one is stockton's approach engineering and design.sk manager. everything he did he thought he was doing for the betterment of ocean exploration and safety. in that mischaracterization is the development of the sabbath itself. this was a very robust multitier almost 14 year development program with a lot of different people involved. a lot of different design parameters taken and a lot of testing involved over the years. neil: something obvious is not enough it's blame monday morning quarterback on the street but i quote this david lockridge a former oceangate executive who had warned about method to determine the soundness. it keeps coming back to the whole itself. it could subject passengers to extreme dangers. not enough care was put into that. again this is years after you left i grant you. but such warnings these are not the only ones i mention the marine technology society and others who had said this is dangerous. a number of passengers who opted reading the waivers on this, not me i don't want to do this. what would you make of

stockton rush replied, "i have grown tired of industry players who try to use the safety argument tonew entrants from entering their small existing market. let's go live to the person covering the story from his from boston this evening. carl, great to see you come in so tell us about this exchange between these two people. correspondent: yeah, emails the bbc has seen and there is a long exchange between the ceo of this company that operated the festival -- vessel and an expense deep-sea explorer. you mentioned the back-and-forth but a couple of things stand out, there were lots of concerns brought up one about the carbon fiber used to construct the main part of the chamber, where people actually sit inside the titan, saying this was not an appropriate material to be using for this kind of deep-sea vessel. the other concern was as you mentioned about outside certification saying you know this vessel needs to be certified by someone outside the company. the two went back for him stockton rush essentially dismissed these claims saying that they were baseless. >> this was clearly preven

and stockton where we went down. i believe -- i don't think -- well, i don't remember if stockton was on that trip. we went down. we were -- i was told that we were setting a new depth report for a submersible with more than three people. but we didn't actually get to the titanic. we got down to a point and we were a little off course. the current was sweeping us the wrong direction. what you have to understand, when you're descending, you turn everything off. you're conserving power. you're free falling through this dark freezing world. as you're free falling -- can you hear me? >> neil: yes, i can. go ahead. >> you're free falling in this world where occasionally you'll see these creatures outside in this world of perpetual night. anyway, we realized that we were some distance from the wreck. we decided to put our thrusters on and try to propel ourselves closer as we were descending. when we put the thrusters on, the thruster on one side failed. we had a number of issues. at that point, we had to drop our weights a

rob mccallum warns stockton rush... he went on...ays later, oceangate�*s stockton rush replied... he told rob mccallum... guillermo, the former co—founder of oceangate. .. the next day, rob mccallum replied, in starkest terms, i think you are potentially placing yourself and your clients in a dangerous dynamic. right, let's get more on this right now. our science correspondent jonathan amos is standing by. this is quite a stark exchange of e—mails? it this is quite a stark exchange of e-mails? , ,., , , , e-mails? it is polite but it is very testy. one _ e-mails? it is polite but it is very testy. one has — e-mails? it is polite but it is very testy, one has to _ e-mails? it is polite but it is very testy, one has to say, _ e-mails? it is polite but it is very testy, one has to say, lewis, - e-mails? it is polite but it is very testy, one has to say, lewis, if. e-mails? it is polite but it is very l testy, one has to say, lewis, if you redo the whole exchange. should just describe who rob mccallum is. he is one of the world's leading

the bbc has been exclusively given and email exchange between stockton rush, the ceo of oceangate, whoin the incident, and a leading deepwater exploration specialist. let's take a look. this was on email sent in 2018. he warned a stockton rush, i have given everyone the same advice, which is that until a sub is classed, tested, and proven, it should not be used for commercial deep dive operations. he went on -- as much as i appreciate entrepreneurship and innovation, you are potentially putting an entire industry at risk, so i implore you to take every care in your testing and sea trials, and to be very conservative. days later, stockton rush replied "i have grown tired of industry players who try to use a safety argument to stop innovation and new entrants into the existing market. he told rob mccammon, since the form co-founder and i started oceangate, we have heard the baseless cries of "you are going to kill someone" watoo often. i take this as a serious personal insult. the next day, rob mccallum replied in the starkest terms "i think you are potentially placing yourself and your

stockton was always very cautious, and quick to abort, just to be on the safe side. so i think, and taking into account what seems to be happening also the u.s. coast guard description here, where the things has imploded it would seem to indicate that it was something with the structural design more than anything else. it is a new design to use composite material in addition to a bit of titanium on the side, as opposed to building the entire submersible out of titanium, nickel and steel, which you would normally do. so it is an innovative design. it was an experimental submarine that hadn't been certified. and i think that's now is going to be where the debate is going to be around. >> why is that material? why not go to the tried and true material? why not do the things that works and you know is going to work, why use something new and different and refuse to get it certified, refuse to get it classed? >> combustible material has certain characteristics that it is lighter, easier to maneuver around. i mean, a traditional submersible is very heavy, very bulky, and a

stockton rush was the pilot and the head of oceangate, the company behind it all. rush said he originally wanted to be an astronaut after graduating from princeton. but his eyesight was never good enough. instead, he set his sights on the sea. he founded oceangate in 2009 with the belief that our oceans not space are the key to human survival. struck warmest titanic, owning the rights. and they had dived to the wreckage more than 30 times, the first time back in 1987, just two years after the long- lost titanic was found. >> nobody is known more the titanic, passionate about it, the great thing is, humble and kind, he is not arrogant like some folks in the business, and you know, is a true gentleman explorer. >> a spokesperson for the family tells cnn quote, when i talked to paul henry, i can still see his childlike eyes shining because this legendary liner has also become his story. hamish harding was also on board and said to be very excited about the clinician, he had traveled around the world already, as high as space and as deep as the mariana trench, much dee

did you ever convey to stockton rush safety concerns? i mean, i know at one point jay you talked about a friend of shawns worried about things like a squid hitting it and he dismissed those concerns but did you talk to him about your serious structural issues and worries that you had? >> yeah. he came out to las vegas in march to see me. we met a couple of times in person but the march 1st he came out and took me through the titanic exhibition and then we had lunch after. we talked about the expedition that he wanted to go on and they we talked about the safety concerns and i think he had so much passion for the project that he was blinded by it. he was not objective and didn't look at things that i saw and others saw that were problematic because it did not fit his narrative. it's unfortunate. >> it's tragic and shawn i began by saying you and your dad are the kinds of people who would consider something like this. you're already in a small group of people who find this to be something that could install curiosity as opposed to, oh, rig

rush.— stockton rush.a sony playstation _ stockton rush. it is like a sony playstation -type _ stockton rush. it is like a sony playstation -type controller. . stockton rush. it is like a sony| playstation -type controller. he stockton rush. it is like a sony i playstation -type controller. he is the ceo of — playstation -type controller. he is the ceo of oceangate _ playstation -type controller. he is the ceo of oceangate which - playstation —type controller. he is the ceo of oceangate which runs the expeditions. the search continues for the craft in a vast, deep ocean. the vessel is only 22 foot long and there is no back—up ship or escape pod. it there is no back-up ship or escape od. , there is no back-up ship or escape od, , ., ., there is no back-up ship or escape od. , ., ., ., ., ., , there is no back-up ship or escape pod. it is a remote area and it is a challenae pod. it is a remote area and it is a challenge to _ pod. it is a remote area and it is a challenge to conduct _ pod. it is a remote area

well, first of all, stockton rush had the credentials.erospace engineering at princeton. he designed and flew his own airplanes. he designed previous submersibles. second, he was emphatic that the important parts of the "titan" were rock solid, like the carbon fiber body for which nasa served as a consultant. >> there are certain things that you want to be buttoned down, and that's the pressure vessel. once the pressure vessel, you are certain it won't collapse on everybody, everything else can fail. the thrusters can go, lights can go, you will be saved. >> reporter: third, ways convinced by an expert, p.h. nargeolot, the veteran deep sea explorer who also perished in the "titan." over the years he had been to the "titanic" more than just about anyone. how many times? >> the last time, 37 times. >> reporter: you have been to the "titanic" 37 times? >> yes. i was in charge of one, two, three, four, five subs. >> reporter: how different is the "titan" from those other subs? >> completely different. much of them, you have a sphere. >> repor

you spoke to stockton rush about your concerns, i understand. what was the response?ean, we are a small community. within the submersible community, we meet annually. it's a bit of a thanksgiving reunion where the entire family around the world comes together for three days. i mean, we had many, many conversations with stockton and, you know, the issuing of the letter and the discussion is like, look, you are going really fast over here and you are ignoring some of the knowledge base that we have for these things, and the response, which is not completely unique in an industry, is well, the existing regulations are stifling innovation and it's too slow and we have a better method, and it's like, well, now, it's maybe not the only answer, but it is a reliable answer and a process that we know works. you put a design at the front and what comes out is a safe submarine. finding and developing an alternative method of self-certification, it's not forgiving. it's a lot of people that put their minds to this, to get humanity, i like to say, to a level of knowledge where we

and he also really defended stockton rush. i talked about some of the safety concerns that have been brought up in recent years. and emthat was one of the reasons that he wanted to speak. he felt stockton was extremely focused on safety. he said the first deep dive done in the "titan," stockton rush did alone because he didn't want to put anyone else at risk even though guillermo told me he was willing to go only trip. he truly believed how safe this vessel was. he never did one of these "titanic" expeditions himself but he said that was a scheduling thing. he was hoping to do one in the next several years. but again, everyone i think is still holding out hope hear. he really did believe in the safety of this vessel. i brought up the safety concerns that two former oceangate employees had raised concerns about how safe the structure of this vessel was. one, they believed the hull may be too thin. when it arrived it was only five inches thick, instead of seven inches thick. others said the hull has not gone through the the dest

in an e—mail sent in 2018, rob mccallum warned stockton rush... he went on...r, oceangate's stockton rush replied. he told mccallum... he continued... the next day, rob mccallum replied in the starkest terms. oceangate's lawyers then contacted rob mccallum and threatened legal action. today, we've contacted the company again and they say they have no additional information. rob mccallum maintains that no one should have gone down in this submersible. if you steer away from sound engineering principles, which are all based on hard—won experience, there is a price to pay and it's a terrible price, so it should never be allowed to happen again. it shouldn't have been allowed to happen this time. so does safety stifle innovation? this sub, called the limiting factor, has made many dives to the deepest part of the ocean, the mariana trench, which lies nearly 11 kilometres down. nothing is more unique or cutting edge, but the team behind it worked with assessors to give the sub full safety certification. its pilot, victor vescovo, says this incident should change the

well, first of all, stockton rush had the credentials.ineering at princeton. he designed and flew his own airplanes. he designed previous submersibles. second, he was emphatic that the important parts of the "titan" were rock solid. like the carbon fiber body for which nasa served as a consultant. >> there's certain things that you want to be buttoned down, and that's the pressure vessels. once the pressure vessel is -- you're certain it's not going to collapse on everybody, everything else can fail. your thrusters can go, your lights can go, you're still going to be safe. >> reporter: third, i was convinced by an expert. p.h. nargeolet, the veteran deep sea explorer who also perished in the "titan." over the years, he'd been to the "titanic" more than just about anyone. how many times have you been? >> with the last dive, 37 times. >> you've been to the "titanic" 37 times? >> yes. i was in charge of one, two, three, four, five -- five subs. >> how different is the "titan" from those other subs? >> completely different. most of them, you

the pilot of the sub was oceangate ceo stockton rush.is wife wendy is the great-great granddaughter of two of the passengers who perished on the titanic. in a recent interview he shared what drove him to test the boundaries of science with this project. >> i'd like to be remembered as an innovator and the future of mankind is under water, it's not on mars, we are not going to have a base on mars and the moon. we will try and waste a lot of money. we will have a base under water. when the sun extinguishes there will still be hydro thermal vents and still life forms that don't need the sun. if we trash this planet the best life boat for mankind is under water. >> the family of stockton rush has not yet released a public statement. sara? >> sobering. >>> still ahead, as investigators search for what caused the titan tragedy, we're learning more about oceangate's safety procedures and history and the long-held concerns about the submersible's design and construction. >>> plus, more recordings in the trump classified documents case. the forme

so stockton warned us ahead of time to prepare us. he told us that when he was down there that the submarine made many loud noises and that this was to be expected and it was not anywhere close to catastrophic. he also tested models at this point and he had -- he knew where the models fell so i didn't feel our life was really in grave danger at that point. i feel the real failure came with cracking over time and also with the joint and water getting in there. and another thing that happened was he can trolly sis because even carbon fiber is not a metal but sometimes it behaves like a water so the salt water in between there and the titanium flange over time would have caused even more delam nation with the carbon fiber. unfortunately i doubt there's enough pieces. >> you don't think it's -- you don't think it's a coincidence that this implosion happened on the first dive of the season because of the issue that you just raised, you think it's possible salt water could have gotten in even from a previous season >> the year before. it ha

those lost include stockton rush, the founder and chief executive of oceangate expeditions, british businessmanh harding, french researcher and titanic expert paul—henri nargeolet, british—pakistani businessman shahzada dawood and his 19—year—old son, suleman. a number of families have begun to release statements remembering their loved ones and thanking the international community for their support. the dawood family, who lost two family members, wrote in a statement, quote: and the family of hamish harding also reacted to the news of the loss of their loved one, writing: now the search and rescue turn into a search and recovery as authorities attempt to investigate what led up to the tragedy. rear admiraljohn mauger confirmed in that press conference earlier that five parts of the vessel were found approximately 1,600ft from the bow let's get a reminder of how today unfolded. my colleague carl nasman has been with me in boston throughout the day. a piece of information that is new tonight, something cbs has been reporting. new tonight, something cbs has been reporting-— been reporting. they a

stockton rush was piloting the summer civil with disaster struck. with him on board was hamish harding, shahzada dawood and his 19-year-old son suleman dawood. and paul nargeolet, a renowned diver nickname "mr. titanic" who had completed some 35 dives on the famous ship. we just spoke to his stepson in the last hour. >> when he told me that he was going back out for this expedition when i saw him in may i honestly did not think twice. it is one of those things where he has been down so much. he has been on so many different deep dives i did not bat an eye. i just said okay. have fun. i will see you in july. >> we been following the search from the start. there are ships still out on scene and they will continue to look at the debris field. >> some of them. we saw one load up. it was the one carrying the submersible that found the wreckage. other ships like the prince, for instance, it is on his way back. the medical ships on the way back. the prince is the mothership, it is the ship that launched the tightend. it is the platform that goes in first.

and stockton had never once >> what needs to be changed?assed which means uncertified for people who are not familiar. what standards and regulations do you believe can come out of this? >> well, again, for the industry, only operates classed vehicles. we only operate in vehicles that have been certified by classification society. and there is a usually rigorous and expensive process. it adds 20 to 30% to the cost of a build. but most professional operators do that because it's the only way of making sure that there are some oversight and crosschecking. and, i have been asked many times, and showed the industry and the vehicles decertified and the answer is yes, they are. they should be. this was an outlier. >> rob mcallen, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> next, we have new developments in the special counsel jack smith investigation. how he got two more witnesses to tell what they know about efforts to overturn the 2020 election and the aggressive efforts that he took. somebody would ask her something and she would just wa

a few days later, stockton rush replied.allum, i've grown tired of industry players who try to use the safety argument to stop innovation and new entrants from entering the small existing market. since the formerfounder small existing market. since the former founder of oceangate and i started ocean gates, we heard the baseless cries of you are going to kill someone way too often. i take this as serious personal insult. the next day, rob mccallum replied in the starkest terms. i think you are potentially placing yourself and your clients in a dangerous dynamic. ironically, in your race to titanic, you are mirroring that famous cry, she is unsinkable. oceangate's lawyers then contacted rob mccallum and threatened legal action. today we've contacted them again, and they say they have no additional information. rob mccallum maintains that no—one should have gone in this submersible. if you steer away from sound engineering principles, which are all based on won experience, dart—mac so does safety stifle innovation? safety stifl

and his criticism of stockton rush here, the ceo of oceangate, centres around the approach of stocktonny, the materials they are using in the titan sub, but also around this lack of a certification process, the idea that you bring a third party in and they run the rule over your technology, then ultimately give you a piece of paper saying, "this ship is worthy, you can go use it," it won't guarantee that it'll not implode, as we saw on sunday, but that it meets the basic standards required. and as you say, the exchange ends up with the oceangate lawyers getting in touch with rob mccullum and saying, we don't want to have a legal issue with you over this exchange. and remember, it's all about safety at the end of the day, it's about this unusual shape, the materials, the carbon fibre used in it which is very unusual in this sort of activity, and again, that certification process, and this sub did not go through it. and on the vessel on sunday was hamish harding, the british billionaire and adventure — he was great friends with victor for scoville, they went down to the bottom of the oce

the first was near beach and stockton across from pier 39. the second, down the embarcadero at howard street. tonight we are seeing dashcam footage of the moment the gunfire broke out as people run for their lives. for more on the video and the latest of investigation, let's go to reporter lena howland live in the city. reporter: this video is incredible. before we show it, we want to warn you that some people may find it disturbing. it shows the moment that gunshots first rang out outside of fisherman's wharf commitment less than that later, the moment the two suspect vehicles raced through an intersection before hitting two young girls with their breaks. new video recorded by a dashcam just blocks away from pier 39 shows the terrifying moments when gunshots were not. it captures people on the elevated walkway and street below, running to safety. other people can be seen ducking for cover behind a parked cars. seconds later as the vehicle approaches a section of northpoint and embarcadero, the suspect vehicles, a black suv and a white sedan,

stockton rush is a visionary who was trying to democratise the abyss. take humanity where it had never gone before. and it's an area of the world that is largely unexplored, and it is critical to the future of this planet and our efforts to combat climate change because lithium, all of these other elements, they are so important to our future. they are at the bottom of the ocean and we have to sort out how to access them without degrading the bottom of the ocean. that is the vision. that's what stockton was pursuing and he was using destinations like the titanic to captivate interest, to get people fascinated by going into the abyss. and that is what is going on here. it is not a tourist, it's not as simple as saying it is a tourist sub. i deeply resent that. around the world and across the uk. this is bbc news. six year 0rne whiteman was hit by a car whilst playing close to his home in wakefield in 2011. , to his home in wakefield in 2011. y ., a, , 2011. somebody came to alert us of what had _ 2011. somebody came to alert us of what had happened. _ 20

also stockton rush, 61, the founder of ocean rush. also lost aboard, 58-year-old pilot in aerial adventurer hamish harding, and british pakistani billionaire shahzada dawood who is 48 years, old and his 19-year-old son suleman. now there is no good news in what happened at all. but perhaps some comfort for the loved ones and those now lost, that according to former longtime navy physician dr. aileen marty, who we will speak of shortly, the implosion that took their lives would have happened many times faster than the human brain could have even detected it, let alone experienced fear. in just a moment, we will talk to the titanic director james cameron, who himself has made 33 dives to the titanic. he joins us. but first, cnn's miguel marquez with more about what we now know. miguel, you really have been covering this from the beginning, it is the worst possible findings. >> there was so much hope. there was slivers of it, but people really clung to it here in st. john's and across this community. and around the world, it was amazing

stockton rush said no , he did not want to risk the lives of anybody else on that test mission.t a life of hijinks up in the air, under the ocean. his luck finally ran out at age 61. >> thank you very much. it is sobering. it does give you a sense that this was not something they did for tourists. this was done out of a deep passion, a commitment and a passion to explore and to map the bottom of the whole earth. paul-henri nargeolet had been doing this -- he was known as mr. titanic, 35 times down to the titanic, a person from exploring the ocean was an area of deep passion. he was also on board and his stepson john paschall joins me now. i am so sorry for your loss , just hearing about your stepfather over these past few days from so many who knew him and worked with him, saying at least he is down there. if they are trying to conserve that last air, he would know what to do. there was no one else they would rather be down there with. what do you want the world to know about your stepfather? >> first off, thank you for having me. it is so easy to look at the accomplishments he

oceangate founder and ceo stockton rush. "true explorers who shared a distinct spirit of the adventure and deep passion for exploring. we grieve the loss of life and joy they brought to everyone they knew." the coast guard reaching out to their families. >> i can only imagine what this has been like for them. and i hope that this discovery provides some solace during this difficult time. >> reporter: it's early in what's now a recovery mission. the aircraft and ships that t he beenen a part ofof the searcrch expected to clear the area, while the underwater assets will continue to search for evidence along the ocean's floor. >>> ian cull joins us with a closer look at the people who lost their lives and their connections to the bay area. >> as jay gray mentioned, a heartbreaking end to that search. take a closer look at the five men aboard. they are shahzada dawood and 19-year-old son suleman. hamish harding. paul-henri nargeolet. stockton rush, a cal graduate and ceo of oceangate expeditions, the company that owns the sub. s

stockton, as well, experienced explore as well, will also help fully keep the calm. but having said that, one thing is the oxygen side of things, and also the co2 that is being breathed in, that people are breathing out. and there comes a point, obviously, where there will be too much co2, and too little oxygen, effectively. so, it is really a race against time. and something close to a -- i wouldn't say a miracle or something, but will have to happen pretty soon. because we are really, really running a tight rope here. ideally, the submersible would start to come up by itself. >> so, unless that vehicle can somehow surface on its own, i mean, that is where, that's where the who really still lies. that is obviously the best-case scenario, for the vehicle to be able to service on its own somehow, even though it seems it's not been able to do that. because all of this, the aerial searching, the all of which is important, because not only placing sonar devices, which is why we know about the banging sounds, but also in case this vehicle has surfaced, it's critical to ge

in an email sent in 2018, maccallum warned rush that: he went on: stockton rush replied: earlier, myoston. carl, it's great to see you. first of all, the us and canada have announced they are launching investigations into what happened. tell us more about what they will be examining. earlier, of course, we heard from relatives of one of the people that was on that vessel, hamish harding, they have been calling for a full investigation into this incident. it looks like they will be getting two. on the us aside, confirming to bbc news the us national transportation safety board will be involved in an investigation into this incident which will be led, we believe, by the us coast guard. and on the canadian side, their transportation board will be looking into this incident as well. they have announced they are launching a probe and they will be conducting some interviews on the ground in newfoundland, and stjohn�*s — which is where all of the ships had been launched as the closest landmass to where the dive site is — so we are expecting some investigations now. we're not sure exactly wh

stockton as well, experienced explorer as well. would also hopefully keep the calm. but having said that, one thing is the oxygen side of things. and there's also the co2 that's being breathed, that people are breathing out. there comes a point there will be too much co2 and too little oxygen. so, it is effectively a race against time and something close to -- i wouldn't say miracle or something would have to happen soon because we are running a tight rope here. ideally the submersible will start to come up by itself. >> so, unless that vehicle can somehow surface on its own, i mean, that is where -- that's where the hope really still lies. i mean, that is obviously the best-case scenario, for the vehicle to be able to surface on its even though it has not been able to do that. all of this -- the aerial searching, all of which is important because not only placing sonar devices, which is why we know about the banging sounds but also in case this vehicle has surfaced, it's critical to get to that vehicle even though it's surfaced because the people inside can't get ou

sub, oceangate, just released a statement this afternoon singing part we now believe that our ceo stockton suleman and shahzada dawood , hamish harding and paul henry have been lost, they were true explorers that shared a distinct spirit of adventure and a deep passion for exploring and protecting the world's oceans. our hearts are with these five souls, and every member of the families during the tragic time. we grieve the loss of life and joy they brought to everyone they knew. have sadly been lost was the term, have sadly been lost, and interesting use of the passive voice from the company ultimately behind this horrible accident, the spring in miguel in st. john's newfoundland where they began their ill- fated journey, and the understanding, winston the search on the ocean floor is not over is that correct rex meeker it is not over, they want to figure out more about why and how it happened, matthew debris field and see if they can recover not only debris, but remains of the victims, here's how the rear admiral of the u.s. coast guard put it. >> this is a incredibly unforgiving environ

a few days later, oceangate s stockton rush replied...plied in the starkest terms: oceangate's lawyers then contacted rob maccullum and threatened legal action. today, we ve contacted them again and they say they have no additional information. rob mccallum maintains that no—one should have gone in this submersible. this morning, we heard from william kohnen, chairman of the us marine technology society, manned underwater vehicles committee. in 2018, he and other engineers wrote a letter to stockton rush warning of the dangers of using an uncertified craft. this was clearly preventable and we do have regulations and the issue is as an industry, we make submersibles and making submersibles here in los angeles for 30 years and some the best submarines in the world and there is order in their ways to be clever and go around things and for sure, it needs to be clear that he submersible like this and with the redoing for tourism would not be allowed in us waters and the coastguard would not allow it. it would not be allowed to work in british

and it was my honor, my pleasure to work with stockton rush and the crew.rade. but it made sense to me that that particular engineering choice may lead to some trouble down the road. >> did you or anyone else at the company raise concerns about the integrity of carbon fiber? and i'm wondering, if so, what was the reaction? >> well, so, when you're developing something like this, there's a lot of people who have the engineering prowess to speak in to various aspects of a build like this. and material scientists, material experts, subject matter experts, would raise concerns. and then there would be steps by oceangate to mitigate those concerns. and really, whenever you start a project like this and you make some initial choices, just one thing builds on another. so, there was a definite reason to pick carbon fiber. but, yeah, it may not be the right material. >> yeah. i appreciate your time tonight. thank you very much. i'm joined now by someone who's been with us this week and knew hamish harding and stockton rush well, who was involved with two missions in

i adored stockton and p.h., who were on the trip with me.on that particular dive. but i didn't have any reservations. i just was so excited to be doing something that i'd been hoping to do for 11 years. >> and what did stockton tell you at that time about safety? what did you ask him? did you know, for instance, that he had employed a sort of unorthodox construction of the submersible, that other people in the industry didn't know if it would work? basically, it wasn't industry standard. did you know that at the time? >> no, i did not know that. i did know, because i was originally supposed to go out in 2019 when they thought the pressure tests would be finished and "titan" would be able to take out passengers in 2019. and there was some sort of problems with weather in the bahamas where they were testing it and other things. and so they scratched all those trips that were scheduled for 2019. i think then the "titan" was tested and found that maybe it had to be reinforced some more, which i think was done during 2020. i don't know all the de

a few days later, oceangate's stockton rush replied... he told rob mccallum...t day, rob mccallum replied in the starkest terms... oceangate's lawyers then contacted rob mccallum and threatened legal action. today, we've contacted them again and they say they have no additional information. rob mccallum maintains that no—one should have gone in this submersible. no—one should have gone let's get more on this from carl nasman, our correspondent in boston, where the search was coordinated. over to you, carl. family members today have — over to you, carl. family members today have called _ over to you, carl. family members today have called for _ over to you, carl. family members today have called for a _ over to you, carl. family members today have called for a full - today have called for a full investigation into exactly what happened on that titan submersible post up these are family members of one of the british passengers on board. meanwhile, today, recovery efforts continue. about 900 miles from a rear sending efforts continue. about 900 miles from a rearsen

stockton rush, the boss _ place he would like to be.be. stockton rush, the boss of the _ place he would like to be. stockton rush, the boss of the expedition, i place he would like to be. stockton | rush, the boss of the expedition, is also missing. serious questions about how safe it submersible was, with debris found, the hopes of the families now appear to be fading. we will of course keep you up—to—date with any development on that story on bbc news. our other main story tonight. interest rates have now reached their highest level for 15 years — since 2008. the bank of england has pushed rates up again — for the 13th month in a row — from 4.5 to 5% — a bigger rise than expected. it will affect 1.4 million people on variable and tracker mortgages. it affects people renting if landlords decide to charge more to cover their costs. and, if it stays high for some time, it could also affect people whose fixed rate mortgages are coming to an end. our economics editor faisal islam is here. the rise was designed to drain spending powerfrom t

also on board are the us captain, stockton _ exploration.re the us captain, stockton rush, and i exploration. also on board are the j us captain, stockton rush, and an experienced french navy diver, paul—henri nargeolet, who experts say would know what to do to be found. ., ., ., , ., ., found. protocol for trying to alert searchin: found. protocol for trying to alert searching forces, _ found. protocol for trying to alert searching forces, in _ found. protocol for trying to alert searching forces, in the - found. protocol for trying to alert searching forces, in the navy - searching forces, in the navy anyway, on the hour and a half hour, you bang like hell for three minutes. you bang like hell for three minutes— you bang like hell for three minutes. ., ., , ., , minutes. the titan has no escape hatch and its _ minutes. the titan has no escape hatch and its occupants _ minutes. the titan has no escape hatch and its occupants are - minutes. the titan has no escape | hatch and its occupants are bolted in, so even if it has managed to surface,

wendy married stockton rush in 1986, according to a "new york times" wedding announcement. wendy with deep ties to the "titanic," now in a tragic twist of fate, her husband dies on an expedition to see the shipwreck. we have continuing coverage of this tragedy on our home page, nbcbayarea.com. watch more of the coast guard's news conference from today and read about the hesitation of one passenger who reportedly had before going on that ill-fated trip. >>> we'll move to san francisco where right now police are investigating a deadly shooting by one of their officers in the richmond district. the officer killed a man after that man allegedly killed a member of his own family and the family's dog. here's nbc bay area's sergio quintana. >> reporter: for much of the day, a police cruiser parked outside a home on 31st avenue in san francisco's richmond district. chalk marks could be seen on the sidewalk outside, part of the efforts by crime scene investigators to collect evidence. the people who live at this home are effie's next-door neighbors. >> it's really a shame. it was a

stockton gave a lot of presentations about it. he was clearly focussed and obsessed with checklists and safety. he was also proud of having built the submersible with this new material, the composite material, which is a departure how you normally build submersibles. there was a bit of chatter and debate in the community among engineers -- i'm not an engineer so i couldn't assess it. some said it's fine and the other group of critics said, no, using carbon fiber is not the right thing. the pressure is just too hard and over the long term it's not going to sustain. sadly those critics were proved right. >> david, officials say debris was found 1,600 feet from the titanic wreckage. does that indicate to you that maybe they actually made it to the wreckage of the titanic, or not necessarily? >> i think they were probably descending and getting close, but because the debris field was spread out a little bit, my sense is in the report, in the press conference they talked about being in the water column. they were probably much closer t

. >> real quickly, this is a quote from the ceo, stockton rush. i mean, if you really want to be safe, don't get out of bed, he said, this is what he told "the washington post." don't get in your car, don't do anything. at some point you're going to take some risk and it really is a risk/reward question. just how much that ceo and sub captain loved the thrill seeking that he was doing and sharing with so many others. emily. >> mike, i note that the lawsuit you mentioned earlier which a couple sued oceangate for fraud, the allegations, it focused on them not receiving a refund for a trip just like this one they would have taken, that they never got money back that they paid for it. among reasons given for it being postponed included equipment failure. of course, that suit remains to play out and we hope there's no correlation with the situation here. however, it does raise questions. one i have for you, mike, what are you hearing boots on ground with naval experts that might have hypotheses about what happened or what faced those five souls. >> tha

the stockton rush was also correct. the oceans are fundamental to our future.floor. we have to explore this last great frontier. it is critical to the survival of life on earth. he was a trailblazer. >> i guess the question james cameron race is is it correct to bring passengers, paying passengers to maybe do not know the full safety profile or the lack of protocols that were followed in the development of this vessel. i think that is the question james cameron was raising. i appreciate your time.alfred hagen, thank you so much. we will talk to james cameron and have more of that interview throughout the next two hours. >> much more that story. we also have much more news. whistleblowers have just told congress the irs recommended charging hunter biden with felonies. why they say those charges were never filed coming up next. i won't let me moderate to severe plaque psoriasis symptoms define me... emerge as you. with tremfya®, most people saw 90% clearer skin at 4 months... ...and the majority stayed clearer, at 5 years. serious allergic reactions may occur. tr

a dive years ago. >> stockton obviously was a deep sea explorer who did what few people have done. >iticism from a group of experts in the submersible industry, who wrote a letter to the company in 2018 warning of possible catastrophic problems. one of those experts, will cohen, said the titan hadn't passed safety standards. >> there are only ten vehicles in the whole world that can go 4,000 meters or deeper, and all of them are certified except the titan. >> reporter: while wimmer mourns for his friend, he believes this setback will not stop other people from deep water exploring. >> we've never been held back by defeats along the way. the quest will continue for exploration. >> reporter: tonight a navy official tells cbs news that the navy detected what it called an acoustic anomaly consistent with an implosion shortly after the titan lost contact on sunday. the official says the information was shared with the cast guard, which used it to narrow down the search area. jericka. >> all right. roxana saberi, thank you. >>> president biden welcomed indian prime minister narendra modi t

stockton rush replied? ?'rown tired of industry players who try to use a safety argument to stop innovation and new entrants from entering their small existing market. live now to our correspondent in boston, carl nasman. us and have announced that they are doing investigations into what happened. can you tell us what they will be doing? earlier, we heard from relatives from one person on the vessel, hamish harding, they will be two investigations on the us side. the us national transformation safety board said they will be investigating this incident which we believe will be led by the coastguard. the canadian transport board said they will be looking into this and that they will be launching a probe and they will be conducting interviews on the ground in newfoundland where all the ships have been launched, the closest lan mast where the dive site is so we are expecting some investigations now. we aren't sure when they will wrap up but now there are some national bodies looking into this. as we've mentioned,

>> well, it was a group of explorers and stockton was a visionary. a man who -- he had a vision of exploring the bottom of the ocean, and he had a passion and we don't know much about what's going on down there, and we really need to, and he was pushing the limits and making it happen. he had a vision, and he -- you know, few other people could do it, and he did it. so he was a hero of mine and somebody who made these type of things happen, and people like p.h., there was another person who had been in submarines for 60 years. no one had more experience in a sub than p.h., and soft-spoken, humble, just a true gentleman. and people like hamish who they were doing so many exploration trips and pushing the limits, and the way this happened was so unfortunate, and we feel for the families, but in that sub was a sense of exploration and more experience in there than -- than you can see anywhere else in the world. >> we certainly do feel for the families today. aaron, in terms of figuring out what happened, the coast guard is saying this is catastroph reco

i mean, look, stockton rush is a princeton trained aerospace engineer.ce adviser also died in the sub, one of the most dived titanic veterans in the world. he had captained five different titanic submersibles and he approved the structure. he wouldn't have gone on if there was something wrong with it. as i mentioned, the crew had this really conservative safety record, so yes, it's horrible. and yes, i'm sure we'll find out that mistakes were made, but it wasn't like the guy made a lego box and threw it in the water. >> understood, david. thank you so much for the story you did and for explaining what your experiences were like there. and defending the ceo of oceangate. i appreciate you coming on. >> thank you. >>> all right, kate. >> minutes from now, traffic will be flowing once again where i-95 collapsed in philadelphia just two weeks ago. but the thing about it is, this is just a temporary fix. danny freeman has more on this from philadelphia. he's joining us now. danny, are people surprised how quickly they have been able to reopen the flow of traff

a dive years ago. >> stockton obviously was a deep-sea explorer who did what few people have done. >ngate has faced criticism from a group of experts in the submersible industry who wrote a letter to the company in 2018 warning of possible catastrophic problems. one of those experts, will kohnen, said the titan hadn't paced safety standards. >> there are only ten vehicles in the whole world that can go 4,000 meters or deeper and all of them are certified except the titan. >> reporter: while wimmer mourns for his friend, he believes this setback will not stop other people from deepwater exploring. >> we've never been held back by defeats along the way. the quest will continue for exploration. >> reporter: tonight a navy official tells cbs news that the navy detected what it called an acoustic anomaly consistent with an implosion shortly after the titan lost contact on sunday. the official says the information was shared with the coast guard which used it to narrow down the search area. jericka. >> jericka: all right, roxana saberi, thank you. tonight we are keeping an eye on another r

police say the first shooting happened at beach and stockton across the street from pier 39. two cars were exchanging gunfire as they chased after eachth. shortl after, another shootin scene happened on the embarcadero at howard. police are confirming at least two people were hit tonight. we have live team covered for you as we work to get you the latest information. that's begin with abc seven news reporter j.r. stone at the embarcadero scene and still very active at last check. j.r.: it certainly is. this area along the embarcadero has been closed off with yellow crime scene tape for at least four hours. as we pan off, you can see some of those detectives, but it is not just those detectives. we are waiting word for the police chief who should be speaking at any minute. detectives working along the embarcadero sunday night where evidence markers were scattered everywhere. >> it sounded like backfire from a car engine and also you heard pa j.r.: that from a woman eating in this area with her family on the embarcadero. please confirm at least two people were shot. witnesses t

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