whether it was the cia, the cold war, what made him the trouble legion? >> it is a historical ks and unusual that agents come in various stripes the largest low-level people who decide for whatever reason and they're well-trained double agents who spent years behind enemy lines to cultivate information and these are the very special agents and our trouble agent is none of these. he came from a very al qaeda sympathetic background and the fletcher deutsch circumstances to become an informant for the cia being in al qaeda's camp so they played this game and made them a triple agent working for al qaeda the whole time for the united states. >> host: let's take a step back. each person who dealt with this, what did each person think they were getting from him before the deals were carried out in afghanistan? >> guest: the way he came to the agency to begin with was as a blocker for the g. hart website. he was a very radicalized smart young man who lived a fairly normal life in a modular and he decided to write this internet blog under an assumed name and did

a symbol of this new generation does come to the cia after 9/11. ey call himself the windows generation because they are very computer savvy and very capable and very skilled at doing the kinds of things that the cia excels at which is bringing in all kinds of different streams of information. all these communications, capabilities, and some of the human intelligence and bringing together that helps them go after particular targets. her job, she is called a target or. she would be essential assign a number of cases. here's some bad guys we need to go after. do whatever you need to do. draw whatever resources you need to draw on to try to help us figure who people are, where they will be and eventually put a missile on that person but this is not elizabeth hansen came up and how she happened to be a khost on this fateful day because she helped bring together intelligence that was hopefully going to lead the cia to go after a very important target, zawahiri himself. >> host: it's so striking. you describe in the book how both mike hayden, limp that hi

it recently enough the biggest victories when the cia working within the eisel team tracked osama bin laden to a safe house, identified him, rated the house and told the person who had been the top american most wanted fugitive for almost a decade but there's been failures along the way. my guest joby warrick has written a gripping narrative book about one of those setbacks in the war which was a triple agent, not a goebel agent who lead to the collette to the worst loss of life when he built up in afghanistan killing seven agents my guess what is joby warrick he's covered intelligence for the "washington post" and has been there for more years than he wants to mention. it's good to have you here. let's talk about the title of the book. history is had double agents whether it was in the cia or the cold war. >> guest: this is historical and unusual in the sense that agents and informants, and various stripes sometimes low level who decide for whatever reason decide to sell secrets or their knowledge to an intelligence agency sometimes well-trained double agents who spent years behind t

and so it was the cia's, and the -- that's partly the job of the cia, you know? they have to take the heat when things like this happen. and they, they, um, you know, it was, it was their baby, and bissell, it was the end of his career, certainly. he went and worked at a corporation in connecticut the rest of his life, and, um, it changed the lives of many people in the cia whose careers were basically -- not just the top three guys, but ended with that. kennedy's goal was he wanted to shatter the cia into a thousand pieces. he didn't do that, but he was certainly upset. can we have time for one more? let's do one more question here and then we'll -- >> just to ask you, does the book explore the issue of why alan dulles was in puerto rico, left to run probably one of the highest profile operations the cia had planned in many, many years to joe bissell who was -- >> richard bissell. >> richard business l, rather, who was an underling of his? is there any further delving into that in the book? >> yeah. it was an invitation that had been proved to dulles before, it w

john kennedy's was not thrilled by the cia's plan. his main concern was that the involvement of the united states would not be hidden enough. and if it were not, it could very well provoke castro's new friend the soviet union to take retaliatory action most likely in west berlin, a city that khrushchev who had been threatening to cut off the west. he did not want to get in a tit for tat. and since he ran for president criticizing eisenhower about castro he needed to do something. if he cancelled the plan he'd look like a hypocrite and if not he would look like a castro which is the last time he wanted to see. and there was talk that the cia misled kennedy about the essentials of the operation that they really tricked him into going ahead by misleading him, for example, about the chances of the cuban population rising up against castro. i don't think the cia was totally upfront. in fact, richard biffle later admitted that they sold too hard but i don't believe kennedy was fooled either. i think he knew more or less what he was getting i

the cia did an internal review. what lessons did they take away from that? what have they concluded from this about how they bungled this so badly? >> there's lots of anguish and grief because of the loss of these people. they did look back and find not just little things that went wrong, but systemic problems such as the failure to be attentive to counterintelligence, which is the handling of informants, to make sure you have experienced people in places. there has been a lot of soul searching and a lot of change because of this accident. >> warner: did anyone pay a price? >> you know, that's been a criticism of the cia, but its typical of the way they work. they try to keep their problems internal. this is an agency that doesn't like to be in the spotlight anymore than it has to be. in this case, it was deemed that mistakes were made by people who in this case weren't alive anymore. some commissions were set up, studies were made. no one was disciplined, as far as we can tell. but things, hopefully, have changed regardless of that. >> warner: joby warrick,

>> it's arguably the biggest intelligence disaster since the cold war for the cia. there hasn't been this many lives lost in a single incident since the 1980s, and in terms of just treachery and deceit, it's as big as it gets-- the cia led into a trap in which multiple officers, including seven americans, were killed. >> warner: so now, tell us about the perpetrator, the triple agent, humam al balawi. who was he? what drove him? how did he get into a position to pull off something like this? >> you probably cannot script a character as improbable as this man. first of all, he starts out as just being a lowly jordanian, a pediatrician, of all people, working in a refugee clinic in jordan, living a quite life, two children in the suburbs and that sort of thing. and through a series of improbable circumstances, ends up being arrested and interrogated, and then made into an informant with his own interest in doing so because, at heart, he was also an al qaeda sympathizer, and he was looking for a way to somehow strike out and do his own form of jihad. and this is exactly

people in the cia have flipped back and forth. came to the cbs from my reporting that he intended to do something from the very beginning. certainly not being a suicide bomber, but something to strike back at these people who oppressed him, arrested him, humiliated this way. >> rose: he went to pakistan.wh? >> he ends up disappearing in the wilds of the tribal area, this -- you know, what we call the fatah, the federal rated tribal area, and no one hears from him for several months. he came out of the blue and communicat with his handler, a jordanian, saying i managed to make contact with some very important people. so he started to peel off bits of information about people he was meeting, letting them know with drone strikes, what was working, who was getting killed. so this flow of information starting coming out of him that was quite impressive. that was just the start, because it became ev more impressive, singularly impressive the more it went on. >> rose: what happened to himwh? >> we know now because of his own accounts, he

so there you have it ladies and gentlemen who want to share the details about the cia's mistakes and flubs over the vent that changed this country forever it's a pretty big mistake so i guess it's understandable that they're going to do everything they can to try to keep it out of the spotlight but i have a hard time understanding why the cia is censoring this information most of which is already public but like everything else that we see these days under the obama administration it seems like everything leans more towards a censorship site rather than if we free flow of information now they argue that it's for the sake of protecting the people it is much more about protecting their image the cia the rest of our government what everyday americans to know about what happened in history the way that they want it remembered now the way that it really happened and according to the new york times that black banners is approaching a deadline unless something drastically changes soon the publishers will go forward with this book with all of the cia's editorial changes so i'm hopefully somet

well looks like the cia is at it again censoring a book for publishing unflattering information about the agency former cia agent a forty year old lebanese american writing a book called the black banners the inside story of nine eleven in the war against al qaeda and indeed his book so far and gives details on several different events like nine eleven and they include details about the cia amongst those details so on explains how the intelligence agency missed a chance to do rail the terrorist plot by withholding information from the f.b.i. about the two hijackers when they were living in san diego before the attack there's also information on our photo of one of the nine eleven hijackers are actually had been sent to the cia a year before the twin towers were attacked and the other also talks about their brutal interrogation techniques having them as counterproductive and unnecessary so we should know that this information has been disclosed in the past it's public whether it be congressional hearings where soup on tested by himself memoirs from other officials or even just national

the cia layed off -- laid off thousands of staff and closed many of it overseas stations. and so what ended up happening was that the fbi expanded it in ways that it was not originally set up to do, that it expanded overseas, over the course of the 1990s the cia closed 20 overseas stations, and the fbi opened 22. the fbi has become this huge tool of u.s. foreign policy chasing criminals overseas, chasing terrorists overseas in a way that i don't think that the american public really fully recognizes. >> host: in fact, a line from your book that i wrote down was the u.s. will never go to war without an fbi contingent. >> guest: and so after 9/11 you have fbi agents on the ground in afghanistan, in iraq that the fbi now has agents deployed in 80 countries overseas, most of them not in war zones, obviously, but that the fbi has grown this huge international presence such that the bureau now has an overseas force that's about a tenth of the size of the entire u.s. foreign service. >> host: 202-585-3885 is our phone number for you to join in the conversation as we talk about the

the cia isn't able to do gymnastics spying and the f.b.i. isn't able to do it without having profit probable cause and without having evidence of wrongdoing so it's very easy for the n.y.p.d. to get involved and become the boss crawlers and become the people that infiltrate the muslim community in search for terrorists so essentially they're spying on innocent people for absolutely no reason they're just suspecting that these people are terrorists just because they are muslims. which in my opinion is racial profiling and you're not only one to say so too we've seen a number of organizations that are already saying that this could be illegal there's profiling going on and they want to further investigation but here's the interesting part so the n y p d for starters is they're denying these claims that they have any of these rakers or these people to go to the mosques and the cia had a really interesting attitude about it i want to read you a quote here from a cia spokeswoman jennifer young but she said it should not be a surprise to anyone th

the cia began building its base there in 1955 with the u-2 spy plane because the cia wanted to spy on russia and see what they were doing, and one of the other men i enterer intiewed in -- interviewed in my book was harvey stockman who just passed a few months ago. ment men i interviewed with really in the last chapter of their lives, but herbie explained what it was like to be the first man to fly over the soviet union in a u-2, and yes, he agitated the russians greatly and there was fallout between the eisenhower administration and the soviets because of the spying going on, but at the same time what he brought back in the film canisters of his u-2 was over 400,000 square feet of film, of spy footage about what was going on in the soviet union, and as he said to me that the cia was able to learn and understand that, in fact, the soviets were not lining up for world war iii as many members of the air force wanted to believe. certainly, general lemay, a character in the book as well, you may call him an antagonist. when you consider the cia's job is to present intelligence to the pres

as a case to go to war the whole purpose of the cia was to leave those people out of langley that's why they're not in washington they're in northern virginia away from the white house away from congress leave them alone ask them what they think but don't tell them to rethink their positions because then you come up with nonsense like we saw did ministration have decided very early on that saddam should go and that in itself is not a bad. goal but of course everything depends on how you do it when how where with whom it's set or delay in decision in an action could leave to a massive and sudden harm it simply makes no sense to wait any longer to take action before it's too late we will not wait it was a rushed and are you was done i believe in three or four weeks which is really fast for that. it wasn't done earlier from what i understand because the bush administration didn't want such a document that had care of yachts that's why they never asked for a comprehensive national intelligence estimate within the intelligence community on this particular problem because they knew the intell

operative involved in the weapons of mass destruction business and to the cia i see you're going to stray she is a he be very typically the president vice president cabinet officers and the top of the white house there are ways. to get information on who it will go back to old time magazine it one of the information. that's against a statutory law that prohibits the. cia operative's what you're doing when you expose a cia officer on officer of any name you're basically taking their entire career and flushing it down the toilet also has the potential of placing that person in jeopardy because of their operations and their own operations and people that it wasn't really in jeopardy so to say very little act against the ambassador to try to hurt him i courteous lights that we're if not true physical but i've never seen a dirty trick could be. present a united states and in ministration who has come to office on a platform of restoring dignity and honor to the white house what they did was neither dignified gore was a terribly honorable nor was it germane to the is

bush ignore the cia. read for who flew down to crawford i mean they sent a special guide out across particular that famous memo that condi rice finally had to blur the name out before congress you know determine a strike inside the united states and then after he got the memo he was scheduled to go back to d.c. but instead he extended his vacation for a couple weeks nothing happened and then he went longest presidential vacation history back to george washington and then he went to his brother's state of florida rather than going back to d.c. and jeb knocked down the entire state. it makes one wonder if bush was just like waiting for something awful happened maybe didn't know what it was i'm not trying to play you know the nine eleven conspiracy theorist here but. what was going on with that well i think all the investigations will show for move the nine eleven commission the congressional investigations they're going to a lot of investigations of this is that the bush administration just from terrorism wa

they wanted to believe that there was a connection but the cia was sitting there the f.b.i. was sitting there i was sitting there saying we've looked at this issue for year for years we've looked for a connection let's there's no connection saddam was in. or he was a terrible feeling yes but he was not willing to sacrifice his own life. just as he answers terrorists as completely antithetical to using al-qaeda has had total contempt for saddam hussein himself he's been a socialist he's been very harsh he's treated islamic leaders aslan misleaders extremely archly rock and we have come very good intelligence on this was not heart of the picture of terrorism before we invaded saddam hussein and bin laden were enemies and ladan considered and said that saddam hussein was the socialist infidel these were very different kinds of individuals competing for power in their own way and saddam hussein made very sure that al qaida couldn't function. in iraq that terrorists couldn't function except for the small northeastern quadrant of the country where there was an extremist group that

near the first decade anniversary of the nine eleven attacks the shocking new allegation leveled at the cia by one of the nation's chief terrorism experts is it possible that the government knew more about the nine eleven hijackers than the flooding on the while japan is not out of the danger zone in fact the nuclear crisis is getting worse and worse we've recently learned from japan if the amount of radiation released was more than twenty times that of the ferocious obama and now looks that they may be experiencing the early stages of a total china syndrome melt down and is the united states in danger to finally ideally take on the next corporate personhood battle brewing in america should you back of companies have free speech rights to lie about the safety of cigarettes. is there something the government isn't telling us about nine eleven or the tenth anniversary of the nine eleven attacks just around the corner richard clarke the former white house counterterrorism czar under both presidents bill clinton and george w. bush unveiled some shocking allegations about the cia soon to be rele

really want the help of the new york police department because i believe as it was worded the cias mostly white, but they found diversity within the new york police department and used people that are described as rakers to do their work. what were these new york police officers doing? >> right. so the cia sent a senior officer to -- to help the nypd after 9/11, and, you know, this new intelligence division at the nypd, one of the programs they created informally became known as the demographics unit, and they had these people called rakers who were essentially undercover officers of ethnic descent who could go into minority community and just blend in and hang out, and the idea is they were going to look for hot spots. a hot spot could be something like this is where you could buy explosives, and that's something certainly that the police department is going to want to know about, but hot spots could also be people or bookstores or places, you know, where somebody was in a bookstore looking at radical writings or somebody was in the internet cafe and maybe was searching for radic

starting in 1957, he developed stealth technology for the cia at area 51. e reason he could talk about it was because the cia had declassified that program. the men can discuss their programs that have been declassified but they're not supposed to say it is area 51. but i interviewed 74 men with access to the base. the word area 51 becomes part of the spoken language. that is what is called. tavis: wise to call the area 51? >> that is subject to debate. i believe it is called that because of the first project that went on out there in 1951. the neighbor is called the nevada test site. that is divided up into a bunch of quadrants starting with area one going up to area 30 giver take some missing quadra is. then there is no law 40. 52 is where the stealth bomber was tested in the 1980's. tavis: what is basically happening out there? what are they doing? >> now, again, everything is speculative because everything that happens is very classified. the suggestions are that the drones that are being used in the war on terror are being built out there. osama bin lad

in their battle with the cia over torture takes this big three says a lot about the beautiful system right here in the u.s. and then is the g.o.p. a little confused about what their foreign policy should be over the twenty four presidential candidates the same old war hawks are going to dive into that topic in just a moment. but you know sometimes you see a story and the scene so foolishly you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else here's you some of the part of it and realized everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm sorry look at the big picture. and yet though. we are right. well. we never said there were safe brad. friedel. so sad reality in the us of the cia is simply allowed to ignore the law when it doesn't fit their agenda and that's exactly what happened when a.c.l.u. took their case against the us intelligence agency to new york that court back in november we first told you about the disgusting practice for the cia destroyed video evidence of operatives allegedly torturing or captives ninety two tapes that showed intelligence officials torturi

in their battle with the cia over torture tapes but this victory says a lot about the musical system right here in the u.s. and then is the g.o.p. a little confused about what their foreign policy should be or are the top twelve presidential candidates the same old war hawks are going to dive into that topic in just a moment. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so. you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and here's some other part of it and realize that everything you thought you knew you don't. charge is a big. deal . and you know. fuck fuck fuck. fuck. it. let's get it we started right. i think. well. we're never going to says they're safe get ready because their freedom. so sad reality in the u.s. that the cia is simply allowed to ignore the law when it doesn't fit their agenda and that's exactly what happened on a.c.l.u. took their case against the u.s. intelligence agency to a new york federal court back in november we first told you about a disgusting practice where the cia destroyed video evidence of operatives allegedly torturing or captive

so pretty direct statement from the cia in one thousand nine hundred four and you know when they put these documents together. these sort of analytical documents these are summaries of raw intelligence that they gather from different sources for the postseason for the movies which. is to shift north of the green to the reasons of the government that are free from bush who feel good. if you go to the cia through the you they knew about these activities they knew they were happening to you about links to paramilitary groups and yet. u.s. aid continued to flow. quotas were reached. i mean the fact that it has it is hard to. refute you should assume it's going to skim it would should be we'll. put it to the resources we would want to go to also understand by the richard cologne on the score of the disease but. the wealthier of the ship were a. good ship moved on she wouldn't leave the country on the loop with. close rules that period thirty. two inches away the first measurable. to the health who would not get included and children the whole little girl would begin to build. this is the t

he ran the cia war against the russians in afghanistan. he was the one that was in charge of the smuggling in the arms. one of howard's most remark many stories was when she was in iraq when he took over, the guard found him shortly after he was paying off a double agent in the secret police and started to stalk him to death. the two guys. they were well on the way when howard pulled out a gun and killed them both. he made his way back, didn't complain about his injuries, because he wanted to stay on the job. eventually got out and when he got out back to america, he looked at him and said the only time i've seen internal injuries this bad were in head on car wrecks and they were dead. he lives now in incredible amounts of pain. he's a very, very brave man. but in any event, involved in helping me get things right. >> among the people you credit, leon panetta, william cohen. >> one of my best friends. >> if you were to read the list before you read the book, you would think you were very well checked, shall we say, and might even have, you

so pretty direct statement from the cia in one thousand nine hundred four and you know where they put these documents together. these sort of analytical documents these are summaries of raw intelligence that they gather from different sources for the postseason for the movies. is to shift move through the training to the regime to the girls that are free from bush who feel good. if you go to the cia through your they knew about these activities they knew they were happening to you about links to paramilitary groups and yet. u.s. aid continued to flow. closer rich countries i mean the fact that it has it is hard to. refute you should assume it's going to which it would should be will. put it to the resources really want to go to so i understand by the richard kuhn on this group as you mentioned but. the will say the earth or the ship are worried that if. it's moved on she would leave the country on the ludeman and close to the world that period for us. to reach is the way to the fullest miserable. to have police move but not good could and shows you the whole little girl a little bit o

>> it not only changed the way it did business, it created a very deep connection with the cia. uslim communities in ways that if the federal government did it would totally go against rules that have been set up to protect civil liberties and they did it with this unusual partnership with the cia. a very senior cia officer was dispatched by cia director george tenet to be his personal representative to the nypd and really helped create these intelligence-gathering programs, directed the intelligence gathering, supervised the intelligence gathering and that's relationship that continues today. recently the cia sent one of its most senior undercover officers to work out of one police plaza in new york as a covert officer. >> so, we're talking about former cia agents now working within the new york police department, traveling -- >> they're current cia officers. >> on the cia payroll, working with the new york police department, traveling abroad and using intelligence to work in conjunction with the nypd. we should point out the new york police department has put out a statement sa

did have and the civil are but thank you so much for your expertise as a former cia officer jack rice is also journalist. and still ahead right here on r t don't go away it's rubio to the rescue at least that's what's making mainstream media headlines so what is missing from the story well we'll explain what you really need to know about a cuban american senator who may very well be the next neo-con in chief. we just put a teacher underneath when i was like nineteen years old i didn't feel the true. sense and i meant to get a sense that i loved that make us is that. he was kind of the jester that. i'm very proud of the role that i'll just see that split. that we had in apartheid. i think. we never got the book says here keep him safe get ready because their freedom. welcome back well senator marco rubio of florida was valiant last night he came to the rescue of dancey regen at a feaking event at the reagan library in california he caught the ninety year old former first lady from calling now the heroic he is what made mainstream media news which you can see right there it's very s

we think and as many as seven hundred seventy five civilians among those killed just to be clear the cia has now admitted that they have killed around fifty civilians in pakistan during the duration of the certainly years of the drone war but they say they haven't killed a civilian since my last year and our evidence suggests entirely the contrary where were you getting your evidence from what were your sources. well initially we were we went back and looked at over two thousand individual media reports from pakistani u.s. u.k. international media looking at the strikes and then once we don't actually untangled that process and got the clearest idea of what had taken place we don't cross-reference with a host of material which included. legal studies case notes of lawyers who are fighting cases on behalf of civilians in pakistan intelligence documents us secret cables that were leaked by wiki leaks of this year and so on so we're trying to build up really as comprehensive a public view as we could of what's actually been taking place with the cia attacks but although you say the cia do a