opposition turns it undemocratic and a gimmick. and now for all the details.he dragon has once it again shown its true colors. despite commitments of peace by china, the people's liberation army has displayed its real intention. just a few hours before the minister embarked on his trip, the chinese general provoked india by warning it not to provoke and create new troubles for china. here is a report. >> tensions rose between israel and china when just before the indian defense minister's visit to beijing, a top chinese major general, also the executive resident of china strategy culture promotion association said, "the indian side should not remote new problems and increase military deployment on the border and start new trouble ." strategic community defense and foreign ministry in new delhi was shaken by the rude comments from the chinese general hours before the defense minister's visit to china. he also said there is still 90,000 kilometers of territory occupied by the indian side. these are problems left over from history and we need to look at it with a

are just two very tired of the muslim brotherhood rule and the mom monopolization of power and undemocratic steps it's true that people say that morsi is democratically elected democratically elected but even if we can see to that people have not seen a single democratic step from morsi so in a way morsi is democratically elected but undemocratic and this is i think is the major issue this is why people are very ready to accept an intervention which would take them back to the path of democracy. yeah and from your point to you how serious is the threat of a surge of violence and terror now and how will the military handle the situation. the one thing that we fear is that the military does a crackdown on the muslim brotherhood a needless crackdown what they need to do is to contain the violence and the situation what they intend to do is. is really not clear so far they've they've covered the protests in the surrounded the protests of the pro morsi said protesters and they so far they've just been searching them on their way out to see if they have weapons and so forth but it's so so far the

so, how can you define this as undemocratic?ter of fact, as president morsi announced and as our prime minister announced many times, many times, invitation was provided to leaders and members of all parties of egypt to participate in the government, but they declined. and nevertheless, even if the whole government was formed of freedom and justice party, if you even assume that, which was not the case, still, that was the majority government. but however, what happened is that people started to oppose the government, which is all right. i mean, in any democratic society, you have opponents of the government, you have opposition. they were given absolute freedom to express their opinion, even in demonstrations. nobody stood in front of the demonstrations. and they were collecting signatures on a petition. i'm not sure whether they reached 20 million or 2 million or 1 million. nobody counted after that, and there is no way to verify that number anyway. but of course, i acknowledge that there were a lot of demonstrations against t

the unrepresented and undemocratic. they choose their own leadership and represent the interest of the people, but they do not consult the interest of the people. the international monetary institution that can of brentonwood are mostly nation state based and the nations that own and then and the banks that own the nation more or less determined policy. we are and need of new actors politically that can act democratically across borders and have an impact on the interdependent problems we face, and it's fair that i come to the idea that various in the oldest and a regional political the institution possible potential for a new 21st century interdependent world, namely the city, the town, the entities we first form whenever a free early culture people come together on trade or creativity were living together. of the neighborhoods in which we gather. but the ancient perales which is where we started could conceivably today act as an alternative actor, an alternative agent in the modern world and the great beauty and the g

will stand by him i mean he should stick to that finish his four years in power and that it's undemocratic to expect him to step down however with this latest statement from the ministry that basically putting and morsi to do the work in all things i did he refuse demands to people which is that he was signed into the ministry intervene i think we're going to be seeing possibly presidential elections very very soon. right artie's bill true keeping us up to date live from cairo thank you for that. well moving on the united kingdom is calling on the european union to embrace genetically modified food and to ease tighter regulations britain's environment secretary claims that g.m. farming is actually safer than many of the alternatives and beneficial for consumers as well but some health organizations and activists have voiced strong objections that g.m. products and gulf a wide range of foods from corn to rice to chocolate to meats and milk monsanto and american multinational corporation owns around ninety percent of all modified seeds which has caused global controversy over its domination

countries across europe all peoples are starting to reject the european union which is a deeply undemocratic system that is failed and i think the majority in the european parliament can change next year and it's true that it will be a change in direction which i think will be a good thing if you look so your own popularity continues to grow i mean i grew up in paris and i remember when i was a child the national front was really a marginal party that didn't have much support and now it really has become they think france is third biggest party why do you think you've become so popular now. the third maybe even the second maybe even when the european elections come around the number one party. i think we're really moving towards taking power that's what i want you know i'm not here is a bystander i'm here to come into power and apply the ideas that are mine and that i can see are already being applied in other countries around the world i think it's just a matter of it all coming together since a lot of french people are starting to realize that everything's a national front predicted came t

countries across europe all peoples are starting to reject the european union which is a deeply undemocratic system that is failed and i think the majority in the european parliament can change next year and it's true that it will be a change in direction which i think will be a good thing if you look so your own popularity continues to grow i mean i grew up in paris and i remember when i was a child the national front was really a marginal party that didn't have much support and now it really has become they think france is third biggest party why do you think you've become so popular now why did cause him. the third maybe even the second maybe even when the european elections come around the number one party. i think we're really moving towards taking power and that's what i want you know i'm not here is a bystander i'm here to come into power and apply the ideas that are mine and that i can see are already being applied in other countries around the world i think it's just a matter of it all coming together since a lot of french people are starting to realize that everything's a national

have not seen a single democratic step from morsi so in a way morsi is democratic elected but undemocratic are one thing that we fear is that the military does a crackdown on the muslim brotherhood and needless crackdown what they need to do is to contain the violence they need to make sure that it's not an outright military coup where they take power the need to make sure that the crackdown on all the parties are innocent people are arrested and put in jail for no reason it's a very sensitive time right now i think for each. and then just seconds after that military fly past we saw thousands of people celebrating in jubilation at the departure of morsi so it looks as if those celebrations will be continuing well into the night and we'll continue to bring those scenes those dramatic scenes there from egypt's tahrir here the square in the center of cairo where now that egypt's gone full circle back to the outset of the revolution two years ago we're asking how you think it will all end this time when you can get all of these online voting section on our website to have your say let's see ho

the planet it's actually been adopted by other nations and we've now given it up to a completely undemocraticcentralist status political class and we just don't want this anymore we want self-government please and so let's have a referendum why are we listening to think tanks yet another think time why simply can we not have a referendum and put it to the people would not be the most sensible and democratic way of dealing with it well that might happen in a couple of years time but what you say to people now who are afraid of what will happen to britain's economy if it does leave. well look what's happening to our economy now we are trillion pounds in debt the biggest debt that we've had in the history of our nation we have zero g.d.p. growth we don't make our law anymore we can't control our own immigration borders and we have thirty percent youth unemployment. it costs us somewhere in the region of forty million pounds a day to belong to this on democratic corrupt. the whole thing is at the moment a disaster so what would happen to our economy if we left it would leap forward because most o

way morsi is democratic elected but undemocratic the one thing that we fear is that the military does crack down on the muslim brotherhood and needless what they need to do is to contain the violence they need to make sure that it's not an outright military coup where they take power they need need to make sure that they don't crack down on all the parties and innocent people are arrested and put in jail for no reason it's a very sensitive time right now i think for each. one of that egypt's gone full circle back to the outset of the revolution two years ago we're asking how you think it will all end of this time or go to parties online voting section to have your say let's see how your opinions have divided so this hour we're asking you this on our online poll well do you believe the army will do its best to administer the country until fresh elections can be held fifty five percent say yes just over a quarter say that a consensus is unlikely and egypt will be dragged into the chaos because the nation is divided fourteen percent of you so far think that the army will keep hold of pow

elected and they will stand by him and then he should finish these four years in power and it's undemocratic to expect him to step down how would this make this statement from the ministry the basically putting morsi to walking off base why did he refuse demands the people which is that you resigned or the ministry intervened i think we're going to be seeing a possibly presidential elections very very soon. that was artie's bell true. it was the deadline president obama had been warning american families about for over a year today congress missed its deadline to decide on how to act on student is tryst rates those rates have now doubled putting even more financial strain on american college students here's a look at what happens today interest rates on subsidized stafford student loans used to be three point four percent but as of today they have now doubled to six point eight percent so what does that mean financially well it means that the average student taking out loans will pay about two thousand six hundred dollars extra for interest accrued this rate hike will have effect on some sev

a knowledge tens of millions of egyptians have legitimate grievances with president morsi and undemocratic form of governance they do not believe it is a coup. indeed they were demanding a new government. lou: oxford english dictionary defines it as sudden and violent removal of power from a government. said do they really want to say they can't recognize any foreign government that has en delegitimized because enough of the country's citizens have grievances the president's spokesperson did have the motivation for the reluctance to label the action 82. >> 1.$5 billion of aid is under active consideration to cut off the aid. >> dell think to be in the best interest of the united states to imediately change our assistance programs. rethink. not justify. we think it is not the best interest of united states. we're reviewing our and obligations under the law. lou: he caught himself just in time with the first-person reference. with the foreign assistance act of 1961 requires the government to restrict the assistance to the government of any countryhat kevin is supposed by military coup or dec

and that is undemocratic to him to step down but it was just a few things in the ministry basically putting more people looking him up that he feels amongst the people which is that he was going for the military into being i think we're going to be seeing possibly presidential elections very very soon that was artie's bell true. well starving college students are about to get a little more hungry that's because interest rates are set to double today as a result of congress's inaction let's take a look at the numbers interest rates on student loans double to six point eight percent so what does that mean financially well it means that the average student will pay about two thousand six hundred dollars extra in interest accrued this rate hike will affect some seven million students across the nation but it will not impact the people who already have loans so what's next for more i was joined by robert appel bomb he's co-founder and executive director of the student debt crisis dot org and i started by asking him whether this rise in student loan interest rates could actually deter students fr

president will also face millions and millions of protesters in the streets in the square and this is undemocratic democracy says we have to respect the will of the people and of their lawful rights and they have elected this president and our president should have a parliament to form a government that otherwise we will see millions in the streets ending up in clashes. where you can give your own forecast for where egypt is heading r.t. dot com there we have our latest poll waiting for you on our home page r.t. dot com let's look at the results so far will we can see her on screen that makes you think the government is bound to collapse leading to chaos and possibly a humanitarian crisis a little less a predicting that the president will ally with the army. to suppress dissent and rule on tater we can see that just over a quarter at the moment saying that will be a military coup that could bring some degree of stability while only eight percent think that the mubarak era officials would take over more sees imminent resignation take over after he has resigned so those are the results so far to dot

democratically elected and they will stand by him he said still finish his four years in power i mean it's undemocratic to expect him to step down however with this latest statement from the military basically putting morsi to work in our case i think even those demands the people which is that you resign or the military intervene i think we're going to be seeing a possibly presidential elections very very soon. eleven ministers in the egyptian government government have submitted their resignations i made a storm of public dissent but the president and prime minister have refused to accept the resignations thus far now mark all meant historian and middle east expert says that egypt could soon find itself in a power vacuum it seems very much that the army is essentially trying to determine the future and that could well be a return to the past because what is very striking is that there isn't an obvious alternative to morsi there isn't a clear figurehead for the opposition so even if morsi was to resign there's nobody automatic to take his place not least because the constitutional court would invalida

it is also important to a knowledge egyptians do have grievances with the president more sees undemocratic governments in they were demanding a new government. lou: said koo is defined as a satin and illegal seizure of power from the government so does the president really wants his press secretary to reiterate the administration did can recognize any foreign government that has not been legitimized because a enough of those have grievances? but they did reveal the reluctance to label the actions of a coup by the military. >> when $.5 million of aid is under active consideration to cut off the aid. i think it would not be in the best interest of the united states to immediately change our assistance programs to egypt. rethink. not just by. we are reviewing our obligations under the law. lou: the press secretary caught himself just-in-time but the foreign assistance act of 1961 requires the government to restrict assistance to any country that the head of the government is opposed by a military coup or decree but the administration has decided to ignore the law to continue moving money to t

>> you hear the president's response, oh, we have a democratically elected acting undemocratically.e vote and a majority wins. we have something different in our country. we have a democratic republic, where the majority gets to decide policy within the constraints of the constitution. that's the real problem over there. there don't seem to be any constraints other than rule of the mob and that's why you have chaos in egypt. they don't have the same sort of history of a constitution we have in our country. >> senator, would it be different if this happened in another country? >> the thing is, you wonder. in our country, if the military took over and let's say we deposed a democrat president and put a republican in, that's essentially what's happening in egypt. would anybody not call that a military coup in the united states if that happened? i think if it happened in germany we'd call it a military coup. they think there is a different standard for the third world or developing world. that's a mistake. we have a lot of problems in our country. we don't need to be sending money to pe

tens millions have legitimate grievances with president more significant "'s more significant's undemocraticm of government and they do not believe it was a coup. >> one of the most respected institutions is their military. and i think their military did what they have to do in terms of replacing the elected president. but anything further i think beat wa we'll wait for consultations on how we would move ahead. > >> violence continues in egypt as we are now five days after morsi was removed in power. 50 killed overnight, 400 injured. muslim brotherhood calling it a massacre, military saying they were responding to being fired upon. let's bring in our panel. fred barnes, amy stoddard, and charles. every place you turn, there seems to be a different take on where the u.s. too have continued aid to egypt and how to characterize what exactly is going on. >> well, one other place to look is the white house because they have had many different takes. i love jay carney today, on the one hand military shouldn't have done what it did. on the other hand, real grievances of tens of millions of people a

acknowledge that tens of millions of egypses have legitimate grievances with president morsi's undemocraticnce and the white house spokesman said that many of those as he put it tens of millions of egyptians do not consider the events of last week a military coup, rather they consider it people power, shep. >> it's a matter of convenience, really. the united states has been in bed with that military for decades. there is no question. yet, some lawmakers are saying cut off this aid among those lawmakers republican senator john mccain says undoubtedly what happened this week was a military coup. therefore, the united states has a moral obligation to withdraw that $1.3 billion a year of aid to the egyptian military. some analysts say that would be a mistake. egyptians if the united states punished the military for stepping in to averdict state failure. many egyptians are frustrated with a u.s. policy that has backed the brotherhood that has declined to criticize the brotherhood non-drachma niewfers. >> this is a debate that will no doubt go on for some time. especially if as many people fear t

they want to use the white house as leverage for the moment to avoid greater violence and greater undemocraticcts by the military. >> ayman, the president wants, as many folks i think in the international community would like, to see a peaceful transition to a democratically elected government if morsi does end up being sort of taken out of office by the military. but how realistic is that wish? mohammed al bar die writes the executive branch has no clue. it is a question of people who have no vision or experience. they are simply not qualified to govern making the case that there is no there there. there is no one to step into the vacuum effectively. is that accurate? >> the white house has been frustrated with morsi's government for a number of reasons obviously that -- his decree last november seizing more power for himself, later rescinded, very much upset people at the white house. they didn't see that as being a helpful action. they don't feel that his government has necessarily been the most competent government they'd like to see there. having said that, they were working with him. the

a completely is warped and undemocratic institution, this court that meets in complete secrecy, were the government is allowed to attend. unlike previously when it was confined to issuing individual warns about particular targets of terrorism, now it is issuing sweeping, broad opinions, defining the contours of our constitutional liberties, of the government's ability to spy on us. it is being done in secret. what kind of a country has a court that defines the constitution in total secrecy and forces us to live under truly secret law in which the government can do all sorts of things to us that we are not even aware of that is claiming the right to do and being given the power to do it? i think the new york times article highlighted what everyone is done about the joe called the fisa court, but it is good to see the new york times doing some reporting on the stories. fox when greenwald, i will ask you a few questions as we wrap up the broadcast and have it on democracynow.org. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comment

is a military coup and the people you talk to say no it was mohamed morsy acting increasingly undemocratic and we needed the military's help to push him out of power and what is striking is seeing prominent liable voices like the peace prize winner and former international energy standing side by side with the top egyptian military general and defending the action, stripping morsy of his powers, calling it a correction of 2011 revolution. >> ben, you're been at a pro-morsy rally all day long. what happens next? for how long can those two rallies, these two various camps with large numbers of supporters in each one continue for? >> it's important to stress, anderson, the number of people at that pro-morsy is just a drop in the bucket come parped to the -- compared to the tens of thousands coming into tahrir square. we passed through a mosque and i saw hundreds of men sleeping on the floor, and as i made my way around their sleeping bodies, i stopped by one man who was awake and i said how long are you going to stay here? he told me days, weeks, we may die here, but we are going to stay here

is not a coup that the army is simply carrying out the will of the people who got frustrated at undemocratices made by the president morsi himself. of course his backers are very much following this military coup and there are some signs to suggest it is because we're getting courts that the military and the security services are shutting down the muslim brotherhood media outlets and rounding up top officials in the muslim brotherhood as well as mohammad morsy himself. that looks like the symptoms of a coup. >> right. ben wedeman, one reason they don't want to say it is a coup, there are billions of u.s. dollars that may or may not depend on whether people sbempt it like. that president obama issued a statement saying united states is monitoring the fluid situation in egypt. we believe ultimately the future of egypt can only be determined by the egyptian people and i have directed the department and agencies to review the implications under u.s. law for our assistance to the government of egypt. a clear warning, i would say, from the white house that unless people are careful about how this

is a military coup and the people you talk to say no it was mohamed morsy acting increasingly undemocratic and we needed the military's help to push him out of power and what is striking is seeing prominent liable voices like the peace prize winner and former internation international energy standing side by side with the top egyptian military general and defending the action, stripping morsy of his powers, calling it a correction of 2011 revolution. >> ben, you're been at a pro-morsy rally all day long. what happens next? for how long can those two rallies, these two various camps with large numbers of supporters in each one continue for? >> it's important to stress, anderson, the number of people at that pro-morsy is just a drop in the bucket come parped to the t -- compared to the tens of thousands coming into tahrir square. we passed through a mosque and i saw hundreds of men sleeping on the floor, and as i made my way around their sleeping bodies, i stopped by one man who was awake and i said how long are you going to stay here? he told me days, weeks, we may die here, but we are goin

for such a democratic process, it's a very undemocratic to get 6 or 12 people to consensus. i'm really interested how she uses that, the people interested in second degree and manslaughter. it was split three different ways. it took horse trading and strong debate. >> it didn't take that much because it was two days. >> but i think, i mean, for someone to believe second-degree murder -- >> to get from second-degree murder to not guilty is a long way to fall. >> i want to reiterate the ways the jurors misused that defense that they didn't -- >> let me just also they the other part of this, right, stand your ground is both a concept and a law. that's part of the confusion. it's the principle. part of what we are seeing come out of this, right, is that fundamentally, there is a very old sense of american justice that is almost prelegal, that is prethe state, right? which is this idea of standing your ground that, like, the only justice that happens on the frontier is meted out by people with guns. these should be mediated by a well-trained state that has resources so the intera

people you talk to in tahrir square saying no, it was mohammed morsy who was acting increasingly undemocratic, and we needed the military's help to push him out of power. and what's striking is seeing some very prominent liberal voices, like muhammad elbaradei, the nobel peace prize winner, who was a former harsh critic of the egyptian military, now standing side by side with the top egyptian military general and defending this action stripping morsy of his powers, calling it a correctional of the 2011 revolution. >> ben, you've been at a pro morsy rally all day long. what does happen next? for how long can this be kind of two rallies, these two various camps with large numbers of supporters and each one continues? >> it's important to stress, anderson, that the number of people at that pro morsy valley is just a drop in the bucket compared to the tens of thousands of people who are still streaming into tahrir square. now, as we were leaving that location, we passed through a mosque, and i saw hundreds of men sleeping on the floor. as i made my way around their sleeping bodies, i stopped by o

there is no doubt that the process through which president morsi was removed was undemocratic. ultimately democracy was not the main thing at stake here in egypt. the state was failing under morsi's control and within the past few days, he had essentially become a president in name only. you saw that he did not exert any control military. any control over the police and the military essentially intervened to prevent state failure. >> shepard: how much concern do you have that this could turn to violence and eventually even potentially result in some sort of civil war? >> well, i think a civil war is unlikely because you just don't have the ethnic divisions in egypt that have given rise to civil wars elsewhere. do i think there is going to be violence. the muslim brotherhood and its allies certainly believe they have been cheated. they don't recognize the extent to which president morsi's mismanagement pushed the country to the brink. some of those allies, i have to tell you are terrorist organizations. in particular -- i think egypt is in for very rough days. >> shepard: what d

many people in the streets do not see this as an undemocratic coup, but rather a response to a president did not manage the economy well and continued to try to accrue powers, including ruling out judicial oversight of some of his actions. where do we go from here, and what did you think of what richard was reporting about the open questions that faced mr. morsi's future? >> i think richard's report is dead on. the fact of the matter is we don't know what's going to happen to mr. morsi. we don't know whether or not he's going to call on his supporters to rise up against this -- what he has called a military coup and what the fellow muslim brotherhood leaders call a coup. it's clear the military is rounding up leaders of the muslim brotherhood and more radical elements of egyptian society. at the same time, you have to understand that what has caused this outpouring of anger and resentment against morsi is really a complete deterioration of what essentially results in an economic catastrophe for egypt, number one. and a total breakdown of law and order in the streets of the egyptian citie

well how can we do that when we're doing something that's inpatiei inherently undemocratic?> another problem though is that some of them were tortured and are still, nonetheless, dangerous. but if they're tried because they were tortured, that evidence would be thrown out and there might and case for them to be released. unfortunately, they can't be released though because they're terrorists. >> on the torture issue, this is something we have not actually put -- we have not focused on as much as we should have. there was an article that came out, i think it was two weeks ago, talking about a vacuum cleaner that khalid shaikh mohammed had invented while incarcerated at gitmo. there was a lot of chuckling about him inventing a vacuum cleaner. the reason he was given the task of inventing things, because by the cia's own account, the program's interrogation methods were designed to psychologically dislocate people and once the interrogation stopped the agency had to try and undo the psychological damage inflicted on detainees. one of the ways in which they bring people back eff

i spec out on behalf of the poor irish when my hosts are the ones who are sort of holding this undemocratic moment in place, or do i cleave to my people? and i was annoyed at him, because, you know, publicly he didn't speak out on behalf of the poor irish, at first i was annoyed at him and then i began to realize what a beautiful gesture it was to his own history and to his own people, and also that he can't hold a will -- you can't take on the conscience of the whole word. douglas was a most incredible person, you know, doug douglas and mitchell both, as you know, he spoke out on behalf of women's rights, 100 years before anybody else, and he gave birth to the civil rights movement over here, and he was fantastic, and what he did in ireland was profound too. >> rose: the third leg of this is, the people who from newfoundland went transatlantic to ireland. >> right. >> rose: the first, before charles lindbergh, transatlantic flight. >> yes. >> rose: why them? john alcott and arthur whitten brown? >> i was just on a flight coming from dublin a couple of weeks ago and i was thinking, this chi

don't want every eligible american to be able to cast that unfettered vote and have it count it is undemocratic it should not happen that way so you wonder about the idiology is the people who say those things to eric holder. of the exact what we need him to do the biggest problem voter suppression is too often we find out after the fact after the evil deed has been done at the american voters have lost the opportunity to have their voices heard the pre-clearance section section five says because we know that you have a bad history you have a child with a background of actually discriminated against voters we want to make sure that before you make any changes to the time place or manner in which the election is carried out we preclude it we review what you're trying to do and make sure it won't have a negative disenfranchise an impact so what holder's doing now is some that would help make sure that americans are able to cast their vote to have that right to vote to have their voices heard before after the fact too often and we've hear that when people don't show up to vote somebody when somebo