joyce vance former u.s. attorney now an msnbc contributor. with us at the table, jonathan lemire, associated press white house reporter and sliding in as only he can do, john heilman is back. got sechlt entitles i'm nven ti to read because i didn't think he would be here. if you could, underscore the significance of learning that donald trump was aware months before the election of these hush money payments to karen mcdougal. >> in early november of 2016, w "the wall street journal" wrote an article about the payment. they said it was news to them. what the article shows is the president clearly knew about it at the time. this is something michael cohen updated him on in september. he was briefed on what was going on. this is obviously something they were trying to do to keep this quiet leading up to the election. it now raises these legal questions, whether there were campaign finance violations or campaign finance laws that were broken because these payments were made and they were not disclosed and done in secret. >> we've had a lot of con

but explain to me -- >> if joyce can explain that, that will be the ding ding ding of the day. >> joycen to me, first of all, it sounds like she said she would appear and answer questions. so perhaps she avoids being subpoenaed. i understand that to be a tool you use if a witness is unwilling. but also explain what heilman is alluding to, this idea that around roger stone is sort of a crushing effort to learn everything from everyone that may have seen something or known something about his contacts with russians. >> so i agree with heilman. you know, it looks like roger stone's time in the barrel is just about upon him. he has not been interviewed, which as we've discussed previously is a strong indication that he's a target of this investigation. and i would add to john's questions about roger stone, in my mind the biggest unknown is what was stone communicating to trump about this entire process he was involved with guccifer in? were they conferring about it regularly? did trump know the details? if so, this looks a lot more ominous. so it seems likely that mueller is tying down his

>> joyce, let me bring you in. we've all witness and had watched the slow motion train wreck that is rudy giuliani and donald trump's character assassination against jim comey. but it seems like that effort would be trickier with our sitting attorney general who as mike and his colleague maggie haberman layout in their piece, really does touch all three of these, you know, examples where bob mueller wanted to show private conduct. he also asked him to reverse his recusal so that he could go back into the investigation and defend him. he attacked him publicly. and there's the tweet. how do you see this all coming together if you're putting together an obstruction case? >> it is tricky because it's not enough to try to abuse sessions publicly, to demean his character. the president actually has to do any one of a number of specific things. that can be somehow influence sessions, if sessions is a witness, to keep him from testifying truthfully. or perhaps to get him to alter documentary evidence, or even to take the m

joyce, bringing you back on this right now. so the president wants a one on one with vladamir putin to take place less than a week from now. that means it's the president and vladamir putin and nobody else to keep on eye what happens between the two of them. >> this shows that the president is not listening to anyone on his staff. certainly no one on the intelligence side of the house. it opens up so much possibility of misconduct occurring. it leaves the united states open, you can take your pick of the sorts of untoward consequences that could result from this sort of unstructured, undocumented meeting. >> i'm sorry to interrupt, but he called these staffers stupid. why do staffers stick around? >> the idea that they wouldn't tender their resignations after being called stupid defies relief. surprised we haven't seen it after these comments leaked. >> he says he only hires the best people. so if these are stupid people, what does it say about the boss? >> that's right, this is more telling that donald trump is about his staff

attorney and msnbc contributor, joyce vance, katie and navid jamali. kate, do you think the timing help bolster president trump in some of his allies' views that the mueller investigation is actually a conspiracy to undermine the administration? >> i think that the president and his allies will look for absolutely anything to be able to find a conspiracy, so of course you could say the timing did help them with that. but the timing is also fascinating because it shows that the justice department in particular has a lot of cards to play and that while president trump can win the short-term pr battle by attacking the mueller investigation, the mueller investigative team can always come back with hard facts that support them that will be remembered long after the president's complaints are done. >> joyce, what about the fact that the americans that were listed in the indictments were not actually named? what does that tell you? >> it doesn't really tell us a lot because doj policy is not to name people who are unindicted co-conspirators. so this indictmen

times" and joyce vance, a former u.s. attorney, professor of the alabama law school and an msnbc contributor. joyce, i want to start with you because credibility is everything when it comes to prosecuting a case. talk to me about the credibility issues that prosecutors are going to face with michael cohen and with donald trump. >> this is a classic sort of a he said/he said dispute, and so what prosecutors like to do as they prepare a case is look for evidence that tends to corroborate what their witnesses are saying. there is some reporting that says that cohen has no evidence to back up his willingness to testify in this regard, but there is some circumstantial situations that prosecutors can pursue to try to buttress his testimony. for instance, there is this phone call that don jr. allegedly made around the time that he had conversations with arissa golorov. they could get phone records. there is the statement donald trump makes two days before this meeting takes place where he promises something big coming with the c

to joyce's point, the tape is ambiguous on a couple points. it is not a smoking gun in and of itself. look how lanny davis, michael cohen's lawyer is characterizing it. he's the one that brought up john edwards in an interview with katy tur. he said it was a payment made to squelch coming up in his campaign. a willful failure to disclose a campaign contribution is a felony punishable by five years in prison. the prosecutor going to make that case against the president the of the united states? i don't know. it seems like they were willing to make it against a former senator john edwards, it's a big issue. >> phil rucker, i want to know if the state of mind that the president displayed on the day of the cohen raid where he described the raid of his former lawyer's offices and homes as an attack on the nation is still the current white house position. was the raid on michael cohen's offices and homan attack on the country? >> well, that's what the president thought at the time, but since then there's been a real rupture in the relationship. and

also joining us is joyce vance. both are msnbc contributors. joyce, i do want to start with you. can you help us understand this idea that it could have been privileged and then waived and where that means this evidence stands now for prosecutors? >> so the context for this evidence coming to light was the search of michael cohen, which produced a lot of documentary evidence. and he was the first one to raise this idea that some of it was privileged because he was a lawyer and that trump as the client would have attorney-client privilege to atert, too. both trump and cohen's lawyers went through the documents and designated certain items as privilege. that was subject to review by a retired mag strait judge who the district judge brought in. the reason all of that background matters, katie, is because somehow we have shifted from this process where trump and cohen were asserting that these documents were protected by the attorney-client privilege to this point where we're told tonight, they decided we'll go ahead and waive it and put it out there even though the judge found in ou

jewish -- joyce started the closet a few years ago. >> sometimes they have nothing, not even schools -- not even shoes. then you have to scramble to the store. >> reporter: she knows this process well after having fostered more than 40 children. she chairs the fundraising program. nonprofits partners help stock the closet with the latest trends such as ugg boot. >> they were happy to get the ugg boots. >> reporter: there's backpack and toy giveaways as well. >> she is a go-getter, the mother of all. e isspiration, but she's ready to retire. -- 68, joyce is an inspiration, but she's ready to retire. >> and it will continue on and not and when i leave. >> reporter: for continuing the lives -- improving the lives of foster children, joyce ryder gets the jefferson award this week. they especially have back-to- school clothing. if you would like to help out, you can find a link to our story on our website at kpix.com/0. this is also where you can nominate someone for a jefferson award. >>> today's tip of the day is going to be flamingo pairs. i like the name flamingo pair. texture, out of

attorney and msnbc contributor joyce vance. joyce, i'll start with you on what we just saw.nd i know you were paying attention to it over the course of the week. it was really, i thought, a remarkable display for them to so publicly attack rosenstein. >> it was incredible. this was the deputy attorney general, the number two guy in the justice department, testifying under oath and being accused of lying by a member of congress. while that deputy attorney general is in the middle of supervising the turnover to congress of an unprecedented level of documentation in an ongoing investigation. >> and the president has -- he did an interview with maria bartiromo of facts and talked about why he -- or how his involvement is coming to be. we'll take a look the about it, and paul butler i'll ask you about t. >> are you going to ask them to get those documents over to congress? >> i may get involved. i've been told by so many people don't get involved. it's not good. and they'll get the documents and it's getting and they're getting them, and they're great people. i didn't like the sc

beach drive, up to joyce road is open.t the north, joyce road to the maryland line, is closed. the entroect is expected to be finished by fall of next year. >>> we're counting down to the all-star game. one week to go and we'll tell you how you can put another player on the roster. >>> police are calling him a photo being shared worldwide this morning. this morning. up n (birds chirping, a runng brook,) this morning. up n ahh. the new deer park sparkling is made with real spring water. ♪ re it's so freshing and delicious, you don't need slo-mo models to sell it. real sprinwater, real fruit flavors and refreshing bubbles. just what's refreshing real. >>> you're watching "news 4 today." >> 6:40 right now. delaware state police say three children and two adults were found dead inside a me. this is a look at the scene in wilmington. troopers say they got to the house before 8:00 and discovered that all of the victims were wot. the three childree all under the age of 8. >> very sad. >>> it is a picture of a tiny survivor who be

attorney joyce vance. editor in chief, ben. and national political reporter for nbc news.com, jonathan allen. gang, three things i want to talk about here. number one, what this tape does and does not tell us. number two, the questions coming up next. number three, where michael cohen goes from here. let me start with the significance of this recording. what we have learned from this. there are folks who might hear it and say, no big deal. it appears donald trump knew of this arrangement to try to silence mcdoug karen mcdougal. it appears he wanted to kill that until after the election, with the use of the word "delay." and hope hicks, who was the white house communications director, knowingly or unknowingly lied about the deal in the days before the election. she was either lied to or she actively lied when she came out with that statement. joyce, to you, legally, what kind of exposure does the president have now? >> i'm not sure that this tape changes anything dramatically. it is one piece of evidence. it is a very interestin

the yellow strip, that's beach road, between broad branch to joyce road northwest.t's a mile and a half of roadway that will reopen in time for tuesday morning. the black line above that, that's the final stage o construction here. that's next in line to shut down, as well, tomorrow. that's beach drive to the d.c./maryland line. it should reopen by the fall of 2019, more or what are crews doing? they're not just resurfacing. theyine also milwauk adjustments in draining systems and trees, as well. they need all ofy the time t can use to get the work done. a lot of updates to bring you, as well. the national parkservice say if you want the real-time updates, text beach drive to 888777. that wil give you the progress on beach drive. i'm jtin finch, news 4, back in to you. thank you. >>> new this morning, a major annocement from starbucks. the coffee company is doing away with its green straw. all of the stores will begino st using single-use plastic straws later this year. the company will use drawless lids. starbucks hopes to eliminate straws from all of its cafes glo

if true, joyce, what does that mean? >> long-standing d.o.j. policy holds that the justice department should not indict a sitting. . i still don't think we'll see mueller's team depart from that policy. this reporting if it holds up is clear proof that the president has engaged in, at a minimum, a could haveup of russia's efforts to interfere with our election. this is a broad mandate for folks on the hill to pick up this information and to make a determination whether the president's conduct is something that violates the oath he took to uphold the constitution. >> joyce vance, this is why we have you on the broadcast. thank you so much for clear and concise answers as with we are all reacting to what we've read in the pages of the new york times tonight and elsewhere. another break for us. coming up, he was vice chairman of the senate intelligence committee following the collapse of the soviet union. senator bob kerry also talk to us acts the relationship between donald trump and vladimir putin and the u.s. and russia when we return. . >>> i

joining me now, nbc justice correspondent pete williams and msnbc contributor joyce vance, a former u.s. attorney. this is filed by department of justice prosecutors and not robert mueller, pete. what more can you tell us? >> right. she was arrested and lives in washington, d.c. she's accused of secretly acting under the direction of a russian government official joining the nra, hoping to influence american politicians, especially republicans. the charges say she hosted dinners, she attended conventions, she even managed to get her russian handler into the national prayer breakfast last year here in washington. the fbi said she was getting orders from him. he's a former russian legislator and top official of the central bank. her lawyer says she's not a russian agent but she's offered to cooperate, that she testified for eight hours before the senate intelligence committee. but as you point out, these charges are not brought by the mueller team. they were developed by the fbi here in washington. she's had a high profile for the last year or so so she easily came to the attention of the

so here, you know, to go back to joyce's point, we understand more now. if donald trump was told about this meeting, it means he was told that russia wanted to help him secretly. and here he is now publicly communicating with russia say, hey, this is how i want you to help. i mean, collusion, conspiracy, obstruction, coverup, all these narratives which intertwine are bolstered by michael cohen's account if true. >> and so jennifer when david lays it out like that, it's chilling because the more benign earlier interpretations that were available were lower-level people did this, or everyone's an idiot, and they didn't really understand all the meetings they were going to. by the way, idiot defenses can work in the law. it's not a crime to be stupid and go to the wrong meeting. what david lays out when you put these pieces together, according to cohen's theory of the case. we always can report there will be denials, there will be other perspectives. but according to cohen's theory of the case, you're adding testimonial evidence that suggests, no, they weren

thank you for being here, joyce. we have a president who has held his financials very close to the vest to say the least. what are the chance that this lawsuit sheds some light on them? >> this lawsuit looks very promising. the emoluments lo s clause mak illegal for the president to except from a foreign state or foreign government and from the very beginning, the federal government has taken a somewhat ingenuous approach to the emollmeemoll me emollyouments loss. saying that the court can go forward with discovery and that trump's business records have to be preserve and that this case can progress fairly speedily against trial and may ultimately be very damaging to the president and private business efforts. >> in fact, the judge said that the constitutional framers understood the team to have a broader meaning applying to any profit, gain, or advantage whatsoever. i want to go back to the press conference. i'm sure you remember that one that happened about ten days or so before the inauguration. when the president

attorney joyce vance. matt, i do want to start with you. given that donald trump today called this a witch hunt and given that rod rosenstein briefed him on this indictment days ago, what does that say to you about how seriously donald trump is taking this investigation? >> he's taking it seriously. in one way i think he's always taken this seriously in that he's been very concerned about it. he's clearly been concerned about the aspects that relate to him, the obstruction of justice aspects that he's under investigation for. and the other part of it, he's never taken seriously. he's never taken this seriously as an attack on the united states. he cares about anything that might affect him. he cares about implications of wrongdoing of people close to him, around him. whenever it is discussed as an attack on the united states, an attack on our democracy, an attack on our free and fair elections, you see his defensiveness from him and this need to lash out against the investigators. and it is remarkable, i think, that days after he was briefe

joyce, let's start with you. what does it mean robert mueller is expanding his team but he's going to the u.s. justice department for career lawyers. is that relevant? >> it's interesting. part of it may be resources. he's getting ready to launch the manafort trial, and he may feel the need to bring more bodies onboard to manage all the pieces of the investigation. it could also signal he's thinking about spinning off pieces of the case or there are matters that aren't so central to the trump-russia campaign relationship. and one of the details is that mueller is tapping investigators in pittsburgh. and that's interesting because pittsburgh is a venue where they've gone in the past for the chinese hacking case, and this could signal prominence for cyber crime and hacking. >> last week the testimony of rosenstein in that congressional hearing got very hot. trey gowdy, one of the lead republicans of the e-mail investigation into hillary clinton, really, really encouraged rosenstein to wrap this investigation up. do

attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years a as federal prosecutor. joyce, if this isn't crazy, it will due until crazy gets here as they say. what strikes you about this case of this young woman again who was apparently fixing to leave town? >> you know, it looks that way and looks like we're finally getting to watch that season of the americans that the producers wouldn't run because it seemed too farfetched, right? >> yeah. >> all joking aside, i think this is a very serious case but not currently being handled but mueller's team, it looks like a case that could end up there or be a companion case because of the serious nature of allegations russians were trying to influence the nra and we know $30 million in money funneled out of the nra into the presidential campaign more than the nra ever contributed so there are serious questions that need to be answered here. >> i know you're not a political analyst, if that's proven, if russian money was in an nra pool, you got all these people running for reelection in the midterms whose opponents can say my

she's the mother of all so to speak. >> at 68, joyce is an installation, but she's ready -- inspiration, but she's ready to retire so other foster parents will take over the closet. >> then it will continue on and not end when i leave. >> for helping to improve the lives of foster children in alameda county, this jefferson award goes to joyce rider. time for us to call it a mornin you for watchin . >>> we're taking one last check of weather. we are cloudy along the coast and cool but warm inland today. temperatures are in the 50s along the coast, 60s for most spots inland. we will be warming up but we'll keep some of that coastal fog around for much of the day. seasonal temperatures 80s and 90s inland. sunny for most, foggy along the coast. we're looking at hot temperatures inland. temperatures flirting with triple digits for places like clear lake and sacramento, closer to home, we are relatively mild and seasonal. >> and it's time for us to call it a morning. thank you for watching kpix5 news this morning. >> we'll be here tomorrow morning at 6:00. enjoy your saturday. narrator: today

let me go first to you, joyce. yeah. >> there's a difference between political pressure and legal pressure. barb and i have both been involved in public corruption and white collar cases. they are slow moving. it's surprising to see mueller produce the volume of indictments he has in just this period of time since he was appointed. particularly because these are complex cases that involve foreign actors. from a legal point of view, anyone who is scoring mueller would give him an a-plus for the amount of progress he's made. as you point out, the political side of the calculus is a little bit different. and there is a lot of pressure both from the hill and a desire in the public to see things move more rapidly than typically prosecutors would be able to conclude this sort of complex sort of a case. and it's made even more important with the approaching election. doj has a longstanding policy of not involving themselves in indictments or even in filing subpoenas too close to an election. things that could influence th

but i agree with joyce. there is no reason for michael cohen to do this in public or to even be saying this. i am a defense lawyer. i would never allow any client to do this on national tv. i really don't see what the upside is here at all. >> you know, i feel the same way. this whole thing has been such a strange excruciating story in the last few months. just excruciating in terms of watching it unfold and watching it unfold so publicly, joyce. i mean, it's a hard thing to think of a reference for because it's played out so publicly and it involves -- you know, it involves the sitting president of the united states. i've just never seen anything like this unfold in the public eye before. >> i just don't think that we have. and the really bizarre nature of cohen's relationship with trump, this asymmetric relationship where he calls the president mr. trump and trump speaks about him as well, you know, just one of my attorneys. you almost -- there's a little bit of pathos to cohen's position. >> yes. >> i thi

. >> joyce vance is with me. she is an msnbc contributor and former u.s. attorney.ce, let me start with you. let's get in the mind of michael cohen here a little bit. so much has changed over the course of the last week. there was the specter of there being tapes. tuesday we heard the tape. wednesday there was the first report here that michael cohen might be willing to say to his special counsel investigator that, in fact, donald trump now about the meeting at trump tower before it occurred. give us your sense of what he is thinking about, what he is weighing, what the options are for michael cohen if he were to played. >> cohen has sent a lot of signals this week that he is interested in cooperating with prosecutors. we don't know if he has had formal conversations or, frankly, even if prosecutors in southern district of new york are interested in taking a look at what cohen has to offer. but if they, in fact, are, it seems likely that cohen, who spent at least a decade of time with trump, watching the daily in and outs of his life, would be able to provide not ju

thank you so much, joyce vance and nina totenberg. >>> coming up, could a meeting with vladimir putin jeopardize president trump's nato summit before it begins? (♪) i'm a four-year-old ring bearer with a bad habit of swallowing stuff. still won't eat my broccoli, though. and if you don't have the right overage, you could be paying for that pricey love band yourself. so get an allstate agent, and be better protected from mayhem. like me. can a ring bearer get a snack around here? you always get the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed?m let's get someone to say it with a really low voice. carl? lowest price guaranteed. what about the world's lowest limbo stick? how low can you go? nice one, carl. hey i've got an idea. just say, badda book. badda boom. badda book. badda boom. nice. always the lowest price, guaranteed. book now at choicehotels.com >>> the kremlin announced today that if both sides agree, president trump and president putin could actually meet privately without their aides before the start of that official summit in helsinki. the summit is set to take place less than two

joyce and aaron, thank you for your time. julia, you have exclusive new reporting on those migrant children who have been separated from their parents. and also coming up, president trump waging a war against our own allies, fighting them on trade and tweeting the need to fix some of the worst and unfair trade deals. has the president's finally pushed republicans on their breaking points. the year of the woman. record breaking women running for the house as roe v wade happening in the balance. >>> the trump says the media has it wrong. negotiations are going well. round table is going to tell us three things we may not know. this is "hardball" where the action is. when you combine ancestry's dna test with its historical records... you could learn you're from ireland donegal, ireland and your ancestor was a fisherman. with blue eyes. just like you. begin your journey at ancestry.com . >>> welcome back to "hardball" the crisis on the border deepens. according to a copy of a government form obtained exclusively. julia, take us t

msnbc contributor joyce vance and former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor charlie savage, washington correspondent for "the new york times" and nbc intelligence and national security reporter ken dilanian and pete williams at the white house. pete, what happened in the pretrial hearing? >> well, it's still going on, andrea. and it's going to be going on later this afternoon on some other issues that paul manafort wants to raise about how much evidence can be admitted about the work he did for ukraine. but today the argument has been for the last hour and a half or so about whether this trial should be delayed. it's scheduled to start on wednesday with jury selection and probably opening statements on friday. but manafort's defense lawyers told judge t.s. ellis just a short time ago that they've been basically overwhelmed, swamped with 120,000 new pages of documents that the government has produced just within the past weeks. much of it from a personal computer, and other storage devices belonging to rick gates, the former mana

attorney joyce vance, both msnbc legal analysts.gnal in one direction or another from lanny davis. am i right? >> a signal because he hired lanny davis? >> that he hired lanny davis and the first thing lanny davis does under this new contract is essentially tweet a warning shot. >> yeah, he does, but this is not unusual. during the watergate investigation it was amazing how many nixon people actually went out and looked for democratic lawyers in order to try and appeal to this idea -- >> really? >> yes. that somehow they thought that by having something that's like former senator tidings represent them in our office they kind of bought into the idea that we were a bunch of kennedy democrats, which was not true. so they were hiring lawyers thinking they could appeal to us and somehow get a better in if they came in with these lawyers. you even saw jared kushner, he's retained the woman who was deputy attorney general under clinton. >> yeah. >> a democrat. >> i think it's the same sort of mindset, that people don't realize that what y

and joyce vance. let's start with peter. the report is fascinating. just because you do something in public doesn't make it legal or innocent. you can kill people in public and it is still murder. your thoughts >> it is striking that the things that he has said in public and said out loud, had they been in secret memos, people would say aha. a conduct or pattern of conduct that might be questionable or criminal. the fact that he says it out loud has gotten people desensitized. up front about what he thinks about sessions and about comey. trying to weave it together to see how it fits into a pattern. no single tweet or statement. whether you add it up, does it add up to witness tampering or impeding the investigation. >> demanding the loyalty of comey before firing. or let michael flynn off the hook or he said tell the public i'm not being targeted here. all of those demands we have learned he is doing. they could be potentially be, i'm asking you, obstruction of justice. >> peter is right. trump doing it in broad daylight has desensitized the public.

joyce, it sounds like he's saying the president's a target of this investigation. >> it does sound a little bit that way. and rudy gufl as a former u.s. attorney knows or should know that prosecutors don't like to give defendants and in fact, under the u.s. attorney's manual, do not give defendants whether they're targets or subject a clean bill of health because you don't know where the evidence might go in a case. but this was really damage forth president. you participated in that press conference where he called for russian participation. he then tried to cover up at least this one meeting in trump towers. and this really brings the obstruction case into focus because one of giuliani's complaints has been you can't obstruct if there's no underlying crime. well, now we're seeing whether trump is guilty or not, there was in fact underlying activity by russia and that really casts obstruction and trump's efforts to end the russia investigation into a whole new light. >> ken, matt, joyce vance, guys, thank you very much. frank, stick around with us. coming up in the wake of today's i

just excruciating in terms of watching it unfold and watching it unfold so publicly, joyce. i mean, it's a hard thing to think of a reference for because it's played out so publicly and it involves -- you know, it involves the sitting president of the united states. i've just never seen anything like this unfold in the public eye before. >> i just don't think that we have. and the really bizarre nature of cohen's relationship with trump, this asymmetric relationship where he calls the president mr. trump and trump speaks about him as well, you know, just one of my attorneys. you almost -- there's a little bit of pathos to cohen's position. >> yes. >> i think that we're about to see him become the next coffee boy in the trump administration. but the problem will be those 1.3 million documents now if the hands of sdny prosecutors. >> and also, nick, as i follow this story and i know you follow it very closely, there's a bunch of factual questions i'd love the answers to, which it seems the prosecutors have the answers to. did he go to prague or did he not? he said he didn't go

ready to retire so other foster parents like rendy will take over the closet fulfilling joyces dreamd continue on and not end when i leave. >> reporter: so for helping improvement the lives of foster children in alameda family, this week's jefferson award in the bay area goes to joyce rider. >> no surprise the association is always looking for donations of new items especially diapers and back to school clothes. if you would like to help, you can find a link in our story online at kpix.com/hero and that is also the place to nominate your local hero for a jefferson award. >> amazing lady and a great organization. >> it's a great program. great program. >> for news throughout the evening. the latest always cbssf.com. announcer: it's time to play "family feud." give it up for steve harvey! [cheering and applause] [captioning made possible by fremantle media] steve: hello. how y'all doing? hello, folks. i appreciate y'all. thank y'all. ha ha ha! appreciate that. thank y'all very much. thank you, folks. i appreciate that. yeah, i do. i appreciate y'all. well, welcome to "family feud," eve

>> first, joyce is on the money here. giuliani has not said anything that has come out to be true. it is spin, for the court of public opinion. for people to understand legally what has been asked by the president is imagine playing poker against someone. it is your turn to place a bet. if you show me all your cards, i will make my wager that is what is going on here. trump wants to see all the cards. the criminal discovery process doesn't start before the first interview happens. if this is accurate, we may be headed toward a subpoena. what i am fascinated by, both sides of this need this interview to happen in some way, mueller in terms of the court of public opinion needs it to happen more. trump is going to run around and say, i never had a chance to tell me story. they wouldn't let me tell my side of the story, we will hear that for months on end. at some point, mueller will pull the trigger and call his bluff. >> who do you think, franco, which side, who needs it more, the interview with the president? >> it is interesting to me, mueller is eager to speak with the president.

joyce vance thank you.'m so glad we tricked you into waking up early. >> it wasn't a trick it was a threat. >> the last word, week nights at 10:00 p.m. on msnbc. still ahead a federal judge has rejected president trump's latest effort to stop a lawsuit that alleges he's violating the constitution by continuing to do business with foreign governments. we're digging in to that new reporting when "morning joe" comes right back. are you ready to take your wifi to the next level? then you need xfinity xfi. a more powerful way to stay connected. it gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. it's the ultimate wifi experience. xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. >> look at those cameras. all those cameras. all these stops. this never happened to obama. this never happened to bush. this didn't happen. they just follow. they are dying to see us make a little bit of a mistake. they analyze every word. they say did

attorney and msnbc contributor joyce vance. joyce, how do you interpret these latest indictments and the president's take on extraditing the 12 russians charged and does that have anything to do with the fact it happened during the obama administration? the activity? the actions. >> the first part of your question, many of us in public have been trying to put together the evidence we're seeing reported by news outlets and add up the dots and many people aren't surprised to see this indictment coming down saying that russia hacked in essence with the intent to throw the election towards president trump in 2016. what's significant about the indictment is that federal prosecutors took the evidence and put in the front of a grand jury and that grand jury after considering the evidence did what prosecutors called returned a true bill giving prosecutors the permission to go forw5rd with that indictment. that means there is a serious quantum of proof to back up this evidence. it's not to be taken lightly at this stage. the president's

well if it was good enough for james joyce it should be good enough for any of us thank you so much for the it's been a pleasure thank you very much thank you. as well today the rock of gibraltar the strive for the world is pretty close to the continental europe part of the iberian peninsula i started here i'm only twelve miles from the top of africa each of these factors had a substantial influence in making up their communities of this fascinating territory one thing's for certain. period identity has been forged in times of adversity that's going to stand them in good stead and the interesting times ahead join us next week will be with you what the economy holds for the fascinating territory from all of us here at the show for from the whole of the crew it's good bye for. next week we voted overwhelmingly to remain in the e.u. and now we have to see what effect the hard drugs it could have been the gibraltar economy the reality is we haven't had a hard bragg's it scenario it was still in the e.u. we're still functioning. as we were doing in twenty sixteen we're a small number diversi

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describe to us is the say that james joyce never actually came here i didn't even manage the capture of us were even visiting gibraltar. obviously a man of genius. no doubt but obviously very well informed because he i think he was receiving sort of regular correspondence from people living i think an aunt of his living here and you both but it's something which i have difficulty in believing that he never came here well it was good enough for james joyce it should be good off for any of us and i did so much of it you know pleasure thank you very much thank you. i will help today the rock of gibraltar the strives for you out of its problems i posted the point of the europe part of the iberian peninsula to start me here i'm only twelve miles from the top of africa each of these factors how does substantial influence. and making up the diverse communities of this fascinating territory one thing's for certain period identity has been forged in times of adversity that's going to stand them in good stead and the interesting times ahead join us next week we'll be with you what the economy

joyce and her friends did imagine they will be doing this trying to convince people to vote for same sex marriage in a possible public vote but people don't seem to care not laying down now no one wants to take the leaflets paul says by a totally indifferent that's the situation with facing now. besides indifference society's also deeply divided but. i support bt. even the pope said homosexuality is something you're born with or. hasn't been going to legalization of same sex marriage will influence the moral fabric of the family i strongly disagree. taiwan's l.g.b. community is disappointed only a year back it seemed they were on their way to marriage equality. and. support had been strong and very visible for same sex marriages a landmark ruling by the highest court gave authorities two years to pass legislation that would have strengthened gay rights but with elections around the corner the government has been reluctant to do so. your main to support same sex marriage in taiwan she's candid about why the government is dragging its feet in the matter. the president doesn't did pass

joining us now, joyce vance who is kind enough to explain these things to me when they happen.ere tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> so first of all, should i see these two peas as being in the same pod? the keeping the identity of these five possible witnesses secret and under seal? and them being granted immunity in exchange for their testimony? do they always go together oris? >> you know, they don't always go together. they're two separate but related issues in this case. >> on the matter of immunity, prosecutors are saying that they couldn't -- these people are not people who've been mentioned in previous indictments, they've not been publicly described as being associated with the case, but they wouldn't testify unless they're granted immunity and they want the judge to grant something called use immunity in order to compel their testimony. what does that mean? >> so you can't be forced to testify against yourself. we all have a fifth amendment privilege that keeps us from incriminating ourselves with testimony. this means that mueller's lawyers believe that these five

as we will find out monday night the president's joyce, -- choice, what the digital roadblocks are there? david: there are fewer than in the past. this will be the first supreme court nomination in history that begins without any threat of a filibuster. those with longest memories who remember when neil gorsuch was nominated, when he was first nominated, the senate still had rules in place that allowed a 60-vote threshold for confirming a supreme court justice. along the way to gorsuch's confirmation, that filibuster threshold was done away with. so that potential for problems for president trump has gone away. now, that does not mean that the -- that a supreme court justice will be confirmed on a partyline vote, because the president has a handful of republicans he needs to worry about. we think principally susan collins, lisa murkowski, the two most moderate republicans who support abortion rights. we think also jeff flake and bob corker, two senators who are retiring and feel somewhat emboldened. so he needs to windows folks over. and at the same time if he cannot windows over, he nee

department and his strategy is to try the cases in the courtroom at the appropriate time. >> and, joyce, just one more thing. rod rosenstein said he told the president about this beforehand the last time he could have spoken to him in person would have been monday. based on everything you heard him say about the way he notified the president, do you believe he might have been able to do that on monday, anticipate what a grand jury could do on friday? >> i think so. you know, people love to say that prosecutors can indict a ham sandwich. i think that whoever simplifies. but in this case the government knew it had more than sufficient evidence for a grand jury to return a true bill and i would expect that mr. rosenstein would have briefed the president whenever they met in return. it wouldn't have had to be just this monday. it would have been stages along the way as this case progressed. >> we will have to get a break in here. when we come back, john podesta will join us. he will tell us what it felt like to read today's indictment description of how the russians targeted him, went after

joyce, you've been on the prosecution's side.f all, we went from jury selection, opening statements and our first witness in a day's work. a bunch of us didn't expect that much today. >> it's a surprise in the district of virginia with its notorious rocket docket. even trying to ferret out things and find for-cause strikes, jurors who might have reasons where prosecutors would haven't to exercise one of their voluntary strikes to have them excused so that process moved quickly with the jury being struck by the end of the morning and then moving on to the opening statements and now this first witness on the stand. >> let me is you this. i'm not a lawyer, i swear i don't play one on tv. it seems like things have gone in a standard way, is that a fair take? >> for someone not playing a lawyer on tv, you're doing a fine job. this is white collar 101. i wondered if we might not see a little bit more nuance, frankly, of a story about gates that they might not have portrayed him as down on his luck and being forced to plead because of h

. >> i take your nuance, joyce, very important.'re helping us understand this is probably hyperbolic and not real tampering. it would be a big deal for them to go out and accuse him of tampering. >> it absolutely would be. guiliani is operating on the narrow edge of ethical rules courts expect lawyers to follow. it's surprising to a lot of people the bar has not yet sanctioned him for some of this conduct. >> as you say, that is where there are real rules that apply to anyone who say there's the practicing attorney for the president or anyone else. then the privileged part important even though rudy talks about it in a sort of loose manner. take a listen. >> we have complained to them that he's violating the attorney-client privilege publicly and privately. >> why did you waive the attorney-client privilege for the cohen tapes. >> because if i didn't waive it i wouldn't be able to tell you he cuts it off, which he does, right after the word check. >> explain. >> it's very confusing. attorney client privilege is a rule once you let