that no hollywood script writer could have come up with this. you know, it's just so astonishing and those clips you showed before of republicans making excuses for trump and piling on biden, democrats doing exactly the opposite, that does remind me of a hollywood script, "cassablanca" where the inspector says i'm shocked to find out there's gambling in the back room. it's all politics and it's quite extraordinary. yes, they're going to be investigating, they're continuing to investigate trump and whether he still has documents. but given the fact that we just found out yesterday there was a third batch of documents, or at least one document, a third group coming from biden, you've got to assume that the new special prosecutor will be investigating that and whether we have found all of the biden documents. >> if you're explaining, you're losing. and so, listen,

cnn's jamie gangel was part of the team that broke this exclusive reporting today. jamie, we just heard pence there saying he didn't take classified information. so what happened here? >> look, this appears to have been inadvertent. what we know is it seems to have happened in the final days of the trump/pence presidency and the classified documents appear to have been packed up with personal items that were at the vice president's residence. and i think that's important because we know that actually the pence office was very rigorous about the process of their paperwork when it was packed away and things were sent to the proper place at the white house. what we don't know, who packed them up at the vice president's residence? when they saw the classified markings, why weren't they put aside? and we still don't know the content of these documents, the level of classification, the sensitivity. what we know, though, is they weren't in a secure location at the pence family home, and they have been sitting there for quite some time now. when the documents were covered b

cnn's jamie gangel broke the story, and joins us in a moment. i did not. >> do you have any reason to take classified documents run them from, the white house? >> well, there be no reason to have classified documents, particularly if they were in an unprotected area. >> so, that was the former vice president in november talking about the former president, saying there's no reason for anyone to take classified optimism after leaving office. here is three days after leaving the first batch of biden documents was reported, suggesting he knew how to handle such things. and then vice president biden did not. >> the handling of classified materials in the nations secret is a various secret matter. as a former vice president of the united states, i can confirm from personal experience about the intention that ought to be paid to those materials when you're in office, and after you leave office. clearly, that did not take place in this case. >> newer apparently in his, that said that the justice with the department of justice documents, there is no evid

jamie gangel joins us tonight with more. so, what is this staffer alleging happened?, the republican strategist is alleging, as you described, that matt schlapp made unwanted sexual advances as he drove him back to his hotel. and once they got to the hotel, the strategist says that matt schlapp invited him up to his hotel room. he declined. just for context, anderson, the strategist is a male in his late 30s who was at the time working for the georgia gop and herschel walker's senate campaign. he told cnn that he had been assigned that day to drive schlapp to campaign events, and the incident happened on the right back to the hotel on october 19th. >> the staffer has made these allegations. how is slapper's ponding? >> we have a statement from his lawyer. he denies the allegations, and his lawyer gave us the statement, quote, the attack is false and mr. schlapp denies any improper behavior. we are evaluating legal options for response. we should say, anderson also that the board of directors of the ecu that he is the chair of also released a statement saying that they

jamie gangel joins us at the table, elliot williams is back with us as well as phil mattingly, jamiedealing with a little laryngitis so the national archives, is this out of an abundance of caution or have some reason to believe there are more records missing so, please, president obama, president clinton, vice president cheney, vice president, quayle and so on, look through your records. >> they don't know what they don't know but after trump, biden and now pence, sorry about my voice, they're just asking everyone to go back, triple check, quadruple check, we should say that over the past weeks, cnn has reached out to all the former presidents, all the former vice presidents, their representatives, everyone has said that they don't have anything, that they've turned it all over but that's what mike pence said and that's what biden thought, so what they've said, we've reviewed a copy of the letter that went out, and it says we request you conduct and assessment of any materials you have to determine whether bodies previously presumed to be personal in night might inadvertently contai

we've also learned from our colleague jamie gangel, there were likely just checking to make sure nothinge've also heard from previous justice department officials who have told us look, this is standard operating procedure. jake, this is not a standard case. this has to do with the president of the united states and a justice department trying to prove to the american people that this case is being handled fairly and like the one into the former president. so this whole incident raises a lot of questions how transparent the white house and the president's attorneys are really being here. >> all right. paula reid thanks so much. house republican leaders are working to lockdown enough votes to make good on speaker mc mccarthy's vow to remove ilhan omar from minnesota from the foreign affairs committee over past anti israel comments she has made using anti antis-semi droep tropes. man us following this. ilhan omar apologized for at least one of the comments. some suggested a compromise resolution to allow her, omar and any other futures to appeal to the house ethics committee if ousted. whe

i want to get some reaction from our analysts who are here, jamie gangel, you've done amazing reportingof this. the first time the president has gone into some specifics what he knew, what he didn't know. does this line up, first of all, with what you've been reporting? >> the facts about the documents being locked away and his lawyers finding them, absolutely. that's what happened. i think it's interesting that president biden said people know i take classified documents seriously, but what it doesn't answer is how did these documents get to the office? they should never have left the white house to begin with. so i guess he put his best foot forward on this, but we still don't know how they got there, why, and were they secure this whole time. >> phil mattingly is over at the white house. he has been monitoring all of this over the past 24 hours or so. give us your sense of what we just heard, phil. >> i think how jamie frames things is probably the correct one in this is what the president knows. this is what his team has briefed him has happened. and underscores the president is sti

others, the general topics have become known through the course of the investigation and now to jamie gangel's reporting. as you're saying, someone simply can't go over the archives and look at this, but i think in the context of this, as i've been talking to many people in former presidencies -- the offices of former presidents and vice presidents, vice president material is handled in a very different way. the presidential actor pertains to the president. the vice president staff is largely left to its own in some respects, so yes, the classified material was being taken out for months, but it seems like a few random papers were caught up in the mix, as he was in a flurry and whirlwind of activity in the final week of his vice presidency. so he is saying he was surprised by the finding of it, and he does not know, but that is not necessarily the fact that people don't know the general topics of these memos. >> jamie, we're learning that the doj have started interviews, some of president biden's former aids as part of the investigation. know anything about that? >> i think they're interested

joining us now is cnn special correspondent jamie gangel with the latest in the story that she just broke. do we know how documents got into pence's home, and if they were in a secure location? >> it appears that the classified documents, anderson, had been at the vice president's residence, and were inadvertently packed up, along with personal items in the final days of the trump pence administration. in case you are wondering, a hat was also found in one of the boxes. the hat was unclassified. we are told that they were first move to a temporary house, in virginia, and then moved again to the home in indiana. you have to wonder, anderson, how does this happen? they were marked, clear rules about how huge tree classified records. i don't believe that there were any guidelines on the hat, but to your point, it's not just that the system is broken. there is human error here the with the people to pack these boxes up. >> i want to place you had something that the former vice president said earlier this month. >> our staff reviewed all of the materials in our office and in our residents to e

. >> jamie gangel, i appreciate it. as we mentioned the president spoke for the first time about this before returning home tonight from the summit in mexico. what he said and what was unsaid. what can you tell us? >> reporter: white house officials have been very clear. they put out an on the record statement and there would be little if anything else they would say as this justice department review continues to play out. but the president gave his version of the event, events that track very closely with his white house counsel's team and also his response when he discovered these documents existed. take a listen. >> people know i take classified documents or classified information seriously. when my lawyers were clearing out my office that the university of pennsylvania they setup an office for me, secure office in the capital the four years after being vice president i was a professor at penn. they found some documents in a box, you know, locked cabinet or at least a closet. and as soon as they did they realized the

. >> speaking of transparency, jamie gangel, what about the fact we've had so much transparency we haven't been in legislative business so the c-span cameramen and women have been able to shoot anything they want as opposed to the government seizing what they have. are they going to allow the c-span cameramen and women to continue to show what's going on the floor of the people's house? >> first of all, you've had too much coffee. >> where is your energy coming from? >> i'm just taking these people at their word. >> big finish, jake. look, i just want to say one thing that i would like in the rules package thought that i get a vote. i want the c-span cameras to stay. >> america does. >> just this way. i salute c-span this week. it's been spectacular. but to your point about transparency, are we shocked, shocked, shocked that we don't know what the concessions are or what it's going to be? that is the epitome of what's been going on all this week. and it's -- it's not just that this group of 20 plus one present, the chaos caucus has held everybody hostage and kevin mccarthy hostage. but it'

cnn's jamie gangel helped break the story for us. what else are you learning right now? >> along with our colleague evan perez, what we have learned is it appears these documents had been at the vice president's residence at the end of the trump/pence term, and they were inadvertently packed up along with personal items in those final days. that said, they shouldn't have been. they were clearly marked as classified. the content of the documents, the level of classification, the sensitivity we do not know yet. they were also kept for these two years in a location that was not secure, first in a rental house in virginia that the pences lived in, then in their house in indiana. however, when this lawyer for the pences found these classified documents, he did put them in a safe until the fbi picked them up. there is something else to remember here, wolf, and that is this comes in the wake of trump documents at mar-a-lago, biden's documents, and pence has repeatedly, as recently as a couple of weeks ago said he did not have any classified documents. so let's just take a liste

. >> we're joined by elliott williams, also senior legal analyst, elie honig, also jamie gangel, who the reporting on this, and david axelrod. elie, let's talk about, legally, how big of a deal is this? >> potentially a very big deal both for joe biden and for donald trump. there's a lot we need to know, anderson, and the details matter. there could be a lot of differences between the scenarios. did joe biden know? what was the purpose? how did the documents get there? how many were there? were they cooperative or obstructive? on paper, those could make the difference between something that is criminal or not criminal. we don't live on paper, nor do prosecutors. and you have to look at this -- i look at this through a political lens and a reality lens, which is is merrick garland, who is going to have the say here, who is known for nothing if not being averse to politics. he wants nothing that appears to be political. is he going to give his own boss, the person who put him in the position as attorney general, a pass and at the same time try to lock up the person who's running agains

cnn's special correspondent jamie gangel is working this story for us.at are you learning about these allegations against matt schlapp? >> we've learned that a republican strategist is alleging that matt schlapp, who's the influential chairman of the acu, made unwanted sexual advances including groepg him and fondling him as he drove schlapp back to his hotel. this was several weeks before the election date in november. the strategist is a male in his late 30s. he was working for the georgia state gop and the herschel walker campaign. and he had been assigned to drive schlapp that night. he says the incident happened on the way back to the hotel. that when they got to the hotel, the staffer says schlapp invited him up, he declined, and hours later he informed campaign officials. schlapp's attorney denies this claim. quote, the attack is false and mr. schlapp denies any improper behavior. we are evaluating legal options for response. >> you've also opted -- and this is pretty important -- some text messages sent in realtime. what do they reveal? >> cnn ha

>> reporter: it's a great reporting, abby, from jamie gangel who learned that these classified documentskely part of background briefing materials that the vice president had received in preparation for foreign trips. as you know, when you go on these trips you often get materials that include stuff like basic biographical information about the people you're meeting with but they can also include more sensitive information and it appears that's what happened here though there's no indication that any of these materials had the highest levels of classification. also we learned these materials were tucked in a binder and unless someone went through the binder page by page it's unlikely they would have been able to identify this material. but, abby, of course, all of this speaks to the larger questions about the handling and inadvertent retention of classified information, i know even former president trump's lawyers have suggested, look, part of his issue, part of the larger issue is what happens at the end of an administration, a lot of people left for new jobs and the packing process can

also with us, cnn special correspondent jamie gangel, who did some reporting on this.nn senior political commentator david axelrod, former adviser for obama. ali, let's start about, legally, is this helping the deal? >> potentially, a big deal, both for biden and trump. now, there is a lot we need to know, anderson. and the details matter here. there could be a lot of differences between the two scenarios. most importantly, joe biden no? what was the purpose? how did these documents get there? how many were there? were they co-operative, or where they obstructive? on paper, those could make the difference between something that is criminal or not criminal, but we don't live on paper, nor do prosecutors. and we have to look at this, and i look at this through a political lens, and reality lens, which is he is merrick garland, who ultimately is going to have the say here. who is known for nothing more than -- nothing if not being a verse to politics. he now wants nothing that appears to be political. is he going to give his own boss, the person who put him in the positio

jamie gangel, you have new reporting i understand on how the national archives are dealing with thisright now. >> reporter: well, it won't surprise anyone to know that the republicans in the house oversight committee, the chairman reached out to the ork archives, asked for them to come in and give a briefing. the archives responded yesterday, and they're very cooperative but -- emphasis on the "but" because what they said to the committee was with the doj investigation going on, they have to conifer with the justice department. and the justice department will then have to conifer with the new special counsel. so i would say they say they would like to cooperate, but it's not going to happen any time -- >> that's exactly how they should have responded under the circumstances. there's a long held understanding in this town on the hill that congress doesn't get access to the information and the evidence involved in ongoing criminal investigations, and that's what we have here. i mean, ongoing material in an ongoing criminal investigation is actually an exception to the freedom of inform

here you have full cooperation, the kinds of documents that if it's just what jamie gangel is reportingi saw these documents every day when i was in the white house, and when i was ambassador. never, i had a rule -- >> evan, it was a corvette and the garage was locked. >> we do not know that biden put them in the garage, a vice president of staff by a lot of people, i had a rule when i looked at a document, i read it at my desk standing up and then i gave it back to somebody else. i suspect here that we may find it is this somebody else's that were involved. so a very different situation between smith and her. >> i understand in terms of the legal nuance of, but is it appreciable for the general electorate? >> i think we're gonna find out. i think the outcome of the special counsel investigation is going to matter a lot more than the fact of the special counsel investigation, existing. so at the end of the day the lie that you're hearing for democrats including some democrats right here at this table right now is that one of -- this difference from going ten miles over the limit and 60

with me right now kaitlan collins, abby philip, dana bash and jamie gangel.ago on maga media was talking about how he was excited, he was encouraged, he was referring to kevin mccarthy as speaker designate mccarthy which is certainly a promotion from what he was calling him a day or two ago which was a squatter. he was calling him a squatter in the speaker's office. all of this was just like going through the details of getting a prenup figured out before the marriage. it's just an uncomfortable thing you have to work out before you actually settle down to the business. and he's said they've gotten so many concessions from mccarthy he has nothing left to ask for. honestly i have to tell you it sounds like he might even be a yes not just even a present, i mean the way he was talking. >> so what you're saying is matt gaetz is not consistent? >> i know it might come as a surprise to you. >> shocking. no. i mean, listen, let's just sort of mark the moment for a second. and it is -- we were all sitting here for many, many hours this week, and there were many, many

. >> manu, as we've said, according to jamie gangel's reporting, briefing materials that cover topics including ukraine, iran, the uk, are house republicans interested, is there some relevance to the content of these documents or simply their existence, the discovery gives them everything they need. >> both really, victor. but expect this to be an area of focus going forward especially how the justice departmented handled this. they'll vote to create a new select cubby committee on the overall house judiciary committee likely to be jim jordan, the chairman. he didn't want to discuss whether he would probe this issue specifically but they plan to look more broadly into the justice department, into ongoing investigations of the justice department has on individual citizens including donald trump, expected to be part of that probe so depending how they handle -- the justice department handles the donald trump investigation, how they handle this biden probe which is different, not criminal but different, but is related in dealing with classified documents expect republicans to heavily scr

. >> when we have no idea what's going to happen, jamie gangel. >> jake, i was just hearing from a republican member of congress who again has been trying to negotiate behind the scenes, the member says to me, i just don't know how he gets there, they, meaning the freedom caucus, the opponents, quote, smell blood. he gave in to demand after demand. none of it was enough. i said, what happens next? the person said, who knows? and then on a slightly lighter note a republican activist who is responsible for getting a lot of these members elected just texted me, welcome to day one of the gop majority. >> that's the thing, right? this is again they haven't even tried to start to do the hard stuff yet. and they -- >> raising the debt ceiling. >> raising the debt ceiling, governing the country, funding the government, et cetera, et cetera, and the other thing too, this is where i get hung up is again you can't beat somebody with nobody and there hasn't been so far, this is why we've been focusing on how steve kalisz has been posturing in public and how jim jordan has been posturing in public. neithe

and our jamie gangel also reports that, you know, they, basically out of an abundance of caution, took, even if they don't have classified information, decided to return it, give it to the national archives, saying here, take a look at these. and then as a last measure, pat moore had had some documents, including personal speeches and some reference materials, taken to his office back in boston. he had the national archives come and retrieve those documents. you know, what you're getting a picture of there is, you know, a biden team that is, you know, i think trying to draw a contrast with the way trump has handled his own documents issues, right. and they're trying to draw a picture of cooperation. now as you know, they have a new special counsel who's going to be doing an investigation. they may need to come back and interview some of these same people. we know that the initial interview with pat moore, for instance, was not done with a 302, as you know, which is the way these interviews are usually memorialized. >> that's an important point. the idea of not necessarily reinventing t

. >> with me here, minus only groundhog day's audie cornish and dana bash and kasie hunt and jamie gangelnd david chalian. thank you one and all for being here. jamie? >> yeah? >> i don't know what you were hearing, but i am starting to hear from kevin mccarthy allies a note of resignation and defeat. not that mccarthy is there, but an acknowledgment in what they are saying along the lines of, well, this is going to be really i have to for whoever the next speaker is. >> we have heard this in bits and pieces along the way. they'll say we're for kevin mccarthy, and then the magic word, "but." everybody has been prepared that this simply may not work out. i'm hearing something else from kevin mccarthy allies, and maybe some people who are not strong allies, but people who have been voting for them. and i call it concession regret, which is something the congresswoman just told you, jake, she doesn't know what's being promised away in that room. and there is real concern. we have seen historic dysfunction, at least in the modern era. and there is real concern that the promises that kevin is

cnn special correspondent jamie g gangel, late night was having a field day but it's not funny. these are classified documents with potentially very serious national security implications. what more do you know about how they were found? >> we have been joking about everyone is now checking their sock drawer. as you say, this should not have happened. these are marked documents t. appears that the classified documents in the case of former vice president mike pence were packed up from the vice president's residence at the time. so that was a very different system from what they were doing at the white house. i'm told by sources involved with presidential papers and vice presidential papers, they did a rigorous process, but perhaps what happened at the residence slipped through. there are four boxes that they had taken with them. first it was moved to a temporary house in virginia. then it was moved to the house in indiana. we're told the boxes were taped up, that they had never been gone through, but they weren't kept in a secure location. when they discovered the roughly 12 cla