lee in taipei. joyce, thank you. let's go to ukraine now, where europe's biggest nuclear power station has been shut down after shilling russia and ukraine to blaming each other for the attacks. the united nations nuclear watchdog is worried about the safety of the plant and local residents are living in fear of another chernobyl. russian rockettes hit several areas in the separation region in southeastern ukraine. this green hanger has been destroy it through no one of only beaches. our biggest storage unit is ruined. 3000 square meters, rural formula, sunflower seeds are gone. as politically separation is home to europe's largest nuclear power. plant quotient forces seized control of the power station in march just a week after the invasion or the ukrainian workers still run the plant. it's now in the middle of a war zone and t as in moscow, are accusing each other of shelling the facility. at least 3 strikes had power lines, forcing the closure of one of the reactors local residents feel both shelling and already

hey we're, we're joined by joyce lee joyce. give us the latest. what's the situation right now? so china regularly conducts military drew's near taiwan, but it has never tried to encircle with the island. the de facto

[chanting "joyce!"] "joyce!"] as well as my son, michael, his wife, and my grandchildren, allison and aaron. each of them. first, mr. patel. he is an exceptionally bright and committed young leader and this race was made stronger for his kenneth the. our city needs more leaders like his pushing its leaders to meet the needs of tomorrow. carolyn maloney and i have spent much of our adult lives working together to better both new york and our nation. i speak for everyone in this room tonight when i thanked her for her decades of service -- thank her for her decades of service. i stand before you tonight deeply humbled to be your democratic nominee for new york's 12th congressional district. [cheers] >> [chanting "jerry!"] rep. nadler: i am humbled by the way we worked together to achieve this victory. we won with votes on the eastside and westside, from gramercy to riverside, where the hard work of new yorkers young and old. we built a coalition made up of nurses in yorkville, and yes, may be a professor or two in t

joyce vance, can you pick it up from there? >> well, i'm not all the way through the affidavit, andrea, but i think one of the interesting bits of information we get early on tallies up with what you've just said about this assessment that there's national defense information to be found at mar-a-lago and further on in the affidavit we get a little bit of specificity about where in the espionage act doj is looking. they're looking at a provision in that subsection that doesn't necessarily refer to classified material. of course the former president has already fronted out this apparent defense effort that he somehow magically waved his wand and de classified everything. doj seems to be side stepping that fight and relying on a part of the espionage act that only requires them to prove that the information that he kept in his possession would be national defense adjacent information. and so that part of the legal rationale for doj's search begins to pop into clarity when we see this information. something that seems i think impo

attorney joyce vance. nbc news white house correspondent mike memoli, who's traveling with the president, president biden in south carolina. josh dawsey, political investigative reporter for the "washington post," along with jake sherman, co-founder of punchbowl news and msnbc political contributor. in talking about how long this is going to take, joyce, the modus operandi for former president donald trump in most of his legal dealings if not all of them is to delay. he often finds a way to delay. i imagine that his team would use the same strategy for this. i mean, they have been exploiting the lack of information right now, donald trump has, to his own advantage, claiming all sorts of baseless things like the fbi was potentially planing evidence at his house. >> doj has really put mr. trump on the horns of a dilemma here because he's the one who's accusing them of misbehavior. he's the one who's been on the offensive so far. he did that, one would suspect, thinking that doj would not respond. and now mer

joyce, sticking with you.s is the thing because of your back ground that i've been eager to talk to you about all day, there are all these people out there, some in bad faith and some in good faith saying the doj needs to be more transparent. this is a historic thing. it's unprecedented and there are conspiracy theories whipping around that the right is fuelling and there are people of good will that understand what is the basis of this, right? the doj needs to come clean. tell us why they're doing this and what the investigation is about and what evidence they have, et cetera, et cetera, and i find myself saying that's not doj policy. we got mad at james comey for talking about the investigation. the doj says don't talk about it. i'm curious, about your thought about it or do you think they should stick to the policy of keeping their mouths shut unless they charge donald trump. >> it's frustrating. it would be great if merrick garland would come out and take a podium this afternoon and tell us exactly what's

joyce is exactly right. incredible exposure here to criminal liability certainly for all of the individuals who have testified in some form or another that they were involved in dealing with these records and in the securing of these records and in the efforts to collect them and return them to the fbi and the national archives, and that when they came to do the search of the property, they found twice what they thought they would find because it was twice what they have been told by these law, so the real question, as joyce says, is the question of none and intent did, this happen inadvertently without their knowledge, did they think they were representing the truth and in fact this was not the case when they misrepresented or misinformed. all of this is going to be incredibly important but all of this suggests that these are really likely targets for the government to probe as they seek witnesses, cooperators as they go forward in determining whether they are actually going to bring criminal charges agains

attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. she is now a law prosecutor at the university of alabama. katie, since we were just quoting you, the first question is for you. your new reporting says that this investigation poses an unparalleled test for the justice department. how about an unparalleled test for a president? >> well, it's an interesting question, because again, we've seen a little bit of this in the monograms evening you referenced earlier. so much of the conversation has been around merrick garland, and the choice he will make, and the conversation is around the former president and how he's been pushing this again and again. the justice department did nick not go into this investigation related to presidential records and classified information, i think it would get to the point where lead to a search warrant to make sure it had obtained all the information that it is sought. in past cases, it had worked with people whether it was general petraeus, whether it was former secretary of state hillary clinton, to obta

w. joyce lee who is in, ty pay. hi joyce. can you give us an update? what's the situation in taiwan? right now, well up to now, china has fired more than 10 ballistic missiles to the north east and south west of the island. high wants defense ministry that they have activated the missile defense systems. the drew was initially planned to last for 3 days, but the p o a announced today that they will extend it for more one more day until monday thy fire drew is take place in 7 songs, including an area just 20 kilometers from the south of south and city gal shown the thing is china often holds military drills in the taiwan strait, but what we're seeing now is something else entirely. tell us why these latest exercises, so worrying. well, the true is unprecedented. this is the 1st time beijing tries to encircle the island like this. the de facto a blockade is a direct challenge to free air and sea navigation ponies. fishermen rush to go back to the pulse full safety as for international flights. departing in a rocking in taiwan, they have to fly alternativ

that's a d, w 's joyce lee in taipei. thank you, joyce. now a russian court has sentenced us basketball star, brittany groin a to 9 years in prison for drug possession and smuggling. she was convicted of carrying cannabis oil into russia. the white house is greiner was wrongfully detained and is calling for her release. brittany griner entered the cramped court room and defendant so hoping the sentencing judge would be lenient that the judge would consider that griner admitted her mistake, but her accidentally packed cannabis oil prescribed by her doctor and legal in the us. i never meant to hurt anybody, never to put in jeopardy the rest population. i never meant break any involve made an honest mistake. and i hope that in your ruin in my life, griner was stopped in mid february after putting her bag through screening in moscow. airport customs officials searched her bags and she was eventually detained . she was on her way to join the russian club. she played for after the w n. b. a season in the united states. griner is considered one o

it's a d, w 's joyce lee in taipei. thank you, joyce. now to the latest on the war in ukraine. russian forces are attacking ukrainian positions on the front lines in the east and done yet. region. ukrainian general admits his troops are being pushed back. civilians also being forced to leave their homes as constant shelling makes life impossible. a train station in donetta evacuating the old and the young pul, exhausted westwood. ordinary ukrainians caught up in fierce fighting and forced to leave their homes with whatever they can carry. hello, miss, but is it ya? village has been ruined me. the one we have no where to live fuel? no, there's no gas, no water, you know electricity is you. but we were sitting in the basement for a month in the army bought us here and i believe was nothing. the government has ordered civilians to lead combat zones in done at school, but the danger may not be just from russian attacks. amnesty international accuses ukraine of basic troops and populated areas, putting civilians at risk and violating the laws

attorney, joyce vance. she's an msnbc contributor and professor at the university of alabama school of law. good to see you both. joyce, i want to start with you. let's talk about this new reporting from the times. what would it mean if trump's own attorney falsified a statement to the doj? >> so, what this does, alicia, is a tight lights how dependent we are on understanding the facts, what's actually happened here, before we can reach any understanding of whether this was really just an effort by doj to reclaim these classified materials, or whether this is an investigation that's pointed, this perhaps headed towards indictment. because that will be heavily fact dependent. situations like the one that you are discussing, that we are newly learning about tonight, where people affirmatively took steps to conceal least important materials. it wasn't just a mistake, or perhaps, a certain amount of ineptitude, although gross negligence can be a criminal violation. if this looks like an intentional effort to ke

joyce. and it is basic level this is a conversation about just versus the consequence of trying to pursue that justice. you have had to face this as a prosecutor. you have to make decisions sometimes about, i know they should do, but is that actually what i should do? >> well, the decision that you always make, you're north star, is to do the right thing. and although the sounds simplistic and idealistic, ultimately that is the whole point of having a justice department and living in a rule of law system where no minutes above the law. when you have the sort of external considerations, will people come after you, does somebody want to kill you? or harm you as a result of the prosecution. you are trump's prosecution is to satisfy those considerations. we do not have a system where a strongman can threaten violence against prosecutors or against the country. and avoid prosecution. the doj's job is to decide whether they have sufficient evidence to obtain and sustain a conviction. and if it is

attorney joyce vance, former u.s.orney and senior fbi official chuck rosenberg and national reporter coral linnick, coauthor of the best selling author "i alone can fix it." ken, tell us more. >> a letter from the national archives to trump's lawyers back in may was published by john solomon who has ties to trump. officials are not pulling back on the authenticity of the letter. the letter redefines some of the things we thought we knew. it says even among the 15 boxes turned over in january, after a year of negotiating with the trump people, they found what they said was more than 100 documents, 700 pages of material marked classified, including the highest classifications of the government, top secret, sensitive compartmental information special access programs, the kind of stuff if disclosed could betray sources and methods. that's back in january. at the time, this was a letter where the trump team was asserting executive privilege over some of the documents and asking that they not be turned over to the fbi, and

>> back with us is glenn kirschner and joyce vance.uestion on everyone's mind is, will jones be held accountable for what he has done here? >> how could he, not zerlina. anybody who profits off of the pain of the sandy hook families, telling these outrageous lies like apparently alex jones has been. it's really hard to see how he is not going to be held accountable. and frankly, my ears perked up when i heard the opposing counsel has had the last two years of text messages, not wanting to mix apples and oranges. i have to wonder if there is anything on there that might have alex jones communicating with proud boys, oath keepers roger stone, steve bannon, rudy giuliani. perhaps people in the white house. i wonder if the phone records genie is now out of the bottle. if that is something that the january 6th committee, and perhaps even federal prosecutors might be interested in. >> that is a fascinating detail. and thread we will all keep an eye on that. joyce, we saw in the charlottesville verdict that civil lawsuits do work against thes

joyce, i'll start with you. how monumental will this case before the first amendment?it is unusual to see one deployed and the precise way because the facts are so very one-sided in this situation. one suspects that there would be a lot of pressure on the fox defendant to settle the case shore of trial, although a settlement could be painful going to trial, almost guarantees a broader exposure of these sorts of really kraken lawyer fever dreams that are being spread here. in terms of the first amendment, this is a way of getting into the marketplace of free speech and drawing lines that make very clear just how serious are prohibitions against defamation of people continue to be in law, one of the most really eclectic and very fitting elements of this sort of law -- is the plaintiffs are entitled to get some form of truth telling from defendants in the same for where lies were told. as you indicated, there are beginning efforts in that area, only gets worse as the case goes to trial. >> i wanted to ask you about that really quickly, which is i know we take about news o

>> yeah, first of all ayman, joyce, -- aaron and i are off in the south.finition of a veggie tray. this is the recruiting class that the republican party has put together this cycle. it's abysmal at best. whoever did decide that the six or seven top tier senate republican candidates should be the nominees, from the rnc or the and our s c, or whatever entity, help them recruit mitch mcconnell, should be fired. they are abysmal candidates. you look at somebody like dr. oz, he does not seem to know what campaign one-on-one is, which is, you've got to be authentic to yourself. oz is a very wealthy television doctor, who made a lot of money off of people watch them on tv for a number of years. he cannot go out there and say, oh, i only have two houses and not expect us to believe -- that or not expect that an opposition researcher or opposition researcher will dig through that, and -- that you are lying. he also can't walk to a grocery store and pretend that he understands the cost of food, and he's an every man of the people, who is alarmed at the cost of broc

joyce, as always, thank you. next, florida governor and likely 2024 presidential hopeful ron desantis on the trail, stumping for extreme candidates. you will not believe the pitch he is making to voters. plus, the republican rushed to strip people of reproductive rights. could it cost them in the midterms? we have a brand new polling to share with you. ukrainians are marking six months of war. hear from them in a report from the ground in kyiv. but first, to richard louis who is standing by with a look at other big stories we are watching this hour on msnbc. >> alicia, good day to you. in new mexico, about 150 people were stranded by flooding near the caverns national park. park rangers attempted a rescue but washed out roads caused force them to call them off. -- safely leave the site. russian authorities opened a murder investigation into the death of a daughter of a close putin ally. she was killed in a parked car bomb attack -- russian investigators say a bomb was planted on the suv. she was driving. nbc has

attorney joyce vance. she also used to hold something that people are hearing about tonight, a top secret/sci security clearance. welcome back. >> good to see you, ari. >> when you look at the warrant and its basis, what can you glean from it? and does it look to you after a week of all kinds of attacks on this process that this was a validly approved and executed legal search warrant? >> that's a great question. and the answer is we don't know, because there is a missing part of this warrant that none of us has seen. that's the affidavit that was submit bade federal agent under oath, under penalty of personal perjury laying out probable cause that caused the search. i'm going to hazard a wild guess here that everyone was very careful, that this affidavit was fly-spec'd to within an inch of its life within the justice department and the judge gave it an even higher level of scrutiny before he put his name on it. so that is something i think we can move forward with. what we did learn, ari, that is absolute

joyce, something else happened today that made very big news. mike pence said he would consider an invitation to speak to the january 6th committee. here is what i do not understand. why in the world has he not been subpoenaed yet? >> you know, congress is running into a little bit of difficulty trying to enforce it it's subpoenas. it has to rely on the justice department and except in the most egregious cases, steve bannon was the first one. doj hasn't really backed congress up in the way that congress might have hoped they would have. there would be a lot of difficult legal issues that the former vice president could throw up, to try to at least delay testimony. so, it is really in the committee's interest to try to get to a negotiated situation, where pence would agree to come in and testify, given the way the clock is running. that could be a better move for them to make. of course, if doj decides that it needs the former vice presidents testimony at point, those issues do not really apply. doj would be able to issue a subpoena. it would be

thank you, joyce. the in taipei, one of the world's biggest heavy metal festivals as back vaccine is once again host an 85000 metal fans. but 3 days in a field in northern germany, event was cancelled for the last 2 years because of the coven and amec. the hot weather didn't keep the crowds away. heavy metal fans from around the world had been waiting over 2 years to return to what they called the holy ground. the revellers at this year's voc, an open air hail from as far away as mexico south africa and indonesia. i got all the way promoted listing aside. you can really be yourself here because we've had the tickets since 2019 we finally made it. we're here and it's so great to 100 bands are in the line up headlined by big names like slipknot and judas priest put covering the whole gamut of the genre including the ukranian band i t who traveled from kiya for the event. it's not just the legendary line up that draws the crowds to vulcan. it's 3 days of middle lifestyle, a rare chance to let their hair d

lee in its high pace of joyce. just talk us through the series of military drills in conducted by china in these key areas around tie one so on wednesday, evening china strong over taiwan. what's 10 cayman islands? the taiwanese military fired to each of them, which is in line with standard practice today trying to go into your conduct life. i addressed within 6 zone the wrong and taiwan jones steward on north north, east and south west oak. taiwan appear particularly close to a territorial waters. it appears that asian ones are to practise locating the island if it had to go into a war and a child. and it's worth noting that chinese citizens have expressed huge disappointment at the, at the authorities. the lack of action to stop hello many were expecting the p l a to shoot hello, playing down or at least turn her away mid air. so the public, this content is very, he is a very huge blow to see things authority, especially when he's under pressure to look strong ahead of hockey meeting later this year. many fear th

you haven't joyce lee. thank you very much for filling us in with the latest there from taipei, germany, they exporters have logged strong growth in the 1st half of the year despite the effects of the war statistics. so exports of goods increased 13 percent compared to the same period last year, reaching more than $750000000000.00 euros imports grew to the value of 26 percent to $722000000000.00, driven by the growing cost of energy payments . colbert joins as from the association of german chambers of industry and commerce . better than expected search there and records nets, despite the warranty grade and the pandemic, and supplied disruptions. how should we read the numbers? well, to be frank, i expect asians, for the german exports, have still been quite dampened over the last couple of months. while the latest figures now may seem positive. at the 1st glance, it is clear that a lot of these increases are actually due to price increases. and, and that's really a pity because, you know, german exports wi

thank you. joyce. deed abuse joyously in taipei . let's take a look at some of the other stories making headlines around the world. 10 workers are trapped under grand after a mind collapsed in northern mexico rescue teams or working around the clock to get them out. 5 other minors escaped. authorities are still trying to make contact with the man. the u. s. government has declared to monkey pox, a public health emergency, the announcement freeze of money and other resources to fight the virus. monkey pox can cause fever, aches, chills, and fatigue. more than 7000 americans have become infected. an american conspiracy theorist has been ordered to pay over $4000000.00 in damages to the parents of a child killed in a us school shooting the family say they suffered years of harassment because alex jones spread false claims that the sandy hook massacre was a hoax. hungary far right leader, victor or van has urged us conservatives to reject l g b t q writes, he also called for a tougher approach to immigration. speaking at a political gath

>> joyce, good to be with you again.that many of us were unsure whatever come, but, we never stop calling for it. to see this moment of accountability, for a life that represents so many of us, when it busted down, all of our doors were busted down. this moment of accountability means so much. it is reminded, that when we organize together, when we stand together, one week route for justice when, we work together, change is possible. and, it's a big step forward. >> i immediately thought of, and as producers to pull the soundbite, because when i watched the press conference today, i thought of daniel cameron, and what he said, when he declined to call, what happened to breonna, a crime. saying, the only crime was that officers, accidentally, shot bullets into the home of one white neighbor, not the other neighbors, just the white neighbor. here is what he said back then, about the decision to not invite. >> detective cosgrove, insurgent mattingly, were justified and returning fire, because they were fired upon. i underst

joyce, starting with you. let's just work on what we know so far. i've asked this question to a few other legal experts this morning. is it possible that the feds found nothing? >> you know, anything is within the realm of possibility when you go and execute a search warrant, mika. you have probable cause to believe that you'll find evidence, but that is not always the case. here, though, the signals are that this was a significant exercise of the government's authority, something i think it is very important to keep reiterating. in these cases with national security implications are at least two possibilities. one is that they're searching because they have plans to prosecute. they're getting evidence for the prosecution. the other is that they're investigating and there is a grand jury that is looking at what is going on. but the primary concern is the recovery of classified documents, because having them out into the public where they've spilled, puts the country at grave risk. so i think we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that a prosecution is

. >> so joyce, how unusual is it that this redacted version of an affidavit for a high profile search be released this soon after those redactions were submitted? >> this process has moved very promptly but the most surprising aspect of it is doj is apparently going to agree to release redacted information rather than appealing the magistrate judge's ruling and that is likely because they found some reasonable carveout in the affidavit, information that can be provided without impacting the integrity of the investigation. most likely, that means that we'll learn a little bit more this morning about the former president's willful resistance to returning these documents even after repeated requests and that could turn out to be quite interesting. >> yeah, and just joyce, just give us an idea what normally is included in an affidavit like this. >> so, your whole goal as a prosecutor in the search warrant affidavit is to convince the judge who you're asking to issue the search warrant that you've got plenty of probable cause to go ahead and do the search. although, the legal standard is t

hey we're, we're joined by joyce lee joyce. give us the latest. what's the situation right now? so china regularly conducts military drew's near taiwan, but it has never tried to encircle with the island. the de facto a blockade will loss and too sunday afternoon and some target has shown up within. ty wants territorial. see including an area just 20 kilometers from the south and city college shown. it's was noting that chinese citizens have express huge disappointment at beijing's lack of actions to, to, to stop. hello is these visit and many were expecting the p l lay to shoot pillows . he's playing down, but it didn't happen. of course. the public discontent is a huge blow to seizing piece authority, especially when his under pressure to look strong ahead of a party meeting later this year. so many fear that the pressure could prompt china to take it even tougher pressure measure against taiwan and a drill could be practicing for a future invasion. what does this de facto blockade that we're seeing right now? mean for taiwan and the people there for the de facto blockade is a

joyce and glenn, you're not going anywhere because about to talk about alex jones's trial.o do that right up next. at right u next i've always been into health, and wellness, and fitness... i tried everything with diet and exercise, and nothing worked. there was just kinda this stubborn area on my stomach. but coolsculpting worked for me! coolsculpting targets, freezes and eliminates treated fat for good. no needles, no incisions. discuss coolsculpting with your provider. some common side effects include temporary numbness, discomfort and swelling. you've come this far... coolsculpting takes you further. visit coolsculpting.com we just moved. so there's millions of - dahlias in bloom. over nine acres. when we started, we grew a quarter of an acre. now i'm taking on new projects on the regular. we always dreamed of having this property, so - i want to make my yard look as beautiful as butters, here. butters. how are you doing over there? we do both vegetables and large mouth bass. yep. we've got tons of them, don't we, buddy? there are millions of ways to make the most of yo

attorney, chuck rosenberg, joyce vance, frank figliuzzi. chuck, first to you.t is claiming he has the right to declassify documents. he declassified them before he removed them from the white house. theoretically, if he did declassify them before noon on january 20th, when he stopped becoming president, of course, does that exonerate him from any potential violation of mishandling classified documents? >> well, andrea, it's a great question. a bit of a theoretical one. a sitting president has the right, the privilege, the authority to classify and declassify the entire intelligence structure built for the ultimate consumer, the president. whether or not he did declassify it is a factual question. we don't know the answer to it. this may sound like a conjecture rabbit hole, but i guess it's also possible that president biden could reclassify documents. president george w. bush did that shortly after 9/11, reclassified certain documents for other reasons, not nefarious. sitting presidents have that authority. that authority now resides with mr. biden. but we don'

let's expand on this and brandy w joyce lee who's in taipei. joyce, give us the latest. what's the situation right now? so chinese navy ships and military aircraft crossed the taiwan strait, needy and lined several times to day. the drill was initially planned fall to last for 3 days until sunday, but the p l a announced today that they will extend the drill for one more day until monday and they add at one more shown for life i drove. so that's a total of 7 songs right now, including an area just 20 kilometers from the south and city. how show up. china often holds military drills in the taiwan strait. but what we're seeing now is something else entirely, isn't it? why exactly are these lead? is exercises, so worrying what the true is unprecedented. this is the 1st time beijing tries to and circle with the island like this. it's worth noting that on china, us social media wave will and we chad. chinese citizens have express huge disappointment at beijing. psycho action to stop pelosi from visiting taiwan many were expecting the p l. a to shoot her playing down, but it d

>> joyce would know more than i would. about the specific legal ramifications of that, i don't think anyone should be surprised about donald trump not doing what sensible, sober people presumably have advised him to do. this would certainly be to not having these conversations. they had different targets of the investigation. on some level, i suspect, i certainly don't know, but i'm trying to have his punitive run in 2024. he has some tort style protectives. he hopes that will give him some sort of power. >> before we have to go, it does not stop the wheels of justice. particularly aggressive in their own investigation. he said that he expects donald trump to be indicted in georgia, i have always maintained that county investigation. is there going to be an order of indictments for donald trump? >> interesting question who will go first. further down the road, the justice department is right there. we have a smaller universe for complaints about investigating concerns. this is limited to georgia. most likely some concerns

attorney, joyce vance, who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. she is now a law professor at the university of alabama. and andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel, and former senior counselor counsel of the mueller probe. counselor weisman, we need you to help us. out there is a lot of reporting. and i want to start with this new new york times report. doj prosecutors are now asking for those white house documents, that the national archives gave to the january 6th committee. does that mean that the walls are starting to close in on trump? and all that we have heard from the january 6th committee is now making its way to the doj, who is taking action? e >> it means some of what the january 6th committee has is making its way. because they still -- the department of justice -- still doesn't have everything that the january 6th committee has. they gave a specific request for things related to false -- of the fake electors scheme. that was provided. so, that sort of witness testimony, and presumably some documents. but with this grand jury sub

thank you. joyce. deed abuse joyfully in taipei. now to the war in ukraine where the countries presidents as sharply criticized the human rights organization, amnesty international volunteers, zelinski has accused it of victim blaming. after amnesty alleged ukrainian troops had endangered civilians while fighting russian soldiers on the ground in ukraine. there's reported to be heavy fighting in the south close to the russian held city of harrison. and in the eastern on ask region. ukrainian civilians have fled their homes, forced to leave by incessant russian shouting a train station and done at sc. evacuating the old and the young all exhausted westward. ordinary ukrainians caught up in fierce fighting and forced to leave their homes with whatever they can carry with. but we are from a village near lucy chance kits between the live hans can donuts regions have village has been ruined. does no gas, no water, no electricity. we were sitting in the basement for a month. the army brought us here to the the government has ordered civil

joyce vance, so great to have you here.o, i want to explore this private pardon papers scenario, right? the fact that this roger stone clemency document was taken when the fbi seized papers from mar-a-lago, normally, pardons go through the doj, i believe it is, office of the pardon. >> the pardon attorney, right? who routinely handles all pardons. >> is it possible that trump has a stash of private pardon papers, that might intersect with some of the things he did around january 6th? >> my temptation is to tell you, absolutely not, it's impossible. but this is trump the tweet talking about, right? he didn't do things like anyone else. the reason you have a pardon attorney is that there is an official record of a president granting pardons while he's an office, the only time he has access to the pardon power, which is very broad and expansive. could trump have done these privately? i suppose he could have. but there's one limitation. even trump would have to create some form of a record that pardon was issued, while he was i

joining us now, joyce vance, so great to have you here, thank you for joining me joyce. >> good to see you alex. >> i want to explore this private pardon papers scenario. the fact that this roger stone clemency document was taken when the fbi seized papers from mar-a-lago, normally pardons go through the doj. office of the pardon, right? >> the pardon attorney, who routinely handles all pardons. >> is it possible trump has a stash of pardon papers that might intersect with some of the things that were done around january 6th? >> my temptation is to tell you no, absolutely not, it's impossible, this is trump we are talking about, he did not do things like anybody else and the reason that you'd have a pardon attorney is so that there is an official record of a president granting pardons, while he is in office and the only time that he has access to the pardon power, which is broad and expansive. could trump done these privately? i suppose he could have. but there is one limitation, even trump would have to create some form of a record. that the pardon was issued while he was in office. r

joining us now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama, current professor at the university of alabama law school, and co-host of the podcast "sisters in law." joyce, thank you for being with us tonight. what is your expectation about this affidavit, and the redactions and its utility generally speaking? >> so i suspect the answer is we won't know unless and until someone is indicted in this case. because d.o.j. will likely file under seal tomorrow, we won't know what redactions it's proposing. and trump is very safe, frankly, making the argument that the affidavit should be unsealed, and that the government has something to hide, because something that his two lawyers who are former d.o.j. employees know, is that this affidavit will need to remain sealed for a number of reasons, perhaps there is some small parts of this that the magistrate judge might decide to release, but most of it will remain redacted, a lot of the information contained in it will be classified, some of it will be grand j

so, nothing less than that is what is at stake here. >> joyce vance, ari melber is with us and has a question for you. >> yeah, joyce, i just wanted you to walk through a little more what it means if a federal prosecutor, something you have so much experience with, goes to a judge in this setting, what do they have to prove and what does it mean that a judge looks at this situation and including the fact that a sitting president is usually the top classification authority, but a former president is a citizen, walk us through what that means, what we might glean from that process? >> ari, i think it is the right place for us to focus today. because this is an extremely serious step. and these sorts of cases that focus on retention of classified materials, when someone isn't entitled to them, are rarely prosecuted. but the cases where there is prosecution is where someone intentionally hangs on to those documents and shares them with someone else. the classic example is general david petraeus, barack obama's cia chief who shared code word classified information with a girlfriend who wa

joyce it was good to see you. thank you for being with, us you heard my competition with suzanne about why donald trump would invoke the fifth amendment in this trial which is largely about his business. but there is something that suzanne was hinting at and that there is a lot donald trump can say because he's a big talker that could be held against him. and he may be worry about other cases in addition to this particular one which he was deposed. >> while looking at it from the perspective of trump's lawyers, this is the sort of client that you do not want to give free range to in a deposition. you want to do everything that you can do to constrain his testimony. so the statement that was issued today that you reference at the top of the show, it's very loyally, it sends voice in language that is unlike that used by the former president. this notion that he can't talk because no matter what he says, the attorney general would find a way to use that against them. whether that is true or not, this is a civil case

joyce? >> yeah. if that's for me, i think it's unusual for a former president to have trouble finding legal counsel. lawyers want to represent former presidents. that's prestigious work. the issues here are novel constitutional issues that are fascinating. you know, there's been some reporting that trump has picked up a former doj lawyer who i suspect chuck and i both know, who did work in organized crime. a good lawyer. by and large, he hasn't attracted to his team these sort of leading constitutional lawyers, former solicitor generals who you would expect to see handling these types of cases. again, not a good signal for the former president. >> finally, chuck, the absence of the trump lawyers there after making such a big deal about this, the former president as well on social media, they are clearly trying to really target the fbi and this entire procedure, something that former vice president pence called out in an appearance in new hampshire yesterday. one of the moments where he separated hims

attorney joyce vance, who has spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor, she is also a law professor at the university of alabama. and clint watts, west point graduate, former fbi special agent, and a distinguished research fellow at the four policy research institute. clint, i turn to use first. i wanted to share with you what the former cia director said earlier tonight. >> these are exceptionally sensitive documents that are restricted in terms of who has access to them. who can handle them. how they are stored. and to take them out of the white house i think is just the height of recklessness and irresponsibility. they are not even uploaded into top secret information systems. >> clint, any idea, we are civilians, mear mortals, any idea what these documents could be and how they just couldn't be so dangerous for the united states that they are in the former guys basement? >> i think what's the direction brennan said was right. anything involving nuclear is given special code and restricted access. and we go into the government, certain things have even higher levels of security clas

let's bring in joyce vance. what is your reaction?orst suspicions that we've been discussing ever since news of this search warrant broke. the warrant documents apparently confirm that doj is investigating what could be criminal violations in the mishandling of classifying information. and the breadth of this search is pretty spectacular. it suggests that there are multiple areas, not the rooms where guests at mar-a-lago stayed, but pretty much any area where the president, the former president or his staff had access and where documents could be stored, that the search was broad and expansive. so what we're seeing here is something where it is still not clear, was this an effort to retrieve documents or will there be a follow-on prosecution. but nothing is off the table at this point. >> i have received the documents. ryan riley, thank you very much for forwarding it. coy say that with the "wall street journal" reported about what they searched and where they searched is indeed true, the 45 office and those store yj rooms, but not in