mr. nunberg yesterday, roger stone today, and you here tonight on "the beat." when you heard mr. criticize the mueller investigators and say their search was overbroad, he felt initially unfair, how does that compare with your experience since you did an interview with them? >> first of all, there is something that being interview with the fbi taught me, is that a witness is the last person to understand the real situation in the context of the testimony. i don't agree with in nunberg when he says it's completely useless and he declines to cooperate with the subpoena. he's surprised he's subpoenaed, but until the moment of the interview, i couldn't understand the real events of my prosecution. certainly as witnesses the biggest contribution we can contribute is to be truthful. i will say something else concerning my situation, i was not voluntarily talking to the fbi, i was subpoenaed to appear in front of the grand jury in washington myself, and if mr. nunberg is surprised that being an american citizen and working with mr. trump, you can imagine how surprising it was being a for

mr. nunberg, saw that coming down the pike and had a reaction. i was able to speak with him and his father briefly last night, and he seemed to be evolving as people have reported over the course of the day in what he learned. he may be sort of living out loud a process of understanding this. but again, regardless of mr. nunberg's words and performance, we have now learned that bob mueller's investigators do want to put nunberg in the grand jury box. they would either want to do that to put heat on him or to gather evidence to put heat on someone else. as i mentioned, that's something that's different than how many other witnesses have been treated. >> does the extent of the subpoena, bob bauer, tell you anything that you didn't already infer about mueller, the breadth and sweep of mueller's investigation? >> candidly not. i think most people who have followed the public reports on this so far or have looked at the indictments that have been issued in this case, would have immediately listed the names appearing on the subpoenaed documents that ha

mr. nunberg legal advice. he should consult with his own lawyer about what he should do in this case, but if his evidence is that roger did nothing wrong, he should say that to the grand jury. they can exonerate any of pieth people -- >> what if they want me again? how many times do i have to go to the grand jury? >> if the grand jury wanted you again, it would be because there's additional information forth coming that they did not have the opportunity to ask you about. i think this is important here. sam, you got immunity, so you have no reason not to testify. as you told us today. >> yeah. >> not only that, not only that, it actually makes it appear that roger stone has something to hide because you will not go testify. >> he has nothing to hide. >> well, then go testify. >> you know what, i'll tell you what, okay, so i don't mind about testifying. i'm not going to sit there for 80 hours for the document request. i have real work to do. i have to earn a living. >> mm-hm. >> i don't think this is fair. i don

mr. nunberg is in his interview. but just because the questions to mr. rg focussed on the business, doesn't seem to be the full scope. the questions they're asking sam nunberg may be different than the questions they're asking other people. so interesting, maybe part of the investigation, but not all of the investigation. >> bthank you both for joining us. >>> christopher steele has written another memo that said russia interfered with president trump's choice for secretary of state. ♪ ♪ (vo) you can pass down a subaru forester. but you get to keep the memories. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. (avo) get 0% apr financing on all new 2018 subaru forester models. now through april 2nd. imagine if the things you bought every day... earned you miles to get to the places you really want to go. with the united mileageplus explorer card, you'll get a free checked bag. two united club passes. priority boarding. and earn fifty thousand bonus miles after you spend three thousand dollars on purchases in the first three months from account opening plus, zero-

mr. nunberg is in his interview. but just because the questions to mr. nunberg focussed on the business, doesn't seem to be the full scope. the questions they're asking sam nunberg may be different than the questions they're asking other people. so interesting, maybe part of the investigation, but not all of the investigation. >> thank you both for joining us. >>> christopher steele has written another memo that said russia interfered with president trump's choice for secretary of state. >>> the new yorker reported today that christopher steele, the former british spy who compiled the trump-russia >>> the new yorker reported today that christopher steele, the former british spy who compiled the trump-russia dossier filed another memo claiming russia interfered in the cabinet selections. it's shorter than the rest and is based on one source, described as a senior russian official. but what he heard was astonishing. people were saying that the kremlin had intervened to block trump's initial choice for secretary of state, mitt romney. the unpublished memo sa

mr. rucker, who is this guy? >> that's a great question, brian. sam nunberg was sort of the keeper of trump's political operation, to the extent he had a political manager in those years in the run up to the campaign, it was sam nunberg. he worked really closely were roger stone, who he said was his mentor. and sam would arrange his schedule, his campaign appearances and so forth around the country before he launched his campaign. then when he launched his campaign in 2015, nunberg very soon thereafter had a falling out. he was forced out by corey lewandowski, the campaign manager at the time and in part because of racially charged facebook posts found on nunberg's facebook account. it was a pretty clean break from the trump operation and nunberg has not been in the president's good graces since then. he's had a couple conversations with trump, but there was a lawsuit at one point and the white house staff really have attacked his credibility and see him as very much a fringe figure in the trump orbit today. >> john heilemann, a friend of mine says there's be

mr. nunberg, and bill crystal, editor-in-chief of the weekly standard.at we have learned in the last three days about what mueller is focused on? >> it's been a very busy three days, and mueller, the fact that he's following the money and influence has gotten him one step closer to donald trump. >> that's clear to you? >> that's clear. >> why do you subpoena nunberg? they're tightening the screws on nunberg. and what's the point of nunberg? to get to roger stone. it's clear from nunberg's statement that he would do anything for roger stone. and roger stump was donald trump's closest advisor and stone was also paul manafort's partner back in the day. so stone, manafort, flynn, it strikes me that he's made quite a lot of are grprogress. >> you know if you look at what paul manafort was doing, he was working with roger stone taking all foreign clients that literally no one else would take. as a person who openly bragged about his link to julian assange, who's now caught up in the potential russian plot. take a look. >> first of all, i think julian assange i

mr. nunberg. we're not done yet. adam schiff says he needs to interview nunberg. he wants to explore the claim that the president may have known about the 2016 trump tower meeting, but republican mike n conaway indicated the probe could wrap up soon with no plans to question nunberg. >>> the tariffs facing backlash from aides and including speaker paul ryan. trump has no plans to back down. he wants tariffs on steel and aluminum imports. canadian prime minister wants trump it will hurt nafta negotiations. he called trump on monday. he made a case for canadian ex exempti exemption. that is how trade wars begin. the president told reporters he is not worried. >> i don't think so. i don't think you will have a trade war. >> remember a few days ago he said a trade war is good and you can win it. paul ryan and others disagree. his spokeswoman said he is worried about the consequences of a trade war and urging the white house to not advance that plan. gary cohn sets up meetings with carmakers. this could cost both companies $1 billion per year. each company. look at the

mr. nunberg is trying to protect someone or maybe he's got something to hide himself. it could be all of those things. >> in terms of the investigations into russian meddling, you're right, we don't know as much as the mueller investigation as we do about the house intel committee investigation. i know you're not on that committee. but it sounds like they are really deadlocked in a kind of partisan way, that the republicans are saying it's time to wrap this up, we're done, and the democrats are saying, whoa, time out. we have lots more people that we want to interview and get much more information. what do you think is going to happen on that end? >> as far as the house investigation on russia, it's gone off the rails very early on. the senate has had a much more constructive approach on the russia investigation, but at the end of the day, it really matters what director mueller says. that's the real criminal investigation. i'm not holding out a lot of hope that house intelligence committee is going to come up with a bipartisan report under any circumstances. i think w

if true, nunberg says he thinks mr. trump was aware during the campaign of the trump tower meetings with russians and don junior. >> the president said he knew nothing about the meeting. do you think that is true? >> no. >> you don't think that is true? >> no. jake, i watched your news reports. you know it's not true. he talked about it for a week before and i don't know why he did this. all he had to say was yeah, we met with the russians. russians offered us something and we thought they had something and that was it. i don't know why he went around trying to hide it. he shouldn't have. >> both president trump and don junior denied anything about the meeting. nunberg says he believes trump may very well have done something with the russians during the election. he singles out former adviser carter page. >> do you think i would communicate with carter page? carter page is a scum bag. >> the answer is no. >> the answer is no. carter page was colluding with the russians. >> carter page was colluding with the russians? >>

mr. nunberg. he finally reversed course, telling my colleague katie tur he would, in fact, cooperate. nbc's katie tur is here with me. you know her from the 2:00 p.m. and ari melbur, host of "the beat" on msnbc which covers politics and hip-hop music. holy cow, i mean, i'm sorry for my children, i don't know who put you to bed, i don't know who helped you with your homework. i don't know who fed you last night. because, boy, i watched you two all day. i mean, this thing was insane. walk us through who sam nunberg is. >> he walked for trump as an political strategist for years to the lead-up to donald trump announcing he was going to run for president in 2016. he was his scheduler, his handler. he told him what to say, where to go, who to try and woo in the republican party. he was there as they were trying to decide what policy donald trump would put forth. >> he came up with build the wall, right? >> he says he came up with build the wall. he came up with the immigration plan. he told donald trump to hit that hard in the republican primary. he also knows about why or knows at least t

mr. nunberg. a lot was discussed. we'll be reporting next week what we learn about it. beat." i hope you have a great weekend. "hardball" is next. >> big deal. let's play "hardball." >>> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. it's been a dizzying 24 hours for the white house with developments on multiple fronts. first, the story of the president and the porn star. president trump's personal lawyer used his trump organization e-mail days before the 2016 election to arrange to pay the adult film star, stormy daniels. then there is the curious case of former trump aide

>> i don't know. >> folks, nunberg was fired by the president and he says he's not a fan of mr. trump. he was not threatening to defy the special counsel out of allegiance to the white house, he was considering risking jail time to protect roger stone. >> this is so ridiculous. i'm not going to give them every e-mail i had with steve bannon and roger stone. i communicated with them every day. i'm not going to testify against roger. roger did not do anything. roger was treated terribly by donald trump. >> and he's one of donald trump's oldest advisers. >> yeah, but trump is the most disloyal person you're ever going to meet. they definitely had -- they definitely had roger stone's. mails. they asked me questions about roger stone's e-mail -- they asked you questions about roger and me that they would only have had roger's e-mails. i'm worried that they're trying to make a case against roger, that they're maneuvering -- >> and what would that case be built on? >> i have no idea. i have no idea. >> would it relate to wikileaks? >> i can tell you once again -- >> would it relate to

mr. nunberg today is him saying he has, quote, no interest in providing these records to mr. mueller. jeff can attest, all of the subpoenas i obtained and served, never saw a line that took into consideration the interest of the person being subpoenaed. >> how do you think mueller will respond, you used to work at the fbi. how does a special prosecutor like robert mueller respond to public statements from sam nunberg? >> after he stops shaking his head, i think his team will get to work, continue what they have been doing. as this person continues to talk, they learn more. as we sit here today, and we don't know what will happen friday, whether he ultimately shows orn not, but here or new york, there are salty marshals googling his address and working up an arrest plan. >> what do you think, jeff? >> i think they'll try to dial it back, call his lawyer, say you know he has no right to do this, you know this is not in his interest. talk to your client. get him in grand jury. we don't want a spectacle. but at the end of the day, you can't defy grand jury subpoena. maybe they'll give him

mr. nunberg. we know a lot was discuss, because that's a lot of people's time.reporting next week on what we learned. be sure to >> if the 13 russian nationals plus three russian companies did, in fact, interfere in our elections, is that okay with you? >> i don't care. i couldn't care less. >> reporter: american democracy -- under attack. tonight, megyn's kelly's no-holds-barred interview with vladimir putin. >> why would you allow an attack like this on the united states? >> why have you decided the russian authorities gave anybody permission to do this? >> this is some sort of nonsense. >> come on -- >> nyet. >> come on -- >> this is all a smokescreen. none of this could or would have happened without the direct authority of the man who sits in the kremlin.

mr. nunberg. gloria, when erin burnett has to lean across the desk and tell sam nunberg she smells alcohol on his breath, even by the standards of the cable news political coverage, that is rare if not unprecedented. again, i got to ask you what is going on? >> well, it's very difficult, and i think it's very sad. i mean a bunch of us at cnn had trump world after these interviews started. i heard from a couple people after i had interviewed him that, in fact, we ought to be careful, that he wasn't well and that he was fragile and that he -- you know, he is somebody who has some problems with alcohol or whatever. and so, you know, the question is, you know, you heard him answer it there, and he denied it. and so i guess, you know, you have to move on because what he was saying was clearly not helpful to the people who are trump partisans. and let me give you a little bit of background here. he got fired by donald trump, and he does not like corey lewandowski. >> why was he fired? >> he was fired bec

mr. nunberg and i were discussing earlier can lead to jail. >> i'm not going to jail. come on. you think i'm going to jail? >> what is this, judgment by nunberg? how does this guy -- he is a little bit like carter page. they all seem a little screwy. they don't seem like the normal professionals you deal with in washington. they admit that their best friends and the hero of their life is a liar, can lie, but not give away his other guy? it's mob talk. >> so fast forward into the trial. robert mueller, if anyone actually goes to trial, he is going to have a hard time with witnesses because all of his witnesses so far have either plead guilty to lying or they're kind of crazy like carter page and nunberg. mr. nunberg, if your lawyer is listening, your lawyer needs to call you and talk to you. because no lawyer wants to see a client self-destruct like this. he is so going to jail. what you do as a prosecutor, a guy doesn't show up or says he is not going to talk you ask the united states marshall, first you have to and hold him into contempt. the marshal marches him off to the peni

>> reporter: mueller's team has subpoenaed all communications nunberg had with ten different individuals, including mr. trump. nunberg later signaling he may be open to talk. >> maybe i'll give them my e-mail password. what do i have to go -- >> then you're going to comply. >> then i would comply, yes. >> so now you're saying you might comply. >> i have no problem complying in itself. what i'm not going to do is sit, erin, for 15 hours. >> reporter: nunberg says he's already spoken with mueller's team once, making a series of explosive claims about the investigation. >> trump may have very well done something during the elections with the russians. they know something on him. jake, i don't know what it is. perhaps i'm wrong. but he did something. >> reporter: at other times nunberg insisting the trump campaign did not collude with the russians. >> the idea that we were the man dhur yan candidate, gloria, we were a joke. everybody was laughing at us. the idea that we were colluding with the russians, give me a break. >> reporter: nunberg making this unub stan sheuated claim don j and russians promising

mr. nunberg is disclosing.al mistake to read all of this as a will he or won't he story about mr. nunberg's cooperation with the special counsel. that is not what gives it such journalistic heat. what gives it so much heat is how much he's disclosing, regardless of what he later does. as june just mentioned, he is basically saying that he has this belief that they're setting up a case, his words, against roger stone. mr. stone is a very long-term sophisticated operator. he was once deposed by nick ackerman in the original watergate special prosecution force and roger has maneuvered his way through many a scandal, as you know, joe and willie. so this is a the person who in conjunction with sam nunberg, this is a person who seems to be benefiting potentially from this very odd chain of events, which raises the question of whether this is ultimately what some witnesses, including potentially mr. stone want. i will mention in fairness, he did put out a ters statement last night reiterating his denial of any false c

mr. nunberg, how do you feel about coming before the grand jury today? n a media tear earlier this week, nunberg suggested wrong doing by his former boss president trump. >> i think he may have done something during the election, but i don't know that for sure. >> why do you think that? >> i can't explain it unless you were in there. >> reporter: nunberg caps a week of campaign -- capitol hill at nearly the same time, manafort's predecessor, cory lewandowski talks with fell lore investigator. >> i just spent 12 hours of my life i'll never get back, there was no collusion, no obstruction. that's a fact. >> reporter: former fbi director james comey's firing and trump's alleged consideration of firing robert mueller. >> the witnesses don't get to pick and choose when it comes to very violent testimony to our investigations. >> that comment from a top democrat on the house intelligence committee, representative adam schiff also wants additional witnesses to affirm the testimony. on whether or not there was an effort to set up a back channel between trump and

mr. nunberg is a careful work they are doing. >> don, can i say one thing?ncumbent and maybe because i am a female. sam also said some horrible things of sarah sanders. i think we should -- people may feel sorry for him or maybe he's drunk. i am no fan of sarah sanders, it is incumbent at us to be outraged at that as well. i just wanted to say that because it is horrible things that julianni should be saying that. >> i did not bring it because i thought it is out of bound. >> it is outrages. >> real quick. >> the one thing you have to keep in mind about this man, nunberg, his opinions matter not at all. it is only the facts that under line, the basis of those opinions of what of interest to mueller. what matters of what bannon thinks is irrelevant. >> thank you, all. >> what the trump's administration is doing now that could be in violation of the law. at&t gives you more for your thing. your getting serious thing. that moving out of the friend zone, moving in together and getting two of everything thing. those fur babies preparing you for real babies thing.

mr. nunberg. he's a guy he's about half the age of donald trump.ho was briefly involved in the campaign. has now had a subpoena and decided he's not going to play along. >> he's a guy in town here in new york. he's got a law degree. he practiceses as an attorney. he happens to be a friend of mine. we're not very close. i thought about calling him today. literally thought, if i call him who knows if i get sucked in this bob mueller pool. it's getting bigger and bigger. >> he's got a point here. i regard federal justice a racket. they convict 97% of the people. they're saying to you, roll over for us or we're going to destroy your life. this guy is looking at 120 years in jail or he'll be sleeping in a dumpster. there's something actually admiral telling mueller to stuff it. >> i do believe you're subpoena, you should show up. that's part of the justice system. when you talk about a 97% conviction rate, that's not a nicely balanced scale of justice. another is, these folks who get brought in for discussions to the capitol hill for hearings they bring

mr. nunberg has light to shed on what the president knew before that trump tower meeting. we would be interested in finding out. >> let's discuss all of this and more. crystal still with us as well as legal analyst laura coates and legal analyst april ryan. april, what's your biggest takeaway from those rather strange interviews he gave on cnn, msnbc, elsewhere? >> strange is a calm word. it was erratic. you would have to really wonder about his mental state at the time. and being a lawyer, number one, and understanding there was a 3:00 deadline, and he missed the deadline yesterday to respond. >> to hand over documents. >> yes. and he's on tv talking to erin burnett, and erin burnett thinks that she smells something on his breath and he talks about the drugs he's taking. it was erratic. but what it leads -- and i believe the biggest piece of this is there is this big puzzle that they're trying to find pieces to and put in this puzzle, and one of those pieces of the puzzle happens to deal with roger stone. and this is a man who looks at roger stone as a father who is conne

mr. nunberg. keep in mind this, is ratings catnip.the fact that he was saying what he is saying in apparently the state that he was in. so you can understand why various producers wanted to put mr. nunberg on the air to make claims against president trump. connell: and idea or do you have any perspective to add on the idea if he is, does have issues and he is seeking treatment, would that impact the special counsel's investigation, potential testimony before a grand jury? >> well, absolutely. you want to have a credible witness, if indeed this person is going to be used by special counsel robert mueller as a witness. so that's the reason why i believe he was also requesting all of these various documents including emails, given the fact he is not that credible, based upon what we saw yesterday on various cable outlets. he is not a witness that you want to sort of go to the mat on. he is troubled. connell: that is good question for chris as well, former fbi assistant director. how credible is sam nunberg after yesterday as a grand jury

mr. nunberg, it did speak directly to the russia investigation that we're watching playing out. it prompted a round of interviews by roger stone today. but looking back on the last 24 hours, what just happened, do you think? >> it's a painful moment on a personal level for sam nunberg. someone who was left out of the trump campaign, right when it was catching fire in 2015, and recriminations ever since then, working with roger stone and others. outside of the bubble, the bubble that eventually took over the white house. it's nagged at nunberg, and he was part of that inception period in 2014-2015. now he's just part of this washington trumpland spectacle when it comes to this russian investigation. now saying he's going to work with them and cooperate. >> at the heart of the story as we all tried hard to point out yesterday, is a man's life and livelihood here. >> jonathan tonight's development, something you didn't hear a lot of during the obama years, a porn star is suing the president. let me correct that, in the history of the republic, we have not heard of a porn star suing

mr. nunberg is probably waking up with a tv hangover this morning after his multitude of interviews on airthat is for sure. >>> still ahead, it is election day in texas. we'll go live to the lonestar state as voters head to the poles in the first primary of this election season. >>> and we're tracking a cross-country winter storm that could track the east coast as another nor'easter. we'll have the latest on the forecast, coming up next. models can be simulated... nothing compares to the real thing. experience the command performance sales event for yourself, now through april 2. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. why is dark magic so spell-bindingly good? it's a bold blend of coffee with rich flavors of uganda, sumatra, colombia and other parts of south america. like these mountains, each amazing on their own. but together? magical. all, for a smoother tasting cup of coffee. green mountain coffee roasters. nahelps protect eyes fromue damaging blue light, filtering it out to help you continue enjoying your screens. or... you could just put your phones down and talk to each other. [la

mr. nunberg.e's about half the age of donald trump who was briefly involved in the campaign. and has now had a subpoena and has decided he's not going to play along. >> well, just so you know, it's nunberg as in catholic nun, not "noon-berg" like high noon. it's all so confusing. he's a guy in town here in new york. he's got a law degree. he practices as an attorney. he happens to be a friend of mine. we're not very close. but i would describe sam nunberg as a friend of mine.e. >> mark: so you're next for the big subpoena. >> well, i thought about calling him today. literally thought, if i call him who knows if i will get sucked in this bob mueller whirlpool. it's getting bigger and bigger. >> mark: he's got a point here. i regard federal justice as essentially a racket. they convict 97% of the people they drag into court, which is a percentage saddam hussein and kim jong un would envy. they're saying to you, roll over for us or we're going to destroy your life. this guy is either looking at 120 y

mr. nunberg, we know these answer.ed to the grand jury, they are just trying to get the information and straight facts. one of the reasons i would say this was not a witch hunt for my participation is they never asked me in the grand jury, what is your opinion, what do you think? >> they just want facts. >> so you don't believe it is a witch hunt against the president. >> i don't because i don't think rosenstein has any choice once they used the memo as a rationale to fire comey. but then, and he was so illserved by his staffed, he had the russians in the oval office. >> obviously every attorney last week was saying, you have to appear before the grand jury and you said you weren't going to. why did you decide to. >> that was something nobody figured out. i got two subpoenas. i was always going to appear. this process was emotional for me. you know, i have clients, i have things i have to do. so i think that was the issue there. but at the end, i to the best of my abilities i fully cooperated. >> are you glad you did?

mr. nunberg to get a full understanding of what he knows. >> he left the campaign in late summer 2015. very early in the campaign. why do you believe the special counsel even wants to talk to him? how useful is he really? >> well, i suspect he was very involved at the launching of the campaign around that time. it sounds like he's close to people who were knee deep in the campaign. roger stone who has been a confidante for decades. and steve bannon who headed up breitbart and then became campaign manager. so it is not just what he heard directly. what they play told him and he can get to special counsel. today the president tweeted this. why did the obama administration start an investigation into the trump campaign with zero proof? wanted to discredit so crooked h would win. unprecedented. bigger than watergate. plus, obama did nothing about russian meddling. how do you respond to those allegations in that tweet? >> well, let me take last part first. sxroeb the administration went to mitch mcconnell and paul ryan. they said if do you that, we're going to say that you're putting your f

mr. nunberg is not having a melt down. the unfortunate thing is, there might be legitimate grounds that he could have for refusing to obey a subpoena. you can't say i'm not going to show up because i don't feel like it. >> harris: what would the legitimate grounds be for him to say no to the mueller investigation? >> he could claim a fifth amendment against self-incrimination. he could claim that the special investigator's request is too broad and burdensome. you can try what is called quash a subpoena, if it intrudes in your privacy too far. you can go to court. the thing that obscures the most blockbuster claim he could have made, muler is going beyond the original jurisdiction of his manda mandate, that he's not there to investigate every nook and cranny of the trump campaign to find everything illegal. he has to limit himself to crimes that were committed by the trump campaign or the administration with his dealings with russia. he can't run a fishing expedition. >> harris: you know, john, i don't know if you could hea

mr. nunberg misunderstood that as a joke, you're telling me tonight, and this is new, that you were embeddedhim, he talked repeatedly about trying to meet with assange, to the degree that you made real plans to potentially go to london if it panned out. so you didn't think it was a joke. >> we were certainly prepared, the idea of roger meeting with assange was not ludicrous, but we never saw that come to pass. and as you said, roger has been involved in some of the most nefarious schemes that have had a very negative effect on our country in the last 30 years, but he has also served up embellishment on things he did not do. >> that's a point that we discussed here, we care about what really happened and the truth, if he exaggerated falsely and looked bad but it was exaggeration, we want to get to the bottom of that. let me play something that he said that is on tape that is featured in your film, which continues to generate so much interest, during the campaign where he did claim contact with assange. >> it i actually have communicated with assange, i believe the next dump will pertain to th

mr. nunberg here. the fact that he talked to team mueller before might even lead to a finding that he waived any fifth amendment privilege. he probably can't stop the bus from moving forward on the fifth amendment. if he chose to fight it and it was a roller coaster yesterday, but if he chose to fight it saying i'm not going to testify about anything, then he would be dragged before a grand jury judge, a judge who is responsible or the grand your proceedings, warned that he could end up in jail for not cooperating and asserting a valid privilege. and they he could be locked up like judy miller was for not showing a source years ago. >> dana: i remember that well. >> like in law school, they say you hold the key to your own cell. it's a corrective measure, not punitive. you can let yourself out by cooperating and going in front of the grand jury and asking the question. >> dana: i'll switch topics with you. there's going to be potentially another call for a special counsel looking at the fisa process an

mr. nunberg does decide he'll ignore the subpoena it's a serious matter and he may end up getting arrestedr than later if he chooses to defy the subpoena. the only thing i'd say to watch for, whatever you thing of sam nunberg himself, if somebody gets arrested resisting mueller and his subpoenas that, who knows what that will kick off among others involved in this story. watch this space. you built your home again. my dna showed that i'm native american, and connected me to cousins who taught me about our tribe. my name is joseph reece, and this is my ancestrydna story. now with 10 million new family connections made every day. order your kit at ancestrydna.com ♪ ♪ there are two types of people in the world. those who fear the future... and those who embrace it. the future is for the unafraid. ♪ ♪ the he gets the best deal onid. the perfect hotel by using. tripadvisor! that's because tripadvisor lets you start your trip on the right foot... by comparing prices from over 200 booking sites to find the right hotel for you at the lowest price. saving you up to 30%! you'll be bathing in savings

mr. nunberg does not want to reveal the questions and answers.trying not to undermine the investigation and the integrity of it. but it could be broader in the sense of making payments to others that could be part of a scheme to obstruct justice. >> that dove tails with another news item reported by bloomberg, which is an obstruction piece on the side comes later if at all. your view of that when we hear that maybe they've found what they need on obstruction, whatever that may be. we don't prejudge. but they hold it in abeyance, your understanding of that. >> that actually makes a lot of sense to my. if y -- me. it might be useful to give context to that charge, to complete the investigation into obstruction of what exactly. because i think it's a much more compelling argument for an injury or congress or hovwhoeve the fact finder is in the end to know what the stakes are. was there obstruction of something very minor like hush money for women or something that goes to the heart of our democracy, like working with russians to affect the outcome o

mr. nunberg has light to shed on what the president knew before that trump tower meeting we would be interested in finding out. >> reporter: that meeting promised but produced nothing on rival hillary clinton. nunberg at one point almost sparing the special counsel to go after him, saying he thought it would be funny if he were arrested for defying that subpoena. scott and laura. >> tracie spots with the latest from washington. >>> at 6:08 a follow-up for you now. san jose leaders are reportedly eliminated one proposed location for a group of so-called tiny homes. initially there were three locations being considered. each would provide up to 40 homes for the homeless. the mercury news reports the plot near hellyer and silicon valley road is no longer under consideration. that site 2 on this map. that's because the land is restricted for park use only. city leaders say a replacement site will not be considered. >>> happening today a meeting on the future of caltrain tracks through the city of palo alto. tonight's meeting comes in the wake of recent findings that the cost to send caltrain tracks

mr. nunberg. a lot was discussed. we'll be reporting next week what we learn about it. that does it for "the beat." i hope you have a great weekend. "hardball" is next. >> big deal. let's play "hardball." >>> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. it's been a dizzying 24 hours for the white house with developments on multiple fronts. first, the story of the president and the porn star. president trump's personal lawyer used his trump organization e-mail days before the 2016 election to arrange to pay the adult film star, stormy daniels. then there is the curious case of former trump aide sam nunberg. earlier in the week, he stormed cable news to say he would not cooperate with robert mueller's investigation despite a subpoena. well, today, cameras were rolling as he did arrive at the federal courthouse in washington prepared to talk to a grand jury. and finally, the dramatic announcement last night president trump had agreed to meet with north korea's kim jong-un within months hours after his own secretary of state told reporters we're a long way from negotiati

mr. nunberg, we know all these answers.at to the grand jury where whatever they're asking me, there's trying to get this information and straight facts. one of the reasons i would say this was not a witch hunt for my participation is they never asked me in the grand jury, here's what i can say, what is your opinion? what do you think? they just want what i know directly. >> you don't believe this is a witch hunt against the president? >> i don't believe it's a witch hunt because i don't believe rosenstein had any choice once they used the rosenstein memo as the rationale to fire comey. the president was so ill served by his staff, he had the russians in the oval office. what was rosenstein supposed to do? >> why did you -- i mean obviously every attorney last week was saying, look, you have to appear before the grand jury. >> right. >> why did you decide to? >> that was something nobody figured out, and i can tell you this. i got two subpoenas. i was always going to appear in front of the grand jury. the issue was whether o

mr. nunberg has said about, you know, he believes donald trump knew about the donald trump jr. looking for dirt on hillary clinton, he mean he has no evidence of that, and he was not, you know, part of the campaign at the time. he had been fired long since. do you put any credibility in some of the things he said, robby? >> well, we don't know. where i think he matters a lot -- and your introductory segment just talked about this -- is that he's very close to roger stone. this is roger stone's mini me, and we know that stone was talking very frequently with donald trump. we also know that stone was the one who was talking directly to wikileaks. was talking directly to goose fer 2. i think he potentially has this link between donald trump and the russians. i'm not saying it's there, but if roger stone was that bridge, i think he's the one who knows about it. this is classic roger stone. you just said in your segment, you know, performance art. make a show. boy, did he make a show today. so we're talking about his behavior and not the information he may have, again, about the bri

mr. nunberg has light to shed on what the president knew before that trump tower meeting, we would be interested in finding out. >> reporter: that meeting promised but produced nothing on rival hillary clinton. tracie potts, nbc news, washington. >>> this is simply a tragic story to report near lake tahoe this morning. a san francisco woman and her young son were killed after they were buried in three feet of snow. the alpine county sheriff's department says olga and her seven-year-old son were hit with a chunk of snow that fell from the roof of their vacation condo near kirkwood on sunday. rescuers searched for hours to find them and a neighbor eventually spotted ski gloves next to the condo and called police. they are the third and fourth skiers to die at california resorts since a major snowstorm late last week. >>> a developing story a huge break in a cold case in the east bay. fremont police announced the arrest of david misch in a 30-year-old double murder case. believe police he killed michelle xavier and jennifer duey back in 1986. those murders left people in fremont living in fear for

mr. nunberg's communications with variety of individuals all on the campaign. >> so his statement right therelly says he guesses that perhaps trump neknew. so it's unclear based on that and other interviews that he actually has personal knowledge of. >> right. >> his communications on the other hands, the documents that the special counsel's office was trying to get would show direct communications with others who may have been more in a position of access. >> and what do you make, richard, because you said the special counsel should be talking to both nunberg and mueller, so already talked to nunberg, right, fbi vet ors have. and now nunberg will appear before the grand jury on friday. he says i have not received a subpoena nor request for interview. does that appear mace you, mueller doesn't asked investigators to moo et with him? >> bob mueller knows what least getting. he'll get to roger stone. both of these guys are a bunch of sleez balls they'll probably try to lie. they'll be under oath and bob mueller will talk to them on due course on his own schedule. but these guys have a reputatio

mr. nunberg for a while now. what was -- was he drunk? was he off his meds? what was that? >> he was on the phone with me so i have no idea. he is a boisterous person. he is an inflammatory person. he -- there's some kids that like the cold pricklies and the warm fuzzies. they like all attention, no matter what it is. sam is one of those people. he'll say things in conversations that you know are just out there and you kind of lean to the side and follow the other crumbs he gives you. nothing he says can be used generally as a primary source. he needs to be backed up. but he is somebody -- this is just the cold hard truth, he is somebody that knows a lot of things and hear'ss a lot of this and will lead reporters in a direction or two that ultimately will come out very fruitful. somebody who is still connected to that world. why he decided yesterday to suddenly say he was going to rip up the subpoena and defy it, i'm not entirely sure. i'm not in his head. i can tell you sunday night when i was talking to him about the subpoena, he gave no indication that he wouldn't comply

mr. mueller, sam nunberg, who appeared on just about every television news program there was, whether itas network or cable at various points. some people calling it into question whether he was actually drunk. i'm wondering if this is the kind of witness that mr. mueller is relying on in his investigation, what does that say about the investigation? >> well, first of all, part of what i saw, it came across as bizarre and i think it seriously undermines his credibility as a witness and i would hope that, as the mueller and his team are going forward, that they're going to take this into account. you know, you've got people that have been claiming this russian collusion since the day of the election, yet, i haven't seen any indication that there's solid evidence to back that up, and i'm hoping that the mueller team will wrap this up fairly quickly. i think there are other issues that we need to get into. david: when i heard the phrase solid information, i don't think that sam nunberg, there's nothing solid about the guy. it's sort of like using the trump dossier for a fisa warrant. it's t

mr. sam nunberg as well as roger stone, witnesses speaking out on tv all week, give us your take from the white house. >> well, and then you also had cory lewandowski on capitol hill, today the former campaign manager for donald trump. so a number of converging story lines here on russia and on mueller. the white house today not talking about any of these things, but if you look to the former white house press secretary sean spicer who was on television today, and potentially that gives you a -- there's nothing wrong with president trump asking, and that's not what he's asserting, but if he did ask white house officials what they discussed with mueller, there wouldn't be anything wrong with them, how it went, if they were nice to them, not at that point obstructing justice in any way. >> i can see giving it the most benign reading, but the times article says, trump said i didn't really try to get mueller fired and the reporting is that he did. >> and that is something that special counsel is supposedly looking at as well. and then again, moving on to cory lewandowski on capitol hill today