rusty bowers, the significance? >> this is a big deal. let's remember, there has been so much focus on the state of georgia. however, this was really a cord natured acseven state strategy. the state so closely contested was arizona. and we know that the feds are looking not just at georgia but also at least at arizona. big news from last night is that rusty bowers, former arizona house speaker, a long time republican who actually supported donald trump in 2020, we learned last night that he has been interviewed by the fbi in the special counsel investigation for foyer ur hour. that is a huge deal. and he said he was asked about donald trump, rudy giuliani, john eastman. but flashback to almost a year ago today when rusty bowers testified in front of the house january 6 committee. let's listen to what he said. >> at some point did one of them make a comment that they didn't have evidence but they had a lot of theories? >> that was mr. giuliani. he said we've got a lot of theories but we don't have the evidence. and i don't know if that was

and rusty bowers joins me now. as you are looking at this and we are learning about the subpoena to the secretary of state's office, what does it say to you about the state of this investigation? well, that it keeps going. and, you know, it appears that a justice, whatever that means on any given issue in america grinds on. and it has taken a while but it just seems to keep going. and ultimately i hope that all concerned have their time before justice. and i don't wish anybody any ill. but justice grounds on. >> have their time before justice. i, mean we are hearing about trump also pressuring the governor of your state at the time. you also got a call from trump around that time pressuring you directly. had you ever heard about this call with trump and governor doocy? what do you make of how wide-ranging the pressure campaign was in your home state? >> well governor doocy is not a pushover. and he is very focused on his job. he always was. we saw differently on issues. but he was always very focused. and what he w

the rusty bowers revelation is 12 hours old.ut i can't conceive of a witness list that would include only rusty bowers but not the governor. >> especially because we had reporting that there is another tape of trump trying to pressure former governor ducey. and that is what he is saying, how have i not been interviewed yet. but arizona was a major front in this overall effort to overturn the election based on bogus evidence. >> remind people why they would want to talk to governor ducey so much. famous silencing of the phone call as he is certifying the results of a biden win in arizona. >> you remember that moment, governor coulducey is certifyine win. the president is calling and he sort of ignores it. as there is the infamous tape of the president calling raffensperger, there is apparently another tape according to "washington post" reporting of trump doing much of the same thing to governor ducey, trying to influence him to find more votes. remember the margin being just 10,000 votes. and when the bogus audit occur this had

i'm not surprised that jack smith and his team have gone to rusty bowers.that part of the story has been evident. he's just trying to get it on the record in front of his garage. >> it's interesting to put this on the timeline. we are learning about this now, but this happened before rudy giuliani's voluntary interview. so why do you -- he told kaitlan collins this was about three months ago. if rusty bowers was in three months ago and brad raffensperger was in three weeks ago and rudy giuliani met with prosecutors, what do you think rudy giuliani's current state of exposure is? >> rudy giuliani ex-pocher from the beginning. he was directly soliciting the submission of these fake electors and continuing to make these public statements with no basis in fact or law. that's why he's -- his license to practice law has been removed. i don't know if he's continuing to stick to that when he goes in front of the grand jury. he did stick to that when he testified before the select committee. or whether or not he has changed his tune and worked out a deal with the sp

we [laughter] rusty bowers thank you so much for your time tonight. >> you bet, thank you. >> coming up, he's the man charged alongside donald trump in the classified document prosecution. so who is walt nato? and who did he fall into the same trap as so many before him? and i so far trump has been indicted two times this year. how republican voters responding? and there were some who egged them on, and some who should've stopped it and didn't. doesn't that tell us something about leadership? we -- and if every american were just when you're brushing your teeth, look in the mirror and say, if there were 340 million other people just like me, would it be a peaceful country? would it be a better country or a worse country? when the critical mass once anger and malice and revenge and they let them rule their thinking, it's a difficult time to consider. >> i think that's a great thought experiment. 340 million of me would be a lot of people talking a lot. maybe it wouldn't make the country better. we [laughter] rusty bowers thank you so much for your time tonight. >> you bet, thank you.

>> tonight, the effort to persuade rank and file republicans the former arizona house speaker rusty bowers on his conversations with the special counsel. then, as the ex president's body man is finally arraigned, how walt nada chose to be a defendant instead of a witness. plus, how two democratic governors used a favor republican mnuchin maneuver to turn their agendas into law and how the wildly successful rollout of the threads social media platform kicked off a billionaire battle for the ages. but >> offered me money. offer me power. i don't care. >> when all in starts, right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. mike pence is in the very first presidential contest state of iowa tonight in the midst of the three-day campaign spectacle. although there's nothing more predictable than a former vice president iran for the white house, mike pence is in a unique position. not only was he number two to the twice impeached twice undated ex president on trump, he is now running against his former boss for the republican nomination. i have to say, mike pence has always struck me as a s

glenn, let's talk about rusty bowers, and just arizona across the board. we are now hearing the special counsel has subpoenaed arizona 's secretary of state's office in the january 6th investigation. washington post reported that donald trump tried to pressure arizona's former governor about the 2020 election. we know the former arizona house speaker, rusty bowers, said he spoke to investigators. what does all of this tell us about how the special counsel's building of the january 6th case? >> you know, symone, it tells us jack smith continues to get after the fake electors scheme, as well he should. if we take a step back, and we think about the fact that there were seven states, seven battleground states, where these fake electors all sprung up. is there anybody who really believes these seven battleground states spontaneously and coincidentally all came up with the same fake elector, fraudulent scheme? this has always felt like a washington, d. c., top-down orchestration created by the donald trumps and john eastmans, and rudy giulianis to try and help

>> so rusty bowers indicated that he has interviewed with authorities, and it just shows again how wide this separate investigation which is being run out of a grand jury here in d.c. really is because they really are focused on those fake electors, and you know, we spotted just a couple of weeks ago, some of the fake electors at the grand jury. this is clearly a really wide ranging investigation that's talked to a lot of people, and i think it's something that certainly the people in trump's circumstance really concerned about going forward. arizona is another one of those states where there is a lot of focus on representing that, you know, there are trump electors who weren't legitimate and essentially trying to overturn the election. while we refer to this as the january 6th grand jury, it has a much longer range of activity that they're looking at. it's really about the peaceful transfer of power, which is one of the assignments that is interrupting the peaceful transfer of the power, one of the assignments we saw coming out of jack smith, the assignment he was given by the directiv

for rusty bowers, the truth is that donald trump tried to destroy the constitution of the united states one of the most interesting conversations i've had a long time. >> stephen: jonathan, thank you so much for being here. >> jonathan: thank you. >> stephen: the book "betrayal" is available now. it's jonathan karl, everybody. we'll be right back with bj novak. toto help prototect from h h. i prep witithout pillsl. with apretetude, a prerescripn medicinene used to r reduce the risksk of hiv without dadaily prep p pill. wiwith one shohot every ototr montnth, just 6 6 times a ye. in studieses, apretudede was provoven superioior to a a daily prerep pill inin reducing g the risk o of. yoyou must be e hiv negatite toto receive a apretude and get tetested before e each injectction. if youou think youou were exposesed to hiv oror have flu-u-like symptpt, tellll your doctctor right a. apreretude does s not prevt other sexuxually tranansmitted ininfectio. prpractice safafer sex toto reduce yoyour risk. don't takeke apretudee if youou're allergrgic tt or taking g certain memedici, as thehey may i

. >> jack smith and his team are looking at rusty bowers as a witness. >>> this lab test has shown it is positive for cocaine. >> the working theory is it was likely a visitor. are you confident that it was not a white house staffer? >> the investigations will get to the bottom of this. >> these boxes obviously contain signatures of real -- >> they are trying to sneak an election in august when people are on vacation, when they are getting ready to school, when you are not used to voting and they are doing that on purpose. >>> we begin with breaking news. alexander lukashenko says yevgeny prigozhin is now in st. petersburg, russia. he led his mercenary fighters in a brief rebellion two weeks ago. they seized the russian city of rostov-on-don. >> and they gave up their rebellion after just a few days. he reportedly agreed to exile in belarus. and again the president lukashenko said at a news conference that one of our correspondents matthew chance was at that prigozhin is now in st. petersburg, russia. and matthew noted this contradicted earlier statements. we're still trying to get a

this is something that rusty bowers felt as well. the fact that he did sit down and speak to the special counsel's team, he said about for four hours. -- claimed was evidence of election fraud, which we know was not. it just that it speaks to the fact that arizona has become a focus and he is still bringing in high-profile republicans to talk to them. >> all right. thanks so much. be sure to tune in for the official launch of caitlin's brand-new show, the source with caitlin collin premieres monday at 9:00 p.m. eastern. only here on cnn. congratulations to caitlin. ron desantis is now defending a campaign ad that is making headlines. why is he defending it? that is next . yeah, like me. thanks, bro. take a lap, rookie. real mature. after switching to the farmer's dog we noticed so many improvements in remi's health. his allergies were going away and he just had amazing energy. it looks like nutritious food, and it is. i'm investing in my dog's health and happiness. get started at longlivedogs.com is it possible to protect my business

it would be entirely consistent with what rusty bowers has testified to under oath. it would be consistent with what we know based on the tape recording of brad raffensperger in georgia. so to me, it all seems like a piece. but it's also worth noting that we don't know for sure that the government hasn't already spoken to him about this. >> it could have happened certainly when that dinner took place supposedly according to the reporting and right now. as the investigation by jack smith has certainly accelerated. what about the impact potentially on georgia with the fulton county d.a. has been in contact with leaders in the other states? >> so i understand if i were in georgia even though i was focusing on just what happened in georgia, it would be important to tell the jury we weren't alone, this wasn't an isolated event. that this was part of a plan to have numerous states in so-called swing states to change their vote and to be pressured to do it. so i can understand why bonnie willis would be expanding to that extent. she wouldn't necessarily be expanding to the

this, week former arizona house speaker, rusty bowers, said he spoke with the fbi a few months ago in interview. you may remember he testified during the january six hearings about refusing to caved pressure to overturn arizona's election results. we also learned the jack smith subpoenaed the office of the arizona secretary of state and cnn is reporting that the special counsel is focusing on a heated meeting in the oval office during the final days of the trump administration. that meeting involve discussions of extreme proposals to keep trump in power. including the seizure of voting machines. joining me now, we nbc news and msnbc legal analyst and former federal and state prosecutor in new york. polley, thank you very much for coming to the saturday show. let's start with the infamous december 2020 oval office meeting where rudy giuliani, sydney powell and others were in attendance discussing those proposals to keep trump in power. why is jack smith so focused on that particular meeting? >> good morning, jonathan, well, first, lisa rubin has observed that it was really two meetings

rusty bowers said he met with the fbi over trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. bowers resisted pressure from trump and allies after trump lost arizona in 2020. we have paula reid here in d.c. what happened in the courtroom for walt nauta today. and what comes next? >> reporter: the arraignment was quick. the 40-year-old didn't say a word as he left a federal courthouse here in miami. nauta was finally able to enter a plea in this case after finally scoring a south florida based attorney. his arraignment was postponed twice because he couldn't find a local counsel. now attorney sasha dadan was in court with nauta along with his washington d.c. based attorney. da dan is a rmer public defender with a good amount of experience trying cases in south florida. she has an office in fort pierce and that's where nauta's and former president trump's trial will take place. na-a na-a nauta pleaded not guilty to the charges. prosecutors say he moved z dozens of boxes to other parts of trump's mar-a-lago property and lied about the whole thing. all of this was in an effort to

we know federal prosecutors of spoken recently to former arizona house speaker rusty bowers.broke that news with us last week. but also, georgia's secretary of state brad raffensperger. both of them are republicans. benson herself is a democrat. and secretary benson joins us now. thank you so much for being here. we know from our reporting this interview was in march. were you subpoenaed? how did you end up speaking to investigators? >> we responded earlier to a subpoena and then responded to a request for an interview. we've been very up front and transparent about all that we endured through the 2020 election cycle and have spoken with anyone voluntarily who reaches out to us to ensure accountability for what occurred. >> and how long did this interview with jack smith's team last? >> several hours. it was back in march. and it really underscored, i think, the depth through which the federal prosecutors are looking into everything, and the seriousness with which they're taking what occurred and the quest for justice to ensure it doesn't happen again. >> was jack smith there

rusty bowers giving insight into the conversation that was had.t to take a listen to that and then we'll talk. >> i'm hesitant to talk about any subpoenas, et cetera, but i have been interviewed by the fbi. it was four hours of a discussion that they had with me. they seemed to have a goodgrasp on all of the testimony that i've given. >> how significant is this, phil? >> well, it shows that jack smith's probe into the fake electors scheme and that the broader efforts by trump and his allies to overturn the election results is looking deeply at a number of states. we've known they've been doing this investigative work so far, but we're getting increasing reporting the last few weeks about activity in arizona, both what you saw right there from rusty bowers. my colleagues at "the washington post" reported a few days ago that the former arizona governor, doug ducey came under pressure in his conversations after the election with trump, with trump wanting him to take action as the governor to try to overturn the election results. you've got to imagine

in this case it's the arizona republic and one of those states we know from rusty bowers and others,cey saying trump pressured him to overturn the election. jack smith subpoenaed the secretary of state in may and related to two lawsuits one from trump's campaign and from chairwoman kelly ward that alleged errors and fraud in the presidential results. we don't really know necessarily what that means, but how do you see this fitting into what we can glean from what we do know publicly about what they're looking at? >> well, it said in that article they were looking at documents, in particular showing in connection with those lawsuits communications with the attorneys, with trump's counsel and that's consistent with other public reporting that really trump's lawyer's have been the focus of that january 6th we know we know from public reporting that john eastman's cell phone has been seized pursuant to a search warrant, the same with jeffrey clark, former doj official, again, you need probable cause to get search warrants for individual devices and particular lawyers, so, you know, it se

interests in trump's interactions with arizona election officials, especially two conversations with rusty bowers who was arizona house speaker at the time. bowers is now revealing that he was interviewed by the fbi several months ago about the phone calls. trump's legal entanglements have only compounded sense he left office. most seriously the boxes of classified materials he hoarded at his florida home and even tried to keep hidden from his own lawyers. thursday his co-defendant walt nauta was finally able to enter his plea. cnn's carlos suarez was in the miami courtroom and has our report. >> reporter: walt nauta's arraignment was quick. the 40-year-old did not say a word as he left the federal courthouse here in miami. nauta was finally able to enter a plea after finally hiring a south florida based attorney. his arraignment was postponed twice because he couldn't find a local attorney. attorney now in court with nauta and his washington, d.c. based attorney. the florida attorney has experience trying cases in south florida. she has an office in ft. pierce where nauta and donald trump's tria

so benson joining georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger, joining rusty bowers former top gop official in arizona, as those who have gone into talk to prosecutorses in recent weeks. it remains to be seen exactly when or if a charging decision will come. but we do know this remain as core focus of prosecutors in the special counsel's office. zach cohen, cnn, washington. >>> christopher wray on the hot seat on capitol hill, and he faced a steady stream of attacks from republican members of the house judiciary committee from the role of the fbi, classified documents case, to the recent investigation of hunter biden. wray tried to push back on accusations of partisan bias. sara murray has more. >> reporter: fbi director christopher wray -- >> thank you, good morning. >> reporter: pulling no punches in critiquing former president trump's sloppy retention of classified documents. >> i don't want to be commenting on a pending case, but i will say that there are specific rules about where to store classified information, and that those need to be in a scif, secure compartmentalized in

last night former arizona house speaker rusty bowers, who rejected pressure from donald trump and alliese to kaitlan collins and said this. >> we talked about your call with trump and giuliani. they were both on that phone call. have you been subpoenaed by special counsel? >> i -- that's a great question. i -- i'm hesitant to talk about any subpoenas, et cetera, but i have been interviewed by the fbi. >> in the january 6th investigation? excuse me. in the effort to overturn the election results. >> correct. it was four hours of a discussion that they had with me. >> according to a new report in the "arizona republic," the special counsel sought information on two lawsuits. one from the trump campaign, another from former arizona republican party chair kelli ward that alleged fraud and errors in the election results. and this comes on the heels of reporting that donald trump pressured doug ducey to overturn the results with ducey totaling donor that he was surprised jack smith not called him. >> a dramatic turn of events for the russian mercenary leader accused of launching that rebellion

. >> that was then arizona house speaker rusty bowers, appearing before the january 6 committee laste has spoken to the fbi about efforts to overturn arizona's election results in

>> tonight, the effort to persuade rank and file republicans the former arizona house speaker rusty bowerss conversations with the special counsel. then, as the ex president's body man is finally arraigned, how walt nada chose to be a defendant instead of a witness. plus, how two democratic governors used a favor republican mnuchin maneuver to turn their agendas into law and how the wildly successful rollout of the threads social media platform kicked off a billionaire battle for the ages. but >> offered me money. offer me power. i don't care. >> when all in starts, right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. mike pence is in the very first presidential contest state of iowa tonight in the midst of the three-day campaign spectacle. although there's nothing more predictable than a former vice president iran for the white house, mike pence is in a unique position. not only was he number two to the twice impeached twice undated ex president on trump,

. >> that was then arizona house speaker rusty bowers, appearing before the january 6 committee last year. now he says he has spoken to the fbi about efforts to overturn arizona's election results in 2020. >>> trump's right-hand man, walt nauta, enters a plea to charges he helped trump mishandle classified documents. >>> in the aftermath of the supreme court affirmative action decision, a republican senator warns colleges against admitting too many blacks and latinos. we discuss. >>> elon musk spent $44 billion to buy twitter. what's it worth now? after more than 30 million people have signed up for mark zuckerberg's rival app threads in less than 24 hours. >>> we begin tonight with the third time being the charm for walt nauta, donald trump's co-defendant in the special counsel's classified documents case. he finally faced his arraignment after finding a florida-based criminal attorney. he said, yes, your honor, as he pleaded not guilty to the six charges laid out in last month's indictment, including conspiracy to obstruct justice, withholding a document or record and making false

rusty bowers in arizona.y similar testimony about calls from the president encouraging him to do something for which he had no legal authority. so what you'll see potentially as an indictment in georgia, will be not just indicative of what happened in that state, but a pattern that happened around the country as our work on select committee showed. >> do you think by the way they will try to challenge the admissibility of that audio tape? >> very difficult to do when you have a participant who will authenticate it. is it authentic? you likely have raffensperger as a witness who will say that to me and that's the former president. i don't really see a legal basis to exclude that audio tape. >> and i assume that in georgia, unlike in other jurisdictions, you don't have to have both parties to agree to the audio tape. >> no. absolutely not. all it takes for admissibility is authentication. >> one question is about you know, the two georgia election workers and do they play a part in this? would you expect to see

arizona's former republican house rusty bowers broke the news right here that he had been a peanut by jack smith and we were also the first to hear from michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson after learning she too should -- had been subpoenaed. was there an area they were most focus on? >> again you can look back to the content of what the january 6th committee discussed. took only when it comes to election workers and the impact of the misinformation on our lives and the threats that emerged from that from various sources. >> there is also trump's son-in- law. jared kushner and his former close aide. now among dozens who have testified before the january 6th jen -- grand jury or have been interviewed by several prosecutors. these are just the ones our sources have told us. we do know among them the warmer president mike pence who said this about his former boss. >> i believe whatever his intentions in that moment it endangered me and my family and everyone that was at the capital -- the capital co. that day. as we learned so much in recent weeks about fully held broad the januar

rusty bowers former house snooeshg arizona getting calls from donald trump and rudy giuliani, as wellf the fake electors that they had reached out to. a lot of officials getting inquiries in the criminal investigation that is ongoing. here's more about what jocelyn benson told kaitlan collins last night about what she testified to. >> i think it's a connection between what we witnessed which i've talked about for several years now, a real coordinated strategic effort to block the counting of votes in our state and then spread lies that transnoormds threats against lives of election officials doing our job. >> so this investigation now having information from this top official in the state of michigan about what happened after the election to her and others, but also it's a sprawling investigation and we don't exactly know where it stands right now, jim, but what we dough know is that the grand jury, it is in, again, today and prosecutors from the special counsel's office here at the courthouse behind me. jim? >> of course trump continues on the campaign trail to spread those election

we do know that then-speaker of the house rusty bowers testified before the january 6th select committee about the pressure that he was under. but now perhaps the special counsel's office will maybe reach out to the then-governor doug ducey. >> sounds like someone they probably should reach out to. i would not be surprised if that happens very quickly. let's talk about the political implications of this, because ducey was considered a person that may be a 2024 candidate for the senate in arizona. now here he is clashing with donald trump, and the base still very much with donald trump. so how has this impacted ducey's political future now that he's out of office? >> it's such an important point that you brought up, because the fact that this call and the details of this call were not widely known until now is quite extraordinary. that is because doug ducey did not want it known. doug ducey was feeling an immense amount of pressure not only from the trump administration, but also from republicans, the trump maga base in arizona, to do something. so doug ducey, his term ended. he is no lon

the arizona subpoena comes days after former arizona house speaker rusty bowers revealed he had spokenith the fbi for a couple of hours as part of the investigation. zach cohen joins us with more. what kind of information is the special counsel looking for in this latest subpoena? >> reporter: sara, we're learning that this subpoena, which was received by the arizona secretary of state's office back in may, was seeking information primarily about two lawsuits that were filed in arizona after the 2020 election, one was filed by the trump campaign and the other was filed by the republican party chair in that state, kelly ward. they effectively claim that the 2020 election was tainted by fraud, yet we know there was no evidence to prove that and almost all of the lawsuits immediately failed that were filed by the trump campaign in the aftermath of the 2020 election. take a look to what the arizona secretary of state told erin burnett last night about what he thinks this means about jack smith's investigation and what the special counsel is focused on. >> it was just another one of the ran

or higher level state officials like brad raffensperger the secretary of state of georgia and rusty bowerse trump team to secret service agents to as you said, former vice president mike pence. when you look at it, it appears that jack smith is investigating this case as a expertise to thwart a lawful transfer of power. whether he brings a case against donald trump himself remains to be seen, but remember, there are already four phones seized by federal agents in this case pursuant to warrants including the phone of mr. eastman, a lawyer and close adviser to donald trump who's advising him about the fake elector scheme. we already knew, we've known for months they have a lot of evidence in this case. it now appears it's even more far reaching than people realize. it also seems that it's coming to a head this summer. >> and ken, meanwhile, nbc news exclusively obtained a new book from someone who worked in the trump administration. who is it, and what are they saying? >> that's miles taylor. he worked for the department of homeland security. he's a long-time trump critic. he writes about an

you mentioned, for example, former arizona house speaker rusty bowers who refused to bake that fake electoreme. and brad raffensperger who was asked by trump to find those votes in georgia, smith and his team have heard from dozens of witnesses. and now we wait to see whether they bring an indict as the republican primaries are underway. >> ken dilanian, thank you for that update. >>> up next on "ana cabrera reports," on the hunt. the search for an escaped inmate in pennsylvania said to have survivalist skills. >>> plus, amazon's biggest sale of the year is almost upon us. which deals are really deals? right now get a free footlong at subway. like the subway series menu. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. for freeee. that's what i'm talking about. order in the subway app today. ♪ i gotta good feeling about this, yeah ♪ that's what i'm talking about. ♪ i'm with it ♪ ♪ i gotta good feeling about this ♪ ♪ yeah, ♪ ♪ so let's get it ♪ ♪ i'm feeling good vibes ♪ (burke) a new car loses about ten percent of its value the minute you drive off the lot. or more. that's why farmers new car rep

one of those states that we know from rusty bowers and others, die doocy, the governor recently sayingoverturn election. jack smith has subpoenaed these secretary of state, sought information relates to lawsuits one from trump's campaign another from former arizona republican party -- kelly word alleged terrorism fraud in the 2020 presidential results. we don't really know necessarily what that means. but how do you see this fitting into what we can glean from what we do know publicly about what they are looking at? >> it said in that article that they were looking at documents in particular showing in connection with those lawsuits, communications with the attorneys, with trump's counsel. and that's consistent with other public reporting that really trump's lawyers had been the focus of that january 6th investigation. we know from public reporting that john eastman's cell phone has been seized pursuant to a search warrant, and the same with jeffrey clark, corporate doj official. again, you need probable cause to get search warrants for individuals devices, particularly lawyers. so it

it comes as the former republican house speaker in arizona, rusty bowers, tells cnn he was interviewedfbi about two calls that he had with former president trump after the 2020 election. the other context that's important here is we're also learning the former arizona governor doug ducey also got a call from trump in 2020 pressuring ducey to find fraud that would help trump overturn the election results in the state. joining me now secretary of state adri pgan fontez. you said you've comply today the subpoena from the special counsel. can you tell us what it tells you about smith's investigation. >> the original subpoena received by this office came the end of last year in late december. the next one as you indicated was in may. that went to an outside law firm that had been representing this office seeking some of the same sorts of records from a cup of cases that had been filed here in arizona. the trump campaign versus my predecessors, then secretary hobbs asking for a lot of information out of those cases. really can't get too much into what exactly they're looking for other than t

but they have talked to everyone from jared kushner and hope hicks, to rusty bowers in arizona, and joscelyn benson in michigan. republican speaker of the house there, and the michigan secretary of state. the scope of this is so broad. it's kind of difficult to give or sense the depth of where the charges can come from. because obviously they are asking about trump's mindset. but we also know that they are asking a lot of questions about sydney powell, and john eastman, and kenneth cheeseborough. and rudy giuliani, and the attorneys. that's one question of what they want to know, trump's mindset, but also the efforts and the efforts coming from those who are around him to tell him what to do. >> alyssa, you had joint -- told the jury six committee that the president had told the president. do you think that then president trump knew had lost? >> yes, in the coming days he knew that he had lost. he said it in a number of ways, kelly conway said on the view. she had talked to him and he had knowledge he had lost the race. general milley went on the record that they were talking about second te

the special counsel has talked to so many top ranking election officials, rusty bowers in arizona, bradin michigan, what does this tell us about the scope of this investigation, and does it tell us anything about where this investigation stands in terms of timing? >> well, it certainly would be prudent for the special counsel to talk to election officials in all of the states where we saw these fake electors. there were seven states, michigan is one of them. it wouldn't surprise me to see that the chief election officer, the secretary of state in michigan is someone that they would be interested in hearing from. i imagine that part of her testimony also related to the kinds of treatment they got, you know, jocelyn benson was someone who had armed protesters outside her home after certifying the election, you know, the result of all of the allegations of election fraud that of course were fabricated. so it strikes me that these are essential witnesses, but i don't know that it really tells us anything about where they are in the case. i think the thing that tells us more about where they

it is evident per the testimony of maricopa county officials as well as rusty bowers that there was assure campaign in the state for them to overturn the election results. ducey's cooperation is notable. the second news out of today is in georgia, the secretary of state brad raffensperger, confirming that complied with the subpoena which was at the heart of the propagation of conspiracy theories around the results that came from there. and the two particular there, shay moss, as well as ruby freeman, who the video of rudy giuliani and others suggested were opening up supposed suitcases full of ballots and stuffing them in to benefit joe biden. the state elections board did its own investigation and found nothing to that extent. and the special counsel's office, though, is clearly now seeking much of the same material that the district attorney in fulton county is also seeking as part of their parallel investigation into the efforts of trump and others to overturn the results in georgia. >> vaughn hillyard, thank you for that. >>> now to those disturbing reports from the southern borde

state, she joins her georgia counterpart, brad raffensperger, former arizona republican lawmakerer rusty bowers and two republican officials in talking to jack smith's team. what have you learned about secretary of state benson's interview with jack smith? well, anderson, what is important about this interview is that we now see a pattern of the smith team, the special counsel's team, going through all of the states, it key states that there was this effort by the former president and his allies to try to overturn those elections and try to, perhaps, seat these fake electors. so what we know, sources telling zack cohen, is that she sat with the smith team for several hours in recent weeks and we know that, as you pointed out, they have already talked to state officials in georgia, in nevada, in arizona, so you can see that this is an effort by the special counsel to try to figure out exactly whether there is a crime here that was committed in that effort, not only to overturn those state elections, but also to, perhaps, get access to voting machines. that is one of the things that joselyn benso

on top of the other officials we already know about, arizona former republican house speaker, rusty bowers, broke the news right here he had been subpoenaed by jack smith. we were the first to hear from jocelyn benson, after learning she too had been subpoenaed. >> was there a certain area they seemed the most focused on? >> i think, again, you can look back to the content of a lot of what the congressional january 6th committee discussed, particularly when it comes to election workers, the impact of the misinformation on our lives and the threats that emerged from that from various sources. >>> and then there is also trump's son-in-law, jared kushner, and his former close aide, hope hicks, also adding to the head spinning week of news in the january 6th investigation alone. now among dozens who have testified before the january 6th grand jury or being interviewed by federal prosecutors. these are just the ones our sources have told us about. there could, of course, be many more. we do know among them is the former vice president mike pence who said this about his former boss today. >> i b

election officials who were targeted with violence and threats, people like brad raffensperger rushgs rusty bowers as an investigator of where this stands today? >> i like the scope and breadth of what jack smith is doing. there were reports from another network saying look new mexico, pennsylvania, those officials are under scrutiny now. i like it because it's justice. no one should skate or walk away that had anything to do with trying to it overturn this election. submitting fake lectors. no one gets off the hook. this sets a precedent for free and fair elections. with regard to the focus on intent, look, i'll defer to glenn on the prosecutive importance of this, no question, it could be explosive if they have somebody saying, i was in the room when he said i lost the election. by the way, i'll remind folks, general milley, who testified to the january 6th committee, testified to that effect, that he was in the room, secretary pompeo and one other person, when they were discussing national security issue and trump said something like, yeah, look, let's table that for the next guy. i lost this e

he calls rusty bowers, the republican leader of the legislature.violate their oath to stay in power. the difference in terms of how he treats or reaches out to democratic office holder, lack out outreach, republican office holders, repeated outreach to them, shows the political desire, and to neal's point, he knew it was cheating. he could only get republicans to help. >> let me read some more from this piece that tim and i are talking about. "the new york times" has just dropped a piece of reporting that say this. prosecutors ask witnesses whether trump acknowledged he lost the 2020 race. it starts this way, federal prosecutors investigating former president trump's attempts to overturn the election have questioned jared kushner about whether trump privately acknowledged in the days after the 2020 election that he had lost. the reporting is based on four people briefed on the matter. the line of questioning reports "the new york times" suggests prosecutors are trying to establish if trump was acting with corrupt intent as he sought to remain in po

ralston has something in common with rusty bowers. mr. with every legislator who was asked to do the same thing. it is abundantly clear that because it happened in public view, that there was a multistate campaign. i wonder what your open questions are about how much the d.a. looked at similar efforts in other states. >> i think she absolutely did. let remember, her career was billed on rico cases. we don't know if that's what happened here with the former president but she's already got other high profile cases that she's prosecuting right now. so the idea that she is trying to tie this to a broader, georgia's role as part of trying to perpetuate the big lie and enact the big lie across multiple states including georgia is not out of the question and could be something that she does present to a grand jury to try to persuade them that there was criminal wrongdoing and there was that special time of wrongdoing. i think the other thing i'm curious to see. you brought up the e. jean carroll case. whether talking about that, as the former pr