rob mccallum warns stockton rush... he went on...ays later, oceangate�*s stockton rush replied... he told rob mccallum... guillermo, the former co—founder of oceangate. .. the next day, rob mccallum replied, in starkest terms, i think you are potentially placing yourself and your clients in a dangerous dynamic. right, let's get more on this right now. our science correspondent jonathan amos is standing by. this is quite a stark exchange of e—mails? it this is quite a stark exchange of e-mails? , ,., , , , e-mails? it is polite but it is very testy. one _ e-mails? it is polite but it is very testy. one has — e-mails? it is polite but it is very testy, one has to _ e-mails? it is polite but it is very testy, one has to say, _ e-mails? it is polite but it is very testy, one has to say, lewis, - e-mails? it is polite but it is very testy, one has to say, lewis, if. e-mails? it is polite but it is very l testy, one has to say, lewis, if you redo the whole exchange. should just describe who rob mccallum is. he is one of the world's leading

the bbc has been exclusively given and email exchange between stockton rush, the ceo of oceangate, whoin the incident, and a leading deepwater exploration specialist. let's take a look. this was on email sent in 2018. he warned a stockton rush, i have given everyone the same advice, which is that until a sub is classed, tested, and proven, it should not be used for commercial deep dive operations. he went on -- as much as i appreciate entrepreneurship and innovation, you are potentially putting an entire industry at risk, so i implore you to take every care in your testing and sea trials, and to be very conservative. days later, stockton rush replied "i have grown tired of industry players who try to use a safety argument to stop innovation and new entrants into the existing market. he told rob mccammon, since the form co-founder and i started oceangate, we have heard the baseless cries of "you are going to kill someone" watoo often. i take this as a serious personal insult. the next day, rob mccallum replied in the starkest terms "i think you are potentially placing yourself and your

stockton rush was the pilot and the head of oceangate, the company behind it all. rush said he originally wanted to be an astronaut after graduating from princeton. but his eyesight was never good enough. instead, he set his sights on the sea. he founded oceangate in 2009 with the belief that our oceans not space are the key to human survival. struck warmest titanic, owning the rights. and they had dived to the wreckage more than 30 times, the first time back in 1987, just two years after the long- lost titanic was found. >> nobody is known more the titanic, passionate about it, the great thing is, humble and kind, he is not arrogant like some folks in the business, and you know, is a true gentleman explorer. >> a spokesperson for the family tells cnn quote, when i talked to paul henry, i can still see his childlike eyes shining because this legendary liner has also become his story. hamish harding was also on board and said to be very excited about the clinician, he had traveled around the world already, as high as space and as deep as the mariana trench, much deep

rush.— stockton rush.a sony playstation _ stockton rush. it is like a sony playstation -type _ stockton rush. it is like a sony playstation -type controller. . stockton rush. it is like a sony| playstation -type controller. he stockton rush. it is like a sony i playstation -type controller. he is the ceo of — playstation -type controller. he is the ceo of oceangate _ playstation -type controller. he is the ceo of oceangate which - playstation —type controller. he is the ceo of oceangate which runs the expeditions. the search continues for the craft in a vast, deep ocean. the vessel is only 22 foot long and there is no back—up ship or escape pod. it there is no back-up ship or escape od. , there is no back-up ship or escape od, , ., ., there is no back-up ship or escape od. , ., ., ., ., ., , there is no back-up ship or escape pod. it is a remote area and it is a challenae pod. it is a remote area and it is a challenge to _ pod. it is a remote area and it is a challenge to conduct _ pod. it is a remote area

in an e—mail sent in 2018, rob mccallum warned stockton rush... he went on...r, oceangate's stockton rush replied. he told mccallum... he continued... the next day, rob mccallum replied in the starkest terms. oceangate's lawyers then contacted rob mccallum and threatened legal action. today, we've contacted the company again and they say they have no additional information. rob mccallum maintains that no one should have gone down in this submersible. if you steer away from sound engineering principles, which are all based on hard—won experience, there is a price to pay and it's a terrible price, so it should never be allowed to happen again. it shouldn't have been allowed to happen this time. so does safety stifle innovation? this sub, called the limiting factor, has made many dives to the deepest part of the ocean, the mariana trench, which lies nearly 11 kilometres down. nothing is more unique or cutting edge, but the team behind it worked with assessors to give the sub full safety certification. its pilot, victor vescovo, says this incident should change the

well, first of all, stockton rush had the credentials.erospace engineering at princeton. he designed and flew his own airplanes. he designed previous submersibles. second, he was emphatic that the important parts of the "titan" were rock solid, like the carbon fiber body for which nasa served as a consultant. >> there are certain things that you want to be buttoned down, and that's the pressure vessel. once the pressure vessel, you are certain it won't collapse on everybody, everything else can fail. the thrusters can go, lights can go, you will be saved. >> reporter: third, ways convinced by an expert, p.h. nargeolot, the veteran deep sea explorer who also perished in the "titan." over the years he had been to the "titanic" more than just about anyone. how many times? >> the last time, 37 times. >> reporter: you have been to the "titanic" 37 times? >> yes. i was in charge of one, two, three, four, five subs. >> reporter: how different is the "titan" from those other subs? >> completely different. much of them, you have a sphere. >> repor

a few days later, stockton rush replied.allum, i've grown tired of industry players who try to use the safety argument to stop innovation and new entrants from entering the small existing market. since the formerfounder small existing market. since the former founder of oceangate and i started ocean gates, we heard the baseless cries of you are going to kill someone way too often. i take this as serious personal insult. the next day, rob mccallum replied in the starkest terms. i think you are potentially placing yourself and your clients in a dangerous dynamic. ironically, in your race to titanic, you are mirroring that famous cry, she is unsinkable. oceangate's lawyers then contacted rob mccallum and threatened legal action. today we've contacted them again, and they say they have no additional information. rob mccallum maintains that no—one should have gone in this submersible. if you steer away from sound engineering principles, which are all based on won experience, dart—mac so does safety stifle innovation? safety stifl

and his criticism of stockton rush here, the ceo of oceangate, centres around the approach of stocktonny, the materials they are using in the titan sub, but also around this lack of a certification process, the idea that you bring a third party in and they run the rule over your technology, then ultimately give you a piece of paper saying, "this ship is worthy, you can go use it," it won't guarantee that it'll not implode, as we saw on sunday, but that it meets the basic standards required. and as you say, the exchange ends up with the oceangate lawyers getting in touch with rob mccullum and saying, we don't want to have a legal issue with you over this exchange. and remember, it's all about safety at the end of the day, it's about this unusual shape, the materials, the carbon fibre used in it which is very unusual in this sort of activity, and again, that certification process, and this sub did not go through it. and on the vessel on sunday was hamish harding, the british billionaire and adventure — he was great friends with victor for scoville, they went down to the bottom of the oce

the pilot of the sub was oceangate ceo stockton rush.is wife wendy is the great-great granddaughter of two of the passengers who perished on the titanic. in a recent interview he shared what drove him to test the boundaries of science with this project. >> i'd like to be remembered as an innovator and the future of mankind is under water, it's not on mars, we are not going to have a base on mars and the moon. we will try and waste a lot of money. we will have a base under water. when the sun extinguishes there will still be hydro thermal vents and still life forms that don't need the sun. if we trash this planet the best life boat for mankind is under water. >> the family of stockton rush has not yet released a public statement. sara? >> sobering. >>> still ahead, as investigators search for what caused the titan tragedy, we're learning more about oceangate's safety procedures and history and the long-held concerns about the submersible's design and construction. >>> plus, more recordings in the trump classified documents case. the forme

well, first of all, stockton rush had the credentials.ineering at princeton. he designed and flew his own airplanes. he designed previous submersibles. second, he was emphatic that the important parts of the "titan" were rock solid. like the carbon fiber body for which nasa served as a consultant. >> there's certain things that you want to be buttoned down, and that's the pressure vessels. once the pressure vessel is -- you're certain it's not going to collapse on everybody, everything else can fail. your thrusters can go, your lights can go, you're still going to be safe. >> reporter: third, i was convinced by an expert. p.h. nargeolet, the veteran deep sea explorer who also perished in the "titan." over the years, he'd been to the "titanic" more than just about anyone. how many times have you been? >> with the last dive, 37 times. >> you've been to the "titanic" 37 times? >> yes. i was in charge of one, two, three, four, five -- five subs. >> how different is the "titan" from those other subs? >> completely different. most of them, you

stockton rush replied, "i have grown tired of industry players who try to use the safety argument tonew entrants from entering their small existing market. let's go live to the person covering the story from his from boston this evening. carl, great to see you come in so tell us about this exchange between these two people. correspondent: yeah, emails the bbc has seen and there is a long exchange between the ceo of this company that operated the festival -- vessel and an expense deep-sea explorer. you mentioned the back-and-forth but a couple of things stand out, there were lots of concerns brought up one about the carbon fiber used to construct the main part of the chamber, where people actually sit inside the titan, saying this was not an appropriate material to be using for this kind of deep-sea vessel. the other concern was as you mentioned about outside certification saying you know this vessel needs to be certified by someone outside the company. the two went back for him stockton rush essentially dismissed these claims saying that they were baseless. >> this was clearly preven

and he also really defended stockton rush. i talked about some of the safety concerns that have been brought up in recent years. and emthat was one of the reasons that he wanted to speak. he felt stockton was extremely focused on safety. he said the first deep dive done in the "titan," stockton rush did alone because he didn't want to put anyone else at risk even though guillermo told me he was willing to go only trip. he truly believed how safe this vessel was. he never did one of these "titanic" expeditions himself but he said that was a scheduling thing. he was hoping to do one in the next several years. but again, everyone i think is still holding out hope hear. he really did believe in the safety of this vessel. i brought up the safety concerns that two former oceangate employees had raised concerns about how safe the structure of this vessel was. one, they believed the hull may be too thin. when it arrived it was only five inches thick, instead of seven inches thick. others said the hull has not gone through the the destr

you spoke to stockton rush about your concerns, i understand. what was the response?ean, we are a small community. within the submersible community, we meet annually. it's a bit of a thanksgiving reunion where the entire family around the world comes together for three days. i mean, we had many, many conversations with stockton and, you know, the issuing of the letter and the discussion is like, look, you are going really fast over here and you are ignoring some of the knowledge base that we have for these things, and the response, which is not completely unique in an industry, is well, the existing regulations are stifling innovation and it's too slow and we have a better method, and it's like, well, now, it's maybe not the only answer, but it is a reliable answer and a process that we know works. you put a design at the front and what comes out is a safe submarine. finding and developing an alternative method of self-certification, it's not forgiving. it's a lot of people that put their minds to this, to get humanity, i like to say, to a level of knowledge where we

it's a cliche, but that was a cliche coined for instances like this. >> not only did stockton rush have a great interest in the "titanic," his wife, wendy, is a descendent of two of the wealthiest people to die on board the ocean liner. according to the strauss historical society, wendy rush is the great granddaughter of isidore and ida rush. "titanic" survivors say issa gore refused a seat on the boat because he said women and children were still trying to escape, and ida refused to leave her husband. their fate was portrayed in a famous scene in the james cameron film, the elderly couple who spent their last moments together in their cabin as water came rushing on board. >> fascinating story, thank you. >>> san francisco's desperately trying to clean up the streets. today, changes are coming to the city's drug arrest policy. beginning july 3rd, people arrested for drug use or possession for a second time will be taken to a specialized court, a community justice center. the center includes a courtroom and a social service center that can refer people to drug treatment, mental health pr

stockton rush said no , he did not want to risk the lives of anybody else on that test mission.t a life of hijinks up in the air, under the ocean. his luck finally ran out at age 61. >> thank you very much. it is sobering. it does give you a sense that this was not something they did for tourists. this was done out of a deep passion, a commitment and a passion to explore and to map the bottom of the whole earth. paul-henri nargeolet had been doing this -- he was known as mr. titanic, 35 times down to the titanic, a person from exploring the ocean was an area of deep passion. he was also on board and his stepson john paschall joins me now. i am so sorry for your loss , just hearing about your stepfather over these past few days from so many who knew him and worked with him, saying at least he is down there. if they are trying to conserve that last air, he would know what to do. there was no one else they would rather be down there with. what do you want the world to know about your stepfather? >> first off, thank you for having me. it is so easy to look at the accomplishments he

in an email sent in 2018, maccallum warned rush that: he went on: stockton rush replied: earlier, myoston. carl, it's great to see you. first of all, the us and canada have announced they are launching investigations into what happened. tell us more about what they will be examining. earlier, of course, we heard from relatives of one of the people that was on that vessel, hamish harding, they have been calling for a full investigation into this incident. it looks like they will be getting two. on the us aside, confirming to bbc news the us national transportation safety board will be involved in an investigation into this incident which will be led, we believe, by the us coast guard. and on the canadian side, their transportation board will be looking into this incident as well. they have announced they are launching a probe and they will be conducting some interviews on the ground in newfoundland, and stjohn�*s — which is where all of the ships had been launched as the closest landmass to where the dive site is — so we are expecting some investigations now. we're not sure exactly wh

a few days later, oceangate s stockton rush replied...plied in the starkest terms: oceangate's lawyers then contacted rob maccullum and threatened legal action. today, we ve contacted them again and they say they have no additional information. rob mccallum maintains that no—one should have gone in this submersible. this morning, we heard from william kohnen, chairman of the us marine technology society, manned underwater vehicles committee. in 2018, he and other engineers wrote a letter to stockton rush warning of the dangers of using an uncertified craft. this was clearly preventable and we do have regulations and the issue is as an industry, we make submersibles and making submersibles here in los angeles for 30 years and some the best submarines in the world and there is order in their ways to be clever and go around things and for sure, it needs to be clear that he submersible like this and with the redoing for tourism would not be allowed in us waters and the coastguard would not allow it. it would not be allowed to work in british

, oceangate, just released a statement this afternoon singing part we now believe that our ceo stockton rushman and shahzada dawood , hamish harding and paul henry have been lost, they were true explorers that shared a distinct spirit of adventure and a deep passion for exploring and protecting the world's oceans. our hearts are with these five souls, and every member of the families during the tragic time. we grieve the loss of life and joy they brought to everyone they knew. have sadly been lost was the term, have sadly been lost, and interesting use of the passive voice from the company ultimately behind this horrible accident, the spring in miguel in st. john's newfoundland where they began their ill- fated journey, and the understanding, winston the search on the ocean floor is not over is that correct rex meeker it is not over, they want to figure out more about why and how it happened, matthew debris field and see if they can recover not only debris, but remains of the victims, here's how the rear admiral of the u.s. coast guard put it. >> this is a incredibly unforgiving environment

and also stockton rush, he's the ceo of this whole endeavor, of oceangate expeditions. he was 61 years old. and aerospace engineer with a well documented love of deep sea exploration. he designed this submersible, and as we've seen in the past few days of coverage, it was jury rigged with a video game controller. there was also a lot of criticism with the way it was made, the materials he decided to use, the fact that it wasn't classed, it wasn't certified to say this is what it could handle and there was worry that something bad would happen, something catastrophic, which would mean not only, you know, bad things for him and those people on board but also for the entire industry, and while people might roll their eyes and say this is a bunch of rich people doing rich people tourism, what it also enabled was the funding and exploration for science. this enabled a lot more science to understand the deep oceans, which we know so little about. so he was the fifth passenger on that submersible. let's bring in retired u.s. navy captain bobby schole, the first woman to serve

also stockton rush, 61, the founder of ocean rush. also lost aboard, 58-year-old pilot in aerial adventurer hamish harding, and british pakistani billionaire shahzada dawood who is 48 years, old and his 19-year-old son suleman. now there is no good news in what happened at all. but perhaps some comfort for the loved ones and those now lost, that according to former longtime navy physician dr. aileen marty, who we will speak of shortly, the implosion that took their lives would have happened many times faster than the human brain could have even detected it, let alone experienced fear. in just a moment, we will talk to the titanic director james cameron, who himself has made 33 dives to the titanic. he joins us. but first, cnn's miguel marquez with more about what we now know. miguel, you really have been covering this from the beginning, it is the worst possible findings. >> there was so much hope. there was slivers of it, but people really clung to it here in st. john's and across this community. and around the world, it was amazing

stockton rush, the boss _ place he would like to be.be. stockton rush, the boss of the _ place he would like to be. stockton rush, the boss of the expedition, i place he would like to be. stockton | rush, the boss of the expedition, is also missing. serious questions about how safe it submersible was, with debris found, the hopes of the families now appear to be fading. we will of course keep you up—to—date with any development on that story on bbc news. our other main story tonight. interest rates have now reached their highest level for 15 years — since 2008. the bank of england has pushed rates up again — for the 13th month in a row — from 4.5 to 5% — a bigger rise than expected. it will affect 1.4 million people on variable and tracker mortgages. it affects people renting if landlords decide to charge more to cover their costs. and, if it stays high for some time, it could also affect people whose fixed rate mortgages are coming to an end. our economics editor faisal islam is here. the rise was designed to drain spending powerfrom t

listen to it because that vessel and the version of the titan that he went in, he says stockton rush, dismantled it, and redesigned it, and came out with a new one. but again, he didn't have any information about who was testing that new vessel. >> it is amazing to learn that, we will see as these investigations continue. anderson, and we will turn more on that story and first we have breaking news tonight. >>> there are troubling developments happening in russia, which had been playing out in seemingly escalating throughout the day today, tonight as you can see there are armored vehicles on the streets of moscow, security had been tightened and the white house we were told is monitoring these developments closely. all of this happening after yevgeny prigozhin, who is the leader of the mercenary group known as the wagner grip accused him of russia's military of attacking his forces earlier. now russia's internal security agency had launched a criminal investigation and russian generals are accusing yevgeny prigozhin up trying to start a coup, as you might imagine given that this is r

stockton rush is a visionary who was trying to democratise the abyss. take humanity where it had never gone before. and it's an area of the world that is largely unexplored, and it is critical to the future of this planet and our efforts to combat climate change because lithium, all of these other elements, they are so important to our future. they are at the bottom of the ocean and we have to sort out how to access them without degrading the bottom of the ocean. that is the vision. that's what stockton was pursuing and he was using destinations like the titanic to captivate interest, to get people fascinated by going into the abyss. and that is what is going on here. it is not a tourist, it's not as simple as saying it is a tourist sub. i deeply resent that. around the world and across the uk. this is bbc news. six year 0rne whiteman was hit by a car whilst playing close to his home in wakefield in 2011. , to his home in wakefield in 2011. y ., a, , 2011. somebody came to alert us of what had _ 2011. somebody came to alert us of what had happened. _ 20

a few days later, oceangate's stockton rush replied... he told rob mccallum...t day, rob mccallum replied in the starkest terms... oceangate's lawyers then contacted rob mccallum and threatened legal action. today, we've contacted them again and they say they have no additional information. rob mccallum maintains that no—one should have gone in this submersible. no—one should have gone let's get more on this from carl nasman, our correspondent in boston, where the search was coordinated. over to you, carl. family members today have — over to you, carl. family members today have called _ over to you, carl. family members today have called for _ over to you, carl. family members today have called for a _ over to you, carl. family members today have called for a full - today have called for a full investigation into exactly what happened on that titan submersible post up these are family members of one of the british passengers on board. meanwhile, today, recovery efforts continue. about 900 miles from a rear sending efforts continue. about 900 miles from a rearsen

can you explain what you mean by that and what stockton rush's response was to that email? >> well, so i mean we were actually staying in the same house in marsh harbor in the bahamas during this trip and i took a lot of time to kind of digest the whole experience and send him an email specifically because i didn't want there to be any kind of heated exchange between us. he's not the kind of character that would take criticism very well or -- i wanted to have him have something that he could refer back to and that he could not just start an argument that he would have to read it. and he did not respond in writing. we spoke about it. but we did not speak about it at length but he did take measures. he extended the -- he canceled that year's dives. and he took that carbon fiber too and cut it up, found the defects and made a new one at the cost i believe of well over a million dollars. he was making these tubes out of the exact same material that boeing is making airplanes out of. i think he got the material from bowing or the same supplier. he had an over 20 year background

this morning former oceangate ceo stockton rush and his ill- fated titan submersible facing intense scrutinyho parish in the titan, had a reputation as a visionary, but also a self proclaimed rule breaker. [ clip playing ] >> i think it was general macarthur who said you are remembered for the rules you break. i have broken some rules to make this. >> reporter: the cofounders says he had complete faith in rush and would've gone on the expedition himself if he had the chance. >> there is always a risk of catastrophic implosion. it is something that we know about. it is something that we plan for , plan against. it is just a known risk. >> reporter: this subcontractor says the experimental design pass testing for the pressures that will be found at the depth of titanic. >> the question is if you repeatedly what happens? these are the sorts of questions that if you have a long research and development program you start answering, what if you really are pushing the envelope, there is no time. you are answering those questions in real time. >> reporter: will coning who chairs the marine technolog

wendy married stockton rush in 1986, according to a "new york times" wedding announcement. wendy with deep ties to the "titanic," now in a tragic twist of fate, her husband dies on an expedition to see the shipwreck. we have continuing coverage of this tragedy on our home page, nbcbayarea.com. watch more of the coast guard's news conference from today and read about the hesitation of one passenger who reportedly had before going on that ill-fated trip. >>> we'll move to san francisco where right now police are investigating a deadly shooting by one of their officers in the richmond district. the officer killed a man after that man allegedly killed a member of his own family and the family's dog. here's nbc bay area's sergio quintana. >> reporter: for much of the day, a police cruiser parked outside a home on 31st avenue in san francisco's richmond district. chalk marks could be seen on the sidewalk outside, part of the efforts by crime scene investigators to collect evidence. the people who live at this home are effie's next-door neighbors. >> it's really a shame. it was a

did you ever convey to stockton rush safety concerns? i mean, i know at one point jay you talked about a friend of shawns worried about things like a squid hitting it and he dismissed those concerns but did you talk to him about your serious structural issues and worries that you had? >> yeah. he came out to las vegas in march to see me. we met a couple of times in person but the march 1st he came out and took me through the titanic exhibition and then we had lunch after. we talked about the expedition that he wanted to go on and they we talked about the safety concerns and i think he had so much passion for the project that he was blinded by it. he was not objective and didn't look at things that i saw and others saw that were problematic because it did not fit his narrative. it's unfortunate. >> it's tragic and shawn i began by saying you and your dad are the kinds of people who would consider something like this. you're already in a small group of people who find this to be something that could install curiosity as opposed to, oh, rig

stockton rush replied? ?'rown tired of industry players who try to use a safety argument to stop innovation and new entrants from entering their small existing market. live now to our correspondent in boston, carl nasman. us and have announced that they are doing investigations into what happened. can you tell us what they will be doing? earlier, we heard from relatives from one person on the vessel, hamish harding, they will be two investigations on the us side. the us national transformation safety board said they will be investigating this incident which we believe will be led by the coastguard. the canadian transport board said they will be looking into this and that they will be launching a probe and they will be conducting interviews on the ground in newfoundland where all the ships have been launched, the closest lan mast where the dive site is so we are expecting some investigations now. we aren't sure when they will wrap up but now there are some national bodies looking into this. as we've mentioned,

those lost include stockton rush, the founder and chief executive of oceangate expeditions, british businessmanh harding, french researcher and titanic expert paul—henri nargeolet, british—pakistani businessman shahzada dawood and his 19—year—old son, suleman. a number of families have begun to release statements remembering their loved ones and thanking the international community for their support. the dawood family, who lost two family members, wrote in a statement, quote: and the family of hamish harding also reacted to the news of the loss of their loved one, writing: now the search and rescue turn into a search and recovery as authorities attempt to investigate what led up to the tragedy. rear admiraljohn mauger confirmed in that press conference earlier that five parts of the vessel were found approximately 1,600ft from the bow let's get a reminder of how today unfolded. my colleague carl nasman has been with me in boston throughout the day. a piece of information that is new tonight, something cbs has been reporting. new tonight, something cbs has been reporting-— been reporting. they a

jay bloom from las vegas says for months stockton rush was trying sell him and his son 2 seats offeringknock $100,000 off the $250,00 price. when jay told him his son had safety concerns, rush responding, "i'm happy to have a video call with him. curious what the uninformed would say the danger is and whether it's real or imagined." >> he drank his own kool aid, he was passionate about it. it didn't come from a place of malice, it didn't come from a place of greed, he just had this vision, this belief, and he wanted the world to share it with him. >> reporter: he says those seats instead went to another father and son, shahzada dawood and 19-year-old suleman. shahzada's brother samad heartbroken, remembering his nephew. >> i think it's sad but also, his death also brought the world together. >> those heartbroken families tonight. gio benitez joining us once again. we now know the navy had detected a possible implosion on sunday, around the same time the sub lost contact. you're learning those families were given that information. >> reporter: that's right, whit. a defense official tells

neil: what an alarm sound or something gone off inside that certainly would have gotten stockton rush'sr how quickly it happened. i know the way it was designed to happen at least the way stockton explained it to me over the years was so that it creates a heat map for the pilot to look out. i've never dive didn't so i do not know how the pilot uses it. he may have been monitoring and as he went down. so maybe he saw something. but again i'm sure mr. cameron said several times by that point there is probably nothing anybody can do. implosion would have happened if it would've been over in a millisecond. neil: i do not mean to belabor the point. it's fair to say that he would be aware through session alarm or signal or something going off something was about to happen is that a fair to estimate? >> potentially which honestly as his friend makes me sad. the one thing in the sub community we talk about is if there is an implosion saving grace for the crew is the transfer process anything is wrong. if stockton was looking at the heat map and he did get some sort of he's the only where the cr

. >> real quickly, this is a quote from the ceo, stockton rush. i mean, if you really want to be safe, don't get out of bed, he said, this is what he told "the washington post." don't get in your car, don't do anything. at some point you're going to take some risk and it really is a risk/reward question. just how much that ceo and sub captain loved the thrill seeking that he was doing and sharing with so many others. emily. >> mike, i note that the lawsuit you mentioned earlier which a couple sued oceangate for fraud, the allegations, it focused on them not receiving a refund for a trip just like this one they would have taken, that they never got money back that they paid for it. among reasons given for it being postponed included equipment failure. of course, that suit remains to play out and we hope there's no correlation with the situation here. however, it does raise questions. one i have for you, mike, what are you hearing boots on ground with naval experts that might have hypotheses about what happened or what faced those five souls. >> tha

stockton rush was piloting the summer civil with disaster struck. with him on board was hamish harding, shahzada dawood and his 19-year-old son suleman dawood. and paul nargeolet, a renowned diver nickname "mr. titanic" who had completed some 35 dives on the famous ship. we just spoke to his stepson in the last hour. >> when he told me that he was going back out for this expedition when i saw him in may i honestly did not think twice. it is one of those things where he has been down so much. he has been on so many different deep dives i did not bat an eye. i just said okay. have fun. i will see you in july. >> we been following the search from the start. there are ships still out on scene and they will continue to look at the debris field. >> some of them. we saw one load up. it was the one carrying the submersible that found the wreckage. other ships like the prince, for instance, it is on his way back. the medical ships on the way back. the prince is the mothership, it is the ship that launched the tightend. it is the platform that goes in first.

and it was my honor, my pleasure to work with stockton rush and the crew.rade. but it made sense to me that that particular engineering choice may lead to some trouble down the road. >> did you or anyone else at the company raise concerns about the integrity of carbon fiber? and i'm wondering, if so, what was the reaction? >> well, so, when you're developing something like this, there's a lot of people who have the engineering prowess to speak in to various aspects of a build like this. and material scientists, material experts, subject matter experts, would raise concerns. and then there would be steps by oceangate to mitigate those concerns. and really, whenever you start a project like this and you make some initial choices, just one thing builds on another. so, there was a definite reason to pick carbon fiber. but, yeah, it may not be the right material. >> yeah. i appreciate your time tonight. thank you very much. i'm joined now by someone who's been with us this week and knew hamish harding and stockton rush well, who was involved with two missions in

deep sea specialist rob mccallum told 0ceangate ceo stockton rush that clients could be at risk.ependent body. in an e—mail sent in 2018, maccallum warned rush that �*i have given everyone the same honest advice which is that until a sub is classed, tested and proven it should not be used for commercial deep dive operations. he went on "as much as i appreciate entrepreneurship and innovation, you are potentially putting an entire industry at risk." "so i implore you to take every care in your testing and sea trials and to be very, very conservative.�* stockton rush replied: �*i have grown tired of industry players who try to use a safety argument to stop innovation and new entrants from entering their small existing market. earlier my colleague sumi somaskanda spoke to our correspondent carl nasman who's on the scene in boston. great to see you. first of all, the us and canada have announced they are launching investigations into what happened, tell us more about what they will be examining. earlier of course we heard from relatives of one of the people on that vessel, hamish har

we do know that the ceo of the company 0ceangate, stockton rush, was on board the vessel and believedr other crew members are passengers, three of them are british citizens. two of them are related, shahzada dawood and his son, a 48—year—old man and his 19—year—old son, they were confirmed to be on that vessel. as well as hamish harding, a famous explorer who has spent plenty of time at the bottom of the ocean and has also been into space, very experienced adventurer, also a french explorer as well that they call mr titanic, explorer as well that they call mrtitanic, he explorer as well that they call mr titanic, he was one of these titanic enthusiasts, one of the people who has spent the most time viewing the actual wreckage so if you think about this group of people, fairly experienced adventures of people, potentially used to taking risks. so this is the group we know is inside the vessel. . ~' , ., group we know is inside the vessel. ., ~ , ., group we know is inside the vessel. . ~' . group we know is inside the vessel. ., ~ . ., vessel. thank you so much for that undate- _ 0ur n

also on board are the us captain, stockton rush, - exploration.rd are the j us captain, stockton rush, and an experienced french navy diver, paul—henri nargeolet, who experts say would know what to do to be found. ., ., ., , ., ., found. protocol for trying to alert searchin: found. protocol for trying to alert searching forces, _ found. protocol for trying to alert searching forces, in _ found. protocol for trying to alert searching forces, in the - found. protocol for trying to alert searching forces, in the navy - searching forces, in the navy anyway, on the hour and a half hour, you bang like hell for three minutes. you bang like hell for three minutes— you bang like hell for three minutes. ., ., , ., , minutes. the titan has no escape hatch and its _ minutes. the titan has no escape hatch and its occupants _ minutes. the titan has no escape hatch and its occupants are - minutes. the titan has no escape | hatch and its occupants are bolted in, so even if it has managed to surface, finding it within the time limit is critical. if they are still

i mean, look, stockton rush is a princeton trained aerospace engineer.ce adviser also died in the sub, one of the most dived titanic veterans in the world. he had captained five different titanic submersibles and he approved the structure. he wouldn't have gone on if there was something wrong with it. as i mentioned, the crew had this really conservative safety record, so yes, it's horrible. and yes, i'm sure we'll find out that mistakes were made, but it wasn't like the guy made a lego box and threw it in the water. >> understood, david. thank you so much for the story you did and for explaining what your experiences were like there. and defending the ceo of oceangate. i appreciate you coming on. >> thank you. >>> all right, kate. >> minutes from now, traffic will be flowing once again where i-95 collapsed in philadelphia just two weeks ago. but the thing about it is, this is just a temporary fix. danny freeman has more on this from philadelphia. he's joining us now. danny, are people surprised how quickly they have been able to reopen the flow of traff

here is stockton rush in a documentary showing how the sub was operated via a games console.that it is very dangerous down there. the sub was towed out to newfoundland before arriving at the site on sunday. it began its diving coordination with the mother ship, the polar prince. below 1000m, the sub will be in darkness. 3800 metres under the north atlantic, the titanic. the us coastguard has told us that they weren't notified about the missing vessel until around eight hours after that initial loss of contact between the sub and its mother ship. a loss and communication has happened on these expeditions before, but never like this or for so long. mike rees is one of the few people who have made the trip before. he describes reaching the bottom of the ocean.— before. he describes reaching the bottom of the ocean. when you touch bottom, bottom of the ocean. when you touch bottom. you — bottom of the ocean. when you touch bottom. you don't — bottom of the ocean. when you touch bottom, you don't really _ bottom of the ocean. when you touch bottom, you don't really know- bottom, y

>> yes. >> he says he spoke to stockton rush, and voice those concerns. >> we agreed to disagree.ay have been preventable if the vehicle had been certified. >> in a 2019 blog post, oceangate defended the company's decision, saying certifying titan could take years and stifle innovation. and while they use those standards as a benchmark in the past, quote, by itself classing is not sufficient to ensure safety. >> plexiglass. >> rush, who's one of the missing crew, has touted his maverick approach to innovation. >> you know, i've broken some rules don't make this. i've broken them with logic and good engineering by me, carbon fiber titanium, there is a reason you don't do that, well, i did. it's picking the rules that you break that we'll add values to others and society. >> but that approach drew criticism from some of the zones staff. cnn has learned two former oceangate employees, neither of whom are engineers, raised safety concerns when titan was built. and a counter lawsuit, one claimed oceangate hadn't performed adequate testing on the titan's hold to check it structure, and

>> i've known stockton rush since he was very young.ing me out at various times about his dream to go down to the "titanic." and obviously he was following his dream. and it led to a nightmare. >> exploration is always risky. climbing a mountain is risky. and people will take those chances. but i think you mitigate that risk as assiduously as possible, with every fiber of your being. and you engineer against it to the extent humanly possible. and for me personally, that's part of the attraction. >> reporter: bob, you once said visiting the "titanic" is like dancing on someone's grave. what's the like down there? >> well, you know, it's the deep sea, it's an amazing place. but what's really amazing about it is, you can't see very far. and i can remember when we came in on the "titanic" for the first time, it was less than 30, 40 feet away. we came in, a beam of the bridge, there was like a giant wall of steel. so it's very intimate in that regard. but it's very unforgiving. you can't see pressure. >> the first time i went there, i felt l

. >> rhonda, you went on a previous expedition with ocean gate, this company, and stockton rush, who is now one of the deceased but who was the ceo behind ocean gate. what were your impressions? there's so many questions now about whether corners were cut, et cetera. what were your impressions? >> i went on a different expedition. it was an earlier version of this sub called cyclops and on the andradoria wreck which was 250 feet, which is a vast defense than 12,500 feet, and my job was the rov pilot and i brought redundant systems, redundant parts. my job was in case something happened with that system, i could put rovs in the water and assist in a search and rescue operation. that was a much different project and i felt there was a lot of redundancy in that, a plan in case something happened. in this situation it's much, much different. it's a different system and we're talking about a considerably deeper depth. >> i want to play something stockton rush said in 2021 about the materials that he was using, plexiglass, acrylic, and why he felt confident about it. >> it's acrylic, plexi

. >> reporter: that is stockton rush, founder of oceangate, in a 2018 interview. >> people enter and exit through the dome. >> reporter: the vessel is designed to carry five people to a depth of 12,000 feet, where the remains of the titanic can be seen in just-released, 3-d video. the oceangate vessel was reported overdue and out of contact last night, about 435 miles south of newfoundland , and is now down to perhaps 70 hours of onboard life-support left. one billionaire verified up or the craft had said, due to the worst weather in newfoundland, in 40 years, this mission is likely to be the first and only manned mission to the titanic in 2023. >> reporter: icy weather and high-speed claimed the titanic on its legendary maiden voyage across the atlantic in 1912. 1500 people lost their lives, when it sank. now, both oceangate and government agencies have perhaps 2 1/2 desperate days to prevent the legendary site from claiming five more lives. >> the founder of oceangate, stockton rush, seen in that story, is believed to be aboard a submersible. the five people on board may have only

an investor in - oceangate who made the same trip told the bbc that stockton rush did anything wrongas doing something far beyond what anybody else had. the sub that he built was taking down there was a magnitude more advanced and you look at the craft that james cameron took down. there is a tiny little sub that one person laying flat and could operate in introducing new ideas and new pieces that are not conventional and some people do not like that. ~ :, :, :, , like that. with more on the latest in boston. _ like that. with more on the latest in boston. l'm — like that. with more on the latest in boston, i'mjoined _ like that. with more on the latest in boston, i'mjoined by - like that. with more on the latest in boston, i'mjoined by my- in boston, i'm joined by my correspondent and tell us the latest from where you are and what is happening now. the from where you are and what is happening now— from where you are and what is happening now. from where you are and what is ha enin: now. , , ,:, :, happening now. the biggest point of reference as — happening now. the biggest point of

i never thought of him as a daredevil in any sense. >> reporter: stockton rush's rush to the tay tannicw york times" reports rush's wife wendy is a great-granddaughter of the one of the passengers on the titanic. >> back in 1912. brian todd, thank you very much. joining me now someone who knew several people who died aboard the titan. aaron newman is an investor in oceangate. and he's been a passenger on the titan submersible himself. aaron, thank you so much for joining us. our condolences to you. we know you knew several people onboard. here you are in this photo in front of the titan along with the ceo of oceangate stockton rush. how are you remembering your friends and colleagues today? >> well, it was a group of explorers and stockton was a visionary. here is a man who -- he had a vision of exploring the bottom of the ocean, and he had a passion and we don't know much about what's going on down there, and we really need to, and he was pushing the limits and making it happen. he had a vision, and he -- you know, few other people could do it, and he did it. so he was a hero of mine a