i think, first of all, islamophobia is not a meem. it has impact.everal things beingulaibeing ullacking from this conversation. there's no muslim folk in that conversation. number two, is a sense of the way in which government and poverty and economics shape the ways people think. we talk about saudi arabia. remember, that's the government using islam to oppress women. the government of the united states has done things to oppress folks too. so if you narrow it down to the so-called extremists or to terrorists, you cannot confuse those folks with islam proper. i think ben affleck is right here. but there are too many things missing from the conversation. economics, government critique and people who practice islam. >> dean, what about that? as you said, bill maher has been a patron saint of liberals for so long? what do you think he's missing here? some people will say he's brave because he's thinking about a self-critical perspective of literals who are loathe to criticize islam on one hand -- >> i'm a muslim and people are free to criticize us. th

>> i'm well educated on this. >> you're saying islamophobia is not a real thing?t saying certain people aren't biggoted against muslims as people. and that's a problem. >> that's big of you. it's gross, it's racist. >> but it's so not. >> it's not like saying you're a shifty jew. >> if you want to be liberal, freedom of speech, we're endowed with our forefathers and all men are created equal. >> we have to be able to criticize bad ideas. >> of course we do. >> but islam is the mother load of bad ideas. this is hot stuff, we'll have more on this fight coming up next in the round table. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. you do a lot of things great. but parallel parking isn't one of them. you're either too far from the curb. or too close to other cars... it's just a matter of time until you rip some guy's bumper off. so, here are your choices: take the bus. or get liberty mutual insurance. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. see car insurance in a whole new light. call liberty mut

. >> you're saying that islamophobia is not a real thick? you're critical of something -- >> it's not a real thing when we do it. [ laughter ] it really isn't. >> i'm not denying certain people are biggoted against muslims as people and that's a problem. >> that's big of you. >> it's racist. >> but it's so not. >> it's like saying -- >> we have to be able to criticize bad ideas. >> of course we do. >> but islam is the mother load of bad ideas. >> krystal this is a powerful exchange, but it led to a question. how do we deal with the culture and religion in the middle east? what's your reaction? >> my immediate reaction is, i have such a liberal crush now on ben affleck. i thought he was amazing throughout the show and so strong there. what he was objecting to, you can't say this is how muslims are, and this is what all muslims believe. i mean, the muslim world is huge. it's divorcerse. >> there's a big debate. >> exactly. so to say this is what islam is, this is what muslim people are and we have to attack that, i have a big problem with that

>> i'm well educated on this. >> you're saying islamophobia is not a real thing?t saying certain people aren't biggoted against muslims as people. and that's a problem. >> that's big of you. it's gross, it's racist. >> but it's so not. >> it's not like saying you're a shifty jew. >> if you want to be liberal, freedom of speech, we're endowed with our forefathers and all men are created equal. >> we have to be able to criticize bad ideas. >> of course we do. >> but islam is the mother load of bad ideas. this is hot stuff, we'll have more on this fight coming up next in the round table. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. that's right. it's just that i'm worried about you know "hidden things..." ok, why's that? no hidden fees, from the bank where no branches equals great rates. watch this. sam always gives you the good news in person, bad news in email. good news -- fedex has flat rate shipping. it's called fedex one rate. and it's affordable. sounds great. [ cell phone typing ] [ typing continues ] [ whoosh ] [ cell phones buzz, chirp ] and we have

two video bloggers got press after posting a video they said showed the islamophobia of the police department. it shows the guys wearing western clothes arguing and pushing each other, as the cop stands by and does nothing. and then the pair did the same thing but dressed in muslim garb and get the same reaction. >> you need to leave. >> what are you arguing about? why are you dressed like this? what is this? it looks like there's a disturbance over here. get against the wall. hands up. put them up. open your legs. open your legs. >> i don't have nothing. i'm not doing anything. >> get against the wall. put your hands up, spread your legs. >> look, look, look. >> [ bleep ]. >> mind your business. >> the video was tweeted out by the council on american islamic relations and picked up by "the huffington post" and called ate small glimpse into the world of racial profiling, which was not real. the cop smearing dopes came clean admitting it was a hoax. >> it was a dramaization. we just want to bring awareness to the world. our intention was not to make the nypd look bad. if you feel it was such,

we have been sold this islamophobia every criticism of the doctrine of islam gets conflated with bigri muslims of people. that's ridiculous. >> are you the one who officially understands the islam. >> i'm actually well educated on this topic. >> you are saying if i criticize. you say islam phobia is not a real thing if you are critical of something. >> it's not a real thing when we do it. >> i'm not denying that certain people are dig bigoted against muslims as people and that's the problem. >> billing of you. >> are you so hostile about this concept. >> it's racist. >> it's so not. >> like your shifty just. >> you guys are saying if you want to be liberal believe in liberal principles like. we are endowed by forefathers all men are created equal. >> we have to be able to criticize bad ideas. >> islam is the mother load of bad ideas. >> jeesh. >> how about the more than a billion people who aren't fanatical who don't finish women who want to go to school. >> wait a second. >> all muslims. >> wait, wait, wait. wait. >> painting the whole religion. >> no, no. let's get down to who has

i know what he said about islamophobia but he would have said the same thing about evangelicals. is a problem with radical islam. a huge problem. people that distort and twist the teachings. >> i think there's a fund mental problem with extremism. it is important to have a debate as to why extremism exists, where it comes from, why this problem is prevalent. i have a major problem with people like bill maher and those trying to say it is because of their religion and not because of the way people are interpreting and applying their religion. these are societies and when we talk about the muslim world it's a vast area, different problems. i mean you can't just say the muslim world and reference indonesia and algeria and turkey and bosnia. >> but let me ask you this, just let me push a little further to make people uncomfortable, what's a greater threat to civilization, christian extremism, jewish extreechlism or muslim extremism. >> to civilization. >> yes. >> around the world? >> rit large. >> good luck answering that question. >> how much time do we have? >> i mean look -- >> jo

you can use bigotry, islamophobia, xenophobia. middle eastern or an arab thing, despite the fact that arabs make up something like 17%, 18% of the world's muslim population, the issue of race has sort of become married to the larger issue of religion. when bill maher says something to the effect of those american muslims are bringing that, quote, desert stuff into our country, there is something deeply racist about that comment. it's not just an anti-religious comment. >> anti-desertist. >> that's good. >> so there's a bunch of different strands around this. i thought your op ed was remarkably clear headed about this. i want to cite this poll that bill maher and sam who was on bill maher built a lot of this around. a pew research poll conducted in 2013 of different views. this is views of egyptian muslims. 74% say sharia should be official law. that's sort of ckoraniccally defined law. and 86% favor death penalty for converts. now that's a troubling polling result. i think both you and i would agree, right? >> the second number is

they don't focus on islamophobia. they don't focus on women. they should.ot at buying 30-second ads and go after the one thing that will stir up their voters. >> we're not talking about ads, i'm just talking about long-term ideology. media matters, who makes a habit -- it's almost their only focus is attacking fox and fox personalities. >> and making it up. >> and they'll twist it and turn some words around and then rewrite the piece to make it look like someone says something. >> and they'll put a headline that's inaccurate, erroneous and shapeful. >> yet, they call themselves a 501 c 3 or 4 or tax-exempt organization, which is ludicrous. >> and that is that. when we come back, is the obama administration secretly planning to grant amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants? stay tuned. [ male announcer ] tomcat bait kills up to 12 mice, faster than d-con. what will we do with all of these dead mice? tomcat presents dead mouse theatre. hey, ulfrik! hey, agnar! what's up with you? funny you ask. i'm actually here to pillage your town. [ villagers screaming ]

i was also accused by the same woman of stoking islamophobia by bringing to attention the human rightse example of silencing islamists try to pursue when muslims like me engage in public dialogue. >> is that a tactic? we've seen almost every time we do a subject on this -- we get all kinds of reports from cair, we're islamo phobic and everything else. >> exactly. it's an absolutely, i'd say malignant strategy. and very few people are brave enough to confront this. risk of all kinds of consequences. but calling me islamophobic, own evidence of their own delegitimizing. nowhere in the talk did i defame islam in any way. in fact, i got the muslim component of the audience to engage with me on islam. and they yet were waiting to attack the credibility of myself and your frequent contributor brooke goldstein on our identities. >> it's incredible. trying to draw attention to violence against women in some factions of the muslim world, which you would think most would be in agreement on, most who don't practice. doctor, great to see you. thank you, ma'am. >> thank you so much. >>> well, all e

. >> the crucial point of confusion is that we have been sold this meme of islamophobia where every criticismthe doctrine of islam gets conflated with bigotry toward muslims as people. >> right. >> and that is -- it's intellectually ridiculous. >> so hold on. are you the person who understands the officially codified doctrine of islam? you can say this is -- >> i'm actually well educated on this topic. >> why are you so hostile about this? >> it's gross. it's racist. >> it's not. but it's so not. >> it's like saying you shifty jew. >> absolutely not. >> you're listening to what we are saying. >> you guys are saying if you want to be liberals believe in liberal principles like freedom of speech, like -- >> right. >> -- we are endowed by our forefathers with inalienable rights, all men are created equal. >> we have to be able to criticize bad ideas. >> of course. >> but islam is the mother lode of bad ideas. >> mother lode of bad ideas. sam harris is here with me tonight. he's the author of "waking up: a guide to spirituality without religion." i'm sure you've seen that a lot. you created a fir

you're saying that islamophobia is not a real thing. >> reporter: trouble began on the set of "real timeand the author said more liberals needed to speak out about muslims' freedom to practice islam. >> it's the mother lode of bad ideas. >> geez. >> that's a fact. >> it's not a fact. it's an ugly thing to say. >> reporter: affleck heating up as the conversation turned to a fierce debate about jihadists role in islam. the video reaching over 3 million views online alone. >> it's the only religion that acts like the mafia that will [ bleep ] kill you if you say the wrong thing. draw the wrong picture, or write the wrong book. >> reporter: affleck receiving praise on twitter. one person writing, i love ben affleck even more now. such a beautifully constructed answer to the islamophobics. while others are siding with maher. ben affleck is wrong in this. you can criticize a religion without being racist. >> i disagree. >> and we're not convincing anybody. >> reporter: for "good morning america," t.j. holmes, abc news, new york. >> an issue like that stirs up emotions. >> oh, yes. >>> "pop new