attorney joyce vance, who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. stuck out to you in today's closing arguments? >> so, it's such a different landscape if you are the plaintiff, carol, or the defendant trump. because, this is in federal court, even though it's a civil case. carol has to convince a unanimous jury to find in her favor, and that's reflected in the arguments that her lawyers are making. but for trump, it's very different. he only needs one juror to hang this whole thing up, she refused to find in carroll's favor. and so you sense that in tacopina's argument, where there's very much an argument being made in hopes that there is one juror out there who might agree that carole it didn't act in the way that they want a victim to behave. >> then if carroll doesn't win here, and trump gets what he is looking for, will he be able to continue the arguments he's making about tish james, or alvin bragg, that he can never be looked at in a fair way in new york, because this towns against? him >> so, trump will always make that argument, no matter

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joining me is susan page, sam stein and joyce vance, who is still with us. e friends for a long time before this happened. i want to put that out there. can she sue the former president for the third time based on his public statements? >> she can sue. i think the question here is more of a tactical one. because trump's comments were made in new hampshire, the lawsuit would have to be brought there. she's already been compensated for damages to her reputation. of course, she could still seek punitive damages here. when you think about a situation like that where you have someone who is in essence held accountable by a jury for defamation and then turns right around and makes those same comments in a public forum, perhaps a second lawsuit is merited. of course, it seems like an enormous burden to put on the shoulder of one woman the grotesque behavior of donald trump when it comes to women. >> does it have any impact on his appeal? the prospects for his appeal, perhaps -- >> it won't. the appeal will be based on the trial record and whether or not the judge co

with me now, nbc's legal analyst, joyce vance. joyce, we have a lot to talk about. joining us. this payment made for consulting work done by ginni thomas. in which there was this idea of no mention of ginni in the payment. from kellyanne conway. did justice thomas have illegal and or at the go obligation to report this? money we >> of course he, did yasmin. the entire landscape here is predicated on the notion that judges, including supreme court justices, should avoid any appearance of impropriety. and that is why you bend over backwards. i did the same thing as a u.s. attorney, you go above and beyond what you need to disclose so people can have confidence in your integrity. but here we are right in the heartland of the sort of information that needs to be disclosed about a spouse's income and the fact that it wasn't is very troubling. >> here's what leonard leo is saying about, that the work she did here did not involve anything connected with either the courts business or with other legal issues. knowing how disrespectful, malicious and gossip people people can

attorney joyce vance, you have a personal connection to this case.al prosecution and investigation dating back to 2010. remained us of your history with this case and your reaction to this new development. >> well, that's right, ana, in 2010 my former office, the united states attorney's office for the northern district of alabama indicted joran van der sloot for extortion and wire fraud connected to his effort to get a quarter of a million dollars from natalie holloway's mom to reveal the location of her body, and he didn't do that. in fact, he gave some bad information to the family continuing the difficult situation that they were already in. because natalie holloway's body has never been recovered, there has never been murder charges in alabama or anywhere else, but if joran van der sloot is returning to the united states to face these charges, that would be some form of justice for natalie. >> so he's being extradited here in connection with this fraud and extortion case. how much legal trouble is he facing, and do you think he'll ever face murd

attorney joyce vance, who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. joyce, were you surprised by this decision? >> you know, in any other case, with any other defendant, i would be surprised. but not in this case. this seems like, really, the only option for the former president here. it's a civil case, not a criminal case, that he doesn't run the risk of going to prison, and the real problem in this case is, what do you put on as a defense? it's really tough to get there. i have known e. jean carroll for years, we are good friends. but setting that aside, when you look at the evidence in this case, it is very one-sided. and if trump, for instance, had wanted to deny it, he would have had to have taken the witness stand to do that himself. instead, he was content to let the jury hear his deposition testimony. it is not favorable for him. it was not a strong leg for the defense to stand on. and really, all that they can do at this point is continue to attack e. jean carroll. >> had he had -- had donald trump taken the stand, he would have done so under

joining me now is joyce vance, former u.s. t of the sister in law podcasts. joyce, thank you so much for being here tonight. i don't have a lot degree, but a lot of people do, and a lot are working for donald trump and also have testified either to federal investigators or in front of the federal grand jury. i want to pull up this graphic we have. i think there are seven trump lawyers, by our account, who have either testified to the grand jury that the special counsel has convened or met with the doj investigators on this. that seems like an unusually high number to me, joyce. because that seemed like a lot of lawyers for you, joyce? and if you think that these lawyers are emerging as potential liabilities for donald trump? >> it does seem like an exceptionally high number, alex. to give context, and doj prosecutors are required by policy to be very careful what they are doing with someone's lawyers, especially when someone is a target. i think it's safe to assume that in this case, people are being extremely rigorous up follo

joining me now is joyce vance, former u.s. rney for the northern district of alabama and of course co-host of the sisters-in-law podcast. joyce, thanks for being here tonight. i don't have a law degree, but a lot of people do and a lot of them are working for donald trump and also have testified either to federal investigators or in front of the federal grand jury. i want to pull up this graphic we have. i think there are seven trump lawyers by our count who have testified to the grand jury the special counsel's convened or met with the doj investigators on this. that seems like a high number to me, joyce. and do you think those lawyers are emerging as potential liabilities for donald trump? >> it does seem like an exceptionally high number, alex. and to give a bit of context doj prosecutors are expect today be veriful when they're dealing with someone's lawyers especially when that someone is a target. and i think it's safe to assume in this case people are being extremely rigorous about following those policies. for instance,

joining me now is erin mclaughlin in idaho and former attorney joyce vance here in washington.reporter: well, the proceeding lasted some 15 minutes. it was a dramatic proceeding as the names of the victims were head out in court. the family of one of the victims openly sobbed. those charges were read by the judge. kohberger was asked if he understood the charges. he said yes. also according to an nbc producer inside the courtroom, the judge asked for kohberger to enter a plea. at that point, ko berger's lawyer said that he would be standing silent, which is an option here in idaho. in that case, the judge then entered a not guilty plea on all counts on behalf of kohberger. this was a possibility going into today. although legal experts told me that would be very unusual for him to stand silent. we know previously he told a prior attorney he believes he will be exonerated in all of this. a trial date has been set for october 2nd. and now the prosecution has 60 days to declare whether or not they are going to be pursuing the death penalty in this case. >> and joyce vance, what is

attorney joyce vance, also an msnbc legal analyst. so, joyce, good morning.you ever see potential legal issues that could arise from these reports? >> right. so there are a lot of issues that are raised here. and i think at this point squarely presenting is the issue of whether clarence thomas can continue to serve on the supreme court. that's an issue in the first instance for the justice to determine himself, which is this awkward conversation we have been having about how the supreme court essentially is unbridled when it comes to ethics issues and they're the masters of their own fates in this regard. but this new evidence does raise the specter of potential additional legal issues. at a bare minimum, this violates the canons of judicial ethics, which tell judges they should avoid even the appearance of impropriety. and we can see that in leo's statement. he doesn't defend the conduct. he doesn't make any effort to acknowledge the fact that they hid this payment. we know it is always the cover-up. and that alone is enough to make it clear that there is so

with me now to discuss my dear friend joyce vance, who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. rmer president of the united states doubling down on what he said about grabbing women's genitals on that access hollywood tape. what do you think about that? he is also the current potential front runner in the republican party. >> so i will answer that question with my former prosecutor hat on and say that while this is a civil case that e. jean carroll has, brought that is the kind of evidence that any lawyer would want to have in a courtroom in a case like this. whether it is a criminal rape case or a defamation and battery case, when you've got a defendant who makes this kind of a comment especially when he uses the word fortunately when discussing the sweep of history in regard to women's bodily integrity you've got to feel good about your case. >> okay, this one was a shocker to many. i want you to take a look at what happened when trump was shown a photograph of himself with e. jean carroll. >> this is a black and white photograph that was marked as -- >> i don't know this woma

sometimes juries will hang on some of the charges. >> thanks so much to joyce vance. n't think of two better ways to understand this than joyce and ryan. thank you both. >>> hollywood writers taking to the picket line after negotiations fail overnight. what it means for your favorite shows, coming up next. >>> love and loss. my conversation with my friend luke russert about how he learned to live after the death of his father, former "meet the press" moderator tim russert nearly 15 years ago. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. msnc so it's decided, we'll park even deeper into parking spaces so people think they're open. surprise. [ laughs ] [ horn honks, muffled talking ] -can't hear you, jerry. -sorry. uh, yeah, can we get a system where when someone's bike is in the shop, then we could borrow someone else's? -no! -no! or you can get a quote with america's number-one motorcycle insurer and maybe save some money while you're at it. all in favor of that. [ horn honking ] there's a lot of buttons and knobs in here. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools, lik

joining me now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, professor at the university of alabama law school, and msnbc legal analyst. and david k. johnston, founding of dcreport.org and author of the big cheat, how donald trump fleeced america and enriched himself and his family. you have been covering trump a long time. one would think he at least knows the difference between marla maples, ivana, and a woman he says he didn't know her at all and yet he points to e. jean carroll, let me put the picture up, and say, oh, yeah, that's marla. and it wasn't. what does that say about him, that and the fact he couldn't remember what year he was married to ivana, what year he was married to marla, and wouldn't even answer about when he was married to his current wife, melania? >> to donald, all women look alike. it's as simple as that. they're not human beings. donald sees all the rest of us as objects. and he's been this way, i have known him for 35 years. he's been that way from the beginning. he's very stategic about people who he think

joyce vance, always a pleasure.h. >>> and still ahead, a dark time for women's reproductive rights in america. but, if recent elections are any kind, that may be changing sooner than any republicans would like. i go by jackie. i'm 44 years old. i had three kids at the time and single mother. i was working 60 hours a week, still couldn't pay the bills, skipped meals so that they could eat. it's been hard cause one thing falls into place, ten things fall out of place. you know, it just can't do this alone and make it work. one in eight children face hunger in america and food costs are rising, but everyone needs nourishing food to thrive. and they can when we work together so our neighbors can feed their families. call or go online right now to join feeding america® with your gift of just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. together, thanks to a nationwide network of food banks, dedicated volunteers and the monthly support of people like you. we can fill plates with nutritious food for families across america. one day my m

olivia beavers, joyce vance, great to see you in person. frank, great to see you. when we come back, just as governor desantis prepares to announce a run for president, one of his states biggest, and dare i say, most beloved employers has pulled the plug on a billion dollar development. carlos curbelo and conor lamb are here on that. later, you don't want to go to bed early tonight. it is the most under reported story out there. chinese chemical companies, mexican drug cartels, and the deadly fentanyl crisis on u. s. soil. this is a story you cannot miss. the 11th hour is just getting underway on a thursday night. underway on a thursday night. as a business owner, your bottom line is always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network, with no line activation fees or term contracts... saving you up to 75% a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost you

olivia beavers, joyce vance, great to see you in person. frank, great to see you. when we come back, just as governor desantis prepares to announce a run for president, one of his states biggest, and dare i say, most beloved employers has pulled the plug on a billion dollar development. carlos curbelo and conor lamb are here on that. later, you don't want to go to bed early tonight. it is the most under reported story out there. chinese chemical companies, mexican drug cartels, and the deadly fentanyl crisis on u.s. soil. this is a story you cannot miss. the 11th hour is just getting underway on a thursday night. ht the no7 then... it's amazing! hydrates better than the expensive stuff i don't live here, so i'm taking this and whatever's in the back. it's already sold in the us. but i'm not taking any chances. the uk's #1 skincare has crossed the pond. when it comes to your hair, ingredients matter. that's why herbal essences is packed with naturally derived plant ingredients you love, and none of the stuff you don't. our sulfate-free collections smell incredible..

also with us, nbc legal analyst joyce vance. gabe, bring us up to date with what's going on on the ground, particularly given what we're hearing about the lack of cooperation from the suspect. >> reporter: several new pieces of information we learned from the news conference. that suspect charged with eight counts of manslaughter. his name is george alvarez. authorities saying he had an extensive criminal record. they have not ruled out whether or not this crash was intentional. that's something that they're looking at right now. authorities did say, however, that the suspect ran a red light -- actually the red light that's just behind me, and that he lost control of his vehicle, an suv, and it slammed into that group of migrants, all men waiting at this bus stop. again, eight people killed, ten others injured. the mayor saying some of them remain in critical condition. right after the crash, authorities describe the scene of what happened. take a listen. >> the investigation also revealed that the driver of the vehicle later id

joyce vance is the former u.s. attorney who signed van der sloot's indictment back in 2010. >> without a body, a murder prosecution wasn't possible. it may never be possible, but this is still a form of justice for natalee holloway. >> reporter: van der sloot is accused of offering to tell natalee's family how she died and where she was buried in exchange for the money. authorities say he was given an initial payment of $25,000 >> he took her attorney to a site he said the body was located at, but the body wasn't there, and he subsequently acknowledged that in emails. >> reporter: an attorney for van der sloot tells the associated press they will fight extradition, but in a statement, natalee's mother, beth holloway, wrote in part, "the persistence of many is going to pay off together we are finally getting justice for natalee. kristen dahlgren, nbc news, new york >>> after that town hall with donald trump, the woman who sued him and won a $5 million verdict against him this week is considering a new defamation sui

also with us is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, co-host of the sisters in law podcast. and joyce, thanks for being. here devlin, let me start with you in terms of your reporting. and the reporting that is out there. does this timeline surprise you? that the special counsel may, in fact, be wrapping up? >> so, i think wrapping up sometime in the eye of the beholder. it is certainly true there are a lot of indicators. showing they have done, let's call it, a majority of the investigative work here. but i feel like we also have to caution folks, prosecutors have a habit of doing what bob mueller used to call, playing with their food. i don't think you should assume, just because a lot of the grand jury work has been done that the prosecutors themselves are ready to move to the next step. we see, to be honest, and a lot of federal mastication, we see time and time again, how the decision-making process can actually get bogged down. that's a big question right now. i think in terms of the special counsel. >> i like that metaphor, disturbing, though it may be to some, joyce,

with me now to discuss my dear friend joyce vance former u.s. ubling down on what he said about grabbing women's genitals on that access hollywood tape. what do you think about that? he is also the current potential front runner in the republican party. >> so i will answer that question with my former prosecutor hat on and say that while this is a civil case that e. jean carroll has, brought that is the kind of evidence that any lawyer would want to have in a courtroom in a case like this. whether it is a criminal rape case or a defamation and battery case, when you've got a defendant who makes this kind of a comment especially when he uses the word fortunately when discussing the sweep of history in regard to women's bodily integrity you've got to feel good about your case. >> okay, this one was a shocker to many. i want you to take a look at what happened when trump was shown a photograph of himself with e. jean carroll. >> this is a black and white photograph that was marked as t.j. t20 three. >> i don't know this woman. it's marlowe? >> you'r

mike schmidt, joyce vance, thank you very much for being part of this.posed to be our start. thank you for staying longer than any of you planned. claire will stick around a little bit longer. >>> labeling the study of race and gender in america as niche. florida's governor says the state universities will not be teaching those lessons, he calls them distractions, we'll talk about his reshaping of university education, next. k about his reshaping of university education, next from , especially at night? try vicks sinex for instant relief that lasts up to 12 hours. vicks sinex targets congestion at the source, relieving nasal congestion, and sinus pressure by reducing swelling in the sinuses. try vicks sinex. i brought in ensure max protein with 30g of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uh... here i'll take that. -everyone: woo hoo! ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, one gram of sugar. enter the nourishing moments giveaway for a chance to win $10,000. (vo) in three seconds, this couple will share a perfect moment. gi

attorney joyce vance a back. donny deutsch is also at the table.d charlie sykes is still with us. mike, you name names. you put this legal strategy that resulted in nearly a billion dollar settlement at the feet. explain. >> i think that what struck us is that when you took a step back, it wasn't just the amount of money they had to pay which was the largest known settlement in a defamation case. but it was the fact that they find themselves in the same place that they didn't want to be in the aftermath of the election. in the days after the election, because they had called arizona for biden, they see their ratings go down. they see the consequences of that. they see them going to newsmax. maria bartiromo finds a way back with the viewers through sydney powell. and it was heading down that path that they found themselves in this defamatory territory. but it is not just the defamation that last cost them here. they had their reputation with all these internal messages further sullied by the disclosures that came out in the past few months. and they

attorneys who run an entire one of these offices who handle these complex cases, david kelly and joyce vance. >> david, your thoughts as i've laid out sort of what's happening in a time of apparently rising accountability. >> well, it's a dramatic day in so far as they've convicted yet others of sedition conspiracy. seditious conspiracy is rarely used. not really used because it's a difficult statute to prove. it's rarely used because he haven't faced challenges to the democracies -- to the democracy that seditious specious was intended to address. so i think it's very dramatic in that way. i think it's some vindication of, you know, what the government, what the january 6th committee has done in term of unveiling what happened today, and you know, it's kind of a teaser, too, with what more is to come as we see the special prosecutor's investigation continue. >> joyce? >> so, today's conviction makes you ask, what comes next? is it all over? and while i think david and i -- something we would agree upon is something we at least know publicly, what doj has, there's nothing that suggests that

. >> joyce vance, as always, thank you very much. good to see you.vide in washington over how to avoid a debt default and a deadline is rapidly approaching. purple is different. soft and firm, in all your right places. the gelflex grid keeps you cool, while sleep does it's scientifically proven thing. rise sharper, happier, an overnight success. hi, i'm katie. i live in flagstaff, arizona. i'm an older student. i'm getting my doctorate in clinical psychology. i do a lot of hiking and kayaking. i needed something to help me gain clarity. so i was in the pharmacy and i saw a display of prevagen and i asked the pharmacist about it. i started taking prevagen and i noticed that i had more cognitive clarity. memory is better. it's been about two years now and it's working for me. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. this week is your chance to try any subway footlong for free. like the subway series menu. just buy any footlong in the app, and get one free. everyone loves free stuff chuck. can we get peyton a footlong? get it before it's g

attorney joyce vance. what can we expect at this detention hearing at 3:30 eastern time today?is, as often happens during these things, we're seeing two starkly different portrayals of this defendant in these court records and we're likely to see that in the hearing. this is the second detention hearing. teixeira's lawyers want him to be released to his father's house without access to the internet or weapons. they say there are ring cameras that would keep him secure. they portray him as a misguided youth that didn't anticipate that the stuff he leaked would go widely to the public. prosecutors say he knew exactly what he was doing. they presented a lot of evidence to show that he hid more unsavory aspects of his character, including a lot of extremist and racists post on social media. they verified a video that shows him uttering horrific racial slurs and firing an assault rifle. as you said, they said that he's a flight risk and foreign adversaries have every interest in trying to help him escape because of the classified information he may still have in his head. >> what do

with the hashtag sisters in law, the hashtag women -- geelong, thanks kimberly atkins store, and joyce vancel be live onset with alicia menendez. they will talk about everything from abortion rights to the controversy around justice clarence thomas. and of course, the mountain of legal drama facing donald trump. american voices at 60 am eastern right here on msnbc. and coming up, travel advisory, america's gun obsession, have a ripple effect across the world. he has seven foreign nations warning their citizens to think twice about traveling to the united states. as the center summer tours of seasons heats up, we have more of the katie phang show ahead. keep it right here on msnbc. n msnbc. trying vapes to quit smoking might feel like progress, but with 3x more nicotine than a pack of cigarettes - vapes increase cravings - trapping you in an endless craving loop. nicorette reduces cravings until they're gone for good. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-

let's bring if hugo lowell and joyce vance. >> so, donald trump appears in this case to be in a cornerf a certain basketball team, the boston celtics, jonathan lemire. >> oh no. >> in a corner, man. down 3-0. come on. what in the world has happened? >> that was unexpected segue there, joe. thanks a lot. >> swerved off the road on that one. >> you did. the celtics lost two tough games at home where they collapsed down the stretch, and last night in miami, they embarrassed themselves. they got blown out and looked like they quit in the second half. it was a really poor showing. i expect them to get swept. my only solace is the lakers are also down 3-0. but joe, we should take a moment to note this. any time any team in any sport in any playoff series is down 3-0, what is invoked? the 2004 boston red sox. so, we will always have that. and i'm clinging to it this morning. >> well, you got to cling to something. by the way, a lot of screaming yesterday in katty's household. >> what? no. >> yeah, the police had to be called. >> oh, come on. >> because it got so loud over the weekend because

attorney joyce vance, thank you very being with us. former watergate prosecutor, john sale, thank you, as well. appreciate it. >>> new video out of kyiv this morning shows ukraine air defense systems at work. "reuters" reports air-raid sirens echoed throughout ukraine this morning for more than three hours. russian missile strike on eastern ukraine injured over 30 people. the country's commander in chief says 15 of 18 launched missiles were struck down around the country. including every missile directed at kyiv. it's the latest news out of a war preparing for its next chapter, with ukraine readying its forces for a possible counteroffensive. let's bring in right now editor in chief of "the atlantic," jeffrey goldberg, and chief staff writer at "the atlantic," anne applebaum. jeffrey, extraordinarily busy time, obviously, in ukraine. you have attacks on crimea over the weekend. you have the spring offensive reportedly coming up. you've got possibility of china stepping in, trying to strike some sort of peace deal, even though a lot of

and let's bring in the once again senior legal correspondent laura jarrett and nbc legal analyst joyce vanceon the e. jean carroll case. i'm not sure if she was on anyone's bingo card even a few months ago as a case we might see or that we were anticipating in the early parts of this year. but we still have the georgia case. we still have the alvin bragg case. we still have the classified documents case at mar-a-lago, and the january 6th case. so what is your expectation for how the next few months and the rest of this year is going to go, joyce? >> right. so this will be a litigation heavy year for donald trump. and unlike this case, katie, which was a civil case, the cases you're identifying are all criminal cases. and the difference obviously is at the end of those cases that trump is held accountable, he faces a prison sentence not just a significant fine like the $5 million in damages that were awarded to carroll in this case. but also that litigation becomes cumulative. we know already that the judge in manhattan has tentatively set a trial date for trump early next year in the middle

i also have former federal prosecutor joyce vance. your response, this news that just crossed the wire, breaking moments ago, controversial republican congressman george santos federally indicted. >> we know that there's an indictment, but it is still under seal, which means we don't know the specifics of the charges. i think renato is correct, though. appears as though the public integrity section -- that's a group inside main justice in washington that's often involved when political figures are under investigation, and it was clear that they were looking at some sort of false statements on campaign finance admissions. that's likely the four of these charges here. but because this involves a sitting member of congress, this was absolutely reviewed in top offices at doj before the u.s. attorney in new york and before the public integrity section could have made a final decision they could have sent what's called a urgent report to the deputy attorney general's office, and lisa monaco, if she wasn't in the loop earlier, which i suspec

and also joyce vance and katty kay. so nice to have you at the table. and you've done a good job at sort of telling us what is important and what you think the jury is latching on it. >> i think what the jury is latching on to is that e. jean carroll is a perfectly imperfect victim. and what i think the plaintiff's lawyers are hoping that they will see is by acknowledging all the ways in which her story doesn't comport with what we expect out of a rape victim and sort of owning those problems in her narrative, that she comes across as all the more credible. the other thing that i think the jury is taking away, is this not a he said/she said. it is more of a rings that you cut down. at the very core is e. jean carroll's story and one ring out is the story from her friend. and the second friend she told. and further out are the people who also had similar expenses to e. jean carroll. jessica leeds and we heard from today and also a writer from a magazine that says that he assaulted her at mar-a-lago. >> and you've written about how some of -- and we were

attorney joyce vance points out robs trump of the usual attack he uses against his enemies. >> judgere. he calls trump's bluff. he says okay, your client says he's going to testify. he says he has to leave europe early and fly home. i'm going to bend over backwards and give him every opportunity. what the judge does here is he forecloses trump's opportunity to tell everybody what a terrible biased judge he had and how they prejudiced him and didn't let him testify. he has had every opportunity here. >> which brings us to today's news, where closing arguments in the trial just finished off in the last hour. e. jean carroll's lawyer roberta kaplan reiterated to the jury that no person, not even an ex-president, is above the law. she used trump's own words against him, saying that through his taped deposition, quote, trump is a witness against himself. she also went over the clip we played at the top of the hour, saying that by confusing carroll with his ex-wife marla maples trump proved his own defense wrong, carroll actually was his type. in her closing argument kaplan also argues thi