no brooks, andy biggs, jim jordan, scott barry.uys has really faced account ability as you get more serious questions from law enforcement officials. give me a sense of the complications of potentially prosecuting or at least charging a member of congress, as you see it. >> there are a few challenges with that. you know that scott perry had his phone seized by federal investigators as part of the look at donald trump and the broader plot. he was a key player in the effort to apply the justice department to help to what he did in 2020. so, now, again, he wasn't charged over that and we don't know where that path led doj. it is hard to penetrate congress. they have speech or debate protection in the constitution, almost the full immunity from being criminally pursued over there on official business. now, the january 6th session of congress, even though it is about an election, it is part of official business. they are casting votes to certify an election. getting inside that and compelling these people to talk or even just to get a l

andy biggs is in nomination. he voted for himself. matt gaetz voted for biggs. bob good voted for biggs. we haven't heard from norman or rosen dale. these are all defections i'm marking off here. these are all defections we have seen so far. andy harris voted for lee cel don. so if the move from healthcare car thi's folks after this first vote is concluded is to move immediately into a second vote, they would obviously hope some of these republicans who voted for other names just get persuaded and vote for mccarthy. that would be their ideal situation. the other possibility, the other thing i think they would hope for is if some of these names say like an a day harris, instead of voting for somebody else by name if they just started voting present, because that does change the math. anybody voting present or abstaining changes the magic number. there are 434 members-elect who are this voting. the vote counts if you vote for somebody by name. if you vote present, it's not considered an official vote. if you abstain, it's not considered an official vote. it's the

andy biggs is going to vote 26th in the order, right now we are on 12 so that we are coming up and andy biggs will be the first one called, critically there, boebert will be called, and obviously all the drama surrounding him, he's gonna be the 140th name that is called. but again, for mccarthy standpoint, three present votes from this list, or two votes from mccarthy for this list, that will do it for him. one president, and one vote for mccarthy. that will do it for him. and again, i'm just looking at, him andy biggs, is the first that we are going to hear from this crucial list. we are about ten names away from andy biggs right now. and when he is called, then folks, you'll then hear five more names, and then it will be boebert. so again, one vote for her car there and one present, does it. >> it feels for me, we are listening for andy biggs is up for about seven names now. let's just listen. >> mccarthy. barr. mccarthy. bear again. jeffries. dina florida. mccarthy. -- hakeem jeffries. fits? mccarthy. -- jeffrey is. bird man. mccarthy. buyer? jeffries. -- mccarthy! [applause] bags? p

back story on andy biggs?who was on the forefront of election denialism. he exchanged text messages with mark meadows asserting legislatures could throw out results and how they voted in order to send and make donald trump the president. but also andy biggs is the face of defiance. i think over the last ten years, you have watched those defiant voices in the republican party from ted cruz to andy biggs, lauren boebert, donald trump himself, defiance wins among republican voters. until republican voters shoot them down in the primary, last little reason to step away. >> they have shot a lot of them down. lauren boebert almost fell down. let's talk about primary elections. one of the concessions that kevin mccarthy made was by proxy i guess his superpac head a deal with the club for growth to not put money into open seats for gop primaries. how does that affect who gets elected to congress? >> well, it's a commitment from mccarthy's political machine that they are not going to vie to unseat some of these rebels

gaets, jim jordan, andy biggs, paul gosar, madison cawthorn, jody hice. we have congresswoman loria with us. thank you for being with us and taking the time. >> thank you. >> do you believe this is a comparable request, phone records of serve members of congress let alone a former president. i don't know if it's exactly unprecedented, but it does feel like a big deal. >> rachel, this committee is tasked with fully discovering and understanding facts of everything that happened on january 6th and everything that led up to january 6th, which obviously we know is an unprecedented attack on our democracy and our institution of government. so the committee is using these preservation requests to ensure that telecommunication companies

but their first two are coming fast -- >> let's listen to andy biggs of arizona and lauren boebert of colorado. >> mccarthy -- -- >> akeem jeffries. >> jeffries. bent? mccarthy. berra? jeffries. bergman? mccarthy. buyer? jeffries. bye? mccarthy. biggs? big -- jordan. bilirakis? mccarthy. bishop of georgia? jeffries. bishop of north carolina? mccarthy. blumenauer? jeffries. rochester? jeffries. boebert? present -- [applause] >> wow! [inaudible] >> steve, tell us what just happened here. >> yes, lauren boebert voting present right there, so that is significant obviously, as we said, if three of these end up voting present, mccarthy is speaker. or if one of these other four names a vote for mccarthy, combined with that present vote that boebert just cast, that will be enough to make it speaker as well. that is assuming that, again, one name to come up here in a second -- >> he like when we're looking for, right? >> well, he is. and we also want to make sure can buck is coming, and about three names. he's the one he's been missing all they, flying back. you'll see's name on this list. he'

several members of congress, including marjorie taylor greene, mo brooks, matt gaets, jim jordan, andy biggs, paul gosar, madison cawthorn, jody hice. we have congresswoman loria with us. thank you for being with us and taking the time. >> thank you. >> do you believe this is a comparable request, phone records of serve members of congress let alone a former president. i don't know if it's exactly unprecedented, but it does feel like a big deal.

just today representative andy biggs in arizona called upon the white house to shutdown the coronavirus task force and get rid of tony fauci and deborah birx. meanwhile you had andrew cuomo, we've done a good job, but we're not going to let the following states send people our way because they have too much covid. we're acting more like 50 -- we should include guam and puerto rico and so on. 50-plus individual nations than we are like a single national response. >> the only, to me the only sort of moon shot here as far as i can tell is like a very fast 100% mask adoption, the data that's accrued the last several months has really suggested in terms of like effectiveness versus cost and hassle. it's the sort of easiest thing we have. you have abbott today issuing a mask order for any county in the state that has over 20 cases,

. >> you know, congressman, representative andy biggs, i brought his tweet up at the beginning of your interview. he puts out and i-4 and i. it's yet another example, in my opinion, of some violent rhetoric that far-right republicans are putting forth, encouraging political violence. what's your reaction to this because you work along side these colleagues of yours? it may not be the same party, right? but you guys are working in the same space, and this is the stuff that comes out of congressman, even after january 6th. >> it sickens me to hear it, it's really unpatriotic, and morally is a violation of your oath to protect and defend against all enemies of the united states. trump is an enemy of the united states, when he takes secret documents and make them available by having them in his

the andy biggs number not that big with ten. i think there was an expectation that he was going to draw some of those because he has been forecasting for quite a while that he was going to run against speaker mccarthy, but the big question here i have is do they go into another vote right away, which is what we expect to happen, but what is the change, the breaking point that either means that mccarthy's going to sway some of these people for himself or not? you see him on the floor right now. he's taking photos. seems pretty jovial, in a good mood. it's not as if the body language has changed. he still seems very confident despite this no confidence vote by many members in this vote. >> what's interesting know, he's fully aware the cameras are trained on him for the most part. granted they're not this moment. that said, we have been been watching him. he has, for the most part, kept a smile on his face. when you look at his top lieutenants, if you will, they look pretty darn somber. what do you expect though jim jordan will say

andy biggs 's personality is different, he is more amenable and flexible.able. >> congressman, thank you very much for being with us. before we sneak in a quick break in 15 seconds, tell us where it is going? >> we are still playing the waiting game and we will be doing that until 10 o'clock tonight. mccarthy sounds confident, they are trying to figure out who they can pick off, maybe coming from unexpected places. gaetz descending open now pixma i will let you untethered yourself from the camera and go roam and do some actual reporting. thank you so much, thank you to all of you for watching it another busy hour of msnbc. we will probably see you tonight. we will see you before on the streaming channel for nbc for show number two. specially designed for people with high blood pressure. be there for life's best moments. trust coricidin. young lady who was, you know, mid 30s, couple of kids, recently went through a divorce. she had a lot of questions when she came in. i watched my mother go through being a single mom. at the end of the day, my mom raised thr

alexander and paul gosar as alexander, the person who organized the stop the steal real, he named andy biggsyou're end biggs and some of the members of congress, old people hike ron johnson, do you lawyer up? >> that's the advice to follow, joy. are you better get yourself a very good lawyer, and with the way that the proceed having gone so far. if we don't make it necessary for them to lawyer up, we lose our values as a nation because we ever ear saying if you are ruch enough or powerful enough we won't come after you. >> what message would it send in terms of the rule of law, all of it, we really have a strong case that trump orchestrated, prapd and even if it meant violence to stay in office regardless of the lawful votes. this in addition is to get the information out. if he gets away with it, what then? >> joy, understand that i understood these hearings familiar with what's in the record and court files. what's likely to surprise me is going town fold what i already know. i've actually been floored by what i've seen. >> same. >> especially today with how they went after shaye moss and

speaking of andy biggs, let me let you listen to him today. he had an exchange with congressman jamie raskin that i think you will find interesting. >> i hear him not even to be accepting the results of this audit which say that joe biden got more votes than were lawfully reported. do you accept this audit which shows joe biden won indeed by more votes -- >> that is not what the audit concluded, mr. raskin. >> who won the election in -- >> we don't know. it demonstrates very clearly, mr. raskin, there are a lot of issues with this election that took place. >> madam chair, there is the problem that we have. donald trump refuses to accept the results. unfortunately we have one of the world's great political parties which has followed him off of the ledge of this electoral lunacy. >> claire, it seems to me the logical next person to be subpoenaed would be andy biggs if it was me. what do you think? >> well, all three of them. i mean, we have a witness who is now saying -- who has said publicly if you are investigating this that he was in coordina

you look at andy biggs. reelected after being publicly on the front lines of urging state legislaures to toss out the results of their voters and send donald trump's slate of lek electors. eli crane, it was interesting to watch who he was a talking with there. he was talking with a fellow republican freshman here. and he was just elected out of wisconsin. interestingly, he was outside of the capitol building on january 6th. that is who was sitting next to eli crane. eli was talking with bannon. he said that 95% of the folks in his district overwhelmingly do not want him to support kevin mccarthy. this is a man who was a former navy seal seal who had the courage to stand with us. this is somebody who is going to take this to the end here. when you're looking at those consequences, we watch paul gosar flip, buff you have the likes of lauren boebert that was their 1776. there's been no political consequences. if anything they are winning support among the conservatives back home. >> people who were elected with

for congressman andy biggs, questions about his role in an effort by house republicans to seek a pardoning to overturn election results. in a statement writes this, quote, former white house personnel identified mr. biggs as potentially being involved in an effort to seek a presidential pardon for activities connected with the former president's effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election, and just in the last hour nbc news caught up with january 6th committee vice chair liz cheney. when asked about why the committee took the serious step of issuing subpoenas to members of congress, cheney said this, quote, it's a reflection of how important and how serious the investigation is, and how grave the attack on the capitol was. the january 6th select committee throwing down the gauntlet by house republicans by issuing subpoenas to members of congress is where we start today. new york trends congressional reporter broadwater is here, associate editor and columnist for real clear politics joins us, also joining us eric swalwell of california with the house and judiciary committee. s with

andy biggs is first up. lauren boebert is the third to vote in terms of those who have been against mccarthy. don't have to get that far down to get to matt gaetz. you are looking at bob good from virginia. good was saying, you never have to ask me the question again. i'm always going to be against kevin mccarthy. if the number there is four that would do him in, that number -- it's not hard to see him reaching that real quick here. the other question is, if he does fail again on this ballot, how much progress has he made? has he made any progress? >> what we are watching, the fact it's front loaded, we will know early. but we are also watching what's happening -- they called for a quorum call. this takes a while. they are stalling for time. they have come out of meetings. they were in meetings last night. brendan, how do you read reports from kevin mccarthy's own comments that they have made progress, maybe narrowing a gap, but clearly not there yet? >> projecting a little optimism. one thing we know is thi

we have andy biggs and kevin mccarthy. let's listen. >> i think this is an illegitimate committee and they doesn't really have the authority to issue subpoenas in my opinion. so -- so we don't want to dignify what they're doing. >> does that mean that you will not comply with the subpoena? >> i haven't even seen the subpoena so i really can't tell you whether i'm going to comply or not. >> my view on the committee has not changed. they're not conducting a legitimate investigation. it seems as they they want to go after their politically opponent. >> this is all for headlines and sensationalization. this whole thing is a charade. >> jake, kevin mccarthy -- andy biggs is one thing but kevin mccarthy calling the panel ill ill illegitimate is taking it a step further. >> reporter: this was a committee created by the house of representatives, given subpoena authority by a vote of the house of representatives so it's interesting to hear they don't think the committee is legitimate but that carries 0.0 weight here. this committee

sorry, not scott perry, this is andy biggs, sorry about that. recent information from former white house personnel has identified an effort by certain house republicans after january 6th to seek a presidential pardon, for activities taken in connection with president trump's efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election. your name was identified as a potential participant in that effort. we don't know that much about it, we've only sort of seen this a little bit obscured for through reporting. but, the seeking of pardons strikes me is quite significant in terms of what it shows about their consciousness of the gravity of what they had possibly participated in. >> yeah, exactly, you don't need a pardon for a peaceful protest, or a normal tourist visit. you need a pardon for a crime. of, course granting a pardon is some indication of crime has been committed. the supreme court has said receiving or accepting one is some admission of guilt. you know, when you boil it all down. you have even the trump children testifying before t

used the word "viable" there, yasmin, and there's technically a challenger to mccarney, and it's andy biggs and members of the caucus have been saying over the last week or so they anticipate there being a challenge, and they put a name on the line there, but the whole point of andy biggs run something not necessarily to win this vote that is happening today, it's more just to prove the fact that kevin mccarthy himself doesn't have the magic number of 218. i mind what today's leadership elections are versus january. january is what matters for mccarthy, but today's leadership elections that start later this afternoon will tell us a lot about the amount of politicking and concession making he will have to do with various parts of his caucus to get to the 218 number several weeks from now, and you can listen to a slice of what we have been hearing in the halls here. check it out. >> i stand here right now and mccarthy does not have 218 votes to become speaker, and i don't think he has 200. >> andy biggs would be an outstanding speaker, and he would be among my top two or three choices. >> if

>> well, you mentioned matt gaetz, and andy biggs, two of the five, gaetz has been kind of the longest tenured member of the never kevin caucus, always a foil to the republican leader. biggs is the man up for the job or has put himself up for the job to be speaker if kevin mccarthy can't get the notes. less well known ralph norman, he got notoriety this week when he had a text to mark meadows calling for martial law on the aftermath of the 020 election came out, matt rosendale who ran for senate in montana, a congressman, bob good of virginia, the fifth. they all have their own reasons for opposing kevin mccarthy. but by and large, they go to what you just described. they want to hold his feet to the fire and kind of force him to be more conservative, more pro-trump than he might otherwise be and to the degree they're interested in compromise, and again, it varies among the five, a lot of this has to deal with rule changes they might be able to extract to make it possible to give him the gavel and have it hanging over his head the ability to take it back if he tags too far to the left

quote, stop the steal event, said he got assistance beforehand from representatives paul gosar, andy biggs and mo brooks. and then when you look at the two of the qanon congresswomen, lauren bobe art was tweeting the speaker left the store after being asked not to discuss the location of the speaker. do you believe members of the republican caucus might have been involved in the insurrection themselves? >> well, i think that's a great question. and we absolutely have to get to the bottom of it. the reporting seems to suggest that's quite possible. i will say this, if they were found to have assisted these folks, who then committed an insurrection and stormed the capitol, then they should not only be expelled from congress, but they should also face criminal charges for doing so. and i look forward to that investigation being conducted. >> do you feel safe around people like congresswoman lauren bobe ert and congresswoman lauren green and i think up to 10, 11 members of the qanon cult, who are members of congress, some of whom brag about it. madison hawthorne is another one that brags about

we're going to listen for a second and wait for andy biggs, and boebert will come after that, and eli crane has some reporting, probably not someone who might move, it will come pretty quick after that and then a break and then talk about what is going on at the white house. but let's listen for a couple of minutes. >> bentz? mccarthy. bera? jeffries. jordan. bilirakis? bilirakis? mccarthy. bishop of georgia? jeffries. bishop of north carolina? mccarthy. blumenauer? jeffries. blunt rochester? jeffries. boebert? jordan. >> okay, so andy biggs, jordan, lauren boebert, the next one, we're watching for, is eli crane and steve, if he votes jordan we will need some present votes in order for mccarthy to win. >> i think it is over if he vote force jordan because gaetz, given the posture, unless gaetz did something that would shock the world, that would be four votes against mccarthy, even if he got the other three, he would be short. just in terms of where crane comes up in the order here, taking a look here, we got a little bit of a ways to go. we're probably about 35 names from crane right

and congressman andy biggs, for his participation in a december white house planning meeting. o other house members, came up with the whole idea of bringing protesters to washington and white house staff identified biggs as a potential participant in seeking trump pardons after january 6th. the committee purposefully, publicly, deliberately calling on and calling out these three congressmen to, quote, provide answers to the american people about that day and fulfill their patriotic duty. joining us now, house january 6th select committee member congressman pete aguilar of california. first, the letters always seem to balance the committee's desire to hold back as much evidence as you can for the public and deliberately public phase, but there's always something in here that we as the public see for the very first time and i think you might know where i'm going here, these texts about ronny jackson. tell me the significance of what are communications among oath keepers to find him, protect him, and guard what is described in the text as, quote, critical data. >> well, i think he

and i do think that it's not gonna be one of these announced people, like andy biggs, who steps up.ll fall on a steve scalise mostly, and i agree with him about that. someone of more standing, someone in leadership already who will come and something will happen for. but there will be pressure. i don't see him saying, you know, i mean clearly, the way he's acting, he's still working -- >> he wants the job. >> he's projecting -- he wants the job, like, i don't think he's gonna leave it to them, to say figure it out themselves. he cares. >> we're gonna learn a lot more about kevin mccarthy, one way or the other, pretty soon. tim, washington has got all sorts of euphemisms to describe the fact that not everybody thinks that kevin mccarthy is a sort of a de-policy mind, or you know, one of those generations greatest thinkers. a few months ago, politico published an opinion piece outright asking many reporters think given mccarthy's dump, why can't they say so? what do you know about kevin mccarthy and his actual abilities, and intellectual reach? >> well, i haven't got to spend a lot of

and his allies, the man challenging kevin mccarthy for the speakership is republican congressman andy biggs. one of the people who reportedly requested a pardon from donald trump for his f role until tryi to overturn the election results on january 6th, 2021. todayry in a closed-door vote o the republican congress, leader mccarthy managed to lose 31 votes to andy biggs. and kevin mccarthy will now have to convince allil or most of the defectors to back him as speaker, in order to win a vote in the full house which comes in january.me there is almost zero chance that republicanse will be able to solve the dispute. trump for hisso part is unconvinced his influence had much to do with his party's losses. he's instead blaming republicanb leadership for not being more enthusiastic about his losing slate ofic candidates. trump was fairly blunt about this over b on truth social.th it's mitch mcconnell's fault spending money to back great republican candidates instead of blake masters and others was a big mistake. he blew the midterms and now everybody despises him. and now that guy, that guy, dona

congressman matt gaetz, andy biggs and scott perry reportedly asked trump for pardons. gaetz related to an ongoing federal sex trafficking investigation, and biggs and perry for their roles in the insurrection at the capitol. biggs and perry also among those referred to the january 6th committee to the house ethics committee for defying its subpoenas, the same house ethics committee mccarthy has agreed to gut if he's made speaker. and let's not forget paul gosar and his own family, his own siblings call him a white supremacist. joining me now mark lebovic and stewart stevens. to you, i'm going to start with you at the table, mark, because there isn't -- let me first of all read you a tweet that i think the truest thing ever said in republican politics in the last decade and from senator lindsey graham. he said if you nominate trump we'll get destroyed and we'll deserve it. the tea party started i believe the descent into this kind of politics. this is the insurrection mob that's now formed an insurrection against kevin mccarthy. >> yes, it is a mob. it is kind of organi

the math got harder with new defections like andy biggs, and they can only afford republican no's to be at 22 while it looks like there are 32 that would vote no. >>> and 61% of voters disapprove of the way president trump is handling health care. 20% of voters say the affordable care ability should be repealed. and 20% say to repeal some of it, that should be 50%. and 27% say it should not be repealed. what are we about to witness in the coming hours here? >> i think we're talking to caucus sources on the hill, and some of the opposition against this bill is softening. the problem is, if they make it more conservative, as they have been doing, that makes moderates and the gop much less likely to vote for it. so even if they get some of the freedom caucus vote, congressmen on board, it could still go down this afternoon. it's just really up in the air right now. >> so daniel, you have the white house saying the are just finding to move on to other things if this thing doe't happen and goes south, what does that do to the president's agenda if that happens? this is the guy who makes t

these republicans could vote for a different republican, andy biggs from arizona put his name forward. a republican could vote for bob smith, pick any name out of a hat. the problem for mccarthy is the balance right now is there's 222 republican members elect, 212 democrats. this one vacant seat, a democrat who passed away after the election and before today. that means if all republicans, all democrats do cast votes here in the next hour, we expect, there will be 434 total votes. you need 50% plus one. a majority. in this scenario, it's 218. that would be what mccarthy needs on this first ballot. if you need 218 and you are kevin mccarthy, you have already got these five republicans who for weeks now have been adamantly saying they are no. if they vote and they vote for somebody besides mccarthy, if they voted for biggs let's say, then mccarthy best case is at 217. then if every democrat is voting, we said the magic number in that scenario is 218. these are the five most obvious. there are other republicans, including within the last hour, who sent signals they seem likely to vote no

somebody with nobody, and that's the best thing kevin and mitch have going for them right now, and andy biggsthe challenger for mccarthy, and he spoke at the mall on january 6th, and so the challenge to mccarthy is more in line with trump and the election denialers, and hard to see biggs getting to 218. and in the senate, rick scott says he is going to challenge mitch mcconnell, and he just face-planted in the midterms, and there's not a good option in either caucus. if one emerged, a potential consensus option emerged, i think both men would be in trouble and if they sneak through, both will be on very short leashes. and to what ali was talking about, the way the speaker votes, he has to get all 218 votes, not just a majority of his caucus, and no democrats are going to vote for kevin mccarthy for speaker. he has to walk a very, very, very narrow tightrope, whereas mcconnell has to win half of his caucus, which seems more achievable despite there's grievances -- i am not going to agree which grievances they have with mitch mcconnell. >> i think the other thing is, tim, the bottom line is the

you just mentioned your reporting there on congressman andy biggs being certainly critical. know, what tape is coming next? seems to be a steady stream of them. none of them particularly good for mccarthy, even if he is able to survive them. i also wanted to get you on another story you were working on, president biden is potentially moving closer to canceling student debt, at least some of it. explain to us what that means, what kind of potential timeline we're looking at, how much debt and who could receive this. >> yeah. you know, when i was covering biden on the campaign trail, candidate biden then was pretty careful about what he would say on student loans because he was being pushed by progressives as he still is to cancel all of it. biden has said canceling all student debt is something likely not under his power as the president. but, in a recent meeting with congressional hispanic caucus members on monday, he did go further than he ever has before, basically pledging that he was going to revoke or at least be able to pull back some student debt for many who, of cour

republican congressman, andy biggs, of arizona.december 2020 meeting at the white house, where he, and other trump loyalists in congress, discussed how to convince mike pence to overturn the election results. we also learned that cassidy hutchinson testimony, is a presidential pardon after the insurrection. adam kinzinger, also noted that they typically seek pardons, only when they believe they committed a crime. they also might take it as a cue to hide from the spotlight for a little bit. right? but you would be wrong. just this week, he sent a letter to the chairwoman of the house oversight committee, demanding the panel investigate the bogus claims from professional liar, this susan's latest conspiracy filled movie. 18 months after the election, and two years after the 2020 election, andy biggs is still pushing the big election lie. and, working to undermine the faith in our democracy from within. let's continue the conversation on the second hour of a man. straight ahead, i speak of a former federal judge who said, that supreme

we are talking about three people and it's their first time being asked, and it's andy biggs, mo brooks and ronnie jackson, and ronnie jackson, who you see on your screen, this is a texas lawmaker, the former physician in the white house for then president trump, and it's notable, they say, because of the work being done by the doj in prosecuting members from the proud boys and oath keepers, and they say that while the january 6th attack was under way, members of the oath keepers including its leader were asking members of the organization provide jackson personally with security assistance, suggesting that he has, quote, critical data to protect. these letters then go on in jackson's case to say why would these individuals have an interest in your personal specific locations? why do they think you have critical data to protect? why would they want to protect you personally on january 6th? this is notable for a lot of reasons, but specifically because jackson is not one of the names often talked about in the role he may have played in helping to foment or support the white house's effor

i cannot imagine andy biggs would get more than a handful. >> now. i don't think he will.'t think these guys necessarily care. chaos is their game. that is what they want. i was having lunch yesterday, stephanie, with a very smart person. chief of staff for 30 years who said, it is not just that they have to get into 2:18, that they get into specific number of people who are in the chamber and are willing to vote for him. right? this could go on for days and weeks. without a speaker, as any better and will tell, you the house can do anything. they can organize committees. it can't face staffers, as we saw a story earlier today. people will just come to a grinding halt. there will be hydrangea. you'll see people like john bacon and nebraska, maybe i'll go across the aisle to democrat. find someone who's a consensus candidate. maybe won't even be a member. the consultation is they have to be. i think they could be in for some real, real d. c. drama here. kind of stuff that even house of cards can come up with in the next few weeks. >> we've been saying that the past six year

is it kevin mccarthy or is it, you know, andy biggs and paul gosar and matt gaetz? >> i think one of the central challenges here is that in this -- in kevin mccarthy speaker run within the republican caucus, there was no number two. the republican caucus did not really have a full-throated race for speaker. there was no challenger in the last two months that has emerged. that is a central republican problem. whether mccarthy pulls this through or not, the core concern here is who would ascend to that seat? i do not believe that kevin mccarthy has the votes. i believe that a lot of the opposition to him is very personal. i believe his leadership style is incompatible with a lot of republican members and certainly the democratic caucus and so i think that is the central question, if not him then who? you have certain members of the freedom caucus who have, of course, nominated other people but the rest of the republican party will not rally, i believe, they will not coalesce under jim jordan. jim jordan doesn't want it. they won't coalesce around andy biggs so the que

and andy biggs for his involvement in planning the rally that day. and for seeking a potential presidential pardon for efforts to overturn the election. as for mo brooks who gave a speech urging supporters to start taking down names and kicking ass. the committee's also interested in his public claims that the former president urged him to rescind the election, remove biden and re-install trump as president. it should come as no surprise where they questioned legitimacy of the committee. the question is what's the recourse if they refuse? today chairman thompson expressed caution at the prospect of holding the five in contempt of congress. >> what is the other side of that? >> well, obviously we're exploring a number of ways. contempt would be one. we have not talked about it. there's referrals to ethics, there are some civil other things we could look at, but we have not put anything from decision standpoint before the committee. we're just taking it one step at a time. we hope everybody complies. >> joining me, madeleine dean. ellie mustall and dav

jim jordan, andy biggs, paul gosar, louie gohmert, mo brooks, scott perry.y were actively involved. "the new york times" describes it this way. this circle moved well beyond words and into action. they bombarded the justice department with dubious claims of voting irregularities. they pressured members of state legislatures to conduct audits that would cast doubt on the election process. they plotted to disrupt the certification on january 6 of joseph r. biden's victory. and as we just heard from professor tribe, that plot was a criminal plot. >> well, i think we saw over time that the former president was very impressed with strong men like duterte and putin and xi jinping and kim jong-un. these were the people that he looked to and lauded, really, and spoke in very complimentary terms about while turning his back on our traditional allies that supported democracy with us. so should come as no surprise really he was emulating them. and we saw even his own legal team put together a 36-slide power point on how to keep him in power and what people could do and

for example, conspiracy theories, andy biggs, lauren boebert, paul gosar, and anna paulina luna, and scott perry, the chairman of the far-right freedom caucus, also a subject of the january 6th investigations, have all been appointed to the oversight committee! it's considered one of the most powerful panels in the house. is expected to launch numerous investigations into the biden administration over the next two years. meanwhile, this process -- it's also allowed republicans to exact political revenge on democrats for previously marjorie taylor greene and paul gosar from their committee assignments after they each made threatening posts against some of their democratic colleagues. now, last, week speaker mccarthy blocked representatives adam schiff and aaron swalwell from returning to their posts on the house intelligence committee. schiff and swalwell are outspoken california democrats who previously served as impeachment managers during the impeachment of donald trump. republicans also sought reputation against minnesota congresswoman ilhan omar, citing remarks he made in the pas

that's people like marjorie taylor greene, andy biggs, and a few others. then there's others who are just calling for some guardrails around this money. some transparency, for example representative thomas -- he wants a vote. stand-alone vote on ukraine aid. he doesn't want it tied to any other big government funding bills. but these are a lot of competing demands and ultimately mccarthy is gonna have to decide, is he willing to pass ukraine aid with a majority of democratic's if he can't get the support of a majority of -- simone. >> you know, the end, this is why we have to read your newsletter every morning. i talked about some of the criticism that we saw on social media from some of these far-right members of congress. i want you to listen to colorado congressman jason crow. he's a member of the house intelligence committee and he was speaking to my colleague andrea mitchell about the republican backlash to president biden's trip. >> it's really not even worth my brain space to spend time responding to fools. these people know nothing about national s

again, two of them were, one, andy biggs and taylor marjorie green. and so i don't have the other names of the individuals on hand. it was a democratic lawmaker out of delaware who was offering those individuals masks and, again, they denied that request and that offer. >> okay. those names should be duly noted. thank you. >>> coming up next, one of the country's leading white house reporters on the current mind set of the president and the concerns about what could come next. u need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. the moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base. claim your seventy-five-dollar credit when you post your first job at indeed.com/groomer you work hard for your money. stretched days for it. juggled life for it. took charge for it. so care for it. look after it. invest with the expertise of j.p. morgan, either with an advisor or online, through chase. after all, it's yours. chase. make more of what's yours. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ for every trip you've been dreaming of, expedia has millions of

this is about a letter said to congressman andy biggs. this is about information he seems to have about former white house official about an effort to seek presidential pardons for actions that republicans took to help trump overturn the 2020 results. >> yeah, that was one of the striking things in the letter that was sent to the congressmen a few weeks ago. remember, everyone who got a subpoena today had been asked in some cases twice to come before the committee and voluntarily cooperate and talk to them. they all declined. but in the letter that was send to biggs, that's one of the things that they charged that based on the interview they had done, they saw him not just talk with the white house about ways to overturn the 2020 election but seeking presidential pardons for the actions he could have taken to do that. that presupposes that those seeking presidential pardons new -- knew they were doing something criminal to be pardoned for. and now there are hundreds of interviews, documents and text messages. there are specific reasons wh

the five subpoenaed republicans include caucus leader kevin mccarthy, andy biggs of arizona, moe brooks of alabama, joe brooks of ohio, and scott perry of pennsylvania. all our allies of former president trump, and all refused to comply with earlier question invites to the committee to appear voluntarily. >> these are people who were involved in this discussions with the president. they were in communication with white house staff on january 6th, leading up to it, somewhere involved in the effort to overturn the election. someone spoke at the rally before the attack. one has said publicly that the president called him to rescind the election. >> the committee wants to talk to mccarthy, investigators want to know what's big snows about the stop the steal efforts. brooks can tell them more about trump's ongoing claims that he be returned to the white house. he is the one who urged people to quote, kick ass and take names at the rally just before the riot. he also most asked jordan about claims to overturn the election, and period but the plot to replace the acting u. s. attorney general.

andy biggs told politico i can't think of anybody better than somebody like a marjorie taylor greene. she doesn't have a committee. she could put a lot of time and effort into it. interesting take on idleness as a qualification. especially since biggs opposes a committee and says he plans to vote against it. he also happens to be one of the three house republicans name-checked by ali alexander, the organizer of the rally preceding the siege, as helping to plan it. for his part kevin hasn't even indicated if he will opt to select any republicans to serve on the select committee. and his number two, steve scalise, is actively encouraging republicans to vote no on the committee legislation. and joining me now, congressman raja krish that murthi of illinois. elie mistal, justice department correspondent for "the nation." and susan del perezio, msnbc political analyst. congressman krish that murthi, i want to start with you. speaker pelosi has made it clear she would reject mccarthy's picks to serve on the january 6th committee that she could reject them. this is how she answered when aske

i want to play for you representative andy biggs of texas who has whimsically spoken about lynching and in a negative way and who has a certain history in his politics. this is what he said. this is how he reacted to watching that testimony. take a look. >> i've got to tell you the most egregious thing that the democrats did today is they took a person, a young person, little mia who was traumatized two weeks ago, still suffering under obvious ptsd as she testified in that video and bringing that poor little girl to relive this. if we're talking about ptsd, you just prolonged the agony of that little child for what? for your own political gain, your own political purpose. this is despicable. >> and i guess he's implicating her parents who wanted her to testify an she did by video. that his reaction, brandon. are you as a survivor yourself have had to relive it, and i am, you know, will apologize in advance for having you on so much over the years. you've become one of my favorite people, dearest people, but you've had to relive it, you know, to help other people. what do you make of his

and the problem is when you have people like marjorie taylor greene, matt gaetz, paul gosar and andy biggs taking a lead on the messaging regarding the last election and moving forward into the next election and their silence from people like house republican leader kevin mccarthy who doesn't want to engage and doesn't want to silence them. you know, you see where the party is moving and it's giving democrats a big platform to run, garet? >> we've got to leave it there. phil, leann, axel, thank you for joining us. >> footing the bill, why a former ambassador who testified in former president trump's first impeachment probe is now suing mike pompeo and the federal government. this is "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. snbc what happens when we welcome change? we can make emergency medicine possible at 40,000 feet. instead of burning our past for power, we can harness the energy of the tiny electron. we can create new ways to connect. rethinking how we communicate to be more inclusive than ever. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change. f

representative andy biggs of arizona on the morning of january 6th? >> i did. >> with mr.would sign on both to a letter that been sent from my state and or that i would support the certification of the electors. i said i would. not >> would happen in the fall of 2020 is that 20,000 georgians did the presidential race and they voted down ballot to know the races. and the republican congressman and it of getting 33,000 more votes than president trump. that's why president trump came up short. >> secretaries are in with a could lawfully change result in the state of georgia and somehow explained it away as a recalculation? >> know the numbers are the numbers. the numbers don't lie. we have many allegations that we investigate every single one of them. and that jasmine team that we miss anything? >> i don't twitter, and i spoke to, and seeing months time. there's a particular tweet that for the better work was a straw that broke the camel's back. it had his name. you committed treason. may got have mercy on your soul. with a slowly twisting gift of a noose. and for lack of a b

and andy biggs who helps donald trump to try to overturn the 2020 election.att gaetz, who brought a holocaust in higher in his address. these are not popular political figures outside of their own deep red district and echo chambers, sometimes even -- donald trump. all three of them lost. the study found lake lost 35% of voters who most otherwise mostly voted republicans. masters lost more than 6%. finchem, about 8%. that is an enormous, enormous electoral penalty, as sort of maga attacks on these candidates. in a closely divided state, is not a resume for political success. and, of course, the supplies and the house, too, sure, people in the districts like marjorie taylor greene paul gosar, andy biggs, matt gaetz, they don't have to worry. but there are 18 republicans representing districts that joe biden won in 2020. and that includes george santos, new york's third district, good luck on that one. and then all 18 of these districts associating that brutality of the republican brand with, well, marjorie taylor greene, the one who's calling for treason charg

small parts of involvement like newt gingroom, people like alley alexander who were named like andy biggss participants. do you see -- is there anyone who stands out to you as somebody who would be the waltine nauta in the case, meaning if donald trump committed a conspiracy to obstruct and defraud the united states, that implies he did it with someone. so is there somebody who seems obvious to play waltine nauta's role here? >> i don't know if it's anybody on the list you just showed of people who testified before the grand jury. when a client gets a subpoena to testify before the grand jury, a good lawyer will call the prosecutor and ask, is my client a target? and usually, if the answer is yes, they tend not to come testify. so the fact they testified before the grand jury raises at least some inference that they are not likely to be targets. now, it could be that they came in and testified and lied and they're being charged with a crime or that they have some sort of a deal where they're going to plead guilty to some crime and not others. but i would be more curious about the people w

>> present. >> present. >> and matt rosendale, he had voted for andy biggs in the 14th vote.it didn't matter whether he did it again or not, but he voted present this time. he wasn't gonna do anything to hurt mccarthy at this point. because mccarthy has the votes to win. >> smiling ear to ear. he got the bottom line that he was looking for. the question now will be at what cost? let's bring kurt into this conversation. part, kevin mccarthy, it took 15 tries and now he has got it. what is your take? >> well, you're looking at stephanie, the weakest speaker. perhaps in united states history. the fact that someone could be held hostage by just a few amount of people within this caucus. does not bode well for getting things done in the future. and i think we are going to look back on this night, months from now, when the full faith and credit, united states is on the line. when the debt ceiling is hanging on the balance. and we are dangerous, defaulting on our current obligations. >> i'm so sorry, i'm a jump in. we're gonna continue this in the second. the clerk is grabbing the g