joining me now, former legal counsel to donald trump, michael cohen. t and co-hosts of the political beetown podcast. the author of revenge and disloyal, and in his free time the principle of the company crisis x. michael, my friend, let's just go straight to the meat of this. a lot of the key evidence in jack smith's indictment involves using trump's own words against him. there's an excerpt on page 21, paragraph 54, which lays out trump's incriminating statements to through -- i don't want anybody looking, i don't anyone looking through my boxes, i really don't. i don't want you looking through my boxes. well, what if we, what happens if we don't respond it or where we don't play ball with them, wouldn't it be better we just told we don't have anything here? well, look, isn't it better there are no documents? michael, you and i have talked about the way trump would communicate with you, sometimes if the ball feels style of dropping suggestions -- are you surprised that trump said so incriminating? >> yeah, because normally he speaks, as i always state

attorneys have been, one of his current lawyers evan corcoran, and former trump lawyer and fixer michael cohen who was indicted and served jail time. >> brian todd reporting, thank >> brian todd reporting, thank you very much. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com

one of trump's other former lawyers, michael cohen, is here tonight with his thoughts on

still ahead, michael cohen, remember him?ent for donald trump, how does he feel about the former president's latest indictment. he will join me here right here, next. ♪ ♪ ♪ we planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. you think those two have any idea? that they can sell their life insurance policy for cash? so they're basically sitting on a goldmine? i don't think they have a clue. that's crazy! well, not everyone knows coventry's helped thousands of people sell their policies for cash. even term policies. i can't believe they're just sitting up there! sitting on all this cash. if you own a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more, you can sell all or part of it to coventry. even a term policy. for cash, or a combination of cash and coverage, with no future premiums. someone needs to tell them, that they're sitting on a goldmine, and you have no idea! hey, guys! you're sitting on a goldmine! come on, guys! do you hear that? i don't hear anything anymore. find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventr

in the mind of the former president, it will be my next guest former trump attorney and fixer michael cohen book "revenge: how donald trump weaponized the u.s. department of justice against his critics." he also hosts the podcast mea culpa. thanks so much for joining us. first let's just start with your reaction to what we saw today. i mean, i think it's fair to say this is a much bigger deal, and i don't mean to belittle everything you went through, but this is a much bigger deal than hush money payments to stormy daniels. >> yeah, so first of all, good to be here with you, jake, wish i was there with you in d.c., but today's like a bittersweet day, if you think about it, the fact that a former president now federally indicted whereas the alvin bragg case is a state indictment, it's a terrible day for america, but i'll tell you one thing that it's a good day for, and that's accountability. everybody believed that donald trump was going to escape all of the accountability, whether it's the hush money payment, whether it's this matter, whether it's going to be the georgia case, nobody though

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joining me now, donald trump's former attorney michael cohen. he is the host of the mea culpa podcast and the author of the book revenge. michael, you know donald trump very well. do you think in your mind if he was ever going to opt for an option of taking a settlement instead of battling this out in public? >> no. so donald's position is never too subtle, ever. because he thinks it's a sign of weakness. unfortunately, he didn't have anybody around him to guide him properly. he's like a petulant child that just keeps sticking their finger into an electric sockets. and then you keep saying don't do, it you don't want to do it, you don't want to do it. but nevertheless he's going to do it anyway because in his mind he knows better. and then you have somebody for example like forceps dean who will turn around and say to him, you're right donald. stick your figure into the office, it's. good instead of guiding him like many of us in the past and saying to have, you can't do that. turn to think about how many of these matters right now would not even

because if e so it's against donald trump, he'll get the michael cohen treatment river, michael conflict against trump and then went to jail for 3 years trump did not at least not yet. and and and so you're going to he's got a lot of pressure on him to sort of link arms with the president in go all the way to trial. but if he's convicted, he will face a serious amount of time. i think in jail and he's a he's a 20 year. military is really it's really not the saying he wants to be doing, but he put himself in a bad spot here being the president's closest assistant. >> right. and and so and i asked michael this as well. just for you is as well, the >> reality of one being found guilty and not the other. it seems like that's not necessarily possible here considering it's conspiracy. >> you know, jury is capable of doing almost anything in the supreme court has said that rational jury verdicts are okay. there's they're unconstitutional it's hard to believe that a jury could convict one of conspiracy and not the other. and of course, tactic in the sense that he didn't move the boxes. he didn't

and listening to others, and i'm going, why is nobody paying attention to what michael cohen is telling you? this guy is in everything he does. and i saw it myself firsthand back in 2013, just watching him up at trump tower. he knows everything that happens around him, because that's his control freak nature. so that makes it doubly difficult for lawyers to then try to defense a case on his behalf because he, "a," doesn't want to give over that control, and "b," he damn sure doesn't want them to put them in a position where he's the least bit accountable for something. so even if he could get him out of trouble, he will not lean into that moment and take on that bit of accountability, because he doesn't want to be wrong. he thinks he's always right. he thinks everyone around him is wrong and doesn't get it and fundamentally believes you can't touch this. and until someone -- deliberate hammer reference? deliberate or accidental? >> what was that? >> was that a deliberate mc hammer reference or was it accidental? >> deliberate mc hammer reference because we're getting close to th

and then you have michael cohen, and michael cohen went along and paid the price for it. those are for lawyers, and it gives you a real sense of how donald trump uses lawyers. the reason donald trump said to don mcgahn -- which is just a remarkable statement, if you know anything about roy comb. and then to your point, i think it's important to step back and talk a lot about the strength that the case but also to talk about what the case is really about. we decide the obstruction. there were 31 counselor that we're chilling and 21 in particular were there are if not just top secret documents, these are top secret compartment it documents. that is the highest most sensitive documents. it is remarkable to me having been in the intelligence community that there was even permission for this to go forward and to use this in an indictment, because this is just so incredibly sensitive. there are, over and over again, documents concerning military capabilities of a foreign country, annotations with a black marker, meaning donald trump did it, a document concerning nuclear capabil

mike michael cohen he picked his time and ultimately turned.ss in public, an accuser of nixon about road to nixon being ousted from the white house. the watergate history echoed in the probe but with a difference, because trump's lawyer mcgahn acted sooner to try to avoid becoming as disbarred and disfavored a lawyer as john dean. other trump lawyers are learning on the job or the hard way, and if you're thinking, okay, that's a lot, let's take a breath, okay, ari, that's a lot of lawyers -- pattern seems pretty clear. cautionary tale, obvious, how does a lawyer at this point, after trump leaves office in the 2020s, if you will, end up in this kind of situation? >> well, it's still happening. and that brings us to what i promised you -- a kind of a factual payoff to this very rich and incriminating history, a lawyer who may now be crucial in the doj case that is targeting donald trump for federal indictment. he might not be as well known as some of the lawyers i showed you tonight. that's why the context i think helps understand, because boy, h

in that case as well, whatever you want to say about michael cohen, he's got receipts to. in this case you've got tapes, you've got the fall guy in this case doing all of the box moving and there's a security for its surveillance video when you've got the lawyer who's playing the michael cohen in this case, mr. corcoran, who is schumer's attorney number one rating contemporaneous notes saying he's asking me to crime, let me go ahead and take notes of all the crime-ing but he's asking me to do. >> evan corcoran still investigating donald trump and it blows my mind. >> it reminds me of the prime minister of england where the joke was is she going to last longer -- i think with mr. corcoran you can say how long do we really think he is going to continue recommending, representing him. donald trump has to read this and say one of the governments star witnesses -- >> is my lawyer -- >> exactly. >> a cabbage looks like it has a long shelf life compared to -- i want to bring in john brennan, former director of the cia and now msnbc intelligence analyst. sir, thank you so much for

and so recently you have lawyers who, like you and everybody else, watch michael cohen go to prison,se lawyers decided to work for trump anyway, knowing this is what he does, and now we have been tracking how several of them are now basically the corner that cohen was in, legal scrutiny, which has so many recent trump lawyers, not only in this but in a whole range of cases trying to check whether they need their own legal team or at least really copious notes, and there are lawyers who learned trump did want to do them dirty like he did cohen, and they pushed back. that leads to trump lawyer corcoran, who wrote down the fact, which sketches out key lines, and shed light on why trump is upset to learn that if judges see lawyers more as defendants than independent lawyers, those type of lawyers lose their legal privileges, which protects against talking, subpoenas, testifying. >> i always used to think that attorneys really had a very high status in life, that when you had an attorney, the attorneys can't be subpoenaed, they can't be summoned to talk. >> they usually can't. the x facto

and then you have michael cohen, and michael cohen went along and paid the price for it. those are for lawyers, and it gives you a real sense of how donald trump uses lawyers. the reason donald trump said to don mcgahn -- which is just a remarkable statement, if you know anything about roy comb. and then to your point, i think it's important to step back and talk a lot about the strength that the case but also to talk about what the case is really about. we decide the obstruction. there were 31 counselor that we're chilling and 21 in particular were there are if not just top secret documents, these are top secret compartment it documents. that is the highest most sensitive documents. it is remarkable to me having been in the intelligence community that there was even permission for this to go forward and to use this in an indictment, because this is just so incredibly sensitive. there are, over and over again, documents concerning military capabilities of a foreign country, annotations with a black marker, meaning donald trump did it, a document concerning nuclear capabil

in that case as well, whatever you want to say about michael cohen, he's got receipts to.e you've got tapes, you've got the fall guy in this case doing all of the box moving and there's a security for its surveillance video when you've got the lawyer who's playing the michael cohen in this case, mr. corcoran, who is schumer's attorney number one rating contemporaneous notes saying he's asking me to crime, let me go ahead and take notes of all the crime-ing but he's asking me to do. >> evan corcoran still investigating donald trump and it blows my mind. >> it reminds me of the prime minister of england where the joke was is she going to last longer -- i think with mr. corcoran you can say how long do we really think he is going to continue recommending, representing him. donald trump has to read this and say one of the governments star witnesses -- >> is my lawyer -- >> exactly. >> a cabbage looks like it has a long shelf life compared to -- i want to bring in john brennan, former director of the cia and now msnbc intelligence analyst. sir, thank you so much for joining us.

michael cohen made that, point don mccann not pulled into that as the star witness. we saw it over and over. what donald trump learned from those people, and did at times pull off, was oh, if you have no ethics and morals, you don't care about the law, and this person has more protection, you put it there. i make this analogy deliberately. most people hire security to do security. to protect. there are people who have figured out that you can hire security, a security guard who has a weapon, a license fire, and you try to use them to be more of an enforcer. it is not security. all right? you can get on a lot of trouble for that legally. >> this isn't lawyering. there isn't a lawyer for michael cohen, that's why ultimately you went to jail, he fled. what we've seen, here and what we learn more about this, evan corcoran, merrick east end of the case, and perhaps other lawyers in the history, -- mr. parlatore, all of these folks are in a position where all of the pressure is going to be on them to tell the whole truth, nothing about the truth. again, so what? against a

michael cohen made that, point don mccann not pulled into that as the star witness. we saw it over and over. what donald trump learned from those people, and did at times pull off, was oh, if you have no ethics and morals, you don't care about the law, and this person has more protection, you put it there. i make this analogy deliberately. most people hire security to do security. to protect. there are people who have figured out that you can hire security, a security guard who has a weapon, a license fire, and you try to use them to be more of an enforcer. it is not security. all right? you can get on a lot of trouble for that legally. >> this isn't lawyering. there isn't a lawyer for michael cohen, that's why ultimately you went to jail, he fled. what we've seen, here and what we learn more about this, evan corcoran, merrick east end of the case, and perhaps other lawyers in the history, -- mr. parlatore, all of these folks are in a position where all of the pressure is going to be on them to tell the whole truth, nothing about the truth. again, so what? against a

joining me now is in studio's former attorney for donald trump, michael cohen. of the book revenge. and host of mayor -- podcast. michael, thank you for joining us today. first, now trump is the first former president to face federal criminal charges. you worked closely with trump for a long time. what was your reaction when you read the indictment? let me start there, michael? >> what officer with the fact that this is now the first president to hold two distinguished honors. where? he was federally indicted for a state charge and now a federal charge. i have to agree with congresswoman dean, it is a very very well written one. and it is an easy indictment to read. i mean, anyone can read it. you don't need to be a lawyer. it tells a story. and the story is so damning. forgetting about donald trump, it is damning to america. something else that congresswoman dean brought up about donald trump and in the indictment, five documents, that is also -- we go back to 99. you know him a long time. that is only the 500 documents that they know of. i have said on your sh

one of trump's other former lawyers, michael cohen, is here tonight with his thoughts on what rudy giuliani is saying. plus, the former president is offering multiple explanations tonight for that audiotape obtained by cnn of his meeting at bedminster where he showed off his reportedly secret classified documents. what does that paper reveal about donald trump's motive? our panel of legal experts why isn't. and, as we know, people who crossed vladimir putin tend to fall out of windows or suffered mysterious illnesses. so what is next for evgeny prigozhin? a longtime russian tv host tells us. let's begin with our cnn exclusive, rudy giuliani has been talking to prosecutors as part of jack smith's investigation into trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election win of joe biden. our senior legal affairs correspondent paula reid is here. paula, great to see you. do we know what giuliani has told investigators? >> we do not know what he said to investigators during this interview, alison. we do know that he was accompanied by his lawyer, robert costello for the sit down with special counsel pro

this is not michael cohen. this isn't where you go oh, i'm going to put on someone who's got a lot of baggage. here you've got employee one. employee to. attorney one. attorney to. attorney three. it goes on and on. as you said, text messages, tapes, everything is corroborated. this isn't something where you can say, gee, there's a defense. i'm going to attack someone's credibility. these are his people. they seem to be corroborated one side down the other. >> in fact, lawrence, we had reporting from the very beginning about the videotapes. of them moving the boxes. which seems to be confirmed here. they don't quite say videotapes, but they just take in these indictment. these boxes were moved at this particular time, as a statement of facts. >> you can read a stack of random indictments. and not find quotation marks in them. not fine quotation marks saying the person said exactly these words. and prosecutors won't use quotation marks unless they can actually prove every one of those words. not just the gist of

michael cohen, former library or and fixer for donald trump.bviously both of these individuals have since turned on donald trump. michael cohen said he thought there is definitely nefarious intent. he has no evidence of that.. >>? that's what his knowledge of donald trump leads him to believe. what do you think? >> i'll have to do is look at donald trump's past behavior, and frankly, from the past legal proceedings he's faced, this is a twice impeached president. but when we rewind, and when we rewind the tape and look at donald trump's first impeachment. he used, and wasn't afraid to leverage the power of the united states government and an attempt to engage in an extortion steam. in ukraine. he went to the ukrainian government, he and his team, and engaged in frankly, what we see, as a conspiracy. saying that he was willing to withhold, and he was willing to hold congressionally mandated funds hostage, in order to extract a fake political story about his political opponent then, now president, joe biden. i think from that history, and you see

so for instance, let's take michael cohen. if he's called as a witness in the manhattan district attorney's case, he's not going to be called in the mar-a-lago case, but in the manhattan district attorney's case, the constitution requires that the government turn over to the defense all of his prior bad acts, everything that could be used to impeach him. most notably, the fact that he has admitted he committed perjury for donald trump, but nevertheless, he committed perjury. so what that letter is saying is, we're going to turn over everything that could be used to undermine the credibility of our witnesses. and that's part of what due process requires of the government and every defendant, whether it's donald trump or somebody who is much less notable without those resources is entitled to get from the government. >> and let's just say donald trump because he does have a pretend twitter, and he does use it quite extensively, were to, what does he call it, truth out something that he learned in this discovery phase. what would

do you think he learned a lesson from michael cohen, and that lesson being keep people who could testify against you incredibly close? >> believe it or not, i believe the president actually likes walt nauta. walt's an affable guy and he spent a great deal of time in the president's company, and i think he actually -- >> he has an incentive, though. >> now he has a great incentive, right? he's a potential witness against him. but i do believe he actually -- that they get along. and have you ever seen the dynamics walt's fixing his collar and helping his ear -- >> in the restaurant he was handing him his -- >> the most intimate moments with combs and brushes and when the president is -- >> i've never seen it linked an intimate -- >> john, we learned today the fulton county sheriff has sent teams both to when mr. trump was indicted here in new york but also today in miami they were there to assess security situations in case there were charges brought in fulton county, georgia. >> so they're doing their homework, which is what are the crowds like, what are the wild cards, what is the experi

i'm told he learned a lot from what happened with michael cohen. >> if you were walt nauta's defense attorney what would you advise him right now? >> i would advise him that we should have taken the plea deal a lot earlier. at this point, and it is kind of late, because they have the evidence, and as time goes on, your value becomes less and less to the prosecution, but he needs to listen and we always tell the client, you know, you have to think about yourself at this point. >> first and foremost think about yourself. absolutely right. dave, the indictment lays out two separate times that trump actually showed classified documents to staffers while he was at his bedminster, new jersey property. could we see additional charges do you believe in new jersey? >> we sure can, wolf. the indictment you see in south florida excludes many facts about trump's actions in bedminster. that leaves open the ability for jack smith to file another action in new jersey. i mean, we don't know, like what about the boxes that were taken there? what is in them? where were they stored at the club? perhaps

. >> david, you know the former president, well do you think you learned a lesson from michael cohen and that lesson being people go testify against you incredibly close? >> believe it or not, i think the president likes -- it is just, he is a laughable, guy and he spent a great deal of time in the presidents, company and i think he actually -- >> he has an incentive though. >> now he has a great incentive. he has a potential witness. but i do believe that he actually, they get along, and if you ever see the dynamics, he is fixing has, color hoping his -- they are inextricably linked for some years, now and kind of the most moments, the brushes, and when the president's most vulnerable behind the stage -- >> more linked in an internment environment. >> absolutely. but i do believe this is not a matter of convenience at this, point they were fence before, that and now maybe more so. >> john, we learn today, the fulton county sheriff has sent teams to both mr. trump down in new york, but also today in miami, they were there to assess certain security situations intent -- in georgia. >>

nbc news has confirmed that the grand jury has been convened for this but former trump lawyer michael cohenfederal prison for his role in the hush money payments, is now playing witness in this latest case >> seth: wait, they're investigating the stormy daniels case again man, they really are bringing back storylines from 2016. if they arrest trump, i hope the fbi agent who puts him in cuffs rips off his mask and says, "hello, donald, it's me. jeb. [ laughter ] "it's too bad you're handcuffed, or i'd tell you to" -- >> please clap [ laughter ] >> seth: "did someone say 'please clap'? [ laughter ] well, you know, i think that's the last time we're going to use the clip of mike pence running and clapping unless -- would it be fun to see what it would look like if the tarmac lights were hooked up to a clapper? [ light laughter ] i think it was a little bit of fun. [ light laughter ] now you might be asking, why are manhattan prosecutors diving back into the stormy daniels case now well, for one thing, it was always very weird that the only guy who did any jail time was trump's ex-fixer michael

because apparently he was concerned like michael cohen and many other examples, he was being pulled into a new active crime, obstruction of justice, in the mueller era, we were told you're also overseeing the doj, maybe it's murky. ain't murky now. you have a lot of evidence that the deference he was given was abused, and then you have a judge who approved the search warrant. that's never been overturned. and found probable cause for the crime fraud exception, translation, looks like you and your lawyer are committing new crimes so we pierce the privilege. so again, presumed innocent, but if i'm handicapping what is likely to be a federal case, very bad for the defendant when you have those standing rulings, the lawyer, and the idea there's more than one crime that's already been sort of half litigated, a lot more evidence than, say, starting from scratch, whose document is this? we'll start from scratch. >> let me cut you off to make this announcement, nbc news has confirmed donald trump has been denited. he's been summoned to appear on tuesday. he was accurate. i want to go to ryan ril

turned on donald trump, michael cohen said he thought there was definitely nefarious intent. he has no evidence of that. but that's his knowledge of donald trump, leads him to believe. what do you think? >> well, all we have to do is look at donald trump's past behavior. and frankly, from the past legal proceedings that he has faced, this is a twice-impeached president but when we rewind and when we rewind the tape and look at donald trump's first impeachment, he used and was unafraid to leverage the power of the united states government in an attempt to engage in an extortion scheme in ukraine. he went to the ukrainian government. he and his team. and engaged in frankly what we see as a conspiracy, saying that he was willing to withhold and he was willing to hold congressionally manndated funds hostage in order to extract a fake political story about his political opponent then, now president joe biden. and i think from that history, and you see that same individual taking troves of documents, sensitive documents about the united states, i do not think we can rule out nefari

michael cohen didn't benefit from arranging those payments.s the one who went to prison form. >> so does he blame corcoran? >> what do you think? >> i wanted to take it back to your question about mark meadows. your question about what could be a possible defense. mark meadows is a tricky witness. and the reason i say that. unless mark meadows is going to say i, mark meadows, did something wrong, i knew that i was trying to overthrow the government. i knew there were classified documents being sent to mar-a-lago. unless he's willing, the "w" word, i did something wrong. he in many ways, donald trump could say, you know, mark meadows had a said he didn't think he was doing anything wrong, he thought he was acting in good faith, that was me, too. when he said he was relying on what counsel said, that he thought there was a good faith argument, that's me, too. so mark meadows, if he is speaking, the issue is how much is he coming clean with what he did? >> that's really interesting. >> mike pence, one of the newly declared candidates, of course,

. >> or michael cohen. >> right.we are not talking about -- we are talking about people who were on his payroll who were texting each other. >> who are still on his payroll. >> exactly. exactly. so doj didn't have a choice but no bring this case and i'm glad the world got to see what the first steps of accountability in the united states looks like. >> reporting over the weekend in the "new york times" about the unprecedented language being used against doj. i am not -- i am not on the trump beat so i am not as up to speed as garrett is with the vicious nature and personal nature of the attacks, but apparently everyone who sees the facts as you do, which at this point includes chris christie and bill par has come under attack but no one more viciously as jack smith. >> right. >> what does -- i know enough about the individuals to know that they charge into, you know, the crisis and they pursue the facts with vigor, but what does the institution do to protect itself and protect its own. >> they put in place people and

michael cohen weighed in last night. >> donald's position is never to settle ever. he thinks it is a sign of weakness. about he doesn't have anybody around him to guide him. he is like a child that just keeps sticking their finger into an electric sockets and then you keep saying don't do it, don't to it, but nevertheless he will do it anyway because in his mind he knows better. >> we are also hearing from merrick garland. sara murray is joining us now. so garland is defending perhaps not surprisingly the special counsel here jack smith. >> yeah, not surprising to hear 34 merrick garland defending him. but the justice department has made very clear that this is jack smith's case. that there are regulations that are guiding this, he is still accountable to the attorney general. but the attorney general now that joe biden is a candidate for president, he wants to take himself out of this and leave the decisions to jack smith. and here is what merrick garland had to say. >> >> as i said when i appointed jack smith, i did so because it underscores the justice department

or you could have michael cohen hug me and then secretly hug him back off the books."me, just some... [applause] a lot of pundits warned that new york would be overwhelmed by an angry maga mob but this morning, there were so few pro maga protesters that reporters had to line up to talk to them. it's never a good sign when there are fewer people at your current rally than there are in prison for your last one. once he saw the weak turnout, the president was quick to blame it on location, posting on truth social: "very unfair venue, with some areas that voted 1% republican. this case should be moved to nearby staten island." yes. making it the first time anyone has ever said, "we should go to staten isl"er is so one maga-laga ding-dong who was there today was marjorie taylor greene. on her way... >> [booing] outside the courthouse she gave an interview about how noble this indictment really is. >> trump is joining some of the most incredible people in history, being arrested today. nelson mandela was arrested, serve time in prison. jesus! jesus was arrested." >> stephen:

prosecutorial attention as two of trump's attorneys have been, evan corcoran and also former fixer michael cohen who was indicted and served jail time. brian todd, cnn, washington. >>> a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor is joining us from new york. thank you so much for joining us. what did we learn yesterday, what was the headline oig would you say some we knew what to expect, but what came out of it for you? >> i think what came out of it for me is not really donald trump but actually his co-defendant walt nauta and what stood out to me in regards to him is that he showed up there and he didn't have an attorney in the sense that the arraignment couldn't go forward. so that stood out to me more than donald trump himself. we knew what the charges are in respect to both of the defendants so it was no surprise. it was a common proceeding that happens at all arraignments. he was told of the charges and given another court date and he pled not guilty. so now the war -- not the fight continues. now it starts in regards to this legal battle having to deal with donald trump. >> one thing

also before the 2016 election trump was recorded in his office by his then lawyer michael cohen. they would buy the rights to former "playboy" playmate karen mcdougal's story. she claims she and trump had an affair which ended in 2007. trump has denied the affair. but listen to him on tape. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david. i've spoken to allen weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up. with -- >> so where are we on -- >> funding. >> yes. >> reporter: before election day trump's friend david pecker, whose company published the "national enquirer," paid mcdougal $150,000 for the rights to her story, then buried it, in what's known as a catch and kill scheme. months before the 2020 election president trump was recorded on a phone call with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. according to a white house transcript trump pressured zelenskyy by asking him to investigate trump's 2020 opponent, joe biden, as well as biden's son hunter, who once had business in ukraine. later trump repeatedly referred to the call lik

this is not michael cohen who is a bad witness and you don't care, but corcoran has much more clout andibility. so a lot of things that will happen. subpoenas that will be issued by the defense. >> do i think this goes all the way up to the supreme court? that is what tim pal tory is predicting. >> i think there is always a possibility, first of all, a unique case that has been unheard of before. when you have a former president who is now in federal court, there are issues that are legitimate issues. i think there is a lot of weight -- >> why would the supreme court revisit that question? because that came from a supreme court decision. they had already decided on that. that there is a crime fraud exception to attorney/client privilege. why would they revisit what they already said is precedent? >> i think that there will be new challenges thousas now with team, not at the grand jury stage, but now at the trial stage. and there is also going to be separate to what you are -- interlocker to appeals, that could delay this as well, other issues will come up where they say we can't proceed

they have a tape in the new york district attorney's office that corroborates michael cohen. they have got a couple of tapes in the georgia case that are going to make him the star witness in that case, and so what we are going to see is that donald trump is the star witness in three prosecutions. >> jim, what are you seeing in this new reporting coming out of what the prosecutors have in their hand. >> what do you see, jim? >> they have more or they would not have brought the case. he says they are succinctly bringing the case. and again, quoting bill barr, they offered to, and they asked for the documents back, and they asked for the documents and according to bill barr, all they did was to jerk around the justice department, and when that happens, that is when you open the door to all of the other problems that are really just former president's feet. >> nick, looking at the transcript, and look at it from the counter perspective and the defense team's strategy, if you will. what defense do you put up if you have the president's own words presented to the jury. >> zero. yo

and trump's former fixer, michael cohen had this reaction. >> he's like a child that keeps sticking theirger in an electric socket. >> cnn did speak to sources dl close to trump's legal team they are casting doubt whether there was any real opportunity for settlement like this. >> this new reporting from the post is posing key legal questions this morning. elie honig joins us now. good morning. this reporting underscores maybe the charges could have been avoided if the documents were turned over. >> yes, when people say this is a self-inflicted wound, this underscores it. there was about a year's worth of time when it was the archives, no doj, and archives was negotiated with donald trump. if someone had gotten to him back then, you need to come clean, get in touch with the archives, make it available, give it to them, i think there is a chance this could have gone away without criminal charges we know that because the 15 bokxes of documents he did turn over, none of them are charged. in 2022, doj gets involved and at this point trump is still playing games, obstructing justice, then the

michael cohen, you got evan corcoran, federal district judge found that it was a crime committed between -- and john eastman, to pierce attorney-client privilege. they're the real to pierce attorney-client privilege in the terms of evan corcoran in the documents case. in this case, can you voluntary cooperate against your own client? >> well, a lot of it, they are looking at for rudy giuliani, is not legal advice. in fact, the white house counsel's office told him this whole fake electors scheme is blatantly illegal. >> you're talking outside the purview -- >> it's not legal advice and what they were actually doing with in gauging in a political strategy to try and overturn the election. there's ample evidence of that. when rudy giuliani had his law license suspended, the 33-page opinion go through a litany of all the false statements that rudy giuliani went into that were factually false and that he knew to be false, claiming there were dead voters, that they were on registered voters, non-citizens. all of it nonsense. the pressure campaign for the state officials, all things that rudy

as such trump is free in his mind to make these damaging comments to his own lawyers,'s michael cohen. you see a lot of the damn evidence coming from evan corcoran. so when the department of justice got access to evan corcoran's voice notes and notes -- these were copious notes under the theory of cya, because that's what corcoran was doing. he wanted to cover himself in case he were ever charged with anything. it's a treasure trove that details trump's involvement from beginning to end in all of this. my favorite part is where donald trump wanted corcoran to be like hillary clinton's lawyer, who he believe covered up for her, delighted all the email. this is why he ran for president, i'm going to lock you up and put you in jail. now he wants his lawyer to be like hillary clinton's. it's really ironic. >> there's a high turnover rate of his legal team. you saw on friday he removed two of his top legal attorneys. todd blanch, a defense lawyer he hired april after being indicted in manhattan, he will take the lead. you had trustee and rally being removed from the legal team. what's the

you had the manhattan indictment with michael cohen. now you have evidence ran corcoran. you say corcoran was probably the source of the search warrant after he realized he was being played by trump. that's a theory. we don't know that as fact right now. >> well, i think i'm right because there's no other way -- first of all, to put that into a search warrant, the probable cause for this obstruction had to come from an inside wednesday who laid it out. you don't conduct the search on a former president's residence without having a real solid probable cause. you're not going to put in circumstantial evidence. certainly corcoran was in a position where he had to realize at some point that there were 30 boxes that were hidden from him that he didn't get to look at. so she the logical person that was the inside source that gave this to the fbi. i might also add in terms of lawyers and the reaction to trump and what they've done, you've also got john eastman in the georgia case who also had one of his emails produced to the january 6th committee because of a statement in furth

this is not michael cohen.n't where you go oh, i'm going to put on someone who's got a lot of baggage. here you've got employee one. employee to. attorney one. attorney to. attorney three. it goes on and on. as you said, text messages, tapes, everything is corroborated. this isn't something where you can say, gee, there's a defense. i'm going to attack someone's credibility. these are his people. they seem to be corroborated one side down the other. >> in fact, lawrence, we had reporting from the very beginning about the videotapes. of them moving the boxes. which seems to be confirmed here. they don't quite say videotapes, but they just take in these indictment. these boxes were moved at this particular time, as a statement of facts. >> you can read a stack of random indictments. and not find quotation marks in them. not fine quotation marks saying the person said exactly these words. and prosecutors won't use quotation marks unless they can actually prove every one of those words. not just the gist of it. he

. >> at some point if this persists, she'll call them in and like they said to michael cohen, cool it. we don't want to hear all of this. because remember there is a jury that has to be selected. and if you're poisoning the jury pool, what trump doesn't realize, i don't think, is that if he completely poisoned the jury pool, the prescriosecutors say we can't get a fair trial here and it is usually the defendant that does that, but if the well is so poisoned by his rhetoric, he may find himself in a different jurisdiction. >> and sarah, in terms just of stepping back an looking at why the former president is running to be president again, he would only get four more years. what do you think is really the driving factor here? >> i think that by running for president he could potentially pardon himself of any crimes that he may face or convictions for any of these investigations. i mean, you look at it, we already have two indictments potentially more coming down the road. and so he knows that he had legal trouble and so he's hoping that he could get back to the white house and probably

and just to go back to the why for a second, i remember a couple of months ago, i spoke to michael cohenbout this who worked with trump, and he said it is for the bragging rights some of it. this is before we knew exactly what was in here, and it is true that there were things that he liked to show off, like the kim jong-un letter s or the sharpie map, but what is interesting about the indictment is that he was personally going through these boxes. if you are looking at the indictment, they have a text exchange between trump employee two, walt nauta, i delivered some, but i think that he may need more. knocked out two boxes, and he is tracking the boxes. this is showing a level of interest in what was in there. andy mccabe mouthed the word intent, so i will take intent, but the level of how sensitive these classified documents appeared to be and the fact that he was going through them, and he would not give them back is going to say a lot in this case. >> and not only was he going through them in florida at mar-a-lago, but he took some of them with him up to bedminster, and he had a spec

michael cohen got charged and trump was not.ame close to trump. you have to remember somebody who has a military background is going to view the commander in chief differently. i think walt nauta described as not political and not having side games as many trump's aides was accused of doing. >> he was risking to get into jail. >> we'll see if that happens. but, i do think that walt nauta is a case study and what happens to people who are loyal to trump and we have seen it over and over. >> lee zeldin, let's go back to politics now. for republican voters, what about this idea that there may be as the republican campaign goes on, trump fatigue. they're worried he's bringing too much baggage to the general election. >> at this point and the fact he keeps ongoing up in the polls as this stuff is happening. i think a lot of that is baked in. if you are tired of who president trump is or how he speaks or acts, this is 201 2016. it is now a long time and people know who he is and they know what they get. i thought when the bragg indict

walt nauta now finds himself in the company of former trump lawyer and fixer michael cohen and formerrump organization cfo allen weisselberg, people who worked directly with trump who were targeted by prosecutors. >> donald trump like most mob bosses doesn't feel beholden to the people beneath him. so loyalty is a one way street. he never demonstrates loyalty to others. >> reporter: if convicted on all or some of the charge, walt nauta faces significant prison time. his attorney has declined to comment to cnn about the case. brian todd, cnn, washington. >>> newly declassified report by u.s. intelligence warns that americans' personal data is being sold and used by u.s. and foreign spy agencies. this personal data can be anything from commercially available information to go owe location data, phone records, and it can be easily bought online. experts say agencies should be made to catalog what data they buy and develop guidance for protecting that data for people's privacy. one u.s. lawmaker is calling on congress to do more on regulating private companies that collect the data and ke

that was, of course, fixer michael cohen on with kitty bang this morning.askin of maryland. he's the ranking member of the house oversight committee. congressman, thank you for being with us this evening. >> great to be with you. >> i've been anxious to talk to you to get your take on where we are on this moment. you have been so intimately involved with everything to do with donald trump presidency, in particular the end of it and january six and the justice that he has evaded in that amount of time. this feel serious. this indictment -- you are a lawyer -- this indictment for those of us who are not lawyers raises a serious document in which the prosecutors have done their homework. >> well, it's been astonishing to me from the beginning that after inciting a violent insurrection against the union that donald trump, instead of retiring quickly take a play call that to keep a low profile, decided to kill for hundreds of confidential documents, secret document's, top seaport documents and had to play a game of cat and mouse with the fbi and the grand jury a