d.a. willise charging recommendations in that report secret intel today. you might remember that after d.a. willis's special grand jury finished its investigation, this woman, the foreperson of that special grand jury, emily kohrs, she did a bunch of tv interviews in which she sort of tiptoed around who was on the list of people that the grand jury thought d.a. willis should indict. but emily kohrs barely clearly wanted to spill the beans. >> so we are talking about multiple people. >> yes. >> how many people was the so long list? >> it's not a short list. . it's not a short list. we saw 75 people. there are six pages of the report come out. i think. if you look at the page numbers. so it's not -- >> so we're talking about more than a dozen people? >> i would say that, yes. look >> i guess we will call that will power. and now, today, we finally know what special grand jury foreperson, emily kohrs, was dying to tell the world. they recommended indicting 39 people. is it more than a dozen? i would

again, d.a. willis says that four-month long, 150 witness estimate is the same whether the case is brought against all 19 defendants together or whether it's just kenneth chesebro and sydney powell. still going to be four months, still going to be 100 witnesses. judge mcafee thought a trial could easily take eight months. which, though, i have no law degree at all makes sense to me. jury selection for this case feels very tricky, and 150 witnesses feels like a whole lot of witnesses. so splitting the cases, severing from from one another in the parlance of the court and having one trial in october for just two defendants and another down the line for everyone else, that could be setting up the court for very healthy hearings not to mention staggering inefficiency. having all 19 defendants go to trial together on october 23rd, in particular he seemed worried about whether it was even logistically possible to get through all the pretrial motions for 19 defendants including, by the way, the former presiden

d.a. fani willis.ould be a concern, for everyone, especially when that commission has power on october 1st -- and we know that this trial is slated to begin -- with at least some defendants on october 23rd. so, the idea that anybody can bring a complaint and try to thwart d.a. willis from doing her job in the middle of a major prosecution should be troubling to everyone. >> yeah. and it is worth noting that many of the people who sit on this commission are former d.a. 's themselves. i am sure you know who they are. we do not. perhaps there is some hope that because they d.a. are's themselves, they will recognize the importance of prosecutorial to independents here. who can know? what is your expectation for the lawsuit? you're asking for an injunction while this case works its way through the courts. what is your expectation? >> absolutely. we filed this lawsuit and we filed the injunction a few weeks ago because we absolutely believe that harm can come to a number of d.a.'s before we've had an opportu

and, well, today d.a. willis responded to his demands for documents related to her case. d.a. willis did not mince words. she called it an unjustified and illegal intrusion. she said mr. jordan was flagrantly at odds with the constitution and also lacked a basic understanding of the law and its practice. instead of her investigation she suggested mr. jordan train his attention and that of the justice department on the threats her office has received. by way of proof ms. willis attached example of racist and anti-semitic and violent threats she has received including the fan-fiction-style submission of willis being shot at her home by someone disguised as a postal worker. it says in part the postal worker assailant throws the box to the ground to reveal a small plastic pistol and silencer. fani t. willis painfully crawls bleeding inside the house. this vile submission continues in gruesome detail, but you get the point. now, this is not the first time fani willis or citizens associated with this case have been threatened, and the d.a. is not the only black woman prosecuting dona

d.a. fani willis has at her fingertips, just astounding. how many of these folks do you think could feasibly be called as witnesses for the trial or are already cooperating? >> well, we do know that at least eight of the fake electors in georgia received immunity deals, those eight were not indicted in that group of 19. there are others, for example, like alex coffin, they were identified on the witness list for mark meadows' federal evidentiary hearing. i saw him testify against mark meadows. so you have to anticipate that there are cooperation deals or that there's just straight-up assistance being provided to the state of georgia by some of these 21 that were not indicted. >> paul, former president trump, unsurprisingly, reacting to this latest report, saying it totally undermines the credibility of the findings and saying it shows they wanted to indict anybody who happened to be breathing at the time. but i wonder if it shows the exact opposite, when you have 21 additional recommendations who were not charged. >> exactly right. so there

would they use it to go along with the scheme to remove d.a. willis? but there's also, as much as trump wanted to, and obviously there's noise about, it there's another factor. there is something different about the upper echelon of georgia republican officials. it's not that they are necessarily different in principle or character. what is different and that is that they understand that they represent an emerging purple state. they understand that donald trump is a political albatross around their necks who in a cold, calculating fans, hurts their chances of winning majorities among swing voters. they have seen this brute fact inaction over and over and over again. >> in the state of georgia, where there is currently a hand recount being done, joe biden is the apparent winner. again, joe biden, the apparent winner in georgia. >> nbc news now projects raphael warnock as the winner in the special georgia senate election tonight. >> nbc news now projecting that john ossoff, a democrat, will win the senate runoff in the state of georgia, and that leaves t

d.a. willis's actions or lack thereof were an action by the prosecuting attorney oversight commission. a special session of the general assembly to end run around this law is not feasible, and may ultimately prove to be unconstitutional. as long as i am governor, we are going to follow the law and the constitution, regardless of who it helps, or harms politically. >> governor kemp's comments highlight a growing civil war within the gop, something that threatens to weaken the party at a crucial time for u.s. politics. and an inadvertent side effect of fani willis is meticulous work and commitment to the rule of law throughout this case. my panel for you now joins me now, ana bauer -- i molly jong-fast, host of fast politics podcast, and a vanity fair -- legal analyst. and former federal prosecutor. it's great to have all three of you ladies with us. carol, why are the co-defendants in this rico case seeking to break it up? and how likely is it that we will see more defendants tried on october 23rd along with chesebro. it's still unclear, we know that he filed this motion yesterday. spec

it's also been found another way to potentially oust d.a. willis. she oppose the bill on february saying quote, i'm tired and i'm just going to call it how i see it. i quite frankly think the legislation is racist. i don't know what other thing to call it. for georgia district attorneys, willis not included, have sued to block the panels establishments supported by the public rights project. they argue that to the governor and the legislature cannot dictate prosecution rules because the georgia constitution places district attorneys in the state's judicial branch making the law violate the constitutional separation of powers. and that the mandates to examine low level offenses also distracts prosecutors for more serious crimes. jill hey big joins me now. she is the founder and president of the public rights project which is leading the charge to stop s t 92 from taking effect. jill, it is good to see you. can you tell us where the challenge stands right now? >> yes. so, the public rights project is representing bipartisan coalition industry to chine

d.a. willis says his actions must be viewed in the context of the conspiracy instead of just one over overt act writing, quote, the defendant conspired not for any purpose related to his duties as chief of staff, but to transform mr. trump from a losing political candidate into a winning one, no matter what the like outcome of the election had actually been. a finding that as part of that conspiracy, the defendant may have committed one or even several acts that fell within the color of his office would not demonstrate that he was being prosecuted for an act for or related to his office. d.a. willis also notice that mark meadows has been forced to admit under oath that he did play a role in coordinating the fake electors scheme and her previously testifying that he did not. in response to that, leading former defense department special counsel ryan goodman said, quote, mark meadows has the potential perjury problem. also in georgia today, we saw the release of the transcript of nearly five hours

in a letter this week, d.a. willissharper tort to house ujiri chaired, jim jordan, after he demanded she turned all over all documents related to her election interference case against donald trump in the 18 people indicted by a grand jury in georgia last month. willis wrote quote, no job description as a legislator is not include criminal law enforcement. , nor does include supervising a specific clinical trial. because you believe that doing so will promote your partisan political objective. she goes on the set your letter makes clear that you like a basic understanding of the law, it's practice and the ethical obligations of attorneys generally and prosecutors specifically. well, this comes after judge scott mcafee, who is presiding over the georgia case said that heat was quote, a very skeptical of fani willis's plan to put all 19 defendants on trial next month. it seems to be judged mcafee and congressman jim jordan and other critics have forgotten who d.a. willis is, and what exactly she has accomplished in her t

portions of were unsealed back in february but d.a. willis had requested most stay under wraps until the formal indictments were handed down. as that's going on, georgia governor brian kemp -- during a press conference yesterday the governor argued that calling for a special session to remove willis from her position is not feasible and, quote, may ultimately prove to be unconstitutional. >> up to this point i have not seen any evidence that d.a. willis' actions or lack thereof warrant action from the prosecuting attorney oversight commission. the bottom line is that in the state of georgia as long as i'm governor we're going to follow the law and the constitution regardless of who it helps or harms politically. in georgia we'll not be engaging in political theater that only inflames the motions of the moment. we will do what is right. we'll uphold our oaths as public servants, and it's my belief our state will be better for it. >> one of trump's codefendants in the georgia case might have confessed to the crimes he's accused of and did so du

in a new motion that was filed yesterday, d.a. willisthe judge to keep the jurors' identities secret. tell us if you agree with that step, and if so why is it so important for not just the safety of the jurors but to be able to conduct a fair trial at all? >> the jurors can't be accessed by supporters of either side. >> thank you for having me. so i do agree with this move. i think it's really important to have the jury feel safe in being part of this trial not only to protect just the integrity of the trial itself but really to protect the rule of law and the integrity of our legal system writ large. we've seen a rise in political violence and threats of violence against public officials across the country over the last several years from volunteers like jurors who were just doing their public service to elected prosecutors and not just fani willis but other prosecutors across the country, especially black women to even just local election officials who are trying to conduct free and fair elections. and so i think it's a smart move and

i think we have a clip. >> up to this point i have not seen any evidence that d.a. willisor lack thereof warrant action by the prosecuting attorney oversight commission, but that will ultimately be a decision that the commission will make. regardless, in my mind, a special session of the general assembly to end run around this law is not feasible and may ultimately prove to be unconstitutional. >> there's a rash of laws around the country trying to say you can pull a d.a. you disagree with, but what's significant about this moment? >> i think it's interesting because you have these two men sparring, and clearly governor kemp and donald trump, he's on the other side of trump on this, and they have been sparring since 2020 over this. and obviously he does not want to -- he wants to uphold the law. he does not want to make this a political moment, and he's going up against other republicans who are saying in the press, come on, do this. this is not a good moment for the former president. >> it's always fascinating repeatedly brian kemp does the thing that is normal and, there

i've always said fani willis, d.a. fani willis has been called for a time such as this. she's a very tough prosecutor. she knows the law, she follows it, and she applies facts she's been given to investigations to that law. if she has the facts to go forward, she's going to move forward, and no one is going to be able to intimidate her from doing so. i will say the flip side of this is her ability to weather this and all of these prosecutors ability to hold a former president accountable is actually a reason to encourage other young people whether they were women of color or not to get involved in this career given the stakes and the magnitude of the challenge. if victorious, it's deeply meaningful. >> actually, that's one of the things that's personally very satisfying for me. there was a time when i was the only african american woman d.a. in georgia, and now there are eight. so you can see how things can progress as many others step up and recognize their opportunity to serve. >> wow, we are so thrilled to have your wisdom and thoughts. and i will say generally positi

maybe the d.a. willisinsufficient evidence, because in a grand jury finds probable cause to indict, the prosecutor still has to assess the evidence and decide whether there is a reasonable likelihood of success on the merits. that means, a conviction should you decide to take the case to trial. maybe fani willis decided that she couldn't meet that burden. here's the outlier, katie. these people, who were named for the indictment, but we haven't seen them show up in an indictment yet, they could be indicted in the future. think about the jack smith's indictment that was handed down in washington, d.c.. there are six pretty important, unnamed, but pretty well identified coconspirators. i had in every expectation that we will see a second wave of indictments in washington, d.c.. thus far, those unindicted coconspirators. so it could be that fani willis is not yet done indicted people in georgia. >> the indictment extravaganza may not be over, according to unquestionable, glenn, i always like having you on my

d.a. fani willis in terms of her good faith estimate on how long it will take to try all 19 defendants. within the order that was given by the judge, he also asked the d.a. to come prepared today to explain how long would it take in terms of witnesses and exhibits to try other defendants should they be parsed out. there are currently six pending motions to sever that are brought by different defendants including the former president of the united states trump. but of those six defendants, there's only one that has been set for trial. kenneth chesebro currently has an october 23rd trial date. that's because he has filed a demand for speedy trial. and under the law in georgia, they are required to try him, they be the d.a.'s office or the state of georgia prior to november, but we also know that sidney powell has also demanded a speedy trial as well. there is some scuttlebutt that we're hearing that the d.a.'s office is anticipating that maybe chesebro and powell will be tried together on october 23rd, and the remaining defendants will go to trial at a later date. that will be left to be s

as d.a. willis has noted, multiple drawn-out trials will create an enormous strain on the courts and her office, and give defendants who wait an advantage, and let's be clear, trump doesn't want to speed this up or simply create strategic delays. he never wants to go to trial at all. he wants to become president again, and fully execute his autocratic dreams by maybe firing the federal prosecutors and pardoning himself or otherwise extinguishing the legal cases against him, even the state ones that he can't pardon his way out of, using intimidation and power of the presidency. donald trump is not a normal politician. he is a wanna be autocrat who is attacking american democracy at its core. he is not, however, the honey threat we face because his party, the maga faction, as well as the normies, even the ones running against him for president, are wholly consumed by his authoritarian outlook or too cowardly to do anything other than give in. while those who are not onboard are forced out and expelled

d.a. fani willis, she brought a rico charge. that's why all 19 of these folks are jammed into this one case. but if judges grant the motions to sever these cases, is the d.a. prepared to try not one big case but say three, four or 17 individual cases? >> i think if we were to ask d.a. willis if she had to do it all separately could she, i think she would say yes. you know, she's said all along that she's taken this very seriously and tried to be as thorough as possible, as deliberate as possible. that being said, that would not be her wish. that would not be her preference. i think she probably knows at this point, especially with those who asked for a speedy trial, that she won't be able to prosecute all 19 together. maybe she knew that all along. and i think they're prepared for perhaps going in groups. but if they decide to do them all individually, that would become very cumbersome just from a logistics standpoint, but i think she would be prepared to roll with whatever came her way. >> you know, barb, today, ken chesebro, th

d.a. willis in georgia faced similar cause. in fact, there are a number of prosecutors across the country, frequently in blue jurisdiction city is in red states, where they face pressure from usually estate officials to curtail the way they are doing investigations, and in some instances, the state ag's have stripped them of their authorities, even though they have been duly elected by citizens in those states. and with respect to the jack -- did everything the doj asked him to do. this is with respect to the search warrant. and i was appalled at what was said. frankly, as the record bears out, both in the indictment by mr. trump himself, there were multiple efforts by the department of justice to reach out through the attorneys that represented mr. trump an he ref in fact, the allegations are he in fact moved documents and tried to hide them, so the department of justice couldn't get them. and i also led to the issue where mr. trump's lawyers ended up having to which is highly unusual, but this scenario is highly unusual, and

d.a. willis seems in her papers to be asserting that it was, in fact, false. false doesn't necessarily mean perjury, believe it or not. there's more to it than that, but it certainly presents a problem. and really what it shows, ali, is the danger of, you know, mark meadows' strategy here of testifying in a pretrial setting. it's the same reason why we've talked about it will be problematic for the prosecution if there are multiple trials that end up going here because any time a witness testifies or defendant testifies, you know, people get to see a preview of what is going to be said at the next trial. or if it's at a hearing then what's going to be said at trial. so there's always inherent risk in taking the stand, and i think that's been sort of demonstrated here by mark meadows. >> paul, putting aside whether or not perjury can be proved in this instance, fani willis is using this is an argument not to have the case moved to federal court. what's the relevance one way or another? it is fascinating as mimi said. there's evidence here. he's actually talking

d.a. willis's investigation.you really saw the scope of that investigation, who they were looking at and really with these 39 with it -- these 39 recommended indictments, it showed that the special grand jury had a much broader scope than what the actual grand jury that was handing down the indictments did. of course, we now know that only 19 people were actually indicted. so the potential was actually far greater based on the scope of the initial investigation by the special grand jury, bill. >> dana: jonathan, it's dana. i had a question how this is such a national news story. we are breaking into programming and we will make our viewers get a chance to understand this. i'm curious about in georgia and in atlanta itself, is this a big story there or something that is sort of on the periphery? >> you know, quite honestly, when we began covering this, we weren't sure what to expect. would there be massive protests, would things be relatively quiet? it has been relatively quiet. in fact, during all these prelimina

by 2020, willis was running to take over the d.a. boss, incumbent d.a., paul howard. with two decades of the spirit, but she was facing questions about financial proprieties. willis seized on that, she campaigned on cleaning up the office, and boldly argued that her boss represented the corrupt ways of the past, which powered her victory. >> i think it is a choice, actually, between integrity and corruption, good and bad. i think it is a classic fight, and i think that citizens will have to make a choice. we have a district attorney, now, that works for his own self-interest, seems to care about things that benefit him, and not the community. >> i want to thank the voters of this county for believing in me. tonight is a good night, y'all, we made her story. >> willis, victory night, there, citing her distinction of the first black woman to hold that office. she began her term in 2021, and leaned right into that assertive approach she had as a prosecutor. she even went beyond some of the ways she had campaigned, faced with a brutal ca

. >> i've not seen any evidence that d.a. willis' actions or lack thereof warrant action by the prosecuting attorney oversight commission. a special session of the general assembly to end run around this law is not feasible and may ultimately prove to be unconstitutional. as long as i'm governor we're going to follow the law and the constitution regardless of who it helps or harms politically. >> in this day and age it is kind of newsworthy when republicans don't blindly do donald trump's bidding believe it or not in 2023. he's always benefitted from a tremendous amount of political cover from members of his own party, but it does not look like it's going to be universally the case this time in georgia. joining me now is the former senator who testified in fulton county. so great to see you today. thank you so much for being with me. i want to start, first of all, with kemp's rejection of the special session. what do you make of that, and what should we all take away from it? >> i think, a, he knows he shouldn't do that because what

d.a. willis seems, in her papers, to be asserting that it was, in fact, false. false does not necessarily mean perjury, believe it or not. there is more to it than that. but it certainly presents a problem. really, what it shows, is the danger of, you know, mark meadows's strategy here of testifying in a pretrial setting. it is the same reason why we have talked about how it would be problematic for the prosecution if there were multiple trials that end up going here because anytime a witness testifies or a defendants testifies, people get to see a preview of what is going to be said at the next trial, or if it is in a hearing, what is going to be said at the trial. so there is always inherent risk in taking the stand and i think that that has been demonstrated here by mark meadows. >> putting aside whether or not perjury can be proved in this instance, fani willis is using this as an argument not to have meadows's case moved to federal court. what is the relevance one way or another. most of us are not used to seeing these pre trials. it is fascinating, and the

i would bet that there were statements she made that d.a. willisto put him on the stand to say. it's also possible that d.a. willis could be in a kind of way bluffing. i mean, prosecutors can notice a variety of witnesses. doesn't mean she has to call them. >> that's interesting. >> she could be signaling to the other defendants how far she's willing to go, meaning she will call people whether they're cooperating, whether they're hostile, she's willing to go full bore, and that may lead to other people deciding she's in aggressive posture and want to cooperate. >> if you're sidney powell or sidney powell's attorneys, when you look at this, what is your first reaction? >> it's not good. i think it's one of concern, right? because any time you have a prosecutor who's not only willing to sign up cooperators but is willing to compel potentially what we call a hostile witness to come to court, which means someone who doesn't want to be there but has to show up, otherwise they'll get in even more trouble -- that's a pretty aggressive posture for a prosec

but ultimately, he's given d.a. willisleverage. >> let's talk more about jack smith, and his different approach than fani willis. glenn, i know you word wrote about the difference. explain it to us. >> prosecutors are confronted, when they're done with these complicated cases, with a basic, threshold choice. and that is, do you go for a streamlined case that will move through the courts quickly. with one defendant, was one set of defense lawyers, with one set of evidence. or do you go for the entire shebang. in atlanta, you've got trump, and then two baseball rosters full of defense. fani willis is going for a bottom to top approach, and which, which is obviously as we can see from this complicated legal fights, it's going to play out over a fairly long period of time. i think that smith, designed his particular case to move as swiftly as possible, when he took over last november he, took over with his very brief statement saying only one thing, which is that he wants me to move quickly. his case is built for speed. but th

what d.a. willisf the judge is, look, if you are going to sever any of these other defendants, you have to make them waive speedy trial. because otherwise we'll have three trials o. same case, the same witnesses, the same evidence, going on at the same time in the same courthouse with three different judges, and then i'm going to have to assign assistant district attorneys to those cases who don't know me, to those three different trials, who aren't up on the facts. it will be a security, and logistic nightmare and quagmire in the courthouse. >> what does donald trump waiving his right to a speedy trial mean with all of this? >> he's hoping to get it severed with other defendants. he doesn't want to go to trial. it's no big deal to say i waive speedy trial, and mark meadows has done the same thing. the reality is, the d.a., this is a good strategy for her. the d.a. will say i can try all 19 defendants together. it's the prosecutor who has the burden to make sure the defendant gets a speedy trial. >> u

the first in a court filing wednesday d.a. willis judge presiding over the trial to shield the identities of prospective jurors in her sprawling and comprehensive racketeering case that indicted 19 people including donald trump in the plot to overturn the 2020 election. the

d.a. fani willis was over the deals. some people who were part of the presentation from the d.a.re's an entire list of the fake electors and they were not all indicted. there were only three georgia fake electors that were indicted by this grand jury. there's this issue of immunity, there's this issue of cooperation to clark's point. alex coffman did not testify, but curt hillbert did receive. i don't know if it was pursuant to a subpoena. but there's a level of cooperation that we're not totally privy to. the grand jury took evidence, heard evidence, and made a decision. if i'm fani willis, i'm not going to supplant that discretion and try to pursue more, frankly, i would let it be where it is. you have 19 co-defendants that are facing a number of felony charges. i think in and of that, you trust that the grand jury in its capacity took the evidence and returned a true bill on what they thought and who they thought was appropriate for charges. so i would -- i would not expect to see in any capacity a superseding indictment at this time. i think what you have is what you have. an

i think d.a. willishe speedy trial requests because only to ask for it. we know that, and generally speaking, most defendants in more complicated cases waive their rights to a speedy trial. the lawyers want more time. they want to be able to get all the evidence, go through. there will be a lot of documents, paperwork, witnesses, over 100, the d.a. has said. i think it was expected. i think what is notable is, for right now, the remaining 17 who did not ask for a speedy trial, right now, they remain altogether in, as the judge said, a mega case. perhaps in the future those might be separated out, as well. >> -- not more services from the judge. unless the additional codefendants file the severance as i do anticipate we may see. fani willis may have to recalibrate her strategy around who she wants to try and. when all 19 codefendants was very much ambitious. i fully anticipated that this would ultimately break down in a space where she is going to be trying these clusters in group together. there may not

for d.a. willise here part of the strategy of prosecuting this under georgia's rico case, tell a narrative all these defendants are woven together in a broader criminal conspiracy. that becomes much harder to do as each one peels off. >> yeah. the nonspeedy trial. judge cannon took her a long time to come back and come with this protective order that seems fairly obvious, 3,500 pages of classified documents. you know, it seems like a no brainer that she would say that that should be under a protective order. she also wrote this in her order. she said any classified documents the defense discusses with the defendant in any way shall be handled in accordance with this order including confining discussions, documents and materials to an accredited skiff. trump wanted to be able to read the documents at mar-a-lago. that's the scene of the crime. he gets to take the documents and he and his lawyers get to review them there, put them back in the bathroom. can you make sense of her being like an -- is the o

d.a. fani willis, what would you do? >> well, d.a. fani willis does not want the try this many, many times. she is going to have to take these two defendants who have asked for speedy trial in october because she has to do that, but she wants to minimize the number of trials. and if mark meadows wins this bid to go to federal court, that is another trial to include him and others in federal court, so she is looking to break this into the smallest number of pieces that she can. i believe she will go to court and suggest a trial court for the 17 remaining defendants a few months out, and then propose that they see how many defendants plead out between now and the months before the date approaches and try to get into as few trials as possible, because it is a going to be labor intensive, and see how few she can get to. >> and there a filing to try as if as possible, but trying a rico case, walk me through the disadvantages of the bite-sized cases as opposed to trying them in a more organized fashion. >> these cases are going to be a prett

i think that d.a. willis was very judicious and discerning about the way she looked at the report from the special purpose grand jury. i think she carved out with her staff what she was able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, which will be the standard going forward. and i think she made the decision that said, hey, let's go forward with the strongest cases possible and with respect to the rest, i will exercise by discretion to not pursue they at this time. >> all right, clint, thank you very much. i really appreciate it. >> thank you very much. >> and here's lindsey graham today responding to all of this. >> this is troubling for the country. we can't criminalize senators doing their job when they have a constitutional requirement to fulfill. >> let's continue this conversation now with house delegate stacey plays cet, the ranking member of the subcommittee on weaponization of the federal government. congresswoman, thank you for being here tonight. >> thank you so much, always great to be with you, abby. ,

d.a. willis asked the judge presiding over the trial to shield the identities of prospective jurors in her sprawling and comprehensive racketeering case that indicted 19 people including donald trump in the plot to overturn the 2020 election. the "atlanta journal-constitution" reports this, quote, willis asked judge mcafee to prohibit defendant, the news media, or, quote, any other person from capturing any sort of image from a photo to a drawing of jurors or from distributing any identifying information about them. prosecutors write in this filing, quote, the effects of the widespread national and international media coverage on individuals associated with this case is real and substantial. they point out that the identities of grand juiers -- jurors were revealeden -- online. members of the fulton county district attorney's office including the district attorney herself and members of her family have been dox'd. it includes the district attorney's name, her family members' names, ages with date

d.a. fani willis is accusing one of donald trump's top allies in congress of trying to obstruct her case. in a scathing letter yesterday the d.a. blasted house judiciary committee chairman jim jordan for his efforts to investigate her state probe. following trump's indictment in georgia last month, the ohio republican asked willis to turn over all documents related to the case, which jordan claims is politically motivated. in response the d.a. wrote in part this yesterday. "your attempt to invoke congressional authority, to intrude upon and interfere with an active criminal case in georgia is flagrantly at odds with the constitution. your letter makes clear that you lack a basic understanding of the law, its practice, and the ethical obligations of attorneys generally and prosecutors specifically. its obvious purpose is to obstruct a georgia criminal proceeding and to advance outrageous partisan misrepresentations. i tell people often deal with reality or reality will deal with you. it is time that you deal with some basic realities. a special purpose grand jury made up of every day citize

d.a. williso to trial next month waive, waive their speedy trial under the constitution saying, you know, this is going to be a logistical quagmire if you don't do it my way. >> liz, this is, again, just something where the entire paradigm that we're operating under, fani willis having her way, is completely incorrect. why do we have speedy trial protections? we have speedy tile protections for the protection of the defendant to insure that someone doesn't languish in jail with charges hanging over them from the government threatening them with the potential of being thrown in jail for a long period of time. but if you have a very complicated case, if you have a very complicate matter like what you have with this case with this, again, unprecedented use of the rico statute for political purposes by fani willis, you might think, as a defendant, you might want a little bit more time. and, in fact, that is as the defendant's right to invoke a speedy trial, and it is the defendant's right to say, no

d.a. fani willis in this case consulted with jon floyd, a preeminent rico expert.ext to her at that press conference when she announced the indictment. he literally wrote the book on rico. he knows this case law in and out and he's given this indictment the stamp of approval. that doesn't necessarily mean it's not subject to legal challenges, but police believe that this indictment has been well vetted by fani willis and her team. this office is experienced with rico, and there is zero chance that the rico count is going to be severed or dismissed in this case. >> ironic reminder for our audience, one other person that knows rico inside and out, rudy giuliani. melissa, let me ask you about mark meadows. he is fighting to get his case moved to federal court. what do you think the likelihood is? >> and what told i think he has an uphill battle. i think the judge, it's kind of a first impression issue, because you have a case where the pet the question as to the attorneys as well as the dea is if the court finds that one of his acts was within the course of his offici

has his congressmen met his match and d.a. willis? and is he in fact over region and overstepping his role as a legislator? >> he's clearly overstepping his role, and she's a formidable woman. it's great to see her prove it. and this is something a lot of people who have been targets of these maga shots have learned from. politics is a combat sport. she's a politician, she's an elected official. it's perfectly fine for her to russian back. i don't think any of this is of any great consequence. however, i do feel like there's something else that happened very recently that came under the radar. keep an eye on the small fry. read small fry georgia officials. david schaffer, and kathleen the for. why don't mention their names? they all petition to judge and they were just operating in the direction of the president of the united states when they made false statements and falsified papers, killing themselves electors when they were not. they were fake electors and they said the president told them to do it. if they testified to that effec

d.a. fani willis might call him to testify in the r.i.c.o. case? can we glean anything from today what kind of case she is building? >> sure. i think we can determine from her -- on the witnesses is that he has some testimony that she needs to get out there in his trial. so, we know he testified before a grand jury previously, pursuant to a subpoena. he testified, i believe, for about an hour, hour and a half. and so, whatever that testimony was is something that the d.a. once to get out in the course of the trial. -- she has to give him a subpoena. we will see whether or not he voluntarily complies with a visit subpoena, or she has to have him declared as a material witness, if he refuses to come. but we do know there is something, whether it was the meeting that he held in south carolina, or his actions in the lawsuit, challenging the election results. there's some testimony he has that's valuable to her in the case. >> speaking of what that testimony might be, this is a guy who, since 2020, has definitely taken a reputational hit. he has advance

d.a. fani willis. are ready to move on from donald trump, and those still believing his baseless claims that the 2020 election was stolen, and while that divide might exist among gop lawmakers, a majority of republican voters still think donald trump should be the party's nominee. joining me now, nbc news political correspondent steve kornacki, my good friend. let's get to these numbers. how do they think the path to beating biden in the election goes right to donald trump? >> it's interesting. our average of the polls out there on the republican side, you continue to see just a dominating trump lead. there's been a talk out there, certainly from trump's opponents who are telling republicans, hey, look, he's going to have an electability problem. republicans were dragged down by him in 2022. there's all the legal drama, lost in 2020, 2018 was a bad midterm for republicans, but what's interesting when you start looking behind these numbers is that trump's strength with republican voters really isn't so

d.a. willis said she could try all 19 defendants on october 23rd, a timeline that could play to her advantage. listen. >> it's a big advantage to the prosecutor to have multiple co-defendants on trial at the same time because invariably what happens is the defendants start pointing the finger at e other. if you are a defendant in that kind of a trial, you are having to defend what the prosecutor says about the client and you are also having to defend against what other defense lawyers are saying about your client. >> former president biden filed to severe his case noting the timeline respectfully requiring less than two months' preparation time to defend a 98-page indictment, charging 19 defendants with 41 various charges would violate president trump's federal and state constitutional rights to a fair trial and due process of law. the finger pointing, gillian, has already begun in this trial. three accused republican fake electors said in legal motions they acted at the direction of former presi

d.a. fani willis. this kind of personal targeted attack on an individual prosecutor, just the logic and depressing next step on assault on our justice. >> i don't know how low some of these state legislatures will go. i would like to try to find a little bit of silver linings. behind that big dark cloud that you just laid out for us. the one place i think i could trying to put the ball up tomorrow's over the last several years the courts have by and large held. they held in the election challenge litigation, even the supreme court. even the supreme court refused to give donald trump any play, any audience when he went about trying to overturn the elections results. this is some ugly stuff being done by the state legislature. but i still want to believe that these statutes will be challenged. they will move into the courts. and i still believe the courts will hold. although i now look back at my 30 years practicing courts and military civilian, both federal and local, both trial and -- i always felt lik

now, if you're counting, it is d.a. willis 1 and the other side zero. that is how this works. you have 19 cases and they're going to count them all up. some might be dismissed. some might be acquitted. we talk about legally presumed innocent. that applies to everyone except mr. hall, who's now legally guilty, pleading guilty, convicted. so we're going to be tracking all of this and whether this is the first domino to fall in what could become a very effective rico case in america or whether ultimately in the future this turns out to be an aberration, that they got the little guys, so to speak, but not the big guys and gals. sidney powell, one of the big gals, one of the big important trump lawyers, she goes on trial next month in this same courtroom. now, hall will serve five years' probation, pay $5,000 in a fine and 200 hours community service. he will be barred from going anywhere near an election, and that includes the polling booth. it's a big step. and we might be seeing other plea deals. and i say that not as an observation or an analysis but as a report from what we're

d.a. fani willis decline to indictment them? what made trump loyalists like michael flynn and boris epstein less prosecutable than mark meadows and rudy giuliani? we're going to get into the potential problems d.a. willis might have identified and what these almost co-defendants are saying for themselves. senator graham just spoke with reporters. there's also news about another lawsuit, this one trying to keep donald trump off the ballot in colorado. we're going to have more on that in a moment. >>> let us start once again with georgia. joining us is nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard who's in rapid city, south dakota, where donald trump is holding a rally tonight. and "atlanta journal constitution" reporter greg blue stein along with legal analyst lisa rubin. let us starts with the would-bes here. senator lindsey graham is clearly the headline, ken dilanian, that he was somebody they considered potentially bringing charges against. remind us what lindsey graham h

d.a. willis's team, who had actually hoped, and believed, they could try all 19 defendants indicted in theng next month. the hearing also marked the second time that the american public was able to witness a hearing in this case. or frankly, any case involving the disgraced, quadruple indicted ex presidents, unfold on tv. viewers across the country, in the political spectrum, we're able to tune in, draw their own conclusions, on the merits of the arguments presented by both prosecution and the defense, as it should be. and that kind of raw, unfiltered access, will become even more crucial, as the october trial date approaches. all right let's bring back my sunday night panel. so danny, i will start with you, what did you think of judge mcafee's ruling here in this case, to sever the trials about sydney powell, and kenneth chesebro? >> i think it was the right call. and i think, we may see more motions for severance before this is said and done. as the other defendants consider their options, and as the case moves forward. but, even that severed case, i don't think it's likely to go forward

d.a. fani willis puts another win on the board, and hits back hard against house republicans. there is really nobody better to talk about all of that then prosecutor term congressman dan goldman. he is coming up first. plus, donald trump seems to be freaking out a little because of 14th amendment lawsuits trying to get him thrown off of the ballot. he is even attacking a member of our in-house law firm by name. inter weisman is here for reaction to that. also today, what's gotten into congressman ken buck? i'll ask the conservative member of the freedom caucus why is going after marjorie taylor greene and speaking out against an impeachment inquiry against president biden. earlier, my congressman -- conversation with senator amy klobuchar. talking about a re-brand of the term pro-life. something tells me that she does too. according to mark meadows, he was just doing his job, setting up a job so that they could -- into finding him some votes. so that is just typical run-of-the-mill chief of staff stuff, nothing to see here, just doing my job. at least that's been his argument

d.a. fani willis puts another win on the board, and hits back hard against house republicans. there is really no one better to talk about all of that then prosecutor turn congressman dan goldman. he is coming up first. plus, donald trump seems to be freaking out a little because of 14th amendment lawsuits trying to get him thrown off the ballot. he is even attacking a member of our in-house law firm by name. camille country lawn into weissmann are here for reaction to that. also, today, what has gone into republican congressman ken buck? i will ask the conservative member of the freedom caucus why he is going after marjorie taylor greene and speaking out against an impeachment inquiry of president biden. and later. my conversation with senator amy klobuchar. a few thoughts about her republican colleagues talking about a re-brand of the term pro-life. and something tells me she does too. ♪ ♪ ♪ so according to mark meadows, mark meadows was just doing his job. setting up a call so his boss could pressure the georgia secretary of state into finding him some votes. so that is just