judge jay michael luttig is a former federal judge of the u.s. court of appeals for the fourth circuit. lawrence tribe is professor emeritus at harvard law school and the author of the book, american constitutional law. a quick programming note, tomorrow night, all be hosting special coverage. join msnbc's many often, in hidden, elation ended, al sharpton, and, before analysis of the gop reckoning with republicans facing a seminal moment of a front-runner facing federal charges. that's tomorrow night, eight pm eastern, on msnbc. you are watching velshi. velshi. on a hard seltzer budget... wayfair's got just what you need! what... y'all this is nice. salad plates? kelly clarkson? i'm fancy now! i have always wanted statement lighting. get nice things at nice prices at wayfair! ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ (dad) we got our subaru forester wilderness to discover all of the places that make us feel something more. (vo) subaru is the national park foundation's largest corporate donor, helping expand access for all. more shopping? you shoul

former homeland security secretary jeh johnson, retired federal judge michael luttig. thanks both of you for taking on an enormous task. we look forward to seeing your work. >> thank you, andrea. >> thank you. >>> an impact statement. how the decisive vote in ohio could fuel other campaigns. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. ndrea mitcllhe reports. this is msnbc. back at red lobst. when you can choose your crab, and one of three new flavors like honey sriracha... ...this is not your grandpa's crabfest... ...unless grandpa's got flavor. dayumm! crabfest is here for a limited time. welcome to fun dining. have fun, sis! ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) can't stop adding stuff to your cart? get the bank of america customized cash rewards card, choose the online shopping category and earn 3% cash back. tide is busting laundry's biggest myth... that cold water can't clean. - food fight!! - food fight!! ♪♪ cold water, on those stains? welp, only one way to find out... tide cleans better in cold than the leading bargain detergent in warm. ♪♪ cold water can't clean tough s

when the history of these times is written, judge michael luttig will be remembered as a modern day paulhappen. and that is particularly notable, given that judge luttig is a conservative's conservative. he was appointed by george h.w. bush, he was on the short list of potential supreme court nominees under george w. bush, his son. judge luttig is and was as the "washington post" puts it, quote, one of the most celebrated legal minds of his generation and, quote, one of the leading conservative intellectuals in the legal system whose views about crime and the rule of law stand out and sit adjacent to a years' long campaign for justice following the tragic murder of his own father. on that front, we learned in some excellent reporting from the "washington post" that it was judge luttig's mentor, then supreme court justice antonin scalia who would be the person to knock on judge luttig's door in the dark of night to deliver the tragic news of his father's death. judge luttig's republican conservative cred are so unimpeachable that in their hour of need mike pence and his attorney richard c

that former george michael luttig joins me now. momentous week for you sir. i know that you are not looking at all to be part of history january six january for 2020. but your fingerprints are kind of all over. mike pence had the courage to continue to say we had to say despite the pressure that donald trump's attorneys are putting on him, because you had told his attorney that this is a nonstarter. . >> i thank you for coming on this morning. the world who will now bear witness to history as the first american president goes on trial for grave offenses against the united states. the days all the more tragic, big hugs the former president chose to inflict this day and this moments. on the nation. and on the world. on any given day since january six 2021. the former president could have avoided and prevent to this indictment and prosecution and trial. we now know that the former president did not want to avoid prosecution for these offenses. he wanted locksmith to indict him and try and for these grave offenses. to prove to the world to -- the 2020 election wh

. >> and your must listen to podcasts, you interviewed judge michael luttig this week. one of the things that michael luttig, who's a conservative judge and is -- and in a way, affected council, mike pence, not to throw down the election. but michael luttig suggested that trump's best defenses have already been tried in federal court as part of the january 6th investigation. do you think that's true? the privileged thing has already been litigated. the best avenues he has to manage a reasonable defensive already tried and failed. >> one of his points that i think is really relevant, and it's so appropriate to raise right now, and i'm really glad that you're raising this. he was saying that in the context of a question to him about given your experience as a season's federal judge in the fourth circuit, do you think that that would be consistent with due process for any defendant, including donald trump to have a trial before the general election? the rule of law requires people to have enough time to mount a defense, looking at discovery to make those motions. that's re

the article is a joint effort by the retired former federal judge, jay michael luttig, and legal scholar, lawrence tribe. they voiced their support for -- paper, while also adding their own arguments for why trump is constitutionally disqualified from the presidential race. quote. if donald trump or to be reelected, how could any citizen trust that he would uphold the oath of office he would take upon his inauguration? as recently as last december, the former president posted on truth social, his persistent view that the last presidential election was a, quote, massive fraud, and quote. one that allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the constitution. and quote. no person who sought to overthrow our constitution and thereafter declared that it should be terminated and that he be immediately returned to the presidency can, in good faith, take the oath that article two section one demands of any president elect, quote, before he and tours on the institution of his office, and quote. i implore you to read this article in full. it has been pub

michael luttig, judge michael luttig, a friend of the show along with lawrence tribe were on ali velshithis weekend. they were discussing a recent piece they wrote, a lot of us have seen a caught people's attention in the atlantic titled, the constitution prohibits trump from ever being president again. here's what tribe had to say. take a listen. >> although those primal -- are terribly important. and it's vital of the president be held accountable and not get away scot-free. the disqualification clause operates by itself. >> and, your thoughts on the arguments being made here. does the constitution on its own disqualify donald trump from running for president. and if so, how does this play out. we'll all be up to congress, individual states to decide whether he should be on the ballot. you know the republican party won't take action about it, they've lost credibility and aspiring to be able to stand up to donald trump. but the case being made by professor tribe and judge luttig is that the constitution is clear. he shouldn't be running for president. >> i think we might need to unders

micha michael luttig., he worked in the reagan white house, served as a law clerk to the late titan antonin scalia. they join us now for their first joint appearance as co-chairs. judge, let me begin with you. for everyone watching at home, what will the task force do for them? >> good morning, poppy. thank you very much for having secretary johnson and me on this morning. the most important issue facing the country between now and the election this 2024 is american democracy. the american bar association, under the new leadership of its new president, mary smith, has created a task force on american democracy, which will explore the causes and the reasons for the denigration in the perception of american democracy by the american people and will explore ways in which to rehabilitate and restore confidence of the american people in our elections and in our democracy. >> mr. secretary, how do you change hearts and minds when so many lives are still being yelled -- lies are being yelled so loudly by leading

as well, a retired conservative federal judge, michael luttig. here is michael luttig making the case on this network. >> disqualification provision of section three of the 14th amendment, and therefore the imposition of that qualification for the presidency is stated and perhaps clearest language possible. and the constitution. it is unmistakably applicable to the former president and his role and activities on january 6th. >> and now one florida lawyer has in fact answered the call to action. tax attorney learn -- using the 14th amendment to challenge the ex presidents ability to run in 2024. of course, we will see how caplan plays out in court after all. it is an untested novel legal theory. the truth, is we need the so-called novel ideas to challenge someone like trump, the first ex president to face not one but two not three but four criminal indictments. frankly, the states of trump's returning to the oval office are far too high to ignore under the circumstances. as david atkins points out in a new piece for washington monthly, a trump vic

he had this council, you know, the council decided to call jay michael luttig, the judge, who told himou can't do this. the guy said, i need some cover. so, luttig decided to tweet out, we know how that happened. but once we know from pence's own contemporaneous notes, what was happening in his conversations with donald trump, what does that do to strengthen the argument, if at all? >> well, it's just sort of closes the loop. we have a lot of information from vice president pence's staff, his chief of staff, as general counsel, about the interactions. but the allegations in the indictment that described with, as you know, reference to vice president pence's contemporary notice, really sort of seal the deal in terms of the relentlessness of the pressure that former president trump was putting on as vice president, the fact that his vice president was telling him repeatedly, i cannot do this. this is inappropriate. your own lawyers are telling you it's inappropriate. and those sorts of details really add flavor to that sort of dynamic, and i think are incredibly damning. >> what's your s

joining me now is michael luttig and constitutional law scholar. with you, and i want to read from section 3 of the 14th amendment which is what you focus on. it is known as the disqualification clause and it was passed after the civil war to deal with former confederate officials and it says in part, quote, no person shall hold any office, civil or military, under the united states or any state who having previously taken an oath to support the constitution of the united states shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. you're arguing that it applies today, but we should be clear here, donald trump hasn't been charged directly with rebellion, sedition and treason. so can you explain why you believe he's disqualified from office? certainly, kasie. when that language was written it was clear that the insurrectionists were not going to be criminally prosecute said because the president of the time, that became part of the constitution was andrew johnson, no longer abraham lincoln.

former judge michael luttig writes, the former president's efforts to overturn the 2020 presidentiallection and the resulting attack on the u.s. capitol place him squarely within the ambit of the disqualification clause and he is therefore ineligible to serve as president ever again and professor laurence tribe and michael luttig join me to talk about it. it's ang honor to have you both on. thanks for doing this. your argument just to explain to our viewers essentially comes down to these two sentences in the constitution's 14th amendment, no person shall be a senator or representative in congress or elector of president and vice president who having previously taken an oath as an officer of the united states to support the constitution of the united states shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same or given aid or comfort to the enemies there of. i'm proud of myself for getting through all of that without messing up but let me go to both of you on this, gentlemen. how is this going to work, because donald trump is not going to say, you got me. i'm disqualified.

judge michael luttig and lauren stripe look claimed on this very show last weekend baton only is donaldd from being president again, they outlined how that can be enforced. coming up, next i will be joined by another important legal mind who is vowing to do just that. just that. (christina) with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. so, no matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutrition. together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. yaaay! woo hoo! ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ i'm patriotic kenny. and, hi, i'm aman

. >> that night, pence outside lawyer, richard cohen, phone retired judge michael luttig.0 or 25 years ago. and he said, well, john is advising the president and the vice president that the vice president does not have to accept the electoral college votes as they had been cast. i said, well, richard, you could tell the vice president that i said he has no such authority whatsoever. >> why did you take to twitter? >> the next morning, richard calls. and he said, look, we have to get your voice out to the country immediately. within the next hour or two. >> judge michael luttig, with the help of his son, sent his first ever twitter thread. >> my son sent me twitter instructions on how to tweet a thread of individual tweets that were under 140 -- i had no earthly idea what this is about. i just told my son, send it to me right now or i will cut you out of the will. >> he read me some of that red. >> the only responsibility and power of the vice president under the constitution is to faithfully count the electoral college votes as they have been cast. the constitution does no

the program, i spoke with at the are nounld constitutional scholars and retired federal judge michael luttigply could not be any clearer. it is unmistakable in its application to the former president. >> what it means is that secretaries of state or other officials who are responsible for deciding who is qualified and who is not will have to determine whether despite his obvious attempt to overturn the 2020 election, and engage in insurrection, whether despite that, somehow trump gets to run. this is going to end up in the supreme court. it is a monumental issue. the most important constitutional issue of our day and people have got to get used to the fact that whatever happens in these very important trials of the president under the constitution's own language, he is not eligible to be president again. >> let's discuss with the filmmaker who had access to trump in his inner circle while making the documentary unprecedented. great to see you again. you had a lot of time with the former president during the waning days of had it is presidency. how do you think he might react to what would be

he clerked for esteemed judges, including appeals court judge michael luttig, was considered for a supreme court seat by george w. bush, and then after that for supreme court justice clarence thomas. eastman exchanged emails with thomas's wife during the postelection period. he's also believed to be coconspirator number two in jack smith's federal indictment of the ex president. he has now been officially criminally indicted and booked. now he has legal fees and a trial to prepare for. he claims he was not doing anything wrong, that this indictment in georgia is the criminalization of first amendment redress of agreements and political activity. but we know thanks to the january 6th committee, that even john eastman knew what he was doing was unlawful. >> john eastman admitted in advance of the 2020 election that mike pence could not lawfully refused to count official electoral votes. but he nevertheless devised a marriage with company proposal that deployed of bogus election fraud claims and the fake electoral ballots to say that mike pence, presiding of the joint session, could reject le

michael luttig, wrote the former presidents efforts to overturn the election and the resulting attack within the ambit of the disqualification clause, and he is there for an eligible to serve as president ever again. the most pressing constitutional question facing our country at this moment, then, is whether we will abide by this clear command of the 14th amendments disqualification clause. professor laurence tribe is back with us. professor, what did donald trump do to activate the disqualification clause and how is that clause activated? >> the clause was put in the constitution to make sure of those people who attempt to overthrow the federal government, and its processes, not just the confederate rebels -- but it was a permanent part of the constitution. the people who tried to overthrow the constitution of the united states, or given aid or comfort to the enemies of the united states, have taken an oath to uphold the constitution, could never again hold office. it was not a punishment. it had nothing to do with being prosecuted. in fact the people who wrote that, wrote it at a t

constitutional legal scholar, a conservative judge michael will you tellic, michael luttig were here impeachment. he's already disqualified from holding office under the 14th amendment. they have a new article about this in the atlantic. i spoke with them both about this earlier this afternoon. it was an honor to have them both on. i want to have you both respond. >> secretaries of state or other officials who are responsible for deciding who is qualified and who is not will have to determine whether despite his obvious attempt to overturn the 2020 election and engage in insurrection, somehow trump gets to run. whichever way they go, they'll be challenged in court. that will end up in the supreme court. and what it will have to do is what this language means. >> what do you think about what the judge and the professor have to say here? do you think this could work? >> i mean, i think it is great. i think they may be right. this will get kicked up to the supreme court. you'll remember trump install three justices on the supreme court and two of the previous justices before he installe

. >> i spoke yesterday with mic michael luttig. events will forever scar and stain the united states and they will forever scar and stain the united states in the eyes of the world. never again will the world be inspired by america's democracy in the way it has been inspired since america's founding almost 250 years ago. it's a really sad statement. do you think that's true? >> i've known mike for a lot of years, have a lot of respect for him. i don't agree with him on that point. i think trump is an aberration. i think he is so unlike any other american president that the stain will be on him. any country -- >> so many republicans are still voting for him, they're still supporting him. he could win. >> the case -- he could. but it is not a reflection, i think, on the country. it is a reflection on trump's unique ability to lie and get away with it, as he has for many years. >> ambassador bolton, thank you so much. >> thank you. >>> coming up next, the security preparations underway for the former president's court appearance tomor

jill, constitutional scholars michael luttig, and laurence tribe are making the argument that trump isineligible to become president again because of the 14th amendment, because it states anyone who gives aid and comfort to an insurrection cannot hold public office. quote, the former presidents efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election, and the resulting attack on the capitol, place him squarely within the ambit of the disqualification clause. and he is therefore ineligible to serve as president ever again. the most pressing constitutional question facing our country at this moment, then, is whether we will be able to abide by this clear command of the 14th amendments disqualification clause. i wonder, jill, if you agree. >> how could you disagree with two eminent constitutional scholars like laurence tribe and judge luttig? i think that they have made a very persuasive case. they have laid it out very clearly, setting out why they think it is self executing. in the past, people have said, oh, you can't bar him unless he is convicted of a crime of insurrection. they make a ver

. >> i spoke last night with retired federal judge michael luttig who is a conservative and advised viceresident pence not to interfere with the electorate certifications. he said that these events will further scar the united states, and it will forever and stay in the united states in the eyes of the world, never again will the world be inspired by america's democracy in the way that it has been inspired since america's founding almost 250 years ago. it is a really sad statement. do you think that is true? >> i've known like for many years, i have a lot of respect for, and i don't agree with him on that point. i think trump is an aberration. i think he is so unliked, any other american president, that the stain will be on him for any other country to have -- >> so many republicans are still voting for, and they are still supporting him. >> he could win. >> the case, he could, it's, but, it's not a reflection i think on the country. it is reflection on trump's unique ability to lie and get away with it as he has for many years. >> ambassador bolton, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> c

my next guest, michael luttig provided a stark warning and said our democracy can on a knife's edge.he writes, the former president is neither a victim nor a martyr today. america is donald trump's victim. donald trump has martyred america for his own selfish personal and political ambitions. judge luttig joins me now. appreciate you being with us on this sad day. you also said in your statement tonight that, quote, these are as grave of offenses against the united states as a president could commit, save possibly treason. are you satisfied with the scope, the substance of the indictment? >> anderson, thank you for having me with you tonight. this is an historic day. it's also a tragic day and it is also a regrettable day for america. for the first time in american history, a president of the united states has been indicted. he will be prosecuted now. he will be tried for grave offenses against the united states. those grave offenses are the offenses that he committed on -- in and around january 6th in his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election and for his role in the att

now from retired federal appeals court judge and distinguished conservative legal scholar, jay michael luttig. we did spokes shortly before airtime. >> judge, we mentioned the fulton county d. a. is asking for a march 4th start date for this trial. two months after special counsel jack smith's proposed start date. what do you make of that date? and which of these trials do you think will go first? >> anderson, thank you for having me on tonight. it's my pleasure. at this point, early, it's impossible to know exactly how, or even whether, these various trials of the former president will be sequenced. and held. i believe that the courts involved will cooperate with each other. and sequence the trials in such a manner as to ensure that the former president's tried on all of these matters. before the 2024 election. i am relatively confident that, if that's not possible, that the trials will be sequenced such that the trial of the former president on the charges relating to january 6th and the attack on the united states capitol of that date, will proceed first. i believe, to conclusion, before t

they had interviewed michael luttig, all federal judges, all conservative. and the president followed to get to the chief, john roberts. but he went with his gut for harriet miers. a friend of his, also someone he knew in his mind would be conservative enough. remember, he was a a composite conservative. he thought that she was they had their friendship. he thought they had he thought she was meritorious and he thought that she would be a good supreme court justice. you might recall that that didn't work. and so we had the opportunity and i to bring harriet miers here to interview her. we went to washington to interview alberto gonzales. we interviewed karl rove. we interviewed chief justice rehnquist or excuse me, -- cheney, all the people who had served on that process committee. and as it turned out, the right wing of the president's party did not want harriet miers that o'connor seat, because you might remember it was called the swing seat. she a moderate conservative and sometimes voted with liberals, particularly on abortion and affirmative action and

. >> in the last hour, i had a conversation with jay michael luttig, who you know, a conservative journalist who made the interesting point that while this trial is crucial, not just for the first counts, but that fourth and final count, the violation of rights, the election may be more important. that maybe not where a jury of donald trump's peers decide what happens to the future of this country, but where americans who have the vote decide what happens to this country. tell me about that. you investigated this from a legal perspective, although you are not a prosecutorial body. in the end, donald trump could be in jail and still be the next president of the united states. >> well, you know, that's for the lawyers and jurors to determine how about that. i'm convinced, that is right. not only could he be there, he would have civil service protection that's guaranteed in it. former president for life. there are some answers going with this. tied to this, i'm not certain that we should delay the election. just because a person is running for office, there's no reason to say we need to put it

. >> we'll speak with retired judge, michael luttig, a long time conservative who's raising alarms about back tomize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i suffer with psoriatic arthritis and psoriasis. only pay for what you need. i was on a journey for a really long time to find some relief. cosentyx works for me. cosentyx helps real people get real relief from the symptoms of psoriatic arthritis or psoriasis. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to or if ibd symptoms develop or worsen. i move so much better because of cosentyx. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? ask about vraylar. because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms - with vraylar. som

he's a partner at the law firm call weiss, and retired judge jay michael luttig, who served on the united states court of appeals for the fourth circuit. >> let me begin with you, i just have to say thank you for your strong, uncompromising voice on protecting and defending the constitution, of the united states. a friend of mine actually on tv said i like the new judge luttig, and my response was, it's the same judge who has always respected and defended the constitution of the united states. talk about this task force and also the threat from our party, my former party. i would guess your former party. talk about is that to democracy that is before us now? because of the undermining of the rule of law. >> micah and joe, thank you so much for inviting a secretary johnson and me to join you this morning and introduce the country to the american bar association's new task force. american democracy is in crisis today. it is the most important issue facing the nation, between now and 2025. and even beyond. the continuing false claims, to this day, that the 2020 presidential election was stol

michael luttig is a highly respected retired judge. he did not hear any of the trump fraud cases. he and his colleagues that analyzed more than 60 of them. >> we reviewed each individual claim and decided there was nothing that would have changed the result in a single precinct, let alone a single state, let alone nationally. >> ahead. >> you are asking me to do something that is against my oath. i am not going to do that. >> donald trump puts the squeeze on statehouse leaders across the country. >> going to have a big impact on tuesday if you guys don't get this thing straightened out fast. communities and the people who live and work there grow and thrive. we're proud to call these places home too. they're where we put down roots, and where together, we work to help move everyone's financial goals forward. pnc bank. ♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. that can be analyzed by ai in real time. ♪ so researchers can identify which areas are at risk. and help life underwater flourish. ♪ ♪ i'm currently out of

. >> a chilling, deliberate, thoughtful warning from conservative judge michael luttig on this very programt to american democrat see posed by one of the two political parties in our country. the state of that other party will be on full display tonight over on fox news when eight of the 14 republican candidates for the nomination will take the stage in milwaukee for the first 2024 republican primary debate. donald trump won't be there. he's the party's friend front-runner based on polls. his shadow and what he's turned his party into is sure to loom large. joining our conversation, co-founder and executive director of protect democracy, ian bassen is here with us. joining david and me at the table, new york times domestic correspondent, nick corsonini. i have this idea that before we all lose our minds in the personalities of the republican primary and there are a lot and there's lots to say and the conspiracy theories and the sort of the national a dreenl glands could be charged every 15 minutes with the outrageous things they say and maybe we should pump the brakes and evaluate them for

from ever holding public office again caught our attention last week when the conservative judge michael luttigdorsed the theory that trump is disqualified based on section 3 of the 14th amendment, which says that nobody who's taken an oath to support the constitution of the united states if they engage in insurrection or rebellion against the united states can hold any federal, state, or military office. i paraphrased there. the idea is now gaining momentum. on friday an attorney in florida filed a suit trying to disqualify donald trump from the 2024 race. now in new hampshire the secretary of state, david scanlon, is seeking legal advice on whether he can take trump's name off the ballot. scanlon telling "the boston globe" that "not being a lawyer and not wanting to make a decision in a vacuum, i will be soliciting some legal opinions on what is appropriate or not before i make any decision." one lawyer giving scanlon his opinion is a former trump-endorsed senate candidate. corky messner. who's joined the growing chorus of legal minds arguing that the former president may be ineligible to run

luttig. you mentioned larry tribe. will bode and michaelnent conservative law professors who have just come out with this amazing article saying this is a no-brainer. this is the plain text of the 14th amendment provides for this. provides for everything that ron is saying, and that it's self-executing, and there is an amazing line in it that says "this section 3 is enacted by the enactment of the 14th amendment. it's disqualified wherever it is triggered." "just is." that's the language it has. this isn't a crazy idea that john east cooked up that the court batted away. this is a very, very serious bunch of legal scholars using originalism to say this is as operative today as it was when it was drafted, and it is in force, and it is not even a question that it must be enforced. so you're quite right. this will percolate through the courts. it will probably make its way to the supreme court. i don't think there are six or five or even four justices who have an appetite for continuing to hold up donald trump as a paragon of democracy and a b