let's zero on what's behind trump's appeal-- and what's changed about the electorate-- with: stuart stevensa consultant and served as mitt romney's chief political strategist in the 2012 election. mckay coppins is a senior writer for buzzfeed news who has covered trump closely; he's the author of a book on the republican party's efforts to take back the white house called "the wilderness." and kathleen hall jameison is professor of communications and director of the annenberg public policy center at the university of pennsylvania. kathleen hall jameison, how much has donald trump exploded politics as usual? >> donald trump has changed the way we talk about politics, the kinds of things that are covered in news, and the ways in which politicians gain access. essentially, his free air time is what anybody else in an earlier campaign would have paid for and called advertising. >> ifill: mckay coppins, has he changed inherently the way the g.o.p. is formulated, the way it functions, the kinds of candidates it will nominate in the future? >> i think he's exploited a shift in the g.o.p. over the

joining me now is stuart stevens, founding partner at strategic partners and media and author of "the innocent have nothing to fear" which focuses in part on this very issue, a possibility of a contested convention. stuart, good to see you. so what do you make of sabato's take, that he does not believe that trump can secure this thing prior to the convention? >> i'm betti-- betting against is a bad bet. i think he's probably right. you know, i don't that complicated. people have thought about what the rules would be for a convention before, which is why we have all these rules. i think we ought to look at the rules, we ought to stick to the rules. i don't think we ought to do any fancy shenanigans to change the rules. but i don't see why these other candidates would get out if donald trump hasn't reached the number he needs to get to. >> they're putting their money, cruz and kasich, on the second ballot. it goes to the convention, the first ballot is taken. no one has enough to get a majority. then all hell breaks loose on the second ballot. delegates are freed up and then it's anybod

we're back with stuart stevens for more on this. also joined by eugene robinson. stuart, whenever i read your stuff you do your homework and the math. and none of us know how to do math around here. i was quite struck by that. i did not realize that mitt romney got a larger percentage of the white vote than ronald reagan got. what else don't republicans know about the math of the white vote and winning national elections? >> well, i think one of the myths out there is just a lot of white voters weren't motivated as they were for ronald reagan, when in fact a higher percentage for white voters not only voted for mitt romney, but a higher percentage turned out for mitt romney. look, this is what i call the lost tribes of the amazon theory. if we go up the river far enough, they will come to the edge and vote for us. they're not there. the country's changing and you have to build a party that will be able to get a coalition of white and non-white voters. mitt romney was able to get 17% non-white voters. to win consistently you're going to have to get that up to north

and mitt romney's campaign strategist stuart stevens. gloria, more than 24 hours into romney's war against trump. any sign that it's having any kind of an impact? >> not yet, no. we're not sure that it ever will. i think that even when i spoke with romney today, he was completely open and completely understands the possibility that what he said yesterday could incite trump supporters to run into his arms even more. and, you know, he understands that. i think what he was trying to do was just kind of, you know, throw something into the race that would kind of rumble it up a little bit. and so more people are speaking out. more people on edge. will it do anything to these trump supporters? i don't think so. i think they've been solid and they've been there. but it sure puts more wind behind marco rubio, ted cruz and john kasich for a little bit. >> you have donald trump reversing a position he seld less than 24 hours ago and has held now for quite a while about killing terrorist families which most scholars say that's an illegal order to t

stuart stevens said, trump is a -quote-- "dangerous person," who would stevens says he doesn't want clinton to be president... and vote. to back trump. interview-- trump has mocked stevens on twitter... saying he -quote-- "led romney down the tubes in what should have been an easy victory," and "has terrible political instincts." your final headline comes from "dallas news." it reads-- "dallas republicans scramble for more ballots as gop voter turnout 'through the roof'" many texas republicans found themselves in long lines yesterday, waiting to vote. so many people showed up... that some polling locations ran out of ballots. meanwhile-- democrats didn't seem to have the the chairman of the "dallas county 180-thousand ballots... which would have been enough, for 20-12. but this year, the department ended up printing about 6- thousand extra copies. a debate is underway in tallahassee over handles alimony payments. find out why some lawmakers want to change the rules.... and why others say doing so will hurt women. some people don't like to share their wifi, but at bright house networks, we d

you have interviewed is in weber and stuart stevens.y cannot bring themselves to embrace donald trump. an independent candidate is a real pipe dream. it is a home? i don't know. 1980e really did think in that reagan was not as qualified as george bush. they didn't think reagan would be a disastrous president. it really is a seachange. reince primus got his wish. we have an early nominee. it could be a bit bizarre. there will be a lot of politicians who won't have to go. mark: up next, a former spokesperson for jeb bush's campaign. his new position in life. it involves trying to stop republican donald trump. you can listen to this program on the radio in washington. 99.1 fm. ♪ mark: our guest is tim miller. former communications director for jeb bush. he gets a new job. working for our principles p purpose is trying to stop the from being nominated. donald trump from being the nominee. tim: you need to be on the side of what is right and good. stopping him from being the president is certainly that. because hillary clinton would wipe the

stuart stevens. he ran one of the worst campaigns in the history of modern politics.nd hit ran probably was the worst one because most people thought that the republican candidate would win. so when hit started raising his head a few months ago, i very strong. i said mitt romney should not run. he is a choke artist and i said it very strongly. and then jeb bush actually convinced hit not to run. can you imagine jeb, jeb told him. jeb, he is a good salesman. jeb is a good salesman. he's a high-energy salesman. but hit was afraid of jeb because he was afraid that jeb would get the money and jeb would get whatever. i wasn't afraid. i wasn't afraid of jeb. i can tell you that. jeb bush convinced hit not to run. this was going to be a third one. second a great catastrophe. and what happened was he went to see jeb and jeb had him convinced he has the money and hit chickened out. i'll tell you the real reason he chickened out, it was me. if you remember hit was all set to run. i know this from people that are close to him and i think he has a desire maybe at the convention t

stuart stevens. he ran one of the worst campaigns in the history of modern politics. worstan, probably, the one because most people thought that the republican candidate would win. so when mitt started raising his head a few months ago, i very strong. i said mitt romney should not run. he is a choke artist, and i said it very strongly. and then jeb bush actually convinced mitt not to run. can you imagine jeb, jeb told him. jeb, he is a good salesman. jeb is a good salesman. he's a high-energy salesman. mitt was afraid of jeb because he was afraid that jeb would get the money and jeb would get whatever. i wasn't afraid. i wasn't afraid of jeb. i can tell you that. jeb bush convinced mitt not to run. this was going to be a third one. second a great catastrophe. and what happened was he went to see jeb and jeb had him convinced, that he is going to run, he has the money, and mitt chickened out. i'll tell you the real reason he chickened out, it was me. was allemember, mitt set to run. i think he probably still has a desire, maybe at the convention, to get something. hill

ben weber andd stuart stevens, they think he is -- they cannot bring themselves to embrace and -- and unqualified person. independentor an candidate, that is a real pipedream. if they just sit it out and go home to cleveland, i don't know. people really did think in 1980 , bush people really felt reagan was not qualified as george bush. they got regular be a disaster as president, unqualified. it really is a seachange. mark: could we see rents primas in -- al hunt: they will be a convention, it will be fun to watch. but i thinkbizarre, there will be a lot of politicians who will have to go. we are talking about lamar alexander, who is different from your run-of-the-mill -- mark: thank you. i was kidding when i said rinse pre-miss. he is normal. up next, a former spokesperson for jeb bush's campaign. he is here to talk about his new position in life, which is kind of sort of like his old job, trying to stop donald trump from becoming the republican nominee. you can listen to this program on the radio in washington. 99.1 fm. ♪ ♪ mark: it is miller time, time to introduce our next guest,

but first, the man under fire, stuart stevens joins us. great to see you.o i want to get your reaction to last night's debate first. >> listen, i thought it was a great night for hillary clinton, and a disaster for republicans. donald trump has this unique ability to degrade everything he touches. for the first time we saw someone out there as a presidential candidate defending his penis and attacking the constitution. that's going to attract vote sners on sunday, he had to research the kkk. thursday, he's saying he will order the united states military to commit war crimes, because they'll do what he says. now he walks it back. i mean, this is just someone who, every day, shows in different ways why he's unfit to be president of the united states. and why he's not a conservative and doesn't believe in the constitution. >> what did you -- what do you think was the purpose of what mitt romney did yesterday? >> oh, i think it's clear. you have to stand up to donald trump, and you have to stand up for your principles. if you're just quiet now, when you have so

and with us is romney 2012 campaign strategist stuart stevens. you obviously have been very much against donald trump for a long period of time. very outspoken on this. where is your head at in terms of what's going to happen over the next couple of months and what an open convention might actually achieve. >> well, i have to take back everything i said about donald trump not bringing people together. if he can bring lindsey graham and ted cruz together, we're clearly close to the rapture here. should get on that palestinian problem next. look, i wrote a novel that's coming out in june about a brokered convention. i didn't think it would actually happen. i would have written it more carefully. i think it's going to be more likely than not that no one is going to get to 1,237. i agree with speaker ryan, this idea that somebody would come in from outside seems like a moment from another era. it will be someone who is running, i would think. but this idea, people have actually thought about this before. there's a lot of rules here of what you're goi

stuart stevens and steve schmidt. gentlemen, welcome to you both. stu, prior to last tuesday, you wrote there was still time to stop trump. do you still believe that a week later? >> sure. 40% of the people haven't voted. we got upset in 2000 when they closed the polls in florida, they announced it when the panhandle was still open, 40% was still out there. i think it's going to be difficult for anybody else than donald trump to get to 1237. but there's credible scenarios out there, 40% of the oat vote out there that you could easily have donald trump with 1,000 votes, and ted cruz with 950. we've done this before. this is the ronald reagan strategy in 1976, against a sitting republican president. to do this would be to rally around ted cruz. and that seems to be something that washington republicans can't bring themselves to do. >> well, look. ted cruz is exactly right, a vote at this point for john kasich is in fact a vote for donald trump. >> why isn't the cavalry rallying behind cruz? delegates. if he gets there, he'll be nominated on the first

. >> let me ask stuart stevens that. you have been to the question of where were people earlier. you have been out there early on talking against donald trump for quite some time on twitter a lot. and on television as donald trump pointed out. how do you see this working out in any way that donald trump does not get the nomination? what happens at the convention? i assume that's the only place where something can happen at this stage. >> yeah, look, i think the reason governor romney hadn't spoken out before is you'd expect the candidates to be carrying this message. frankly, i don't think they've been doing as effective a job as they should have. the first time in the debate it was the last debate when senator rubio really challenged donald trump. and i think that that's the right way to go. it should have happened much sooner. this is very simple. it's just a numbers game. he has to get 1,237 delegates to be the nominee. if he doesn't get those delegates and it goes to a second ballot, there's other options. i think that probably someone else in the race now could emerge as a w

but stuart stevens who worked on the romney campaign said yesterday regarding chicago and donald trumpvest the republican party is putting on and donald trump is pulling the cord. there is no question. that is not a liberal, that is not a progressive. that is a republican who said those comments about his party. >> yeah, there are a number of republicans who have come out and started to make that very same case. i think there's a real crisis that we're seeing right now, tamron. the republican party absolutely is on the verge of a crisis. it's very likely that donald trump is going to be the nominee of this party. he's going in very strongly in florida and ohio right now in the polling. i think governor kasich is still pretty much behind in ohio. senator marco rubio very far behind in florida. his home state. so we are likely seeing a situation coming up on tuesday where trump wins both of those big states and is on a march to the nomination. he's not going to walk away with it. these other candidates are getting -- peeling off delegates elsewhere. the chances are that donald trump is g

stuart: the today show moments ago. one more point before we leave the financial markets. steven guilfoyle from the new york stock exchange, explaining why there has been such a little, such a small reaction on the markets. he says mindless mass murder of innocents is losing its shock value. ashley: that's a sad situation. in other words, folks are becoming numb to this. we did see in europe, the british pound drop, it's had impact. but so far on the u.s. markets. stuart: gold and oil at 41 a barrel liz: a muted reaction. stuart: we'll see that at the opening about 9:30. ashley: and reports there was an unexploded suicide vest at the airport and rifles, and a nuclear power plant being evacuated about 40 miles southwest of brussels, one of three in the country, close to german border. i would imagine that's a precaution, they had a fire at that particular power plant three months ago. we're hearing these things happen and precautions and as we've mentioned, the border pralle has been stepped up to the north and holland to the east in germany, to the west-southwest in france surrou

his campaign guy was terrible campaign manager, stuart stevens, always on television knocking everybody. the guy ran one of the worst campaigns in the history of the modern politics. mitt ran, probably worst-run most people have seen. most people thought that the republican candidate would win. so when mitt started raising his head a few month ago, i was very strong. i said, mitt romney should not run. he is a choke artist. i said it very strongly. i wanted to keep him in. then jeb bush actually convinced mitt not to run. can you imagine, jeb, jeb sold him. jeb, he is a good salesman. now that he is out, i say jeb is good salesman right? he is high-energy salesman. mitt was afraid of jeb, because he was afraid jeb would get the money and jeb would get the whatever. i was not afraid. i wasn't afraid of jeb, i can tell you that. what happened jeb bush convinced mitt not to run. mitt was going to run. it was going to be third attempt. second one being one of great catastrophes. first one just didn't happen that is okay but the second was a catastrophe. what happened is he went to see jeb h

stuart stevens. he ran one of the worst campaigns in the history of modern politics. ran, probably the worst one, because most people thought that the republican candidate would win. so when hit started raising his -- when mitt started raising his head a few months ago, i very strong. i said mitt romney should not run. he is a choke artist and i said it very strongly. and then jeb bush actually convinced mitt not to run. can you imagine jeb, jeb told him. jeb, he is a good salesman. jeb is a good salesman. he's a high-energy salesman. but, mitt was afraid of jeb because he was afraid that jeb would get the money and jeb would get whatever. i wasn't afraid. i wasn't afraid of jeb. i can tell you that. jeb bush convinced hit not to -- convinced mitt not to run. was going to run, a third attempt. the second was a great catastrophe. and what happened was he went to see jeb and jeb had him convinced he has the money and hit chickened out. i'll tell you the real reason he chickened out, it was me. if you remember, mitt was all set to run. i know this from people that are cl

stuart stevens has called donald trump's comportment at his rallies thuggery.to george wallace. a lot of people have. i have written about it. this is taking place inside your party. is this anything like something you want to see representing the gop in cleveland at your convention? >> joy, it's nothing short of sad when political discourse in the united states devolves to the point it has. there's violence. we see images of police turning fire hoses on protesters on both sides. and let's face it. these instances are occurring at donald trump rallies and donald trump has a responsibility to cool the rhetoric. he has an opportunity to be a leader, and to step up, and to ask americans on both sides to cool their jets. and unless and until -- >> you keep saying on both sides. the reality is, i really can't let you continue with that line of thought, because there is not a counterveiling example on the other side of this kind of behavior. this is happening at donald trump rallies. these are protester whose are getting in one case sucker pu h punched by someone don

stuart stevens. he's always on television knocking everybody.he worst campaigns in the history of modern politics. and mitt ran probably was the worst run that most people have seen because most people thought that the republican candidate would win. so when mitt started raising his head a few months ago, i was very strong. i said, mitt romney should not run. he's a choke artist and i said it very strongly. i wanted to keep him in, and then jeb bush actually convinced mitt not to run. can you imagine, jeb, jeb sold him. jeb, he is a good salesman. jeb is a good salesman. he's a high-energy salesman. but mitt was afraid of jeb because because he was afraid that jeb would get the money and jeb would get whatever. i wasn't afraid. i wasn't afraid of jeb. i can tell you that. so what happened is jesh bush convinced mitt not to run. mitt was going to run. it was going to be a third attempt. the second one being one of the great catastrophes. the first one didn't happen and that's ok but the second was a catastrophe but what happened s he went to see

with romney stuart stevens or neil newhouse.andidate, chief strategist, chief planner, and probably up until paul was hired, the chief delegate counter. >> ivanka seems to be the only other person who has a lot of weight in the campaign. in terms of organizing for new hampshire and iowa, unless he's thinking, look, what i have done has worked for me so well so far, why would i start going against my gut when my gut has got us virtually to the nomination. >> that is true. >> so maybe actually that star power will be what propels him the whole way and he'll chuck in organizers and get out the vote machines at the end. >>> let's go to the democratic side. >> who knows. >> not to judge. >>> bernie sanders went on yet another fund raising tear following three wins out west. the sanders campaign announced pulling in more than $4 million in the two days following the wins in hawaii, alaska and washington state. his top aides held a press call in which they emphasize there is still a path to the nomination. at one point senior adviser t

>> i'll quote stuart stevens who's a big trump critic but he says when it comes to the numbers, if you're it's like a recount, you're better going in with a lead. and i think there's math that is strong. there are a lot of arguments from the political class, from the stop trump movement, certainly cruz campaign which is not to be underestimated about how this could go down. at the end of the day, if you are up 75, 100, 125 delegates, you are going wiin with a mathematical edge. >> a couple developments. first of all, john kasich has a team out there working on this, too. also the report ing reporting o street journal" shows that in louisiana and georgia the cruz people have won delegates that should go to donald trump, will go to donald trump on the first ballot but in fact the people who are going are ted cruz supporters. so that's the underlying game so when you get to the convention in that 40 day period, the persuasion issues will come down to how successful you were over the next few weeks at the state convention. >> that's only for the second ballot if there is one. >> it's only for

stuart: wait a second, steven. >> go ahead. stuart: look, this has been going on for long time now.ump saying outrageous things and now is in this spousal spat with ted cruz. that's all we hear about. we don't hear about policy, we hear about this type of politics. and-- >> it's the media. stuart: it's not going down well in wisconsin. he might not win wisconsin. >> it's certainly all the media wants to talk about, but what mr. trump has been talking about in his campaign speeches all over the country, hour after hour are the issues and really, if you look at the republican party and the future of the g.o.p., there's three issues where the g.o.p. elites have got it wrong and have lost the voters. trade policy, immigration policy and foreign policy. what i mean by that is that on trade policy, they're pushing manufacturing jobs overseas. on immigration policy, they're replacing americans with foreign workers and on foreign policy, they're getting us involved in foreign wars that are making us less safe and costing us billions, hundreds of billions of dollars and that's what the trump