msnbc legal analyst, joyce vance is with us as well quote, let me start with you o this one as you have bee following the story pretty closely. give us the reaction so fa that you are hearing on this latest decision. >> that's right, i just got of the phone with multipl abortion providers, an abortion rights advocates wh applauded the supreme court' decision to reserve the status quo as it relates to medicatio abortion they did emphasize that th battle over abortion pills i far from being over, and acces to the pills could look much different by the time mid week we also heard from protester on the ground in front of th supreme court who echoed the same sentiment take a listen. >> a sense of outrage that a judge with no medical training would have the audacity to override a decision of the fda that was the products of experts in the field >> we are getting the christia evangelicals view imposed on the entire country, whic violates the separation of church and state furthermore, the drug that was recently band, because it is not safe by a texas drug is on that is used for miscarriage tre

now is suzanne craig, pulitzer prize-winning investigative reporter for the new york times, and joyce vance, former district attorney for the northern district of alabama. joyce, let me start with you i terms of the legal implication today of the fact that trump i speaking in his deposition do you see anythin particularly meaningful in that? >> so, it's always a challenge when you have a client like th former president, who i thin lawyers despair of having an client control over him, and h answers questions. what will happen now is th attorney generals office wil comb through the transcript. they will see if anything that the former president has sai assists their case but because this is a civi proceeding, they are also free to share this deposition wit folks like alvin bragg, who ma be looking potentially a criminal charges it's tough to figure why trump's lawyers would have let him go in and answer questions for more than seven hours. >> yeah, seven hours is a long time, susanne craig. and as joyce rightly points out, i'm sure alvin bragg i interested in what - the a.g. is doing and the

. >> joining me now, joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, professor at the university of alabama school of law and msnbc legal analyst, and michael steele, former rnc chair, msnbc political analyst, and host of the michael steele podcast i will add to that sea of people who are super angry about trump's viktor orban, the prime minister of hungary, who tweeted support, keep on fighting, mr. president, we are with you donald trump can count on viktor orban, as well as the american viktor orban in florida. i want to go to you, joyce we finally did get an answer to the question we kind of didn't know the answer to this is when cy vance said on "meet the press," the reason there was no prosecution of trump on the state charges that he's now potentially fashing, because again, we haven't seen this indictment, is he was asked not to by the doj. and that they were asked to put on hold. let me play it one more time this is cy vance talking about what barr asked him to do. >> we learned from the southern district of new york that they asked

but >> thank you all so much yamiche alcindor, joyce vance, bad luck for you, anthony, i'm not lettingeave yet. why? because when we come back, we're talking on the fox new defamation lawsuit and what it can mean for rupert murdoch. and later, students around the country are walking out of class to protest gun violence. while in florida, the governor is making it easier to carry guns matthew dowd and bob tortell are here on the love there we're just getting underway on a busy wednesday night by your side, byou get to., you also get to trim this, edge that, and blow everything away. isn't the outdoors great? it is great. because you made it that way. get the job done right with craftsman. we build pride. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirec

trump, she doe worry about potential violence being stoked among his supporters let's bring in joyce vanceormer u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst, she's also th co-host of the sisters in la podcast. welcome joyce, good to hav your insights here how valuable of a witness to think stormy daniels is at thi point and will michael cohen b more critical to the da's case >> so, we are all working little blind alex in the sense that vaughn hillyard jus reminded us that we have not seen the charges yet we don't know precisely what evidence will need to back the up if those people expect the charges to center on the payments that were made to stormy daniels in a last-ditch effort to keep her from sharin the story of her affair with the former president on the ev of the 2016 election, then i is possible that the prosecution will need her to take the witness stand they might also be able to mak the case for documents without subjecting her to that experience one thing prosecutors will d is that they will make a ver cut and dry decision about which witnesses are essentia to provide direct testimony

and fox, the head person i rupert murdoch and he will hav to be their aunt's stamp >> joyce vance hasshe is with us for th second as well you know this family so well jim. how do you think they ar reacting to this nobody says no to report not in his world >> i don't think they ar surprised. because this judge has bee very tough the calls have tended to b breaking into minions favor. dominion voting which is suing him for defamation so i don't think they ar surprised. they are clearly not released. rupert murdoch has not had a track record of doing well i these sorts of settings. he doesn't like it there was a defamation - earlier when in fact he wa very frank may have further case a little bit. so clearly not happy and the really went to great lengths t head this off. they might not be happy bu their business is still supe strong anthony were once they pai contributor and a host on fo business what do you make of this lawsuit. do you think is as bad for frogs as a lot of other people think it is? because they are out there every night and they keep on trumping >> i think it is bad,, b

attorney joyce vance. joyce, your reaction to idaho's law?nalizing assisting with an out of state abortion >> right the idaho law has that affect because, of course, to access care now, many citizens of idaho will have to travel out of state to get abortion care this includes not just voluntary abortions but medically necessary abortions for people who are miscarrying. idaho now takes the title in what appears to be a republican race to the bottom for statutes that restrict women's ability to control their own medical health the unfortunate news here -- there will be lawsuits launched by private parties that's already in the works. the unfortunate truth here is that these cases will be heard by a united states supreme court that increasingly has shown hostility to doing anything that will restrict a state's ability to enact laws like this one. >> michael, republicans may well be appealing to the base, energizing their base, with these abortion and gun laws. won't it hurt them in a general election >> i think so. there's no doubt here. when yo

with me to discuss, jeremy peters, political reporter o the new york times, and joyc vance is still hereget sanctioned >> well, it's an interesting question this close to trial steph, because usually when party is sanctioned, the - but here that's not really the issue. the issue is whether or no failing to disclose this issue made it more difficult for dominion to get summar judgment, which would've prevented the entire trial fro going forward. frankly, it's a little bit of mess but now, dominion has some really great evidence to prove the most important thing the have to prove at trial, whic is actual malice showing tha fox either had reckles disregard toward the falsity o information they were puttin out on their airwaves, or that they actually knew that it was false. and this evidence, i think frankly, is just a nail in tha coffin on the backside, the lawyers and fox news itself may face repercussions. the judge has said he' considering appointing a special master to look int these failures in discovery. and that could have very serious consequences >> jeremy, let's just lay this out.

attorney joyce vance in set, in studio so glad to have you here how did this hearing play out today, what does it mean for the larger battle between bragg and the house gop we have seen playing out for a number of weeks now? >> yeah, i think it's really important to start with the facts here which is that in bragg's first year in office in 2022, which was the center of the hearing, this morning, there were 78 homicides in manhattan which was a drop of 15% from the year before, a helpful statistic that the associated press called out was that in palm beach county, there were just as many residents as new york. there were 96 homicides. that is why i think it's important to view this hearing in the context of jim jordan's last few weeks he has sent letters to alvin bragg since former president trump's indictment where he appeared in new york and pled not guilty to 34 counts against him with regards to a 2016 hush money payment that was paid. he has claimed that bragg's office is subject to congressional scrutiny since it has federal grants and he subpoenaed some of the prosecutors, the

>>> we're back with former federal prosecutor joyce vance i walked through the details we got from theent your thoughts? >> reading transcripts is always very illuminating, ari, and i think you do a great job of hitting the high notes something i notice is that mr. m mr. blank blanch, the former president's new lawyer repeatedly referred to him as the president. prosecutors will -- we'll is an a motion to require the former president's attorneys to refer to him as mr. trump in court you know, this is the same reason that, for instance, a police officer witness -- unless he would normally wear his uniform during the day is not permitted to put on dress blues when he takes the stand because you want him to be who they are. people in the court are referred to by normal names and president trump becomes citizen trump. >> what did you think of the decision by the prosecutors to not worry about whether someone would say, oh, this arraignment was different or longer and to really go on offense having perhaps learned from other past clashes with donald trump that everything is going to be thro

also joining us is joyce vance for me not states attorney for the northern district of alabama. and msnbc contributor. good morning to both of you, thanks for being here. carol, you were with me on thursday night and frida morning. i've got to tell, you 1 millio things are going through m head it's hard to keep clea everything that everybody said something people said brok through. you kept leaning on the fact there is a justice system, there are jury trials. there are actually judges. so for all the stuff tha donald trump is trying to sa about the system, he's going t get a trial in which he goes in, presumed innocent, and it is o the government to convince the jurors otherwise >> that's the big irony of thi whole situation. these claims of authoritaria governments or witch hunts, or things like that this country has the mos amazing justice system in th world. and to denigrate that becaus donald trump is not gettin what he wants personally i really, really below the lowes you can get. this is a system of the u.s. constitution guarantees certai rights to criminal defendants. the

attorney joyce vance.chances that it's going to work? >> so it's a very interesting move and it's an aggressive one boy bragg, but it's appropriate because he's asking the court in essence to issue a declaratory judgment you know, we're used to civil lawsuits where people ask for money damages. here bragg is saying to the court i need you to rule on what my rights are vis-a-vis the judiciary committee's efforts to subpoena me, subpoena other people on my staff or former staff. i want you to tell the judiciary committee back off, your subpoenas aren't any good here, they can't be enforced given the courts are used to entering those kinds of decisions and there is some clear law to follow here, i think it's a savvy move. it's an offensive move it's an effort not to wait for the judiciary committee to continue to issue subpoenas, but rather to settle the issue now. >> so what sort of -- jordan says that this is bragg trying to block congressional oversight. what sort of oversight does congress, does the house

joyce vance is a former u.s. attorney and law professor at the university of alabama. frank figliuzzi formerly with the fbi and an msnbc national security analyst so much emotion yet again, ken let's talk nuts and bolts if we can. to start, what's the latest on this >> chris, police say they arrived at the bank in the center of louisville around 8:30 a.m.and greeted by a hail of gunfire. there were reports of shots fired. the police immediately began firing back. the suspect was kid. the police are not saying or aren't sure yet whether he was killed by a police bullet or took his own life. two officers were shot or wounded in the exchange of gunfire. one critically and was taken to surgery. the other brought to the hospital with non-life-threatening injuries. as you said, four people killed inside the bank. eight wounded total, included the officers brought to the hospital police have not yet said what type of weapon was used or what the motive was they did say this was either a rrt or former employ of the bank we were told earlier that they were investigating this as

charlie savage, "the new york times," and joyce vance. university of alabama and msnbc analyst. joyce, can i get, someone involved in the legal process for a long time, your thoughts as we saw that plane emblazoned with the trump logo, carrying the former president of the united states, to the first ever indictment >> it's not unheard of it in our country to indict political figures. but usually, when they're indicted, even those who fight the charges display some shame and some remorse for the conduct that they've engaged in. what sets trump apart in a very real way is the way he's handling this. he fundraises off of boorish behavior he in many way celebrates conduct that we're about to find out, whether a jury will believe it's criminal or not so this entire display of theater that trump is going to try to rally around his appearance in court tomorrow is something that trump needed to be guarded against this is private citizen trump. he is not above the law. he needs to face the consequences of the criminal justice system like any other american would this is a very real moment

joyce vance, it's a pleasure to see you.or your wisdom this evening. >>> we have one more story tonight about what republican politician in tennessee got away with until the media caught up with him that is coming up next [tires pop] dang it. that's some bad luck brian. and i think i'm late on my car insurance. good thing the general gives you a break when you need it. yeah, with flexible payment options to keep you covered. so today is your lucky... oh! [crash] ...day. meteor! [screams] dangit. for a great low rate, go with the general. frustrated by skin tags? dr. scholl's has the breakthrough you've been waiting for. the first fda-cleared at-home skin tag remover clinically proven to remove skin tags safely in as little as one treatment. aany questions?dy t-yeah, i got one.s how about the best network imaginable? let's invent that. that's what we do here. quick survey. who wants the internet to work, pretty much everywhere. and it needs to smooth, like super, super, super, super smooth. hey, should you be drinking that? -

ron allen is in new york and with us, former attorney joyce vance.onald trump is going to appear in his own defense? he said he didn't plan on it >> reporter: we understand he filed a deposition -- a video deposition there's that that seems to be the only way that he is going to appear here. car it's unlikely they would call him. trump's attorneys have not said he won't appear. but it seems unlikely. this is going to seem to boil down to her testimony. she's expected to take the stand and make her case, as she has on many occasions, in a book, articles and interviews over the past 20 plus years, dating back to the mid 1990s when they allegedly happened she has been silent until 2019 in her court filings, she outlines in detail what she said allegedly happened she describes him at the counter where she met trump. she says she knew each other from being in the same social circles in new york city back at that time. trump says he never met this woman. she describes the two of them going into the store because trump asked her to help him buy a gift they

this still has to be a state by state thing >> joining me now to discuss i all, msnbc contributor joyce vances a former u.s. attorney from the northern district o alabama, and co-host of th hashtag sisters in law podcasts joyce, when it comes to access to medication abortion, we now have two conflicting court orders what happens next? >> they are both conflicting and the conflict is interesting, because judge kacsmaryk in texas has recorded to enjoy th distribution of mifepristone nationwide, it's called nationwide injunction. judge thomas rison o washington was much more, very much limited in his ruling he was very thoughtful about it, and he said abortion, just a representative crockett wa saying, is now a state by stat issue after dobbs. each state is entitled t decide for itself. so, he entered an order making mifepristone available only in the 17 states that wer involved in the lawsuit in front of him you know, this is th traditional analysis of an injunction this is not final relief in th case this is not the dispositiv ruling on the party's rights it is meant to set the state o play du

as msnbc contributor joyce vance writes, tacopina's tactics highlight what many rail survivors dread orward. they know they are likely to face a second round of victimization. joyce joins us now. she is a former u.s. attorney and now a law professor at the university of alabama. she also co-host the hashtag sisters in law podcast. as you pointed out, the law has evolved to give rip accusers more protections in court. where do these changes mean for carroll civil case? >> well, in the civil case, carol still receives some protection. most of the evolution and the law has been in the area of criminal rape prosecutions, where historically women were treated like the property first of their father and then of their husbands. so it is not property interest that rape law sought to protect. that is why historically, women were required to fight back, or to cry out. we are a little bit better involved than that these days, but frankly, alicia, we have a long way to go and we are seeing why in this civil case. we're carole still is being accused on the stand of having made it up because she di

>> joyce vance, let's talk about your take -- small, medium, or large? if you've got tax cases involved here, conspiracy and tax, and you know, fraudulent business filings, you're going pretty large. >> i think it is going big and to the point that was being made before people knew what was in the indictment, there were a lot of complaints, many of them motivated by politics, saying that this was an insignificant indictment, that it was just about some records keeping violations i'm sure this becomes more clear when we see the unsealed indictment, but knowing that there is a significant number of felony charges, that it's more expansive than stormy daniels, that begins to give aus a pictue of the work that was done here i have the same question as neal has. i'm interested to know what changes. but having been a prosecutor 25 years, having been involved in many extensive grand jury investigations, i can tell you sometimes when witnesses get in front of the grand jury and begin answering questions, new facts, unexpected facts can come to light or you can b

here to discuss is msnbc legal analyst and former u.s attorney joyce vance, and mini timmaraju presidentral pro-choice america welcome to you both. this is a very interesting moment, joyce. this fight is hitting back t the fifth circuit. what should be looking out for this time? >> i don't share the optimisti take that other people hav expressed. i suspect that the reason that this stays in place is because a number of conservative justices, the same people wh refused to stay measures lik -- in texas held their noses and implemented this state to avoi a pending the entire fda approval process that may or may not bode wel for where this litigatio ultimately ends up the fifth circuit will now consider the entirety of judge kacsmaryk's ruling and particularly they ar likely to focus on his decisio that the fda had inadequat information and approved a unsafe drug. you know, too many of us tha seems like a bizarre ruling fo a panel of judges to undertake it is a matter of medica expertise. and fda discretion, but that i the next decision that the fifth circuit will make. this litigation, as i

joining us now is joyce vance, former u.s. and the co-host of the sisters in law podcast joyce, it's a thrill to see yo in person. thank you for joining me tonight. >> it's always so nice to be here with you. >> first, let's start, it seem as though both sides would lik boris epshteyn, to calm an chat on the one, hand the prosecutors have a lot to talk to him about but what is epshteyn stand t gain here? >> what he stands to gain, i what he won't get, a subpoena. and i think the hope perhaps i that he can go on and spea voluntarily, and that's the en of it >> you think it's about avoiding the inevitabl subpoena and not for example casing the joint as they say. getting a read into what exactly federal prosecutor aren't student >> it's fair to say. look, he's represented by very sophisticated council. one of the lawyers that he represents trump, i'm sure tha they like to get as much information as they can get. about where the focus of the special counsel currently has. >> do you think, he' remarkably intertwined on a lo of trump

and joyce vance, msnbc legal analyst, also near the co-host of the hashtag sisters in la podcast.okay, i got through thos titles, you guys are alway busy you always take time for the katie phang show, so, i am grateful joyce, i like to start wit you. it's been a few days since trump's manhattan da arraignment and the unsealin of that felony indictment. lots of hot takes flying around i am personally bullish on the charges. but i would love to get your assessment >> so, katie, i am bullish to. and this indictment was really the product of a lot of public commentary before it was actually unsealed. so, many people going on record, saying it was week, before the dread the charges themselves but once the indictment wa unsealed, we learned it wa about the 2016 election, it wa about trump's efforts to manipulate that election b creating false business record that were designed to conceal conspiracy to, engage in election interference. the manhattan da's a experienced prosecutor wit both state and federal experience he has a very experienced team backing him up on this one i think the tr

he's just putting him on notice he has to quit it now, or face potential additional action. >> joyce vanceand a setback for trump in another legal fight. a federal appeals court yesterday rejected his request to block former vice president mike pence from testifying in a special counsel probe into january 6th. trump could take his appeal to the supreme court if he chooses not to, however, this ruling now clears the way for pence to testify before the grand jury. up next on "ana cabrera reports," back in the game, we're live in phoenix where a wnba star brittney griner is set to speak to the media for the first time since her release from a russian priso you're doing business in an app driven, multi-cloud world. that's why you choose vmware. with flexible multi-cloud services that enable digital innovation and enterprise control, vmware helps you keep your cloud options open. from prom dresses to workouts and enterprise control, and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccina

joining me is alecia johnson and former prosecutor joyce vance. the political implications are huge right? we have the national story which is that republicans have demonstrated for more than a decade now that they have no interest in passing any legislation that we have now deemed reasonable gun control, no matter how many children get kids, how many parents get killed, they offer no solutions. as a political position, the republicans are defending something that most americans don't like at a macro level, if you were talking to the democratic party in tennessee right now, what would you be telling them to do about these expulsions what actions should they be taking >> well, i would tell them to keep doing exactly what they are doing to be at the state capitol. but also, take this protest to where republicans actually start paying attention that's the economy there are a lot of industries in tennessee. there are a lot of interests in tennessee. democrats should be pushing on different companies. we have seen this happen across the country on seve

to bring in nbc's rehema ellis in new york city for us, florida state attorney dave aronberg and joyce vance former u.s. attorney in alabama and msnbc legal analyst. rehema, starting with you, talk to us about what we can expect to unfold in the coming hours? >> reporter: well, we know that will letitia james, the new york state attorney general wants to ask him questions about this civil lawsuit that she's filed against him claiming that he engaged in a habitual routine habit of filing false claims about the value of his properties in order to get good bank loans, and that would be on hotels, high-rises and golf courses. it also names trump, his three oldest children and the trump organization, and as she's found that there's merit on this, she's seeking $250 million in damage as well as something like a five-year ban on trump doing any sort of real estate deals in the state of new york. now, whether he will answer questions about that or not, as he did not answer questions when he was deposed back in august, he took the fifth amendment, which is his legal right to do so, but he was talking

i want to bring in nbc senior reporter jane timm joyce vance is the former u.s.orney and professoral at the university of alabama law school and eric dug against jane, first get us up to speed on tucker carlson specifically what do we know? >> tucker carlson was as you said a ratings giant his departure appears unexpected at least friday, he said see you monday, gave a keynote address this week end. it doesn't appear it was planned. he's not out with a statement. we have no reporting that it's tied to the massive dominion settlement from last week that we've been reporting on so closely, but the timing is curious. whether it's related to the defamation and settlement or perhaps something fox news might have learned about tucker carlson is something people are curious about. the timing is, as you said, curious. the idea that a lot of emails, communications and internal workings of his show and other shows at fox came out in sort of the bath water in this dominion lawsuit. we also know that a fired producer abby grossberg alleged harassment and a toxic work environ

and joyce vance, a allow professor at the university of alabama. again, we're keeping our eyes on this hallway the arraignment is set to begin at 2:15. some time before 2:15, we should see donald trump walk through. does he say anything to the reporters gathered we will find out daniel, let's talk about the case that the d.a. could be bringing today do you think that it's risky to bring a case about hush money payments against a former president? >> not if you put it in the context that i think it's going to be placed in. this contrary to what i think defendant donald trump will say is not simply a case of blackmail. this is part of -- i think you'll see, a conspiracy count, and this is part of a conspiracy by defendant former president trump, michael cohen, people at the "national enquirer" to engage in conduct to protect then candidate trump from stories that are going to come out that would reflect poorly on him as a candidate and hurt his candidacy. this catch and kill program that the "national enquirer" had. i don't think you can look at this

. >> congresswoman, thank you very much for joining us on this day of breaking news joyce vance is withare at the pence stage before the grand jury, we are near the end. do you agree with that >> a degree with it in the sense you cannot indict this case before you talk to mike pence. it's exactly what tim says you want to hear it through pence's eyes, before you get there. there are valuable things that could come from mike pence i might be tempted to start, if i had the opportunity to examine him, by saying, we have all heard this conversation that trump had with georgia's secretary of state brad raffensperger where he pleaded with him i just need you to help me mind the 11,779 votes i'm missing the question for pence is, did trump have a similar conversation with you? did he beg you to help him get across the finish line, which would give prosecutors additional evidence that trump knew he had lost but was trying to scheme to stay in control i think ben is very clear when he says this is close to the end. whether it's the absolute end, i'm not sure i would go that far. there are things

attorney criminal prosecutor joyce vance. welcome to both of you joyce, what would you want to know from boris epshteyn if you were leading the probe today >> like he said he runs the whole gamut. he's the one who coordinated between the two lawyers who made that false certification to doj that all of the classified materials have been returned then there's a search warrant and we find out it's not true. if i'm jack smith i want to know what he knows about that >> you mention that sworn statement. "the new york times" reporting on that scrutiny saying he's played a role, quote, in connecting the two lawyers who helped draft a statement last june and a diligent search was conducted at mar-a-lago, and that always raises the question define diligent and define search >> define diligent, define search, define what you were told about the search. and i would add to that because i agree, obviously, the mar-a-lago documents case is a significant one particularly on obstruction. i would add, though, fake electors i mean this was one w

with me now to discuss this, from alabama, is joyce vance she's a former u.s. attorney and i think associates fro alabama. joyce tell us a little bit about dadeville as a community and where it is and what it is like >> daboll is a small community i think that same as you mentioned about 3000 residents 45 minutes away from montgomery, alabama. it is one of those communities that you see in small town alabama. it is half black and hal white. people are very close. there is a little bit of suggestion on social media tha it was a sweet 16 party wher the shooting took place. >> what is the - obviously down south there i more of a gun culture, there i would. say that's fair to say what is your sense of th cultural elements around this? we know very little about th case obviously the sheriff is not forthcoming at all with an details. is this a place where you se these types of incidents happe all that often or not >> so i think the reality is because there is a permissiv gun culture in alabama, like many other parts of the countr where it is easy to get a gu and there

joining us now, nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, joyce vance, former u.sprofessor at the university of alabama and co-host of the sisters in-law podcast and brandon buck joyce and brand reon are msnbc contributors >> the justice says in a statement, i'm going to read it to you, harlan and kathy crow are among our dearest friends and we have been friends for over 25 years. as friends do, he continues, we have joined them on a number of family trips during the more than quarter century we have known them he says earlier in my tenure at the court i sought guidance from others and others in the judiciary and were advised this sort of hospitality from close personal friends who did not have business before the court was not reportable he continues, i have endeavored to follow that council throughout my tenure and sought to comply with the disclosure guidelines these it is, he says, my intent to follow this guidance in the future so what he's talking about here are luxury trips that were paid for by his friend, a billionaire republican donor, harlan crow, includ

attorney joyce vance. i know you were on the air when this settlement was announced.in the last few seconds of my show and you were on with nicole it's a lot of money, but again no apology from fox. if you can afford to tell your viewers lies, if you can afford $787 million, it appears fox can afford it, what sort of system do we have in place that that can enforce the truth? what is the punishment >> i think you're identifying one of the central issues that we have in dealing with disinformation in our society. this was a defamation case this was a lawsuit by a business that was defamed by a news entity and they wanted to recover their losses i think in our minds, the media's minds, the public's minds this became a route to vindicating the spread of the big lie, something that a private lawsuit is not really well positioned to do. ultimately the lawyers did the right thing. they took a smart settlement for their client the question that leaves hanging is how do we deal with the spread of misinformation >> is there any legal recourse, i know it's a slippery slope when

attorney and msnbc legal analyst, joyce vance, and msnbc legal analyst, lisa reuben i'm going to begin with you, you have been in the courtroom listening to this testimony. one of the things i want to ask you about, donald trump saying he never met carol we have some contrary testimony, sworn testimony from donald trump about that, right? isn't there a photo of e. jean car carol together, and didn't donald trump mistake that person in the photo of his former wife, marla maples you can put that on the screen there's the photo. >> and that photo was shown yesterday and carol's lawyers opening statement, and they made clear to the jury that when donald trump said in the allegedly defamatory statement, she's not my type, he was wrong on two accounts, a, he had met her before, as proven by the photograph, but more importantly at his deposition, as you mentioned, when shown that photo, he testified under oath, that's my wife, yeah, it's marla, meaning marla maples, having already testified that marla maples was exactly his type, and sean ycrowley used tha to devastating effect, i thought in

prosecutor who has been in exactly that position where you finish the facts and make your decision, joyce vance, and a former very senior doj official, former acting solicitor genera what do you think about this hail mary to gag mike pence and what does that tell you about trump's legal strategy or what he's worried would come out and any other thoughts on the smith probe? >> sure. i think we can always define trump's legal strategy as delay. this is delay based, because as you point out, ari, the issues that are involved here, which center around executive privilege, have been litigated extensively. other people he tried to assert that privilege have already been ordered by the court to testify. i guess the one thing that's left hanging here is the possibility that there could be an effort to put this issue in front of the united states supreme court. that would involve additional delay. and it's very likely, i think, the court will simply decline to hear that issue and let the court of appeals decision stand. i'd be interested in neil's views on that. when it comes to pence's testimony, it's

. >> joyce vance, mike schmidt, rick stengle, thank you all so much for sticking around and having a conversation none of us planned on having when we got to this table today our breaking news coverage continues now on "the beat" with ari melber ari, has there been a day this week when you came on at 6:00 and covered the story you thought you would at 9 or 12:00? >> no, and i am indebted to you, nicolle. stick around for a second. i'm prepared to cover this breaking story, broke late in your show. but listening to the conversations you were having is great preparation. you were discussing how we got here mike pence, a key witness, breaking news that he faced the doj today. but how this would have happened whether garland be the doj -- something you've spoken about with your deep knowledge of government, something they were very late to i know you often turn to hip-hop and lyrics to make sense of things i do that sometimes as well. but it is a fact that attorney general garland overseeing the larger probe initially was late. there's an artist out of hg county redville who says, i can'

joyce vance, thank you for joining us this morning, i appreciate you, as always. >> thanks, katie. >>ss with the house of mouse. disney large is a massive lawsuit against florida governor ron desantis and others who are reportedly -- making donors overseas ahead every presidential bid. we're sorting out all of this disney desantis drama straight ahead. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. mara, are you sure you don't want -to go bowling with us tonight? -yeah. no. there's my little marzipan! [ laughs ] oh, my daughter gives the best hugs! we're just passing through on our way to the jazz jamboree. [ imitates trumpet playing ] and we wanted to thank america's number-one motorcycle insurer -for saving us money. -thank you. [ laughs ] mara, your parents are -- exactly like me? i know, right? well, cherish your friends and loved ones. let's roll, daddio! let's boogie-woogie! how to grow more vibrant flowers: step one: feed them with miracle-gro shake 'n feed. that's it. miracle-gro. all you need to know to grow. how to grow delicious herbs: step one: use miracle-gro potting mix. that's i

. >> i want to put up a part of a piece that joyce vance wrote because she talks about the weakness hereer story, it is our society's failure to protect victims of sexual assault from secondary victimization, which results in sucking the low rates of reporting and prosecution for sex crimes. the jury may well believe carroll and understand her reaction of a product of how victims are forced to move on without justice in a society that punishes them for being attacked. what do you make of this? >> look, i think it's a great point by joyce. this trial is always between to people but it is a social test as well. 20 years ago, i think the conventional wisdom would have been, especially a crippled, trial really really important to bear in mind. it's a civil, trial and it's preponderance of -- man, this is a tough case. so the question will, be whether the jury of six men and three women can understand and appreciate how is that you could start out an encounter in a playful bantering way, and in no way excuses a brutal rape that occurs after. and also, understand why a woman would keep quiet f

joining us now, former assistant district attorney rebecca rofrey, joyce vance, yamiche alcindor, jonathanire, andrew weissmann is still with u us rebecca, what is typical about the next few hours and what won't? >> i think some of the security measures will be different the d.a.'s office is used to a great deal of media attention. this is different. because it's the secret service, the way in which he comes in may be different and the way in which he proceeds to the courtroom may be different once he gets there, i imagine the proceedings will be similar. these proceedings are routine. not a lot of drama normally happens during arraignment we will see if those proceed the way they have in other cases >> joyce, what are you watching for when the 30 some charges we think are in that indictment are unsealed how does this go from a misdemeanor for a felony, potentially? >> right that's exactly, i think, what we will all be looking at for these charges of business record falsification to become felonies, that conduct has to have been committed to further or to conceal another crime. the questio

joyce vance, andrew weizmann thank you both so much for coming to the program.the indictment o former president donald trump. he will be joined by reveren al sharpton, katie thanks, simone sanders, and myself we will cover the latest developments and what might be next for the former president. watch special coverage tomorrow, at 6 pm eastern, only on msnbc >> and straight ahead, presidential historian michael beschloss takes us inside th historic nature, and the implication of this trum indictment after the break! stay with us was a great decision. like when i decided to host family movie nights. miracle-ear made it easy. i just booked an appointment and a certified hearing care professional evaluated my hearing loss and helped me find the right device calibrated to my unique hearing needs. now i enjoy every moment. the quiet ones and the loud ones. make a sound decision. call 1-800 miracle now, and book your free hearing evaluation. mara, are you sure you don't want -to go bowling with us tonight? -yeah. no. there's my little marzipan! [ laughs ] oh, my daught

attorney, now msnbc legal analyst, joyce vance. and the host of msnbc's "inside with jen psaki," jen psaki she's former white house press secretary. great group this morning. >> huge show. >> lot to get to. >> huge show a lot of news. >> it's massive. >> yeah. >> by the way, willie, i don't know if you saw, but, i mean, look, mika. >> what? >> just all over twitter. >> why no, i'm not. >> no, all over. >> i retweeted some of your tweets from poland they were amazing. >> you're trending all over twitter, and twitter is all over you. >> i think i know what you're talking about. >> let me just say, does willie know what i'm talking about? >> i -- >> the $12 tank top she's wearing right now. >> oh. >> what do you call it, cami >> personal is the word, but it's true. >> $12 tank top on twitter >> i think it was less than $12. >> purchased it on twitter or they're talking about it on twitter? >> i made a purchase on twitter, and i'm worried all my information is, like, going to the chinese. you know what? i got the greatest deal. >> you

help me with the reaction to abby's revelations in the complaint, i want to bring in some friends joyce vances idea she was asked to spy on maria and report back to her bosses who she was completely terrified of, not wanting to disappointment them, wanting to rise through the company, that was is most blunt description of a request inside fox management to spy on another anchor had you heard stories like that before >> reporter: i have not. i think that the key thing in all this right now is really what she's saying about the culture that she experienced at the network, what's she's bringing forward in her workplace suit i think everything else aside, a lot ofwhat we're talking about was material in terms of the dominion suit. going forward, the sensitivity that i'm picking up on is about workplace culture and something that fox has really talked about addressing over years and years after previous suits involving roger ails, bill o'reilly, that's the most material subject. >> to that point she describes something so chilling about tucker carlson's show, the anti-semitism, racism and the miso

. >> joyce vance, thank you so much for coming on and explaining the weird logistics for a case like this appreciate it. and that's going to do it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right now. >>> hi, everyone i know that we say this a lot these days but buckle up it's 4:00 in new york. we're following breaking news on that monster $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against fox news just a little bit ago we received word of a bombshell of a plot twist during what was supposed to be the last pretrial hearing before jury selection begins. here's that headline the judge has sanctioned fox news and its parent company, fox corp, for withholding evidence in the dominion defamation suit and said he is considering further investigation and censure. he is considering appointing a special master to investigate the fox local team's actions now, the breaking point today appears to be surprise evidence that was introduced in court today when this happened, quote, lawyers for dominion voting systems played recordings that fox news producer abby grossberg made during 2020, which were not hand

. >> molly, joyce vance, a regular on the show, a friend of the show, wrote in an nbc op-ed, quote, the society's failure to protect victims of sexual assault from secondary victimization. i thought that was a very powerful and poignant summary of where this trial stands, and specifically, where e. jean carroll fits in all of this. >> yeah, i think that's absolutely true. remember, e. jean is, you know, she's a writer. she's a public person. she has been on television. she is having a much easier time. she is much more prepared to testify than just a normal person who has never had to take this kind of -- public fire. i think it's really kind of heartbreaking. there are so many allegations, and then we have e. jean being treated like a criminal by joe tacopina. in just a really brutal cross-examination. i think that ultimately, again, we don't know what the jury's going to decide. but it was cruel, and it was misogyny stick. i think, you know, the reality is that there is a lot of misogyny in this case. there's a lot of misogyny in supporting of -- multiple allegations. and saying it do