john eastman is a former u.s.s, but the supreme court justices are constantly hearing cases in which their former law clerks appear as lawyers representing one side or the other. and they don't recuse in those cases. john eastman's failed appeal to the supreme court was an attempt to reverse a lower court ruling that forced him to try and turn over emails to the january six committee that john eastman said should have been protected by attorney client privilege. federal judge david carter forced john eastman to hand over his emails because of the crime, fraud exception to the attorney client privilege. the judge wrote, the illegality of the plan was obvious. that was not something that bothered clarence thomas's wife about any of the plans to overturn the last presidential election. thanks to the january 6th committee's subpoena for former white house chief of staff mark meadows, text messages, we know that two months before the january 6th attack on the capitol, clarence thomas's wife texted mark meadows, do not

here kenneth chesbro essentially acknowledges that he conspired with donald trump, john eastman, rudyliani and others. what does that mean for the fulton county da's case going forward? >> it certainly helps. look, the way that this was set up, these attorneys were going to have their trial first, i think they went out in front and tried to do that because they recognized at a joint trial with donald trump and john eastman and others, ultimately what was going to happen is donald trump and others were going to be pointing fingers at the attorneys and saying the attorneys put them up to it, the attorneys blessed this and said it was okay. now instead of having that dynamic where the defendants are pointing fingers at each other, now the attorneys are going to say, we committed crimes and these people were part of it. and i think that makes the da's case stronger and i also think it creates problems for some of the other defendants including some of the other attorneys. >> is he a stronger witness than sidney powell? >> it's not possible to be a weaker witness than sidney powell. i supp

we know that justice thomas's wife, ginni thomas, has had some communications with john eastman.e might have chosen this. but we weren't told that. we were just told that he took no part in the consideration of the case, which the justices rejected today and said they're not gonna take it. >> but where are you surprised because he's never recused himself before? just on january 6th cases. >> i mean, sure, i guess -- i was a little surprised, but it also was sort of what we have seen over this past year that the fact is that enough attention being given to these issues, whether it be from the media, from advocates, from the senate, from other members of the house, this attention matters, like accountability matters. and short of actually being able to pass laws which isn't gonna happen given the current u.s. house. and absent impeachment which also is not going to happen given this house. the public pressure is the best thing that we can do. and i think that we are getting some small signs that that public pressure, that they care about it, that they do notice it. >> what about th

justice thomas' wife, ginny, emailed t ed john eastman in th weeks before january 6th. >>> we turn now to the horror in a day care in california. several children falling into a pool. two of them did not survive. but there was an urgent effort to try to save them all. tonight, the investigation, how did this happen? and here's abc's zohreen shah. >> reporter: tonight, the san jose police homicide unit and the santa clara county d.a.'s office are investigating the deaths of two children after they fell into a pool at this day care. it happened just after 9:00 a.m. local time at the happy happy day care, based out of a resident. you can see the pool in the backyard surrounded by a tall fence. >> we have three patients altogether. two are going to be immediate. i need two more ambulances. >> reporter: there were reportedly five children at the day care at the time. ambulances rushing three to the hospital in critical condition. two of the children later pronounced dead. the third child expected to survive. and david, police say they will be on the scene for a significant amount of time as

also pay attention to john eastman and rudy giuliani. these are both individuals that ken chesebro could provide tail light about with raespect to th crafting of the fake electors scheme. all of them played some role therein, and chesebro could provide a tremendous amount of valuable testimony. and frankly, i would think that's far more what prosecutors are interested in than testimony that chesebro could provide about donald trump. the other thing i would note is it's a felony, and paula mentioned this a moment ago as well, sidney powell pled guilty to a number of misdemeanors. pleading guilty carrying a number of restrictions on somebody's rights. it could affect his right to vote, his right to own a firearm until restored by the governor of the state. this is quite significant for him and all the other defendant. >> elliot, thank you so much. appreciate it. and as we digest that, we remember that i'm here on capitol hill because we still don't have a speaker of the house. part of the reason for that is because a man who donald trump s

e-mails, john eastman famously the lawyer that hatched the plot to overturn the election results.oes that sig nal anything to you at all about how these justices are thinking about the efforts and in around the 2020 elections? >> so i'm not holding my breath to see justice thomas begin to recuse wholesale from cases where he might have what people might perceive is a conflict of interest. eastman is one of his former law clerks. that was too direct of a conflict for this court to stomach, but i think looking at this issue about presidential immunity and the larger context of some conservative jurisprudence that has focused on expanding the range of presidential power, perhaps there's a way that trump lawyers like chris kise believe they can make it palatable to the supreme court. you might remember, alex, when bill barr was auditioning himself for the attorney general job as jeff sessions time as attorney general came to an end. he wrote this lengthy memo saying a president couldn't be prosecuted for obstruction of justice because of something called the unitarian executivethyry t

so what republicans have done is they have essentially given john eastman a gavel. the difference between mike johnson and john eastman are different fringe legal theories and one got indicted and one got promoted. >> do you think there are other ways that people who are interested in having a free and fair election should be preparing or other systems that need to be strengthened ahead of 2024? >> yeah, look, there's a role for all of us. if you're in a state, you know, there are things you can do in your states to strengthen and harden democracy. you can make it harder for people to act as election vigilantes which we saw right-wing organizations do. you can hire more poll workers and make sure that election officials are doing their jobs. so if you're an ordinary citizen, you can frankly stand up in your town square, whether it's your online presence, your social media, or your group of friends who grab a cup of coffee on the weekend and educate them on what republicans like mike johnson are planning. because if we're all more educated and we all know what's happ

he can perhaps, cause john eastman to flip.ht into that inner sanctum, the inner room with donald trump. the possible domino effect that we see here from these witnesses flipping, to the value of the chesbrough testimony alone, i think he should be very concerned. >> obviously, scott hall, that was early because his trial was gonna be the later trial, but in this case, the time limit was now. this is a week of sydney powell, but not necessarily, this was their trial was gonna happen. the other trial is months away. do you think we're gonna see more of this on the way to that trial, as parker just alluded to? >> it wouldn't be shocking. right? one of the things that a lot of these conversations are taking place behind closed doors. it's very worth noting that over 90%, well over 90%, of criminal cases that are going to plead guilty, so in some respects, it's not shocking. that this is working the way it is, that on the eve of jury selection, we saw that these guilty pleas were coming forward. but, that said, given the states, th

court in georgia is a felony where he admits to coordinating with donald trump, rudy giuliani, john eastman, people on the trump campaign, republicans in georgia, trying to get fake electors organized to help this effort to delay or overcome trump's loss in that state. so chesebro being able to admit now in court that he's guilty of this conspiracy that's quite a domino to fall in favor of fulton county district attorney fani willis and it will have implications for the 16 other remaining defendants awaiting trial in fulton county, it also could have implications for the federal case against donald trump set to go to trial in march. >> it is huge potentially. katelyn polantz, thank you for that reporting. >>> also happening today the journal that is overseeing former president donald trump's civil fraud trial in new york suggested that trump could be imprisoned for what he calls a blatant violation of his gag order. >> judge he think ron scolded trump's attorneys and issued that stern warning after he learned that a social media post attacking his clerk had never been removed from trump's c

here's how rnc chairwoman romney mcdaniel described a conversation she had with donald trump and john eastman a few days before the electoral college and fake trump electors met on december 14th. >> what did the president say when he called you? >> essentially he turned the call over to mr. eastman who then proceeded to talk about the importance of the rnc helping the campaign gather these contingent electors in case any of the legal challenges that were ongoing changed the result of any of the case. i think more just helping them reach out and assemble them. but the -- my understanding is the campaign did take the lead, and we just were helping them in that role. >> turning our coverage, solicitor general neil cotsyel is here, top justice department official an droos drew weiss. and tim hafey. we talked about there yesterday in the -- i think it was your view, andrew and tim, that the plea with sidney powell might have underwhelmed. this was a felony plea and chesebro brings us straight to eastman and trump. i wonder about this development, tim. >> exactly right. i think it's a bigger deal t

it happened in an appeal from his wife ginni's email penpal, john eastman.s' one time clerk and former trump legal adviser and indicted coconspirator in the plot to overturn the 2020 election. a plot ginni thomas enthusiastically supported if not participated in. eastman asked the court to toss a lower court ruling allowing the house january 6th committee to see emails eastman said were protected by attorney/client privilege. the court rejected the appeal. justice thomas did not explain his reasons for recusing this time after refusing to recuse in otr cases involving january 6th including one where thomas was the lone dissenters. the justices have plenty more on their plate this term, everything from abortion rights to gun rights to first amendment protections and the power of the federal government. question is, can the court's right wing majority be trusted to rule on anything? where the rights of the people versus the whims of big money are on the line. joining me now to answer that question is elie mystal, justice correspondent for the nation. i think i

so this time the case is a little different because john eastman was a former clerk to clarence thomasas a personal relationship with him. and clarence thomas was mentioned in the e-mails involved in this case that john eastman was trying to prevent being handed over to the january 6th committee, so there are republicans here why clarence thomas might have felt like he needed to recuse himself in a way he didn't in the previous case but also maybe some of this pressure is now bearing fruit. >> lawrence hurley, thank you for the update. much appreciated. >>> an 11th hour agreement has put the brakes on another possible strike in the auto industry. mac trucks and the united auto workers reached a deal to stave off a strike by nearly 4,000 workers. that news comes as the union continues to wage strikes against the big three car manufacturers. jesse kirsch is outside a stellantis facility in streetsburg, ohio. what's the latest on this deal with mack trucks? >> reporter: something to keep in mind there. a separate situation, separate companies working on a deal there with the uaw, but what

which is why people like donald trump and john eastman and rudy giuliani are unlikely too plead guiltyillis offers them the best deal because jack smith could still indictment them, he has indicted trump and could use that as evidence against trump. and other people he hasn't indicted like giuliani and eastman, we could be sure that at some point based on the allegations in the trump indictment that jack smith is coming for them. >> real quick. michael cohen has a civil suit that he's involved in with donald trump. so trump left the new york court to go to florida. he had said i can't, i can't, i can't, i can't leave to do this deposition because i got to be in court in new york. but now he's gone. >> we know donald trump hates any kind of court proceeding where he has to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. he has a problem with that. so, i don't blame him for trying to put that off as long as he could. >> yeah. that deposition -- depositions don't go well for him. >> that's exactly right. >> they're not his friend. paul butler, always fun. thank you very much. >>

have direct evidence against donald trump, but he has direct evidence against rudy giuliani and john eastmantwo of them, it's not a good day because they are both reported to be unindicted coconspirators in the federal case. they are indicted conspirators in the georgia case. and they are now somebody with direct evidence who can testify against them. and as barbara said, what he has pled, to unlike what sydney powell pled to, is something that is core to the january 6th scheme. he has now admitted, as part of his guilty plea, that he was part of a scheme to defraud the voters of georgia, to overturn their votes in the presidential election. >> that is central to the georgia indictment. amy lee copeland, i think we have you back, we fix the issue. let me ask you about, everybody involved in the georgia case has done every whatever they could to save their case, moved to federal court, and now there are a bunch of people who are gonna go to trial. what does the fact that this is happened in the last few days mean for the rest of that trial? >> well, as barb mentioned. this is great. the dea n

as is custom the court gave no reasons for denying the review and the appeal was filed by john eastman of federal lawyer with vice president donald trump. and mr. eastman had served in the long-term, he offered no explanation for his decision and this all of five himself from the case. his wife known as ginny participated to overturn the election and mr. eastman's petition was viewed in the long shot and was eliciting no long shot from the party and he did not file a briefing. laura in kansas republican line. you're up next. caller: hello? host:hi, you're on. caller: oh ok. number one i -- i have a couple things i want to say. first of all i want to say michelle obama was the dumbest first lady we ever had. and i want to say that matt baker is due bit and a liar. he would not even vote for the conservative bill that kevin brought up. he voted against it. nothing pleases him. he -- he is -- is hurting the republican party. i think the republicans need to oust him. and i think mccarthy is doing a good job and i agree with the last color. about the --caller. about the democrats. it is my

john eastman, famously, the lawyer that helped hatch the plot to overturn election results. at all about how these justices are thinking about the efforts in around the 2020 election? >> so, i'm not holding my breath to see justice thomas begin to recuse, wholesale, from cases. where he might have what people would perceive as a conflict of interest. eastman is one of his former law clerk's. that, perhaps, was even to direct of a conflict for this court to stomach. i think, looking at this issue about presidential immunity and the larger context of some conservative jurisprudence, that is focused on expanding the range of presidential power, perhaps there's a way that trump lawyers, like chris keys, who's a former florida solicitor general on accomplished appellate lawyer, believe that they can make it palatable to the supreme court. this is a candidate argument, you might remember this, alex, when bill barr was auditioning himself for the attorney general job. as jeff sessions time as attorney general came to an end. he wrote this lengthy memo saying, the president couldn't

of course not only some of the people you just mentioned like john eastman and mr.meone like gianna allen and if you had to ask me who is the most likely next person i wouldn't be surprised if it's someone like gianna alice who doesn't have a lot of money doesn't have resources to be defending yourself. she is a lawyer she is very similarly situated to the two people that just pled guilty and all the lawyers are going to be in a tough spot at trial. they will have the people like donald trump saying the lawyers told me to do it the lawyers said it was okay and then they're going to have witnesses like kenneth chesbrough and sidney powell saying we were lawyers just like them and we were guilty of crimes. and that's what i think the next dominoes to fall and that's going to ultimately be a problem for donald. trump >> in the pecking order of things where would you rate the significance of jonesboro and powell's flipping. what is your take on the idea that these two flips could be as described as the nail in trump's legal coffin. what they are is the first domino to f

today's decision involved former trump lawyer john eastman who used to be a law clerk for justice thomas. the supreme court will not hear eastman's request to here a ruling to allow the january 6th committee to access some of his e-mails. >>> climate change will get more costly for americans. that's in a new report by the treasury department. climate change will impose substantial costs on households in the future, including weather disaster like flooding, wildfires, extreme heat, all of which can impact job stability, homes, your health and food prices. weather disaster cost over a record $617 billion. within the last year, 13% of americans reported economic hardships due to severe weather events. >>> the jokes are back, get ready far slew of monologues and laughs and guests, the late night shows are back tonight. the writers strike, as you probably know, ended last week, after nearly 150 days on the picket line. returning this evening, jimmy fallon, seth meyers, john oliver on sunday. >> this is my family here so my other family. so i really missed everybody. i'm like, i have to start

admitted he conspired to put forward fake gop electors in georgia with trump and giuliani and john eastman. giuliani and eastman have already pleaded not guilty, and they face the prospect of chesebro taking the witness stand against them. i want to dive in now to the former counsel to president george w. bush. attorney brad moss. we've already had one plea, two threes, now three pleas. there are still at least 15 more people on the docket. when you saw this, did you think it would be a felony, and he would actually name trump, giuliani, and eastman in the discussion? i wasn't surprised because think of what we saw just yesterday with powell. powell got it pled down to misdemeanors. the early fish gets the worm. as we get closer and closer to the bigger trial, which will be the one that will have donald trump and any of the remaining defendants, any plea deals will be more punishment compared to what these people got. ken chesebro, he pleaded to a particular criminal act that implicated donald trump, the fake elector scheme, the documents themselves. the dominos are starting to fall, how m

john eastman, mark meadows, jeff clark. so, you know, one by one, these sort of more minor people, even though she was right in the middle of it, are now not only available, they have said they will testify against the others, jake. >> all right, jamie gangel, thanks so much. >>> coming up next from israel, what cnn is learning about how hamas used specific technology to plan its october 7th attacks. nice footwork. man, you're lucky, watching live sports never used to be this easy. now you can stream all your games like it's nothing. yes! [ cheers ] yeah! woho! running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. >>> welcome to "the lead," i'm jake tapper. >> i'm looking ought over tel aviv. it is almost midnight and it has been 17 days since the hor ifric terrorist attacks by hamas caught this country and the world by surprise setting offer a cascade of responses and consequences that now includes a

ellis's is going to have impact on john eastman and rudy giuliani when she said that i wish i had not paid attention to other lawyers who are more senior than me, and they have more to fear at this point. >> and if she knew then what she knows now, she wouldn't have worked for the trump campaign, and i can guarantee you that this is something that trump who is headed to another new york courtroom did not want to hear. >> and now, with this jenna ellis plea deal, it has to do with the aiding and the abetting of the false brwriting and it h to do specifically with the georgia legislative subcommittee where rudy giuliani is there, and i did false stuff, but how threatening is that to rudy giuliani? >> i think it is very effective and she relied on him, and saying that there were multiple lawyers who had greater expert experience and expertise on them, and she wished she hadn't, and so it is pointing finger squarely at giuliani and increases pressure on him, and not clear to any circumstances that giuliani would cooperate, and perhaps he would enter a guilty plea at some point, and this i

in open cord, chesebro admitted to expiring with trump and rudy giuliani and john eastman to subvert the electoral college process. as part of the plea deal, he'd agreed to plead to one felony count. he has also agreed to testify in future hearings. he faces up to five years of probation and $5,000 in fines an resitution. he will also have to write an apology letter. but it is notable that as a first time offender, in the state of georgia, it is expected that if he complies with the terms of his probation, this will be wiped from his record. if he fills out an application on monday, he does not have to say that he's been convicted of a felony. so these have been some pretty good deals for defendants. we expect there to be additional flee dieplea deals. i spoke with sources familiar with the trump legal team thinking, they are shrugging off the plea deals but missing out on an opportunity to preview the case down in fulton county which is what they hoped would happen if these two individuals went on trial. as of now there is no date set for former president trump or any of the other 1

those are some of the biggest names in this case, mark meadows, rudy giuliani, john eastman and, of course, donald trump himself, so no offers of guilty pleas for those four from the georgia prosecutors at that time. sfwhofl. >> stay with us. i want to bring in our legal be a lifts. joe, what's your reaction of the stunning development of trump taking the stand in new york, the civil fraud trial, what's your reaction to the latest developments? >> well, wolf, we've been watching how donald trump has struggled with the gag order. he was already fined once. now you had this statement again where the judge, and it is humiliating for the former president, putting donald trump on the stand. donald trump claims he was talking about michael cohen, but, wolf, michael cohen was not sitting alongside the judge. cohen was sitting a distance away and below the judge. that was clearly a reference to the judge's clerk and the judge found that trump was not credible. this is going to be a continuing problem. very a gag order issue going on in the d.c. federal case as well. donald trump's own words could

this here in this case, you are seeing a lot of attorneys getting implicated from john eastman, formery for president trump, and rudy giuliani. all these individuals. that's quite significant. they can provide firsthand testimony about things they saw, they overheard, and if prosecutors aren't satisfied with the evidence that's provided, they just can yank this plea deal and put these folks to trial. >> what does it mean to donald trump? she was in this all-important meeting and intent is a part of this. that could speak to where donald trump's mindset is on this. >> it can. remember what's the nature of the attorney/client relationship. they were probably communicating with each other freely under the assumption that they were speaking truthfully and things they said to each other won't come out. now because they were potentially engaging in the acts of a crime, all that now is available to the public. so i think it could be firsthand assuming it's accurate and truthful and the prosecutors are satisfied with what they hear, it could be incredibly valuable evidence about the state of m

georgia what does that mean for trump or for his codefendants on team crazy, rudy giuliani, and john eastmanand more to the point, what does it mean for jack smith, the special counsel who is overseeing the federal election subversion case against donald trump? neil katyal and anna bowers will join me next to talk about the implications of this potentially seismic development. stay with us. seismic development. stay with us >>> do you understand the state is asking that you truthfully testify at all hearings and proceedings in trials involving the codefendants in this matter and that you have no communication with codefendants, media, or witnesses until this case has been completely closed against all defendants? >> i do. >> that was donald trump's former lawyer sidney powell in court today pleading guilty to six misdemeanor counts just days before what was supposed to be the start of her criminal trial for election interference in fulton county, georgia. as you just heard one of the conditions of this plea is that she truthfully testify at all hearings, proceedings, and trials against the 1

again, i invoke the oval office meetings and while chesebro maish is more threat to john eastman andgiuliani and the lawyers who were advising trump. sidney powell is privy to conversations one-on-one with the president about what was taking place during that time period. >> and this is classic trump. someone gets close to him and gets in trouble and could implication him, i don't know him or her. that is what he said and does. >> i this i there are two things going on here that should be keeping donald trump up at night. one, is you look at the calendar and it is just extraordinary how besieged he is with court appointments and these legal obligations and so you think about the 2024 general election coming up, that takes away a lot of time for him to be able to make any kind of case for himself as a candidate and second, to your point, these are not peripheral characters that we're talking about. a sidney powell or a chesebro, these are people that could make the difference between there being evidence or not being evidence to make the case against donald trump and i think for a lon

have direct evidence against donald trump, but he has direct evidence against rudy giuliani and john eastmanf the two of them, it's not a good day because they are both reported to be unindicted coconspirators in the federal case. they are indicted conspirators in the georgia case. and they are now somebody with direct evidence who can testify against them. and as barbara said, what he has pled, to unlike what sydney powell pled to, is something that is core to the january 6th scheme. he has now admitted, as part of his guilty plea, that he was part of a scheme to defraud the voters of georgia, to overturn their votes in the presidential election. >> that is central to the georgia indictment. amy lee copeland, i think we have you back, we fix the issue. let me ask you about, everybody involved in the georgia case has done every whatever they could to save their case, moved to federal court, and now there are a bunch of people who are gonna go to trial. what does the fact that this is happened in the last few days mean for the rest of that trial? >> well, as barb mentioned. this is great. the

justice clarence thomas recused himself from a case monday involving former trump legal adviser john eastmano formally served as a law clerk for thomas. this follows reports that thomas's wife, the republican activist ginni thomas, corresponded with eastman ahead of the january 6 insurrection about reversing the election to keep trump in power. justice thomas did not recuse himself from a case back by new york landlords challenging the city's rent stabilization policies. the anticorruption group wrote in response, "justice thomas' billionaire benefactor harlan crow has an interest in weakening rent control laws to buttress his real estate empire's profits." on capitol hill, republican florida congressmember introduced a resolution monday to remove speaker kevin mccarthy from his leadership position. gaetz and other far-right republicans for averting a shutdown. gaetz and other far-right republicans have accused mccarthy of making a “secret ukraine side deal” with democrats which mccarthy denies. vice president kamala harris is swearing in a new member of california's senate delegation today,

he said i'm guilty of count 15 of the indictment which implicates donald trump, rudy giuliani, john eastmanile a fake elector certificate knowing that that was not a truce. so your client may have gotten a probationary deal, but at this stage he has admitted that the big lie was a lie and that everything he was doing was not right. >> yes, i'd like to push back, respectfully, on you katie. first of all, mr. chesebro never believed in the big lie. if you ask him, who won the 2020 presidential election? he says joe biden. you referred to -- i know you are quoting the district attorney's office and others but you referred to him as the architect of the fake elector scheme. i want to be clear about something, while yes, this is a facility he pled guilty to, it was the r.i.c.o. that accused him of being the architect of the fake elector scheme. . i want to ask you and all of your listeners, katie, for one moment to think about this question. if mr. chesebro was the architect of the fake elector scheme, if mr. chesebro was the architect of some plan to bring down democracy, which is what i've hea

the supreme court denied an appeal brought by former donald trump legal adviser john eastman.tured a rare accusal from conservative justice clarence thomas. eastman served as a law clerk to the justice, but thomas did not explain the decision to recuse himself. eastman was trying to appeal a ruling that allowed the january 6th committee access to his emails. >>> construction began today to convert adolf hitler's austrian birth place into a police station with a human rights training center. the project is meant to make it an unattractive place to visit for people who glorify the nazi dictator. police are expected to move into the converted home in early 2026. >>> and simone biles is back and she's already breaking gymnastics record. she became the first woman to land a highly complicated vault in international competition sunday at the world artist gymnastics championship. this marked biles' first international competition since she pulled out of multiple events in the tokyo olympics two years ago, sara. i don't know if i heard this right, but i heard they named that move afte

looks like guys like john eastman might be the next to fall once kenneth chesebro, the other architect of the fake elector scheme fell, so she's executing the rico play book brilliantly, and, joy, it's all going to the benefit of jack smith's prosecution in d.c. >> and susan, to go back, because you've got that case happening, but then in new york, it's sort of -- trump has already essentially lost the case. it doesn't seem to be changing what he's doing in court and his strategy. to michael cohen's point, the only question left is how much he has to pay. is there any reporting on whether his lawyers are having some discomfort with his strategy, which seems to me to undermine the end result? >> well, it's interesting because i think a lot of this is definitely performative, but there is another audience here, and it's the appellate court. they're going to appeal this, and i think they're laying the groundwork for that on a number of fronts. i think that that is an important audience because at a certain point, he wants to run out the clock. he wants to drag this as long as he can throu

of the roles that they both played in being really in part the legal architects in addition to john eastmanof the scheme to overturn the election results that trump tried to execute and implement in the lead up to january six. they were privy to a lot of emails, some of which we have already seen. communications between all of these different french players who trump was able to put together as this half hazard team of outside advisers who were existing him and this effort. they were coming in and out of the white house. they're in a closed-door meetings. they were privy to a lot of things that had not yet been unearthed that now prosecutors probably have access to. so i think whether trump and his advisers are actually concerned, they are still going to continue to put up the facade that their guy and the de facto leader of the republican party is not scared of what they might ultimately be able to tell jack smith and fani willis. >> okay. well at least for now. jacqueline alemany, it's good to see you my friend. appreciate it. next, how president biden made history this week. plus, whethe

rudy giuliani and john eastman?he point, what does he mean for jackson, with who special counsel who is overlooking the case against donald trump? neil cattle will and anna bowers will join me next to discuss the implications of this potentially seismic development. stay with us. h us but i'm protected with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can be serious for those over 60, including those with asthma, diabetes, copd, and certain other conditions. but i'm protected. arexvy is proven to be over 82% effective in preventing lower respiratory disease from rsv and over 94% effective in those with these health conditions. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy. having

>> what he's being indicted for ultimately is following legal advice from an esteemed scholar, john eastman. >> everything that mr. trump requested to be done was done with the advice of counsel, was done with lawyers giving him advice. >> you're entated to believe and rust the advice of counsel. >> that is a current trump lawyer who has been involved in the defense in the jack smith case, the classified documents case and the coup case there, so he's been poring over documents that include powell. powell is a trump attorney. her pleading saying she'll cooperate and that there were crimes undercuts that advice of counsel defense in the rico case. because she's convict of one crime. she got out from under the others. her testimony can bolster the prosecutor's point that this was trump's plot, that he had criminal intent, that he, they say, was informed on all this, and went forward to do it. not the advice of counsel defense that he was sitting around and lawyers advised him to do things. that was the way of direction. was it his intent and a bad thing, or was it someone else's idea, and a l

really going to be sort of forced to have to say something that could implicate rudy giuliani, john eastmanst indirectly donald trump, i think is mr. chaz burrow. because he pled to the fake elector scheme, and that is so core to what happened on january 6th and the lead up to january six. so i think that's why it his guilty plea is sort of essential there and potentially more important with respect to proving donald trump's criminal liability. >> neil, trump's legal team is downplaying all of this, no surprise. but these two had a lot of access. andrew referenced some of it. and you are familiar with where they were in different times, if the prosecutors, what is most valuable to them, what they want most from these two places? >> first of, all i think it's hard to distinguish between who was more important than who, it is kind of like asking whether the height or the width of a square is more relevant to those square. i mean, both are enormously significant, and both are of course trump attorneys. they are not attorneys like andrew or me. these are a, maga trump attorneys who are saying,

john eastman, donald trump, and rudy giuliani. >> so anna, let's talk about that.ro's attorney was on with my colleague katie fan earlier today, and that's where he met his comments. what are some of the other lawyers for these other defendants, remember, there were 19 folks initially charged in this conspiracy case. what are they saying, what are your sources telling you about the concern of these pollydale? 's because these are not low-level. folks sydney powell was at the top. she wasn't all the, masons on all the, emails as was kenneth chesebro. >> right, so i think catherine is exactly right. i've heard also, steve sago has echoed what scott grubman, can chesbrough's attorney wasn't this morning on katie phang's show. he said it is significant, you know, the r.i.c.o. charge was dismissed for example. but that's actually just not how that rico case even works. you kind of have to understand a little bit about the theory of culpability here, right? you have to show this group of remaining defendants, now it's 16 people, they have formed an enterprise. and enterp

2020 and january 6 of 2021, the defendant and co-conspirators donald john trump, rudy giuliani, john eastmansmith, robert can cancheeley to falsely hold themselves out as the duly elect and qualified electors for the president and vice president from georgia following the november 3, 2020 presidential election. the objectives included, to recruit certain individuals to falsely hold themselves out as the qualifies presidential electors from georgia, to create false electoral college documents, including a false certificate of vote purported to have been made by the authority of the duly elected and qualified presidential electors from georgia, to falsely state that co-conspirator donald john trump had won all of georgia's electoral college votes, and to deliver those false documents to georgia secretary of state, the chief judge of the northern district of georgia, the archivist of the united states, and the president of the united states citizen being the vice president. the purpose of creating these and delivering this false documents were to disrupt and delay the joint session of congress

attorneys at law who were making legal arguments in court or at least urging in the case of john eastman an interpretation of the electoral counts act, and i'm wondering whether you see a real chilling effect, not only in terms of election challenges but attorneys zealously representing their clients and making arguments which ultimately did not prevail in court on behalf of their client. >> i will jump in. i'm sure the others have something to say on this. let me group together the jack smith/january 6 indictment and fani willis, rico indictment in georgia. fundamentally, i think there is a real problem with these indictments in that they are attempting to criminalize statements made, positions taken, advocacy that, for the most part, are protected by the first amendment. protected both as expressions of speech, free speech, but also efforts to petition the government for redress of grievances which is also protected as a core right in the first amendment. the trump campaign was endeavoring to urge state legislators and officials to take another look at the campaign results, the electio

deal in fani willis's georgia election interference case and what does it mean for rudy giuliani, john eastman, and yes, donald trump? that is next. stay with us. teeth sensitivity is so common. it immediately feels like somebody's poking directly on the nerve. i recommend sensodyne. sensodyne toothpaste goes inside the tooth and calms the nerve down. and my patients say you know doc, it really works. are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters and calms the nerve down. keep your laundry smelling fresh waaaay longer than detergent alone. if you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks, make sure you have downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ get it with gurus. cargurus. ♪ i wanna hold you forever ♪ hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't.

clients about whatever deals they still have on the table, particularly if you are the attorney for john eastmanliani, someone who is very high up and has a lot to lose. >> fulton county, georgia case is similar to the federal case for election interference. but it is a tale of two prosecutions. the federal case is streamlined, naming only one defendant with a goal, obviously, getting the truth quickly as possible. but look at the strategy and the fulton county prosecutors. it was a bit of a gamut and it appears to be paying off. and it's this, look, as a defense attorney, i criticize prosecutors for doing this kind of thing sometimes. you tell me what you think. you charge, you know, a couple of dozen defendants, including low level people. and you count on some of them saying, hey, whoa, i was just a small fish. i don't want to ruin my life over this. let's talk prosecutors, and then appears to be what has happened at least with the four that have pleaded guilty so far, they've gotten good deals, probation only. i mean, that is the gold standard for a deal. and they're going to cooperate. and

specific count that he pled guilty to says that he conspired with donald trump, rudy giuliani, john eastmanle a false statement under the election count act. that fall statement was at the 16 people who signed those so-called alternate elector certificates were, in fact, the letters from the state of georgia when they were not. all along, chesebro and others, including the former president, have claimed that, we call them fake elector certificates, that they were legitimate in some way or another, that they were being prepared if trump won a lawsuit or something like that. his attorneys have made that argument over and over again >> i want to talk about fani willis as well. i think a lot of people saw this coming. she is continuing along with this case. republicans promised to take action against her by using this newly formed commission. it was approved by republican governor brian kemp back in may and it was created to make it easier to oust progressive dgas. before this commission began, at the start of this month you actually told rachel maddow there was 100% chance republicans would fi