talks to olympia snowe all the time.etings he's doing, trying to patch together this whole thing. and then when they're not worried about that, you've got david axelrod making sure the massachusetts state legislature keeps moving that bill along so he can try to find yet one more vote because they're worried about -- first of all, it tells you they're worried about 60. this whole idea of reconciliation, i actually think that's really, really not as -- they're not going to do it that way. >> david, of course, we're hearing the name michael dukakis as a possible replacement for senator kennedy. >> right. he is certainly among the names of people who would be a good care taker until a special election after the first of the year. other names have been mentioned as well. but the priority for now the late senator kennedy and for his colleagues, his democratic colleagues, is to make sure it's a reliable democratic vote on health care. just to add on to chuck. i agree there's no question that all along, all this talk about reco

olympia snowe is the most likely to do that.side from simply putting a bipartisanship on, she could be critical to getting a filibuster. democrats would rather not have to use the special procedures we talked about on the air from time to time called reconciliation where they could jam it through with a majority, simple majority of the senate. if they have a vote to get past the filibuster and hold 59 democrats and add only olympia snowe, then they could do what they want to do in terms of the legislation. can they get her to do that? there were positive signals that suggest she might be willing to go along. >> yeah, i'm going to pick up a chunk of the interview and see your reaction to that. >> a whole bunch of democrats and one republican, olympia snowe. is that a bipartisan bill? >> obviously, i'm a republican, but i'd like to have more republicans -- >> you'd like to, but do you have to? >> i'm going to support the right policy. that's what guides me and governs me. it always has. >> i'm curious how fine a line she's walking

second, watch olympia snowe every minute of the speech. third, what about the word "reconciliation?" presidents don't like to get too technical on legislative processes in speeches like this. my bet is we might that hear that word, reconciliation. where there be code language in there that says to republicans, i am prepared to take this bill through the reconciliation process in the senate and the house which means i will only need 50 votes for final passage and i don't need republicans if you're not willing to play. is he going to make some kind of procedural threat about using reconciliation? >> i don't think you'll get in the weeds of procedure. you read the coded version of saying we're going to go it alone if we have to go it alone. he's already said that in the excerpt you have there. i think he's going to try to say things that are a i peeling to republicans. this is the -- this speech will be the last clear chance for republicans to get aboard some kind of bipartisan deal. there will be bones thrown to various republicans tonight,

it's olympia snowe. she's from maine. she's a moderate. she has quiet power over the whole debate. she's been talking to the president on the telephone and giving advice. he needs to drop the idea of a government run insurance plan and start where there's agreement and build from there. if they could win over olympia snowe, it could give cover to moderates of both parties that are unsure. they do not have olympia snowe's vote, but she's continuing to talk to the president about compromise. all eyes will be on her tonight. >> it brings us back to the white house and savannah guthrie. we're talking one republican senator om maine. we are talking act what's been dubbed the public option. kelly described it the guaranteed government backed insurance notion. that is really the technical term that a lot of the issue turns on tonight. >> reporter: it does. we will continue to see the president walk the careful line on the public option. he's going to make a strong pitch for it. it's the best way to increase the insurance market that will bring down costs. he's not going to make it a deal

the fact is he wasn't calling olympia snowe, because max baucus was dealing with a gang of six and olympiaowe is out there and she's a free agent, and i think that the obama administration cease her nota just as a free agent but as the 60 vote. they're on the 3 yard line. olympia snowe is key to that. >> you saw rockefeller there, we have to have this but be together. so see certain weakening on the left there. >> pat, you're a former white house communication's director. >> right. >> you know how this game is played. >> right. >> how about the president of the united states going out and doing five sunday shows? >> i wouldn't do it if i were here. i would put him on one. i would have put home a dated show, it's a top show. five show it's. >> and david's show is the best show. >> right. >> but they will ask him, what do you think of jimmy carter? what do you think of the instability going to? what do you think of this? and all of those things are frankly hotter seubjects for th evening nights for the bites than on barack obama more on the public option, which excuse me, is a bit of a bore

it is a speech to an audience of one, to olympia snowe.rectly yourself or have you all a left that just to max baucus? >> i can tell you max baucus as well as the others conrad and senator bingaman have been working with her a long time. she has shown extraordinary courage and leadership. she told her the bottom line. they are working with her. no commitments have been made, understand. at the end of the day we think there will be more than one republican senator joining us. we certainly hope so. this should be a bipartisan effort. we have given republicans every effort to help us craft this bill. we want to get it done on a bipartisan basis. >> senator, with all the focus on republican opposition to the public option and other elements it has masked how difficult your job as whip is in getting over 50 democrats to vote for any version of this thing t. truth of is you have democrats in your caucus not ready to go to the public option and not ready to go to the employer mandate and some of these new taxation elements invented by the ways an

we will talk live with a senator at the heart of the back and forth, republican senator olympia snowe. >>> rain can happen to anyone. >> from hollywood to capitol hill, crihristina ricci and sexl violence. she will join us live. >>> the 2008 campaign is over why is hillary clinton in the middle of a supreme court battle? we will look at how a decision from the court could change future presidential campaigns. >>> and until death do us part? well, not for one south carolina man who just couldn't let go of his '73 pontiac. it's no way. the big picture starts right now. good afternoon, everybody. good afternoon, tamron, i'm david shuster in washington. >> i'm tamron half the big picture this hour, will democrats move ahead with the health care bill without republican support? hours ahead of president obama's big speech at the joint session of congress, the chairman of the finance committee, chairman max baucus says he plans to bring a bill to the full committee next week with or without republican support. >> i very much hope and do expe expect them to be on board f there aren't any, i w

including charles grassley and olympia snowe, have not signed on to this. they have signaled that they may not, and as a consequence of that, the absence of republican votes prompted senate majority leader harry reid today to say that they could use a tool called reconciliation to get it through with 51 votes. here is how he put it. >> i hope that we do not have to do this. but if we can net -- cannot get 60 votes, we would have no choice but to do reconciliation. i strongly favor the bipartisan approach. >> that is what they all say, that they favor a bipartisan approach. but right now, reconciliation would really and republicans. -- really anger republicans. even some democrats do not like it. shepard: why bother with a compromise? >> now begins the problem with democrats, who are expressing misgivings over the cost of

. >>> on the front page this hour, senator olympia snowe, the last chance for bipartisan reform on health care. i sat down with the republican from maine to find out exactly where she stands. >> and then you can modify them so it is more important -- >> what is it like being at the center of the political universe? everybody wants to know what you're going to do, what you're thinking, a lot of pressure. how does it feel? >> well, the most important thing to me is to focus on the issue itself and whether or not it is the right policy, how best to improve it getting more facts, talking to my staff, talking to others, talking to people in maine. and others who are involved in the health care field. >> how much are you hearing from the president, from rahm emanuel, from all of the people at the white house? >> well, i have talked to the president on a number of occasions and i think the -- >> talk to him every day now? >> no, not every day. people do make that point, but, no, i don't. i talked to him last friday was the last conversation i had several times, all about issues. >> some of your

. >>> coming up, why the fight for 60 votes on health care is just turned maine senator olympia snowe into the most popular woman on capitol hill. >>> bill cosby talks about poverty, parenting and education and the important message our kids are trying to send. you're watching msnbc. your place for politics. carol, when you replaced casual friday with nordic tuesday, was it really for fun, or to save money on heat? why? don't you think nordic tuesday is fun? oh no, it's fun... you know, if you are trying to cut costs, fedex can help. we've got express options, fast ground and freight service-- you can save money and keep the heat on. great idea. that is a great idea. well, if nordic tuesday wasn't so much fun. (announcer) we understand. you need to save money. fedex kids who don't eat breakfast aren't getting the nutrition they need to keep their bodies strong. ( bell rings ) a nutritious start to the day is essential. that's why carnation instant breakfast essentials supplies all the nutrients of a complete breakfast. so kids get the protein and calcium they need to help build strong

senator olympia snowe, she wants a triggered option, whatever that is. also the conservative democrats are somewhere to the right of that. for more let me bring in roger simon, chief political columnist for politico. roger, scorecard, one to ten tonight. how did the president do on his media tour yesterday? >> i thought he did very well. i don't know if i can give it a number score. it's somewhere around eight i suppose. you know, he wanted to go on and put health care on the front burner once again. he got a lot of other questions and a lot of other subjects, but he, you know, he put that in the spotlight. did he get closer to narrowing it down to what bill he would sign and what bill he would veto? no. so that is why i think you can't give him any higher score than he got. >> well, the president refuses to be demanding at this point. after there's a declaration that they've got to hit the reset button, after republicans have put a line in the sand. i mean, when does the president get demanding on his own party? i find this very interesting. from this s

the white house is flirting with senator olympia sthnch owe who may vote on this bill.it's a fallback and not in the initial bill. that's the big flash point between the house and the senate. >> this is supposed to be about improving health care. why is the main committee about it, the senate finance committee, is congress more worried about paying for and then fill in the blank, or do they -- it seems backwards. >> i think it's because the committee previously acted, we're all pretty heavily liberal. people are looking at the finance committee as sort of a proxy for what the fight is going to look like on the senate floor. and essentially, if you can get something through this committee, the chances of getting something through the entire senate are pretty decent. gwen: ok, so bipartisanship which seems like a fantasy on some levels has come to be represented by one person and that's olympia snowe, the senator from maine who has left her hand print on this bill. >> she sure has. the other republicans sort of negotiating but really never did put anything on the table, o

you see olympia snowe and put up up with lieberman and nelson and mccaskill.s us a couple of things. number one, snowe is in play. we sort of known that and sort have seen it but this is her one public way of doing it. second, is that the democrats are going to need her, the president is going to need her to keep all of the democrats together. but take a listen to what olympia snowe said yesterday about her openness to the bill. >> obviously, i'm a republican but, you know, i'd like to have more republicans. >> you'd like to, but do you have to some. >> well, no. i'm going to support the right policy. i think that is what guides me and governs me. it always has. and i think the right policy will garner the votes. >> so as i said the end game is here. we see -- i think we all know how the movie is going to end. the question is what is going to be in the final bill? the movie is going to end and snowe is going to support it and democrats looking like they are coming together. but are they going to do to satisfy both snowe -- keeping snowe on board and keeping th

this was from olympia snowe earlier today. listen to this, bob. >> this is about doing our job. if it takes two more weeks, it takes two more weeks. i mean, we are talking about trillions of dollars in the final analysis. i do not understand it. what is happening? what is the rush? is it the columbus day recess? it is not clear. neil: i think it is the columbus day recess. the argument could be that you lose someone like olympia snowe, a until now has been leaning towards reform, or at least a the broadest aspects of the vision by the president, -- or at least the broadest aspects of the vision by the president, and now, she is getting yhency -- anxious. >> they want to have these in order to give the faÇade or the patina of a bipartisan bill. much more problematic are the blue dog democrats that they stand to lose it sufficient outside pressure comes to bear from senior groups -- is sufficient out the pressure comes to bear from senior groups -- if sufficient pressure comes. if they lose that support, then they are really in trouble, because that puts them below the 60-vote thr

might strike close to home to olympia snowe, lost her own mother at the age of 8 to cancer. also, olympia snowe is relatively safe politically, i think she is not up again until 2012. last two elections, she has won by significant margins. none the less, this is what we have seen, seen some of the groups go after moderate democrats as well in ben nelson. hard to see whether or not they are going to have an effect. it could backfire in some says, contessa. >> mike viqueira, thank you, buddy. >> you're welcome. >>> if you have groups buying ads, trying to persuade lawmakers, perhaps their money would be better spent on those moderate democrats who right now are the real obstacles to accomplishing public option, at least in the senate. >> at the same time, i think certainly keep an idea, running ads against fellow democrats isn't the best use of time and resources. >> is okay, she's republican, run all the ads you want. >> i guess. the bottom line, urging her to support a public option, which as you have mentioned, many moderate democrats don't support anyway, i don't think mos

if they push it at tt and, can they hold on to the more conservative democrats and olympia snowe? can they do thatithout the puic option? it all gets hammere out in e conferen committee if they can get something through the sete. it is rely complicated. >> charles, the insurance companies like this. >> it is a mouse, then it ithe larges mouse ever seen. unbelievably complicated there wil be people whnow cannot afford insance willet subsidizedr forced in paying for insurance. s, it works for the insurance companies. am not surit is gng to pass, because the one thi about the baucus bilis that it host in the sense thathe cbo has said it is revenue- neutral, which means that it shows how expsive it is. is going to cost middle-clas people, it is goingto cost of e young, it is going ost huge amountsf subsidies, and all the taxes that areoing to be iosed on the iurance companies will be passed on in hier premiums. at is what youhave all the sqwking on the left an the right. finay, the costs areut there, and they are huge. there is one thing it does not do, create cpetition, evan. there a

if they push it at that end, can they hold on to the more conservative democrats and olympia snowe?hey do that without the public option? it all gets hammered out in the conference committee if they can get something through the senate. it is very complicated. >> charles, are the insurance companies like this -- do the insurance companies like this? >> it is a mouse, then it is the largest mouse ever. it is unbelievably complicated. the insurance companies do not like it because of the constraints. there will be people who now cannot afford insurance that will get some support -- subsidized or will be forced into paying for insurance. yes, it works for the insurance companies. i am not sure it will pass because the one thing about the baucus bill is it is honest in the sense that the cbo says it will be neutral which shows how expensive it is. it or cost middle-class people. it will cost the young people. it will cost huge amounts of subsidies. all the taxes are born to be imposed on the insurance companies and be passed on to our premiums. that is what is happening on the left in t

you told me you have a seat next to senator olympia snowe. >> correct. is very he did down there. greta: what happened this morning? >> senator baucus is under a lot of pressure. his leadership as telling him to hurry up and get this done. the rest of us are saying wait a minute. this is a big deal. it affects lives, so we need to do it right. sometimes, when we tried to get something fleshed out to understand it fully, to ask questions -- when we try to get something fleshed out, he tries to shut us up, basically, and he gaveled me even before i had a chance to make an argument on an important point. he thought we had a vote on the senate floor and we had to hurry up. that was not true, so he needs to calm down and let the senators debate this said the american people can understand what is in this. greta: ok, you are a signer of a letter to the secretary of hhs. you want a gag order lifted. what is it that you say that she is gagging? >> she is the secretary of health and human services and has jurisdiction over the entity that controls medicare and me

they are looking at the main senators, olympia snow and others.hey could look at voinovich and the like down the line, but they're looking to get that. the key thing that i would differ with steve on is this -- that they don't believe that the american people understand what has been said, that the president will meet with his advisors at the white house today and the advisors are saying most americans wanted healthcare reform but when they talk about obama's plan, it is a push to the negative. tonight they will actually hear the facts, what president obama is proposing. that is the game changer that they want. bret: steve, the tort reform, whatever it becomes, because it is a little saying in the report right now, is not in the bill, in language in what ever comes out of congress, is it anything that can attract republicans? >> no, i don't think so. the p president usually does this effectively. i saw him in december 2007 pitching to republicans or conservatives saying, look, you have valid points. you're making valid points here. i'm just going

those are baucus' negotiating partners, not really the republicans anymore especially -- except for olympia snow, and even snowe when i interviewed her this week said i want more subsidied for low and middle income people. can they find money for that? what do you think is going to happen on that? >> the other thing that senator baucus put on his bill that's a new twist is this big tax on what they call cadillac insurance policies. but they're really not that cadillac according to so many people. he's looking at an $8,000 policy for an individual. we know that many unions, the average policy in this country is up around $12,000. so it's a tax that could potentially hit a lot of people. to your question about is there room to increase thesubsidies, there's always room for a little bit of horse trading. we're really just getting into the fun right now. this is just the first year, what's called a chairman's mark when he puts down his ideas. all next week there's going to be all kinds of amendments going on out in public and bind closed doors. gwen: i think there is a sense that some form of t

republican senator olympia snow is here in the studio. the demonstrators who poured on to the industries of washington yesterday capped off an angry summer. it saw the president's popularity go down as tempers went up. even on the floor of congress where a back bencher congressman called the president a liar. as the president was calling for unity. i want to go first to david axelrod this morning. mr. axelrod, what do you make of this demonstration yesterday on the streets of washington? do you think it's indicative of the nation's mood and what message do you have this morning for those people who were on the streets here yesterday. >> first of all, bob, i don't think it's indicative of the nation's mood. in fact i don't believe that some of the angriest, most strident voices we saw during the summer were representative of the thousands of town hall meetings that went on around the country that came off peacefully, that were constructive. people voicing their points of view. but one of the great things about our country is people can exp

. >> reporter: when we first met olympia rovino, she had lost her job as an executive assistant at a pharmaceutical company and she was fear. >> you worry. >> reporter: today, one year later, she is one of 15 million americans still looking for full-time work. >> those jobs i posted for. >> reporter: has applied for hundreds of office jobs. but the only offers have paid less than what she gets on unemployment. you were worried, will i be able to survive? what's the answer to that? >> what's the answer to that? the answer is, you can survive. you can do things. >> reporter: she gets by mostly on unemployment. vacations, even discount theater tickets are out. >> now i'm realizing i was very well paid. >> reporter: and she fights the blues by volunteering at a local nursing home. do you enjoy it when this lady comes to visit? >> it's wonderful. >> reporter: olympia now hopes her volunteer job will be a paid one. >> i didn't think i'd get this much out of it. >> reporter: when ck hirst lost his job at microsoft in january, he knew he'd have a hard time finding another one as good. he's f

chief among them, olympia snowe, a centrist republican from maine. she has a telephone relationship with the president most republicans cannot say they have. a direct line to try to bring her ideas, represent republicans to the president, and to also have the one-on-one relationship to try to convince mr. obama that there is some way to get republicans on board. it has not been successful yet. olympia snow says she told the president she needs to put aside a government-run option for health insurance. at least at this time. and to focus on areas where there is common ground in order to change the direction. other names that are important, chuck grassley of iowa, and they are staying at the table. many thought republicans would have bailed by now, completely rejecting e ongoing nversation, the key senators are part of what we know as the gang of six say they will stay at the table and try to find some way to sort out some common ground. a pretty big divide on key issues. brian. >> the state of maine so interesting politically. the other senator there

republican senator olympia snowe. here's the report.ello, john. >> the senior republican from maine may be the most important member of the u.s. senate on health care. she's not yet saying how she's going to vote but everybody is looking for signals and body language as to whether she wants to work with barack obama and democrats to get this dpen done. if you want to see a reason for the white house to be optimistic, consider this signal she sent when i asked whether she consider os bama a big government liberal? >> it's interesting, i don't. almost the opposite. he's been very realistic in his views on health care, understanding the implications. >> do you see him as a moderate? >> more moderate than liberal. >> are you satisfied that the cost control, cost containment in the bill is adequate? >> i do. and, you know, we were odd manhattan in our -- you know, our positions and views that it should be budget neutral and if anything should bend the cost curve. and then the overall cost of, you know, the escalation, you know, of inflation

senator olympia snowe has certain expectations. a lot of questions about whether progressive democrats are going to like what they're going to hear tonight. we'll give you a complete wrapup coming up. you are watching "the big picture" on msnbc. so many arthritis pain relievers -- i just want fewer pills and relief that lasts all day. take 2 extra strength tylenol every 4 to 6 hours?!? taking 8 pills a day... and if i take it for 10 days -- that's 80 pills. just 2 aleve can last all day. perfect. choose aleve and you can be taking four times... fewer pills than extra strength tylenol. just 2 aleve have the strength to relieve arthritis pain all day. but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. i'm bill kurtis, and i've got plenty of room for the internet. and the nation's fastest 3g network. gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. with built-in access to the nation

mean that the white house is working overdrive with baucus, the conservative democrats, and, again, olympianowe still remains key on this even though she wasn't part of this, a sort of straight party line vote except for democrats coming over to vote against the public option. i think that, you know, i guess there is talk this they may want to offer something on the floor. it's going to be a tough road. this was a big day for the baucus bill. >> as far as republicans, do you believe if the bill moves forward and does not have the public option that that is enough to get at least one republican like olympia snowe to get on board? >> well, david, it depends on what it looks like. there are so many different variables in this whole debate. one thing this vote does is freezes a lot of the conservative democrats in the house, makes it much more difficult for nancy pelosi to pass a bill, which i think is interesting. it's also called into question why is the president going to copenhagen when he's got this rebellion within his ranks with democrats on democrats. i don't think it's a surprise the p

. >> olympia snowe says she hasn't made up her mind.e matter is however she has made it very clear if this increases the deficit she is going to be against it. republicans across the board said they are against a government-run health insurance option. that's the conservative position. including olympia snowe they are not going for it listen to one other prominent republican weighing in. >> this is still more and more government takeover of our healthcare system and that's something that myself and i think most republicans oppose. >> olympia snowe did today commend max baucus for his efforts. like every other republican no one has signed on to it yet. shepard: what happens if the baucus plan dies? >> then they are back to the public option that the administration wants and liberal democrats want. there are auto a total of five bills. the other four have the so-called public option on it if the baucus bill goes down, it's public option or bust which means the partisan lies will be all the deeper and the likelihood of finding any kind of

senator olympia snowe. she spoke to one person about what she's thinking. john harwood has that information. >> everybody's wondering whether or not olympia snowe is going to perhaps provide the 60th vote on the legislation in the next few weeks. she's not yet saying how she's going to vote. when i sat down with her yesterday, she offered encouraging clues. in particular, she said the thought president obama was a moderate, not liberal, on health care. she thought it was financially responsible in terms of its impact on the deficit. she also thought her republican party has moved away from her. >> it's interesting, i don't. in fact, i sense the opposite. he's the -- been very realistic in his views on health care. understanding the implications. >> do you see him as a moderate? >> more moderate than liberal. >> are you satisfied that the cost containment in the bill is add quaut? >> i do. we were adamant in our positions, it should be budget neutral and then the escalation of inflation within health care. and it does begin that trend in the first ten years.

host: let me read a quotation from olympia snowe. the republicans consider -- considered most likely to sign on to the plan, senator olympia snowe, said she will wait to hear what the president has to say. caller: right, and to meet the lady is attempting to use some common sense. one thing we're not hearing much about, it seems like people are wanting to get this business of medicare, part of social security involved. if you live in places like new york, baltimore, minneapolis, it seems like there's not much problem. people refer to that as a public option and i guess it is to a certain extent. but people in rural areas do not often experience that. if you cannot get a physician, call it whenever, you will not receive health care. i'm willing to listen to president obama tonight. i'm undecided. it seems to me we need to straighten out the problems that already exist with our so-called public options before embarking on a new program. i appreciate you letting me share my thoughts, steve. host: our coverage will get under way at 7:30

so i think democrats have reason to be optimistic to what olympia snowe is doing is using the leverage she has as somebody they need to get the most changes she wants. by the way, that baucus bill, as you know, has a co-op provision, which many democrats consider meaningle meaningless. she supports a triggered public option. >> the only thing about the trigger is who's going to determine when it's not working and what's the time frame there? that would be kind of tough to watch with a lot of people still struggling in their lives. one final point, john, because you interviewed the president on numerous occasions. is he out to make news this weekend on the talking heads with all these interviews that he's doing because of what jimmy carter said, to get that out of the news, maybe it's time to draw that line in the sand and the president be very definitive in what he wants in a bill. what do you think? >> i would expect the president will do everything he can to deflect talk of race. with all the fights he's taking on politically, i don't think he wants to get in a pro-tracted race discu

so when you referred to some additional support from people like olympia snowe, her position has not changed. she is not supporting this piece of legislation as it is now. but what she is saying is that she still wants to keep working and she commends the process. remember, max baucus has had a rough 24 hours in terms of how he's been criticized in public and they've been working together for months and months and months. so this was a way to commend what they have been trying to do, to have sort of a good spirit about it as they go forward. because now they're going to sick right back down and get right back to work. so this was one of those kind of nice olive branch moments saying, we can still work on this. >> kelly, that's important to point out as senators nelson and capper know, it's not about extending an ego. or is it just saying he did a good job, or does it suggest he may have additional saw port? >> i think people recognized he put himself as the front and center of this. as the chairman of this powerful committee, he has had to shoulder this. and i think it is the sort of

bill, not saying they support it, but come on, we know what the hidden message is here, basically, olympia snow is signing on with a group of three other moderate democrats saying, okay, i can work with this bill. >> pretty significant. nbc's chuck todd with that new information. chuck, as always, thanks so much. >> you got t. >>> let's take that new information and to the bigger picture now. michelle obama will be taking up the issue of health care reform. the first lady will be holding an event tomorrow talking to women and families about the health care system. right now, she is focusing on healthy eating, because mrs. obama say tending the opening of a farmer a's market near the white house at this moment. david trucker, a staff reporter at role call. good afternoon to you, david. >> good afternoon. >> let's talk about the first lady's role in all of this suspect the first time we have heard the first lady talking health care. will she be talking about the details in the bill or just the need for reform? >> yeah, i expect her to just talk about the need for reform. first ladies don't u

but olympia sno, as i said earlie, mig. so i he changes perceptionsut there-- and i don'know that he did, i susct he did-- at's very important, charlie th makes the insid game easier and i uld just go and jump in on this. i had just read about mecare. i wasn't around th, joe. t in reading about that medicare debate, whichis fascinatin that wasn't as easy... lyndon was a a magician but wilbu millswent through all kinds machinions. it took months a monthsand months of changes. that wasn't a simple, easy process. >> no, it wasn't. fairness remember joson real playedills. but think about it. in 1964, in those days social security increases were not automatic. the congress voted them every year just... every two years just before they wen home. johnson got the medare bill attaed to the social security incrse that passed the senate, wilb mills had the social securityncrease in the house he wouldn take it. johnsonliterally killed the social security increase to build up pressure for medicare the next yea i meanyou have to understa

. >> at lunch today, max indicated he was cautiously optimistic that he might get support of olympia snowe, all the snow wanted to wait to see what the president had to say tonight, but he felt good about his conversations with her. also, i would expect the president tonight -- i was with his chief of staff earlier today -- to specifically enumerate five or six ideas that have been advocated by republicans, including campaigned on by senator mccain in the campaign last fall, that he has embraced, that will be part of the package. including some aspects of tort reform. as i think you're going to see him reach out and say he would much prefer this to be a cooperative venture. that is by far and away the ideal way to do. neil: that might be the ideal way, but it looks increasingly like it will not be the way, but to maybe save olympia snowe. kiddie still collet bipartisan? >> one is better than none, but probably not enough to say it was a robust bipartisan effort. but the bottom line is they have really made an effort, and the bottom line is what will this do for the american people? w

they were negotiating with senator olympia snowe. maybe they get her and one other, but the real game is with the democrats. and what he did last night was he did what liberal allies wanted him to do, get tough, get strong, call out republicans. and again, the gift of joe wilson, aside from realizing the problem, he talks about lack of civility in washington and in our major institutions bringing the tone of the town halls into the u.s. congress. i think american citizens should be worried about that. beyond that, it allowed the president to be more dismissive of the right. it gets the left fired up. and in getting fired up, it is to say, we have to work together to make sure we keep the middle here, because we've got to focus on the end game, which is getting reform done. and getting reforms, insurance reforms, universal coverage that are hugely important and that were elusive for decades. >> and chuck, when you look at trying to deal with the democratic party, you've got steny hoyer and nancy pelosi not agreeing, really, on how imp

if olympia snowe gets her way, jay rockefeller will vote against the bill. if jay rockefeller gets his way, olympia snowe will vote against the bill over the public option whether it will be real and in place or triggered. the other one that's been ignored is blanch lincoln. she is possibly the most conservative democrat. she's from arkansas. she's in a tough re-election situation there next year. she has not been forced to comment and take hard positions on any of these things. she has come out against the cap and trade bill passed by the house of representatives. she is definitely the one to watch in terms of the ability to be peeled off by republicans for some of their amendments and possibly vote against this bill on its way to final passage. if chairman baucus loses jay rockefeller for final passage of the bill in the committee, he needs every democrat. he can't lose one. blanch lincoln is very iffy. >> senator lincoln with a huge ratio of health sector donations compared to overall election donations. thanks, lawrence. >> thanks. >> for more on the 564

. >> the one republican who does seem to be a player is olympia snowe out of maine. you'll see max baucus go off on s own, introduce a bill and probably olympia snowe might be the only republican willing to play ball with that. >> a lot of theater. >>t. ghri >> thanks, mark. gnu in about 30 mi w s,te te's,ake a closer lo hokth a a realtrecaeform quseson oti inreur community. plus watch the i president's address live here on celnnha 4. nbc coverage with brian williams begins tonight at 8:00. >>> news4 at 5:00 getting started. torrential rain and deadly floods. we'll find out where those rising waters ravaged an entire community. >> be prepared, the flu is spreading. we have a guide to keep your family healthy. >> breaking ground. the biggest federal construction project since the pentagon. >>> first we want to share another moment to honor walter cronkite. we look at the new orleans style tribute led by trumter martin marsallas. ♪ >>> the large number 8 on the back of the statue calipken jr was stolen last night. it was displayed in front of baltimore camden yards. po

he, i interviewed olympia snowe this week and olympia snowe had very positive things to say about barack obama which suggest that she might be there with democrats either on a cloture vote or some other critical vote they need to try to get this through. >> so he will not lose any democrats? >> i think he may lose democrats on the vote on passage for the bill am but he has a better chance of holding democrats on a filibuster vote. that's where snow is so critical. if you decide that reconciliation is too complicated and difficult and you want to survive a filibuster, you need to hold all your 59 democrats and then add one more. and i think there are some signals from olympia snowe. it's not determined yet that she might be willing to cast that 60th vote to get past the filibuster and then if you did that, some of the democrats, nelson and some other more moderate and conservative democrats might actually vote against the bill on final passage but it wouldn't matter once you got over that filibuster threshold. >> come back to the question of what the president had been talking about. the

olympia snowe is her being there, it allows them to say, there are some republicans there. george, can i respond to the deficit point, the third most powerful person in this town, besides the president and ben bernanke is doug aldedorf, he has found the baucus bill, has a surplus and also, he has found and he doesn't count the public insurance option at all. >> george, it might be the right thing to do, but if these provisions that jay rockefeller are calling for to add money back into the bill, doug will have to make another decision. >> i think, there will have to further cuts. the cbo in scoring, what's on the byrd bill and not, doug and his crew are going to decide whether, and to what extent a public insurance option can be scored in terms of saving the competition. they'll find nothing. there's no analogy. >> on the basis on what experience do you believe congress is going to cut medicare? >> i think congress is going to not cut medicare but, wait a minute, it's going to put some dampen on some of the increases on medicare spending over times. >> there's a lot of focu

olympia snow, who might be the 60th vote to beat a filibuster, is somebody that favors that idea. >> tell me more about fighting the new setback? >> well, his poll numbers are down. he was in the 60s earlier this year, and now he is in the 50s. he has an unemployment rate, as you know, went to 9.7% on friday which makes it easier for critics to say the plan is not working. he has a way to tackle that. of course the most difficult think of all is health care, which is why the speech on wednesday night is so important. he has to get that over the goal line. it's credit come, as you said, a moment ago to the success of his presidency. >> even if the speech goes well over in congress is that enough? >> no. it's not going to be enough. what he has to do is define a sweet spot so people in the house who are prepared to vote for him, he has a large majority in the house, they know they will not go out on the limb by th themselves. he needs to try to define a package. they have been reluctant to do that, especially in the finance committee, and he needs to set parameters. and the house is li

will olympia snowe offer that up?l see. >> that or break up the monopoly and stop giving any trust exemption which is beyond me why we give a monopoly to health insurance companies. ron wyden is with us. james klein president of the american benefits council and against wyden's free choice amendment. bear in mind choice is you would be able to leave the employer-based program if you so desire. also with us is jonathan capehart of "the washington post" and arianna huffington, chief of the huffington post. senator wyden, where do you stand politically with you efforts to get liberation and choice for americans to try to get health care for themselves? >> i think we're making some real headway. what you got to say is if somebody doesn't like their health care plan, if they are entrapped, they don't like it, they still shouldn't have a choice. i don't think that's right. what we are doing with our proposal is importing the principal of choice into the employer-based system and strengthening the hands of the workers and im

plus, republican senator olympia snowe may be the key lawmaker in health care reform. what will get to take her to sign onto a bill. >>> but first, the most active stocks on the new york stock exchange, led by citigroup, up about 5% on this day. >>> welcome back to the "closing bell." the housing bubble deflates, causing destruction on a scale the world has never seen. products plummet in value. bear stearns fails. lehman goes bankrupt. freddie, fannie and aig become words of the government and ordinary americans lose. after all the pain, who gets punished. so far, just two hedge fund managers face charges. our on-air editor charlie gasparino joins us now. charlie, it was getting a little depressing running through that long list there. >> you needed to take a breath halfway through. >> no kidding. let's talk about these two guys. one of them i recall, is it tannen and -- >> chaffey and tanner. lots of e-mail traffic that seems to suggest that, you know, they believed one thing they were trying to get people to stay in the hedge funds and subprime mortgages, subprime d

. >> and i want to look at the health reform bill and the olympia snowe factor, because if she signsthe bill right now, does she have the political weight and the political savvy to bring other republicans with her? >> not with her diplomatic skills, but she could give some cover, but not a great deal. at this point it's going to be substantive, and that's what the negotiations are about. i don't think that since she's on board there's suddenly going to be a flood of republicans. >> ann cornbleau, as always, thank you. >>> for your doaily dose of all things political, you can log on to firstread.msnbc.com. >>> now we take you to a fruit stand, still. this is how it looked in albuquerque after a semitruck carrying loads of fruit hit a highway median. talk about a mess there. it still stopped traffic in both directions, fortunately no one husband hurt, but there were a lot of pieces of bruised fruit. okay, but i don't want to pay too much. don't worry about it. we'll match those other stores' prices. and we'll deliver and hook it up for free. okay. last question. if you guys are here,

senator olympia snowe reports that. senator collins mentioned it on the show. when you do that, you bring costs down for everybody, and that's actually one area where democrats and republicans agree. >> the president is about to enter into the chamber. i think the best thing we can do is let them take over. >> the president of the united states! [ applause ] >> there you can see president obama making his way. he's going to take a few minutes. he's going to enjoy the applause and shake a lot of hands as you probably noticed. that's republican leader mitch mcconnell. senator majority leader harry reid is right behind him. mr. obama will work the aisles as presidents always do. george w. bush loved working the aisles and basking in the adulation. there's no reason why president obama shouldn't operate the same way. in front of him, of course, is the sergeant of arms who announced his coming into the chamber. let us just watch some more. you may recognize some of the faces and maybe your own congressman or congresswoman. let's just listen to the applause and the a