back with me msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin. me, nbc's tom winter who has the latest on the deal. so tom, where are we right now with all this? >> well, i think both sides are going to take a little bit of time to take stock. i think they want to get to a point if they can agree on specific language that's going to satisfy the judge here, and going to satisfy what they think she will allow, what she'll sign off on and the right proceedings specifically to move forward under: i suspect that that will take some time. i don't think that that's something that gets solved today, for instance, and then i think they'll have to take a look at were there any sort of things they left out? were there any sort of things they want to solidify? the idea of the ongoing investigation was not necessarily new. that had been included in press release statements. the example of a fara charge was interesting because i would point out off the top of my head and going off of memory and what's included in the statement of facts read in court yesterday.

and back with me msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin. i know our colleague ken dilanian is in the courtroom. any idea what might be going on? >> i think they're going back and forth on a whole host of issues related to scheduling which in the normal case would be boring. in this case it's everything and we are waiting with baited breath if judge cannon gives the government what they want, a december trial date, or push it out a few months in which case running smack dab into another trial the same defendant is facing in new york, or she could decide to delay it indefinitely which i think would be pretty amazing in its own right because the former president hasn't made a legal argument for why they can't have the trial. >> what is the argument he's made? >> this is such a big deal, wow, this is so much discovery. that's not a legal argument. >> what about if he has other cases going on? >> that's not a legal argument. it's a very good practical argument. it's not a legal argument. >> with respect to his civil trials, he said i have these

lisa rubin, msnbc legal analyst, alicia grier and author of the book "black ethnics" and tim hay think. it's good to have all three of you with us. lisa, i'll start with you. what's the most dangerous trial? at least there are some in the pipeline, but the one wes know about definitively. >> there's no question it's the records case that's pending in the southern district of florida. however, the two outstanding that you showed, the election interference and then fulton county, georgia, district attorney fawny willis's investigation, they're both serious in terms of time served and consequences. you look at it in terms of f what trump tried to do and how narrowly he almost got away with it. >> what about the trials going on at the same time? he has demonstrated he's able to spin everything to his advantage and certainly he can fund-raise off the back of these, but can it politically work for him as well? >> i think so, ayman. he'll be the victim and hero of the story we talk about. he'll get a lot of free press. the money that he's raising from these individuals from the republican par

joining us now is our not so secret weapon, msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin. r me off air, but thank you for answering the questions on air. the first one is, does this superseding indictment change the timetable for the mar-a-lago trial? >> it could. we now have a three defendant case. we're gonna see some additional discovery. i don't think it will be as voluminous as what we have seen before, but there is going to be additional phone records, additional texts, additional surveillance footage. we know from the superseding indictment that they had surveillance footage of nada and de oliveira walking along the pool emitter of mar-a-lago. >> the whole part of them working through the bushes from one part of the property to the other. >> they have surveillance footage from multiple locations referenced in this indictment. the discovery burden will increase that, plus we have the possibility of additional pretrial motions that can't be stopped. one of those is called the severance motion. that is when one defendant says, i can't get a fair trial if i'm sitting nex

let's bring in nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake and msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin. so lisa, explain this court's ruling throughout out the maps once again? >> the court, katy, has basically decided that the solution that the new york court of appeals, the solution they reached before the 2022 election was never meant to be a permanent solution. it was only meant to be temporary, and therefore they threw it back to the mechanism established in new york state's constitution. that's a bipartisan redistricting commission that not only gets one bite at the apple, but two bites at the apple before it reverts to new york's legislature to draw its own map. however, in 2022, that redistricting commission deadlocked and that's what allowed the legislature to step in and overreach in a way that the court of appeals said, your maps are no good either, and we're going to give it to a neutral expert. this gives the commission an opportunity to draw the maps before what experts think is really going to happen. the legislature is going to get the ultimate opportunity to draw the m

lisa rubin is an msnbc legal analyst. both join me now to talk about what this means and what comes. next good to see both of you. at least, at let's talk about what's next. this always happens in a very unusual way with donald trump. he posts something that says something is going to happen. shortly thereafter, something happens. he gets the letter. that is still not an indictment. and that is not a trial. it's not done. this is early steps. what do you expect to happen next? >> i expect his lawyers are going to seek a meeting with the special counsel's office and or senior officials at the department of justice. if they have not already. there's been no public reporting of that reporting. the last time around, we went through a federal indictment trump target letter and his lawyer sat down with jack smith and team, it wasn't until about two weeks later, plus, that we saw the indictment and the record's case. >> joyce, how big a deal is the target letter? because you get it once they are well into the investigation again

barb, we are waiting for your shot also with us is the great lisa rubin. hi, lisa for -- thanks for saving my height. lisa, let me start with the notion that jack smith, his very busy and can apparently juggle a lot, was at the courthouse today on a wednesday, which is not traditionally when his grand jury's, meet. what's the signal to you? are you making a mole -- do you think there's something significant be inferred here? >> alex, it's hard to say, and i know that's an answer is deeply unsatisfying, both to you and our viewers. . it's one of two things. number one, jack smith went to hear from a witness in a grand jury that we did not understand to be meeting today it's unclear whether that ranged jury would have been for the election interference side of the investigation or the records investigation. the other possibility is the jack smith could've attended a sealed hearing having to do with some issues in one of those two investigations. he felt it was important to be there in person. obviously, time will tell why check smith is there, i think it is s

. >> let's discuss this with lisa rubin, and msnbc legal analyst. good to see you. let's talk about a couple of things there in that piece. pence said his call to ducey was to get an update. he passed information to trump that confirmed the election results. overall, how significant is this interview and our understanding of what went down? >> i don't know that it's that significant in terms of what went down. i do think it's significant in terms of pence trying to do two things, even more politically than legally, trying to placate people who are still sympathetic to trump. he asked me to make some phone calls, and i did what he asked and reported back to them, but he's trying to preempt any accusation of wrong doing by him by saying things like i think the record reflects i made these calls. former vice president pence may beware, for example, of phone records that would show he reached out to people like brad raffensperger or brian kemp. >> like a call log, we don't have an audio recording that we know of? >> farce we know, there is no audio recording. the report

. >> joining me now is msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin, i know you have a lot of thoughts, and what we learned in the unsealing of the affidavit. let's start with nauta and talk about plea of not guilty. he has a lawyer. what's going to happen next? what's the next step here? because i know the trial is still set for august. >> it is, but as you know, the government has moved to continue the trial. that means to postpone the trial. they've asked for a december date. the papers that nauta and trump as defendants here have in response are due on the 10th and now that nauta has finally been arraigned that, response can go forward we're looking to july 10th to see what does donald trump and walt nauta have to say about the date of the trial. do they believe it should be tried in august or like the government, do they think they need additional time because of classified information and the procedures that need to take place. >> that's four days from now. the judge can decide on here own, judge aileen cannon, which it sure is at this moment. she doesn't have to grant every motion that's put

bring in our lead off panel, peter baker, chief white house correspondent for the new york times, lisa rubin, our msnbc legal analyst, and former new york prosecutor and civil rights attorney charles coleman. lisa, the former president has already received a target letter. but there are still witnesses who are testifying. what is going on? what does it tell you about the timing here? >> you know, alicia, in the last indictment from this office from the special counsel, there was a target letter sent to president trump in mid may. he was not indicted until june 8th. and we obviously know that, up through and including june 8th, there were witnesses that testified before the grand jury. it was that morning that i caught up with stan woodward, who, ironically, is also will russell's attorney escorting -- into that courthouse. so, it doesn't necessarily mean that both things can't be true. there can be witnesses scheduled. and we can still be barreling toward an indictment, the fact that trump has already to received a target letter. one other possibilities that the special counsel is preparing

joining me now, nbc's ken dilanian and msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin, good to have both of you here.tion, lisa. did donald trump admit he lost to anybody in the days after the election is. what does it mean that prosecutors are asking this question? >> well, i think, chris, it goes to his knowledge and intent, to the extent that he's admitting that he lost but is still telling the general public via tweets, via fund-raising solicitations, and even telling people like mike pence, for example, that he wants to continue contesting the election, that's a core element of intent that goes to a number of the statutes that could be used to prosecute him and others involved in continued efforts to overturn the election. now, as to your question, who did he say it to? you know, "the new york times" reporting is that jared kushner thought very much that his father-in-law genuinely believed that the election was stolen from him, but there are a number of others who have told either the special counsel, the january 6th committee, or both that they heard trump say that he knew he lost. those peopl

help us understand what is happening right now and where things are headed, msnbc legal analyst lisa rubinate attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave aronberg, and former fbi assistant director frank figfigliuzzi. let's begin at the courthouse with mike memoli. walk us through what we expect to see in court in just moments. >> reporter: ana, as you say, this closed proceeding beginning shortly if it has not already begun in which we really see the beginning of the end of this five-year investigation into the president's son, both his personal and business dealings. it's going to be the formalization of the agreement which federal prosecutors will seek probation, not jail time, in return for the president's son pleading guilty to two charges of failure to pay taxes. this is on income of over $1.5 million in 2017 and 2018. separately, we expect him to enter into what's known as a pretrial diversion program in return for a felony charge of failure to disclose that he had been addicted to drugs taking drugs when seeking a federal firearms license. now, this is we should note a historic m

let's bring in msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin now. us, what do we know about the makeup of these grand juries and the jury selection? >> they weren't asked about trump, but they were asked primarily about things like hardship, is there anything that would prevent you from participating in this grand jury. you don't have to show up every day, but they do require a quorum. so in a grand jury of 23, there have to be enough people there every day for the grand jury to do its business. we know from fani willis that she also expecting to be able to present evidence in such a if fashion that charges could be forthcoming anytime between july 31st and august 18th. this term of the grand jury ends on september 21st. >> why two grand juries? >> neither of these grand juries as we understand it is specific to the trump or election interference case. they are hearing a variety of other cases at the same time. we don't expect that both of them are also involved in this investigation. one is more likely than both. >> okay, we know that they are almo

correspondent garrett haake, nbc senior legal correspondent laura jarrett and msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin. we're going to get to that moment in a moment. let us start with donald trump, and what is going on with him right now. garrett, he says he has no plans to go to d.c.? >> well, he hasn't said that, katy, but sources familiar with his thinking tell us he's not going to show up here and testify. not planning to avail himself of four days basically that he says this target letter allowed him to come and tell his side of the story before a grand jury, and most defense lawyers you talk to say that's a pretty good strategy. he's in bedminster, new jersey, a screening of a movie there with supporters, and basically he's been focused on the campaign strategy element of the response to this at least publicly. we saw him on the stump in iowa yesterday, and in a town hall talking about this pending perhaps indictment, the same way he's talked about the two indictments he faces as election interference, purely political trying to continue to use his legal troubles as rocket fuel for his presiden

hillyard who's outside of trump's new jersey home in bedminster, also with, msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin as well. ken, start us off. bring us up to date. walk us through the latest addition, de oliveira, and walt nauta as well. >> there are two sets of significant allegations against donald trump in these three criminal charges. in the first one, he's charged with one additional count of willful retention of national defense information. that's related to the war document. that's deeply significant, especially because he denied it exists. now it's clear the government has it. the other two counts related to altering or destroying or mutilating documents. that's an alleged obstruction of justice scheme. a new scheme in the superseding indictment between donald trump and two employees. one his codefendant, and wallet walt nauta. shortly after donald trump received a subpoena demanding surveillance footage from mar-a-lago, he started this plan in motion. he called both walt nauta, and carlos de oliveira. nauta makes an unscheduled trip to mar-a-lago. he wasn't meant to be there. according t

joining me now to discuss, and msnbc legal analyst, but lisa rubin. as we know, none of these election officials have actually appeared before the january six grand jury. why do you think prosecutors are sticking to interviews, subpoenas for now? >> i think not at these people alicia are people that we understand to be targets of the investigation. some of them may not even be necessary as witnesses. however, for the completeness of the investigation, it's important for the department of justice to smoke them out essentially. know what they would say if they were called as a witness by a defendant, and corroborate their understanding of documents that may already be in their possession. for example, we know that all seven slates of fake electors sent documents to the national archives, many of those documents passed their way through secretaries of states offices first, and in some cases, as an arizona, that is how they got to be part of a referral, there is on a secretary of state essentially sent, are you guys gonna do something about this? there's

joining me now, msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin. lisa, thank you for joining me.aim against carroll contains page after page of, quote, defended denies the allegations. what harm is trump saying that he suffered here? >> he is saying, and as preposterous as it seems i want our audience to bear with me and even discussing this. that because the jury in the original trial found him liable for sexual abuse, but not rape, e. jean carroll's continued insistence after that verdict that trump raped her has caused him immeasurable damage to his reputation. now, you and i might say, how is that possible? and i'm indeed scratching my head about whether or not trump 's counterclaims would survive a motion to dismiss. among other things, it's not clear to me that the difference between reputational harm from committing a sexual assault, which a jury unanimously found he did, and committing rape is distinct from one another. but even if it were, imagine the -- who will have to go into court and say that the damage to trump's reputation in may of 2023, because e. jean carroll c

>> good morning, jonathan, well, first, lisa rubin has observed that it was really two meetings.in the oval office, and then a smaller meeting happened afterwards with a kitchen cabinet that are now all targets, it seems, of jack smith's investigation. so rudy giuliani, michael flynn and others. as you, said they discussed some pretty out there stuff at that meeting. things like having the military intervened to change the results of the election. and it ended with donald trump tweeting that january 6th is going to be wild. and i think that is really the focus around because the question is whether there is a connection and it can be proven by prosecutors. between the fake electors schemes and the various attempts to interfere with that presidential election. and then the violence of january 6th, where they separate events or were they connected? and that meeting seems to bring them together. we >> let's turn to arizona, if you were jacks mitt, what would you have asked the former arizona house speaker, rusty bowers, in that four-hour interview? >> well, i would have wanted to kn

jared kushner was not the only one of trump's closest advisers, but as msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin reminded me, other than trump adviser jason miller, no one was more involved in the post election fund-raising efforts pushing the big lie that jared. that could also mean the campaign finance angle of the investigation is also very much alive. it's the latest sign of a potential third indictment for the twice- impeached, twice-indicted former president and the second coming from special counsel jack smith. while smith has already brought charges against trump for his mishandling of classified documents, as we see he has also been hard at work on this other investigation. from what we've been able to learn it goes well beyond just the events of january 6th including everything in the months leading up to the attack on the u.s. capitol. in particular, we're learning more about the special counsel's investigation into how trump and his allies tried to pressure state officials to help overturn their state's election results, as well as forming the so-called alternate slates of electors i

joining me now, eric talker, associated press fbi and justice department reporter, and lisa rubin, msnbc you both. eric, i want to bring up the point that trump doesn't have to attend this on friday. give me your expectation for friday's hearing. >> i think, alex, it's fairly significant because this is the first time we're going to hear discussions about the parameters of how the case is going to move forward in terms of the handling of classified information. that's significant because classified information is at the root of the prosecution. there is going to be discussion on both sides in front of the judge about how that's going to play out. >> lisa, the search warrant affidavit suggests the classified information is going to come up. much of it remains heavily redacted, as you know, but it clearly lays out the law for storage of secret and top secret information. it outlines the movement of boxes in and out of a storage room. who is going to be allowed to see classified information during the trial. what are the rules they are going to ask for? >> alex, one of the rules is that the

never interviewed by the january 6th committee according to a source familiar who spoke with our lisa rubin know of three appearances before the grand jury that russell has now made, including today. we do not know what his testimony will yield exactly, whether jack smith has anything more from him that maybe the january 6th committee did not, we did just find out a telling detail about what he is being asked about. the news from the courthouse in a moment, beyond that, though, we are left with the road map from the target letter. and on that note, we also have news. clarity from the "new york times" on what the civil rights statute could mean, and how it could be used to essentially argue that donald trump violated the constitutional rights of a voter or a group of voters. at the same time, republicans are building more than just a defense of donald trump. some are trying to rewrite history. there's a movement to expunge his impeachments in the house. why some worry that calling a vote on those expungements, i guess, is doomed to fail. joining me now nbc news justice and intelligence corre

barbara mcquade, and our great msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin, ladies thank you there your time and thoughts this evening. >>> when we come back, news of a looming federal indictment for the leader of their party has landed among republicans down here in washington. that news has landed with a thud. we're going to get reaction from senator elizabeth warren and my msnbc colleague jen psaki. stick around. y msnbc colleague jen psaki. stick around (man) mm, hey, honey. looks like my to-do list grew. "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance," hm. i have a few minutes. i can do that now. oh, that fast? remember that colonial penn ad? i called and i got information. they sent the simple form i need to apply. all i do is fill it out and send it back. well, that sounds too easy! (man) give a little information, check a few boxes, sign my name, done. they don't ask about your health? (man) no health questions. -physical exam? -don't need one. it's colonial penn guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance. if you're between the ages of 50 and 85, your acceptance is guarantee

. >>> joining us is nbc news legal analyst, lisa rubin, ken dilanian.t today's hearing in the documents case, a separate case, the documents case in mar-a-lago, there are important rules that this trial will have to fall under because of the classified documents? >> yeah, that's right, jose. they're going to argue about that today, for example -- and it's just the beginning of a long process, but one of the questions in this case will be is the government going to ask that parts of these highly sensitive documents be redacted, even from the jury. there's a provision for that. we're not supposed to have secret evidence in this country, but when something impinges on national security there's a law that allows that to be kept secret from everyone and often defendants resist that. the most important issue that's going to be talked about today is the issue of scheduling and when this trial will take place. obviously donald trump and his lawyers are asking the judge to postpone it potentially until after the 2024 presidential election, and jack smith, the sp

lisa rubin, always good to see you. that is our show for tonight. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, alex. we have andrew weissmann joining us tonight, and he has been the hardest working man at this network today. i want to get to him as quickly as i can. >> as you should. >> thank, you alex. we now know who the star witness is going to be in the case of united states of america versus donald j trump, walt tea nauta and now carlos de oliveira. carlos de oliveira was added as a defendant in the case today in a superseding indictment which added nine new criminal charges, some of which apply only to one of the individual defendants, some of light all of them, and they're all now accused of participating in a conspiracy to obstruct justice directed by donald trump. the new defendant, carlos de oliveira, is a trump employee working in maintenance and on trump's florida residents. the three person conspiracy described in the superseding indictment tried to recruit a fourth person to the cons

i want to bring in ali vitali, msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin, former senior adviser, alencia johnson. senate democrats scored a win, they had a razor thin margin, 11-10, voting along party lines to advance the bill. then what chance does it have? >> reporter: very minimal. you don't get to round two before going through round one. this is a win notched by senate democrats. we expected that was going to be the margin because that's the partisan break down. when you take this to the full floor of the senate, it would need 60 votes to pass and avoid a filibuster. that's the magic number around here, not 51. it would require a bipartisan effort, and frankly, listen to the way republicans were talking about this, it's clear there's not a ton of willingness on the part of senate republicans, and house republicans have made clear they don't want to touch this issue. nevertheless, here's what senator whitehouse was saying about why he thinks this bill was important, especially in this current landscape. watch. >> we have to allow power to check power, allowing congress the power to check abu

here with us now, vaughn hillyard and lisa rubin and also jane trimm and also a committee spokesperson. and also barbara mcquaid. and so vaughn first talk to us about what trump is saying. what do we know about these conversations that he is having with republicans on capitol hill as well as these events he's had since the announcement of the target letter? >> he made multiple stops in iowa yesterday including sitting down for an hour with sean hannity on fox in front of a couple thousand iowans. but it is important to note the conversations that he had with kevin mccarthy and elise stefanik. this is so reminiscent of what the january 6 committee lived through and that is donald trump urging other lawmakers and allies to come to his defense. hard part for republicans is that it will be defending will imon pair merits of prosecution. he has not denied that he pressured mike pence to send back the certifications. he has not denied that he did not place calls to pence or the pentagon for help. he has not denied that they tried to fund raise off of these false election claims. i'll let you

peter baker, lisa rubin, and charles coleman, thank you so much for getting us started. coming up -- after so much interference in the 2020 election cycle, state officials are grappling with how to proactively protect future elections. michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson joins me. and later, russia targets ukrainian port cities, as the conflict grinds on bill browder's sat with stephanie ruhle two -- to discuss his plan to fund ukraine's law defense. . >> i spent the last couple of days at the aspen security for where nbc's a media partner, and we covered all sorts of important topics about national security, cyber security, global competitiveness, education. but it was the conversation i had earlier today with former secretary of state condoleezza rice, and we talk about who our biggest adversary is -- she gave quite this uprising answer. >> our biggest adversary is us, that we don't get these things right. i really don't fear a country out there. i'm often asked, you know, when you look at the future, what is the danger that you see? and the united states can ha

joining us now lisa rubin, msnbc legal analyst, and eric tucker, justice department reporter with the he's also coauthor on the latest ap report, fresh charges tie trump even more closely to cover up effort. lisa, let's start with you. these are fascinating new developments. how do you interpret trump's outright denial? >> that denial is only going to be affected in the court of public opinion and with people who are already predisposed to him. the charge that has been made here, not only the obstruction of justice charge, but the other charges against trump, nauta, and thw codefendant, carlos de oliveira, all they are about our an attempt to persuade the i.t. worker we now know was trump employee number four to do that deletion for them. trump may be technically correct that he did not ever give an exact directive to someone with the authority or it information essence airy to delete those tapes to do so but he made that message clear through intermediaries to nauta and then to de oliveira and then two to various. distancing himself as a mob boss would. but that is not going to save

joining me now is lisa rubin, msnbc legal analyst, and our show's secret weapon -- not that secret anymore, because it's so obvious how really you are when it comes to understanding all the trump leak news. lisa, my eyes popped out of my head when i read the words golf clubs, dirrell, and you put her. am i wrong to think that this is a significant new reporting? >> no, not at all. my eyes do the same. we were not together when -- >> we were not at the -- assessment, now. >> but one of the things that i think is so interesting about this are, doral and jupiter are not places that trump is known to have residences. so, when the department of justice had earlier said to trump's lawyers, we think that you are still hiding some documents from us, and you need to do more complete searches, those searches were eventually done. but they were done of residences. they were down at trump tower and they were done at bedminster. doral is not a place we understand as a place that president trump spends a lot of nights. he did, however, according to the news reports, sleep there the night before his miam

. >> joining me now, lisa rubin, nbc legal analyst, and hannah hole david, former spokesperson for theah, why do you think jack smith is focusing, and part, on any connection between trump and that's pre-january six room? >> this is something the select committee was very interested in. this command center, if you, well of folks who are really close with donald trump outside of the white house, as you just heard from sarah matthews. no one inside the white house had connection to that, that we could talk to. the individuals that we think up in this command center are ones that really sad, i don't want to talk to the select committee. a big reason is that's the implications of guilt for themselves. we're thinking of rudy giuliani and his legal team. john eastman, he was a part of that, was the legal mastermind behind the fake elector strategy. you have steve bannon, you have roger stone. john eastman, who i just mentioned, came in to talk to the select committee, and pled the fifth over 100 times. roger stone came and to talk to the select committee for about 90 minutes, he pled the fif

i'll be joined by lisa rubin, christina, greer tim hey fee to discuss the ex presidents packed calendarls. going all the way up through the presidential election. that's tonight. nine eastern right here on msnbc. msnbc. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ this is american infrastructure, a prime target for cyberattacks. but the same ai-powered security that protects all of google also defends these services for everyone who lives here. ♪ >> since the fall of rumors, kids can errors there now every day scenarios across this country, more than a dozen states have outright banned abortions, women are paying a horrible price. at a recent hearing challenging the abortion ban in texas, women shared gut wrenching testimony is being forced to carry pregnancies to term while knowing medically that their fetuses had no chance of

we have washington post congressional investigations reporter and msnbc contributor, as well as lisa rubinl analyst, both favorites of the show. welcome ladies get to see. you i know jacqui you contributed to the big exclusive in the post today this first report on trump's efforts to pressure former republican governor greg doug doocy about shortfall over more than 10,000 votes what can you tell us about this phone call and is this being looked at by jack smith's team? >> yes alex i have to politely disagree with governor doocy's statement to my colleagues who landed this brilliant and interesting scoop this morning. we are not quite sure if governor doocy the former governor has been contacted by smith's office since he communicated to others during a donor meeting over a meal in arizona earlier this year that he was under pressure after trump's loss to a republican. in the state. this account had been confirmed by others who were aware of doocy's call with former president donald trump after the election where trump was repeatedly asking him to find evidence to substantiate his claims of

morning scott gulden, white-collar criminal defense attorney and lisa rubin, former litigator at msnbc legal analyst. thanks to both of. you silicon valley, israel is pledging into a democratic crisis. first part of prime minister's netanyahu's traditional overhaul was made official. protesting continuing into the weekend. we have the latest from jerusalem, next. plus, on today's meeting of the velshi banned book club, we are discussing the heartwarming book, the best at. it with its author, malik potentially. when sexual identity and cultural heritage in a way that any reader can understand. we are going to discuss all of these topics and the books widespread ban across florida and texas. and texas. en. the joy of movement. ♪♪ (mom) the moment i loved our subaru outback most... was the moment they walked away from it.e joy of movement. (daughter) mom! (mom) oh, thank goodness. and that's why our family will only drive a subaru. (vo) subaru. more iihs top safety pick plus awards than any other brand. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. meet the future. a chef. a designer. and, ooh, a

. >> lisa rubin is back with me. joining us, former u.s. attorney, barbara mcquade.a co-host of the hashtag sisters in law podcast. also teaches law at the university of michigan. welcome, barbara and lisa. carlos de oliveira is not alone struggling to find a florida-based attorney, apparently. walt nauta had to delay his arraignment until he hired a local lawyer. how unusual is it for these defendants to not be able to find an attorney? what could possibly mean for a trial schedule. >> michael, i think it's unlikely the arraignment will go forward tomorrow, and as we saw through not as example, where he took three plus weeks after his original indictment, securing council in order to be a range, i think that that does suggest that we are going to be having a similar delay here. whether or not carlos de oliveira was arraigned tomorrow, the addition of a third defendant and additional charges that will cause additional discovery to be produced, and additional pretrial motions to be made, whether or not he was arraigned tomorrow, we can count on the fact that there wil

joining me, now we have lisa, rubin msnbc legal analyst.ere so let's get to the timing first of the trial. it seems like the first big legal fight in the documents case is just that. it is a normal for prosecutors though to use the kind of language that we see in this filing? >> eligible normal for prosecutors to be as hard-hitting as they are in this brief. on the other, and it's also not normal for defense councils to say we don't need to set a trial date now or maybe ever. right, usually there is a debate about when the appropriate trial date should be by each side takes a concrete position. what trump and novice counselor doing here saying we will not count to propose a date. it should at least be after the election, it's a tough unprecedented and somewhat justified the response to see from the department of justice which is saying the speedy trial act is not solely for your convenience and it's not a function of statute. their constitution requires and when you tried to find as quickly as possible. >> 100%. let's talk about prosecutors

. >> all right, former federal prosecutor, paul butler, and msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin, thank youvery much for your time. coming up -- when the supreme court dismantled race conscious decision-making in college admissions, they left policies in place that benefit that predominantly white applicants, whose parents and grandparents attended elite colleges before them. but today, there's a new challenge to the so-called legacies. we'll have more on that, next. t, next. ad-test evaluations... and the results are in. subaru is the twenty twenty-three best mainstream automotive brand, according to consumer reports. and subaru has seven consumer reports recommended models. solterra, forester, outback, crosstrek, ascent, impreza, and legacy. it's easy to love a brand you can trust. it's easy to love a subaru. more shopping? you should watch your spending honey. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. check it out, you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, i'll look into that. let me put a reminder on my phone. s