i'm here with ken gormley. we are talking about his new book which is "the death of american virtue: clinton v. starr." before we get into this book let me find out of the bit about yourself. >> guest: i grew up in pittsburgh. i somehow went astray and went to harvard law school. after i get out of law school i went back home and i teach currently. i am the interim dean at duquesne university. >> host: how long have you been teaching law? >> guest: constitutional law. teaching for about 20 years. practiced law, but during all that time i kept writing. i have done writing throughout my career. i find that it keeps me energized. some of these book projects, they take a little bit of time. they are different than writing for newspapers and magazines. i enjoy it a lot. >> host: have you done that as well? >> guest: yes, i have done that throughout my career. early on in my career i would do a feature stories for newspapers in pittsburgh and kind of character studies. i found it helps a lot in tackling big books of

well, ken starr is also a gentleman.get to the solicitor general of the united states by just being some rugged is a one-of-a-kind and he wasn't i don't believe. a really kind person and i brought him to do kaine university in 2000 when i first started working on this book and all of my democratic friends were saying what are you doing bringing ken starr, what is wrong with you? then they came and saw him and said boy, she's really impressive. so this is what i tried to do is judge people on my own. i tried to talk to everyone myself, not using the one-dimensional characters the media often creates. >> host: white you think he took on the task? >> guest: i don't know. that's a great question. i will tell you in his mind, ken said he was called to service and i believe that. he was in implored to do this just as when he was in part to the solicitor general and give up his seat in the u.s. court of appeals and he told me he went back into his chambers and wept like a baby -- >> host: he loved being a judge. >> guest: yaki

ken starr is also a gentleman. you don't get to be solicitor general of the united states by just being some rabid zealots of any kind. and he wasn't i don't believe. and a really kind of person. and they brought him to duquesne university in 2001 at first are working on this book. and all of my democratic friends are saying what are you doing bringing ken starr? what's wrong with you? then they came and saw him and said he is really impressive fellow. this is what i tried to do is judge people on my own. i try to talk to everyone myself, not using these one dimensional, dimensional caricatures that the media often creates. >> host: why do you think he took on the task? >> guest: i don't know. that's a great question. i will tell you, in his mind, can said that he was called acerbic and i believe that. he was implored to do this, just as when he was implored to be solicitor general and give up his seat in the u.s. court of appeals and he told he would back into his chambers and wept like a baby. >> host: you love b

>> guest: i did in a number of different ways and of course ten-- ken being ken, he still would have done it because he was called to do this and he doesn't look back over his shoulder. he did, i had a number of conversations with him where i told him my view that i thought it was the biggest mistake was expanding into the monica lewinsky matter. i think he was the last person in the world who should have handled that because rightly or wrongly in large segment of the . >> host: a final question. does he, looking back at his career as independent counsel, recognize where he made mistakes or his office made mistakes. put aside the question of taking on the monica lewinsky matter. whether he was too slow in coming up of the results of the whitewater investigation, where he should not that testified. to what extent has ken starr looked back and said, these for some mistakes and i could have done better or the office should have gone another way? >> guest: well, i would have to go back there and see if there are specific examples. i think in general, ken's do you is his office did the be

ken bensinger, david welch, thank you both. ken bensinger, to you first. of all the toyota models now, how many are involved in some sort of recall or investigation? >> i don't want to get the number wrong it seems to grow every single day. i believe it's approaching about 15 different models that are involved in one or more recalls. it's important to note there's some overlap there. some vehicles are in two recalls and some vehicles you can't even buy in the u.s. are now being recalled in japan, for example. >> woodruff: tell us what's behind this latest prius recall. what's the problem? >> apparently there's a problem with the braking system in this. it's computer-controlled system that has to do with the high-tech brakes that a hybrid has. and they're anti-lock braking system. toyota is saying it's a software glitch they can fix. what's interesting about it is that toyota said they knew about the fix and had it implemented on the assembly line some time ago which raises questions about how long they knew about this problem. >> woodruff: david welch, in

you got a little bit of take a look and see what ken bone was so hot about.thought that was aul on boykin. probably had a legitimate argument. it did cost him a "t." now gutierrez will go to the line. >> don: a seven-point game. how quickly it turns. that's why home teams have the advantage. this crowd affected washington state. they got fed up a little bit. give cal's defense some credit for creating some of that. once you get the crowd going and the game gets a little bit frantic, it can get away from you. >> barry: now there will be a sense of urgency. cal on a 7-0 run has given them their biggest lead of the game. they lead by eight. baseline, gives it up in the corner this time. it's going to be out of bounds to washington state. thursday night, ahead by 18 with ten minutes to go in the game. >> don: you knew cal was going to make a run at them. we both talked about it at halftime. there's no way washington state is going away. they got them pretty good in the last few minutes. >> barry: a battle for the rebound, robertson yanks it away from casto. >> do

>> very closely with ken. with boe was harder. he's a stubborn character and he didn't want to speak to me for a long time eckert he would work with his own of lawyers for a long time. he had problems with the way they were handling his case and he said he can be a difficult person and that was something interesting to me. to see lawyers working on behalf of someone who wasn't even cooperating with them on top of everything else difficult about the field, even their own client wasn't working well with them. >> you said it took a few years to put together the book. how much time was research versus writing, did you travel a lot? >> i did travel a lot considered a work of emerging journalism which is different to pilaf when you live in a west virginia and the case you are writing about is north carolina so i had to go down there a lot. i think it took something like 17 trips over the four and have your period including one month i just moved my whole family down and looked down there for a month. >> who do you want to read this book

later on, ken lewis, the former ceo of bank of america, went to the government and said, we need help to get this done. and the attorney general is saying, well, that amounted to fraud. ali, we should also mention that bank of america is saying these charges are absolutely without merit, and let me read the statement from bank of america as well. "bank of america and its executives, including ken lewis and joe price, the former cfo, at all times acted in good faith and consistent with their legal and fiduciary obligation, in fact, the s.e.c. had access to this same evidence as the new york attorney general and concluded that there was no basis to enter either a charge of fraud or to charge individuals. the and these executives will vigorously defend ourselves." ali? >> they make an interesting point there. we've invited bank of america on to the show as well as the new york attorney general. let me just ask you about this. it gets confusing as to who is supposed to charge whom. now have the s.e.c. and you have the new york attorney general and then the fbi or the justice department. t

yeah, hey, i was over at ken and janet's house.ill you. i will kill you. i will kill you. i will kill you. i will kill you! i will kill you! i will kill you. i will kill you. i'm going to kill you. i will kill you. i will kill you. i will kill you. i will kill you. i will -- anyway, it's like cedar, and if if you ever smelled that stuff. that's all she wrote. thank you very much. there you go. >> jimmy: dana gould, everybody. we'll be right back. many adults don't meet the recommended daily intake for all vitamins and minerals through diet alone. that's why there's... it helps provide key nutrients your body could be missing. one serving of boost contains twenty-six essential vitamins and minerals plus 10 grams of protein. these nutrients help promote bone health and muscle mass to help keep your body moving. achieve a balanced diet so you can live life to the fullest. find boost in the nutrition isle. brand power. helping you buy better.

ken bone, this year wanted to expand his game more. he has. he's had a terrific start.. the numbers are down a little bit as we take a look at this graphic. but that's only because teams in the pac-10 are saying, look, you ain't getting 25 on us. we're going to have to -- let other people get loose. but he stayed with it and off to a good start here. >> barry: the bears not doing what mike montgomery suggested they would have to do, deny them the catch. they're letting them catch and he's making the catch in transition and making the bears pay, 15-4 run for the cougs. >> don: i believe a lot of it has to do, barry, with them being out in the transition. in the half-court they can limit his touches. it's easier for klay thompson to get open and get going when they're pushing the ball up the floor. >> barry: four for the cougars. everything that's happening as klay thompson is getting the touches that he needs. >> don: he's gotten the ball ten times -- or ten possessions, excuse me, nine touches for klay thompson. >> barry: he got it again there, almost turned it over. ba

york attorney general was filing civil fraud charges against the ceo of bank of america, former ceo ken lewis and the bank's former chief financial officer. they are the first senior managers to face charges in the wake of the financial meltdown. our own senior investigative correspondent lisa myers reports on the fallout. >> reporter: the civil fraud charges against bank of america and former ceo ken lewis stem from the bank's takeover of merrill lynch in 2008. >> certainly the merrill lynch acquisition, in particular, came with risk. >> reporter: lewis and the bank are accused of misleading investors by hiding massive losses at merrill lynch even as shareholders voted on the deal and manipulating the federal government into providing a $20 billion bailout to help deal with the losses. the complaint calls this an enormous fraud on taxpayers. and claims the bank and top management were motivated by greed, hub brings and a palable sense that the normal rules of fair play don't apply to them. legal experts called this a significant development. >> i think the american public wants account

let's talk to ken from dominion power. any power issues this evening? and are you concerned? because unlike the dry snow we've had in the past, this is heavy, wet snow that could perhaps snap a power line. >> the bottom line, yes, we are concerned. thanks for having me on. this storm is different. we expect a

and that is something about ken feinberg the pay czar.doesn't like to be called czar. which was fine. we called him mr. feinberg. think about that. all right. when we come backstop running, start eating. the real skinny on jogging that has the fit in aan snit and me in the fridge. >> neil: all right, i'm not saying fat is where it's at but that does not mean he who runs has tighter buns either. there is a study out today confirms that what i long feared. all you joggers are running in circles, it ain't helping you much at all. which is a fit jennifer agilarti had to hear to have the if it and get her jogging to the studio. don't you dare! jennifer is a trainer on exercise tv. she is so fit it will scare you. a study, one out of five those exercising like thieves got nada from it. >> it don't know what to say. it makes me angry. it's another excuse for particularly americans to sit on the couch and not do anything. see, it's not going to help me. why should i exercise. >> you're sure sitting on the couch isn't exercise. >> thumbs don't cou

. >> hi, i'm ken burns. >> i'm lili taylor. >> i'm henry louis gates jr., and public broadcasting is my source for news about the world. >> for intelligent conversation. >> for election coverage you can count on. >> for conversations beyond the sound bites. >> a commitment to journalism. >> for deciding who to vote for. >> i'm kerri washington, and public broadcasting is my source for intelligent connections to my community. >> bbc world news was presented by kcet, los angeles.

america was the biggest drag on the dow, down 5% after new york's attorney general charged former chief ken lewis and joe price with fraud for allegedly misleading shareholders about the bank's merger with merrill lynch. >>> meanwhile, the dow's only advancer, sisco. despite impressive fourth quarter earnings, sisco only managed to eek out a gain of less than half a percent. >>> mastercard, however, didn't fair as well. while the credit card company posted a 23% jump in profit, shares plunged 10% due to cutbacks in credit card spending. >>> both the "new york times" and the wall street journal are reporting the industrial gas company air products is making an unsolicited offer of $5 billion in cash for its smaller rival air gas. >>> and finally, heinz is catching up with the times, tearing up the tiny tin foil packets and updated design. it has a cup like base perfect for dipping and squeezing and holds three times as much ketchup. nifty there. >> lebron james is at it again, and a coach axes himself. plus, here's yet another reason why they call him the great eight. your early morning spor

ken harvick told his pit guys they looked like a bunch of idiots, but they rebounded to earn him hisationwide win. danica patrick in her last race spouted off about the driver that caused her to wreck. danica patrick will take a four-month break to return to indycar racing. halfway through the race, michael mcdowell was down a lap in the way. caused danica to lose control, go into that other car. danica patrick finished 31st. after that she had a lot to say. >> i learned for sure. we had a good car. we really did. i said that earlier. we have a better car than where we qualified. unfortunately, we got caught in a bad situation with a driver who wasn't looking and probably a spotter who wasn't calling. i probably should have seen the tape on the left rear bumper and shouldn't have been on the left rear bumper. >> here he is, number 33, kevin harvick would go on to win the race. kevin harvick dominating fax gets his first nationwide, denny hamlin second, carl edwards third. danica said after that race the one guy who helped her out was the winner, kevin harvick. he was using his hand o

i think that both sides, and i'm not talking about ken starr personally and president clinton personally. both sides got to the point that they really lost their heads and were ready to win at all costs. there was not restrained. this, i think, is what produced did just collision that occurred here that was not good for the country. i hope in writing this, one of the reasons i spent so much time trying to get this write that really i did think we have to learn that we can never, ever let us get to this point again in the country. it was a devastating event when so many other things were neglected, so many other things were happening. terrorists starting to think about attacks on the u.s. this is what we were focused on. .. >> guest: but i do think that by the time we got to the election, people were so exhausted that they had just enough of this. i do want to say that one of the people as you know in a book that comes out very well is al gore. he doesn't get credit for this but when he stood up for president clinton after the house impeached him and stood in the rose garden, he knew that

the merger was approved but former ceo ken lewis, that guy there, and ex-chief financial officer joe price allegedly tried to back out of the deal claiming the losses were now too high. the only way to make it work would be the government, taxpayers, gave them billions of dollars in bailout cash which is what happened. cuomo says it's an arrogant scheme hatched by executives. it's not a criminal case, which then raises the question, where's the justice in this? if no one is going to do criminal time if they're convicted? senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin joins me now. why isn't this a legal case? >> that's a good question. it's the broader question. think about the magnitude of this crisis. think about the damage that's been done. the amount of bailouts that have been given over the course. and not just to aig. to all the banks. >> also all the shady practices and kind of bets which, you know, are gambling with other people's money that precipitated it all. >> that precipitated it and the number of people who have gone to prison as a result of this entire scandal is zero. >> absolu

. >> hi, i'm ken burns. >> i'm lili taylor. >> i'm henry louis gates, jr., and public broadcasting is my source for news about the world. >> for intelligent conversation. >> for election coverage you can count on. >> for conversations beyond the sound bites. > for deciding who to vote for. >> i'm kerry washington, and public broadcasting is my source for intelligent connections to my community. >> "bbc world news" was presented by kcet, los angeles. thgovernment was urged to hurry up and get on with the executions by sound. iranians in the united states in the west needs to get its

ken feinberg says these bonuses were locked in, as you mentioned, under employment contracts writtenefore the government took over a.i.g. in 2008, before the congress even approved the tarp and its pay restrictions. they are legally binding contracts. but, feinberg says he has the power over future compensation at a.i.g. and will take into account these bonuses in setting new pay levels at the company. >> am i angry about this? absolutely. will i take all of these retention payments into account in my prospective compensation decisions for 2010? absolutely. >> feinberg also says he has gotten these a.i.g. employees to voluntarily agree to forego or refund about $40 million from these old employment contracts, shep. >> shepard: peter barnes from fox business live at their business desk in washington tonight. peter, thank you. there is new concern tonight the united states government may have made promises it simply cannot afford to keep, especially when it comes to medicare. tonight, why your taxes may not be enough to cover the program, as fox reports on the nation's debt. new develo

the state of new york has filed civil fraud charges against bank of america and its former c.e.o., ken lewis. they're accused of failing to disclose losses at merrill lynch before buying the failing bank in 2009. bank of america received an extra $20 billion from the government to offset the losses. it has since repaid the money. for the record, bank of america is a newshour funder. in afghanistan, a suicide car bomber killed at least six people in kandahar. the attack came as the overall u.s. commander upgraded his assessment of things. general stanley mcchrystal said: "i believe the situation in afghanistan is serious. i do not say now that i think it is deteriorating." last summer, mcchrystal painted a darker picture. today, he said, "i feel the field of brain research focused today on what could be breakthrough findings in britain and belgium. brain scans found some patients in persistent vegetative states, p.v.s., show signs of brain activity, after all. in some cases, they even visualized answers to simple questions. we have a report from julian rush of independent television new

. >> hi, i'm ken burns. >> i'm lili taylor. >> m henry louis gates jr., and public broadcasting is my source for news about the world. >> for intelligent conversation. >> for election coverage you can count on. >> for conversations beyond the sound bites. >> for commitment to journalism. >> for deciding who to vote for. >> i'm kerri washington, and public broadcasting is my source for intelligent connections to my community.

new york's attorney general has filed civil fraud charges against bank of america and its former ceo ken lewis. the suit claims the bank misled investors about merrill lynch before it bought the wall street bank early last year. separately, bank of america agreed to pay $150 million to settle an sec claim that it misled shareholders about bonuses and losses while acquiring merrill. >>> and on the lighter side, americans are working overtime on their sex lives. according to a national survey by vault.com, 6 in 10 admit to in-dull mging in an office romance, nearly a third who got cozy with a colleague admit to kons matsing the affair while at work. and 6% of those people say they actually got caught in the act. can't say i'm part of that group, randall. >> well, you know, we learn the most interesting things from our "moneywatch" with you. thank you very much. >> yes, we do. thank you. >>> just ahead on the "morning news," newly sworn in senator scott brown gets down to business. >>> plus, jet setting giant pandas arrive in china this morning. >>> first, katie curry with a preview of toni

and i want to thank ken for his service to our country. when you look at the new budgeting process that are going to be put in place and bringing those new costs on budget, rather than running them as supplementals. that is something that as you look at the budget process needs to be done so that there is a regular order to the budget process. unfortunately, as they were approaching this, they were looking at making tremendous cut to some of our military post. one of our concerns was with fort campbell, which actually fits in my district in tennessee, where there was -- they were seeking to realize 40% reductions. and we had troops that were getting ready to deploy, families that were going to have names and were very fortunate to be able to work with general blanche and general stanton and work closely with their leadership team at fort campbell to address this. you know, more people want to see a regular order project process. this is one of the reasons they want to move away from earmarks. and it is also the reason that they too have gr

ken in delaware, it appears most voters believe anything the government tells them. that's why k street and wall street continue to get everything they want at the expense of main street. the only things that have chi changed are the numbers on the debt clock and numbers in the unemployment line. curtis writes, jack, i'm impressed. not many people can use the words trust and government in the same sentence with a straight face. to you want to read more on this stuff, find it on my blog at cnn.com/caffertyfile. >> when you think about it that budget deficit, $1.5 trillion in one year, you know, jack, these numbers are, you can't comprehend these numbers. >> we're going to take a look tomorrow on the cafferty file at the status of social security. that will make you lose your appetite for lunch, too. the social security going to need a taxpayer bailout soon and that's criminal. >> jack, we'll talk to you tomorrow. thanks very much. >>> some fans of the new senator for massachusetts scott brown admire him for more than just his politics. jeanne moos reports he's getting

host: ken lovett is from "the new york daily news" talking about david paterson's re-election.you can read his writing on their website, nydailynews.com. they have a story on this very thing today. mr. lo very tt, thanks for your time this morning. back to your calls for a very few more minutes on if your member of congress deserves re-election. dallas, gary, democrats line, thank you for waiting. gary, are you there? caller: yes, i am. c-span, great. thank you for your allowing us to call in today. thank you very much. host: go ahead, sir. you're on. caller: well, first of all, i want to say that stan johnson is my representative, and kay bailey hutchinson, and no, they do not deserve re-election, and i'll give you specific reasons why. but i first off want to make a quick comment on one of the other callers. yes, i do believe that the tea partiers and the cpac convention, they are a group of racist people, i believe, and i think most of americans, black or white, or recognize would determine that also later on this year. now, i do to want get to this point. me and my wife are

. >> reporter: so, if they won't take our calls, what are they saying when pay czar ken feinberg calls? >> mr. feinberg, we are trying to reduce as much of this retention payment as we can get back. the shame factor is pretty high. >> reporter: but if aig is really feeling the same, why is the company still paying huge bonuses? >> so is the end in sight? >> reporter: they say there could be another round in march, but these would be the last of the grandfathered contracts. feinberg points out from that point on, any company that owes taxpayer money will be under his watch, and those retention bonuses will be gone. >> so, starting in march, a new day. >> reporter: hopefully we won't be doing these reports. >> okay, thank you, david muir. >>> and now we turn to haiti. still no word on the fate of the american christian missionaries being held in jail there. today, a judge did question them about their attempt to take 33 children, 21 of them from the same small village, out of the country. for perspective, more than 300 haitian children were adopted by u.s. families in 2009, but in this y

. >> it's ironic, but in effect, i think you talked about ken lewis having an appetite for meals or something like that, but if he had made this deal which does not look like necessary the greatest deal, he offered a 70% deal which the next it might have been at zero, but did he kind of save the system forest? >> i tell you, he was a confident, decisive ceo. there's no doubt that was very much a stabilizing, stabilizing action. >> do you think we would have gotten two tuesday on aig if there had been action on merrill that they? >> i don't know, know what would've happened. because i don't think, warren, i don't think we could have taken one of the big institution to fail, do you? >> no. >> the system is, i think the thing that is hard for people to understand is, you know, we have 10 institutions that had, 50 to 60 percent of the financial assets in this country and they are so interconnected. i think, in many ways, as bad as this is, and it's terrible, but we look at what could've happened. we were pretty fortunate. >> hank, the british had given you the kind of british like bail warning ab

ken lewis for misleading shareholders and the government about the merger with merrill lynch. an attorney for lewis called the charges without merit. >> tom: more trouble tonight for toyota. this time, with its popular prius hybrid. the u.s. transportation department is now investigating brake problems on the 2010 model. the issue, braking when driving over bumpy roads and potholes. the news comes after the recall of more than 2 million other toyotas for sticky gas pedals. as diane eastabrook reports, the prius problem is another dent for the auto giant. >> reporter: so far more than 100 prius owners in the u.s. have reported the brake problem. four drivers say their brakes may have caused accidents. i.h.s. global insight's rebecca lindland says a problem with prius could dent toyota's reputation even more. >> the prius name is almost a brand unto itself for toyota and for many consumers it's sort of a generic term for a hybrid vehicle, i kind of equate it to kleenax, what people call facial tissue. >> reporter: the prius problem couldn't come at a worse time for toyota. the c

host: let me change the question a little for you, ken keen.ment would beyond nuclear, your group, like to see an alternative energy? give us a dollar amount. guest: to begin to answer that question, i would like to talk about "carbon free, nuclear- free," where alex gibbs figures -- gives figures. by the year 2014, the united states could phase out nuclear power and fossil fuel from both electricity and transport sectors. this could be done affordably, for the same percentage of our gdp that we currently spend on nuclear power and importing foreign oil. this is technically feasible and economically affordable. we need to do it to solve the climate crisis. we need to shift our priorities away from these dirty, dangerous, and expensive technologies like nuclear and fossil fuels. some of the nuclear energy institute's biggest members, companies like southern, companies like american electric power, detroit edison -- these are some of the biggest coal companies. they do both. we need to have another direction. to give the obama administration cred

former chief executive ken lewis didn't collect a salary, but the value of his pension jumped by more than $4 million. current c.e.o. brian moynihan earned $6.5 million. thomas montag, the president of b. of a's global banking and markets business, got nearly $30 million in salary and stock awards, thanks to an agreement he signed with merrill lynch. the figures were disclosed today in a filing with the s.e.c. the federal trade commission said "yes" today to pepsico bringing its two largest bottlers home to roost. the regulator signed off on the company's purchase of pepsi bottling group and pepsiamericas. but that o.k. comes with conditions. those bottlers also package products for dr. pepper and canada dry. so the f.t.c. wants pepsico to set up a firewall preventing its employees from seeing its rivals marketing and brand plans. >> tom: the winter swoon for stocks is over, so says tonight's "market monitor." she's elaine garzarelli, president of garzarelli capital. welcome back to nbr, elaine. nice see you. >> nice to see you, too. >> tom: what makes you think the dip in stock price

they blamed ken lay. and they sought vindication through the trial. >> skilling case goes to the supreme court on monday and we will be following it all the way, mark. >> all right. luxury home builder toll brothers trading higher in premarket after reporting a narrower first quarter loss than expected. shares of toll brothers pretty flat this year in comparison to the ishares dj u.s. home etf which is up 7%. here to go inside toll's numbers, buck horn, home builder and real estate analyst of raymond james. a new face to "squawk on the street". and an analyst at deutscha bank. what do the toll numbers look like to you? >> well, toll brothers numbers were very similar to the other builders in they were mixed in terms of reporting metrics. as you mentioned they have been under performing their peers because investors in betting on a housing recovery have been wanting to play the first-time builders as opposed to luxury builders. the results are similar to their peers but the borrow is set a lot lower. >> bu

temple by don't you start by telling about the main characters, ken rowes and boe jones? >> they are to and about the same age, they live in north carolina boe jones was from the plan county north carolina convicted of murder in 1993 for a murder that occurred in 1987 and he was sentenced to death and spent i believe 13 years on death row. ken rowes is the lawyer who in 1997 took on his case shortly before boe was scheduled to be executed, and he has represented boe ever since. and i spent four and half years following that case. >> what got you interested in this particular case? have you always been interested in the law? >> my wife is a lawyer but it is not a field i have studied. i was drawn to the idea of writing about lawyers who explosively represent death row inmates because i felt i just wanted to know why someone would do that. it's not a field that has a lot of rewards financially or in the community really were in the legal profession. so i wanted to know -- it's really hard work. your clients are often they died when you do it a long period of time so it can