and now mark meadows.k meadows was, as you know, wolf, donald trump's shadow the entire time he was chief of staff. he will know every conversation, every lie, every illegal action that was taken by donald trump. and he's going to be able to testify to it. and he's not going to be able to back off of what he told me, which was he considered mark meadows the next james a. baker iii. well, if you think he's got that much integrity, trust, and honor, that's the wrong person to have sit in the witness chair pointing the finger of guilt at you if you're donald trump. and that's going to affect republican voters as we get ready to vote in iowa, in new hampshire, over the next three to four months. >> do you think these plea deals, these immunity deals, will lead to even more people from trump's inner circle seeking immunity or a plea deal, for that matter, with the prosecutors? >> of course it will, wolf. because it's like a game of musical chairs. there's only so many chairs, and there's always more people than

of course, mark meadows' word against donald trump's, mark meadows is someone when you cover him and he has a reputation of being someone who says one thing to someone, one thing to someone else and a was an issue in the time period because we heard from the january 6th congressional testimony people saying mark meadows you need to step in, you're the chief of staff here, and he basically said trump wasn't listening to anyone who was pushing back on the election stuff. >> you mentioned the truth social posting from the former president going after -- saying mark meadows he didn't think he would do this. inside the trump operation, what's the response to? >> i think they have suspected something was going on. questions have been going around washington. they start within the trump orbit and they know mark meadows is silent. his attorney doesn't speak to the other attorneys here. that's typically something going on is they were reading the tea leaves pre-indictment in washington to see what was going to happen. the question also is how this impacts georgia and what's happening there be

president in the days between the election and his reluctance release of the white house than mark meadows. >> meadows lawyer says, he, quote, told abc their story was largely an accurate that there were also huge developments in the former presidents other cases today, both criminal and civil. my colleague laura jarrett has all put details on those. >> for weeks, attorney jenna ellis furiously defended then president donald trump, as he falsely claimed the 2020 election was rigged. today, she sobbed as she told a judge she was wrong. >> if i need what i know now, i would have to climb to represent donald trump and these postcolonial adjusts. >> in a georgia courtroom, she pleaded guilty to a felony for helping fuel lies about thousands of dead people casting votes in 2020. >> i failed to do mount hood village. and >> smiling for her mugshot just two months ago, now the fourth codefendant to flip and fulton county's sprawling election interference case against the former president and more than a dozen others. mr. trump has pleaded not guilty, arguing he's been targeted by democratic prose

told abc news, his former chief of staff, we have talked about a lot over the last two years, mark meadows has been granted immunity from the special counsel jack smith, in exchange for his testimony before a federal grand jury. abc report, quote, the source said meadows informed smith's team that he repeatedly told trump in the weeks after the 2020 presidential election that the allegations of significant voting fraud coming to them were baseless. nbc news has not independently confirmed this report. here is what the former lead investigator for the january 6th committee had to say about all of this. >> if it's true, it is the most significant evidential if element in the entire investigation, and there is really no one who was closer to the former president in the days between the election and his reluctant release of the white house than mark meadows. >> meadows lawyer says, he, quote, told abc their story was largely an accurate that there were also huge developments in the former presidents other cases today, both criminal and civil. my colleague laura jarrett has all put details on t

>> it is perfect mark meadows. he talks out of both sides of his mouth so imagine after the election was over and donald trump had lost, mark probably still saw a path for himself, professionally and politically. i think he wrote the book to try and stay within trump's good graces and i think he was going to ride that wave as long as he could. but now i think he saw that he was in real trouble and he went to the path -- the only path he could, which is to get immunity. again, it is all looking out for mark meadows. i am happy he is doing it, i am happy if this is all true that he is doing it. i think that everybody can do the right thing. i was glad to see what jenna did this morning. so, everybody can do the right thing. sometimes their motives might not be for the best, but at the end of the day, mark meadows does what is best for him. i have never faltered from that, and i think this is the exact same situation >> we will see. that statement about, i don't think meadows is one of them but to really knows, it doe

abc news is reporting that mark meadows has spoken with the special counsel team multiple times this year including in front of a grand jury. the abc news report said that meadows was granted immunity to testify and that meadows said that he warned then president trump his election fraud claims after the 2020 election were baseless. i want to bring back jamie gangel. what do you think the trump team reaction will be to this news? >> yeah, they're not going to be happy. >> meadows was one of the people closest to trump. >> right. look, there is no nobody who knew more about what was going on that mark meadows. he was the chief of staff. he was arranging meetings and calls, and he was in the meetings. just to be clear, we should go back and remind our viewers that we actually did report back in june that mark meadows had gone in to testify to the grand jury. of but this abc reporting is taking it further because of two things. we know now that mark meadows spoke to prosecutors in addition to that time with a grand jury at least two other times. and the big news here is he's been granted

president, everybody is on the line, and just so -- this is mark meadows, the chief of staff. >> reporter: and meadows was standing backstage with trump and his family at the january 6th rally outside the white house. >> mark meadows, an actual fighter. >> reporter: but sources tell us meadows testified that in the weeks after the election, he repeatedly told trump the allegations of significant fraud were turning out to be baseless. there was simply no evidence. meadows also said he thought of resigning many times himself, those sources say, but he stayed on because he wanted to help ensure a peaceful transition to a biden administration. this comes on a day of drama and tears in a georgia courtroom, as another close trump ally pleads guilty in that state's election interference case. >> state versus jenna ellis. >> reporter: lawyer jenna ellis, who promoted trump's election lies, today, says she regrets it all. >> if i knew then what i know now, i would have declined to represent donald trump in these post-election challenges. i look back on this whole experience with deep remorse. >> r

however, mark meadows wrote a book.adows wrote a book where he says the opposite or basically, where he says things that are different than what abc news is reporting under oath. how much does that matter? >> it matters to the extent that when he's at trial he'll be cross examined extensively on his prior inconsistent statements and what he's going to say are lies. the problem that the defense is going to have here is that mark meadows is going to be corroborated by lots of other witnesses. he is going to be corroborated by his own text messages and other documents and the government is likely to incorporate that into the narrative that they put forward when mark meadows testifies. he's going to talk about it. >> when mark meadows testifies, so you think this mean he's on the stand? >> there's no question about it. he is going to be one of the star witnesses, but don't forget, there are other witnesses who have lots of credibility, like pat cipollone, the white house counsel who has never had inconsistent statements and

mark meadows was at the center at so much of this. he was talking to so many people. >> so, in the context of all of this, this report came out tonight, also this morning, something happened very quickly to where only one cnn reporter was in the courtroom because it came together so quickly in georgia, jenna ellis, she accepted a plea deal. she pleaded guilty today in the state of georgia in that election of interference case, i want remind our viewers who jenna ellis is, what she used to said previously and what she said in court today. >> an elite strike force team that's working on behalf of the president and the campaign to make sure that our constitution is protected. >> president trump's right that there was widespread fraud. >> we have this overwhelming evidence of fraud. this election was fraudulent and corrupt zbld all of these false and fraudulent. >> i endeavor to represent my client. to provide me with true and reliable information. if i knew then what i know now i would have declined to represent donald trump in these pos

abc news is reporting mark meadows, trump's white house chief of staff, was granted immunity by the special counsel in exchange for his testimony under oath before a grand jury. abc reports that according to sources familiar with the matter, meadows has spoken with smith's team at least three times this year. and reportedly told them that he had warned the former president about his election lies. abc reports, quote, the sources said meadows informed smith's team that he repeatedly told trump in the weeks after the 2020 presidential election that the allegations of significant voting fraud coming to them were baseless. a striking break from trump's prolific rhetoric regarding the election. according to the sources, meadows also told the federal investigators that trump was being dishonest with the public when he first claimed to have won the election only hours after polls closed on november 3rd, 2020, before final results were even in. obviously, we didn't win, a source quoted meadows as telling smith's team. in hindsight. nbc news has not confirmed the reporting but the testimony from mea

it was mark meadows.at what seems illusive and that's trump's state of mind. >> exactly. the very same claims that jenna ellis is admitting were false, that mark meadows is saying he told the president were false are the same claims that the president makes on a stage in georgia at a big rattle pit. everyone is telling him there's no basis to this. he continues to restate these false claims. again, it all points increase willing i toen an intent to deceive. not just free speech, which is claiming now in motions, but a specific intent to push information that he knows is false on the american people. in an attempt to spur them to action to disrupt the joint session. it's gold mine evidence of intent for jack smith. and that is how it will be used in the trial in march 4th. >> i just keep thinking of how many coies of the book they are going to have to print the book process features prom innocently in the mar-a-lago gooimt indictment. the discrepe sit says sources told abc news na jack smith's investigator

abc news reports that mark meadows was granted immunity by special counsel jack smith in his investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election. federal prosecutors met with meadows at least three times. and focused on his conversations with trump following the election defeat. >> mark met doughs was as you know donald trump's had dote entire time he was chief of staff. he will know every conversation, every lie, every illegal action that was taken by donald trump. and he will be able to testify to it. >> reporter: according to abc news, meadows told investigators that he did not believe the election was stolen and that trump was being, quote, dishonest in claiming victory shortly after the polls closed in 2020. and cnn has reached out to meadows' attorney for comment. trump responding on truth social "i don't think that mark meadows would lie about the rigged and stolen 2020 presidential election merely for getting immunity against prosecution, persecution, by deranged prosecutor jack smith." and in fulton county georgia for the third time in one week, a former attorney for trump ha

but i think it's important to say that it's mark meadows that flipping on trump.circle suddenly flipping on it. and that's exactly the calculation that should be being made right now. before this-ification, people around trump decided to do whatever they could to stay in power, to stay close to trump, to gain economic financial aid from him. but now that they're faced with potentially going to prison for all of their conduct they are looking at, hey, this might not be such a good deal. so litigation overall is really necessary. we need to disincentivize people like mark meadows, jenna ellis, sydney powell, donald trump from doing things that would jeopardize american democracy. >> and speaking of jeopardizing american democracy, secretary grizzle all have to ask you before you go, the new house speaker, mike johnson, maga my guess he was called last night on this program, one of the key architects in a plan to overturn the 2020 election result. what does it mean? not just symbolically. but some to deal with the practicality of protecting our elections, to have an

let's say even before mark meadows cooperation came to.hat, is he would have to try to establish or prove that donald trump knew and had been told that there is no base for election fraud, and that the election was not stolen. what kind of information could mark meadows provide to smith's team about those two central pillars of his case. >> what's important is there two sides of the immunity coin when you just showed one side of it. cassidy testified to the january six house committee that mark meadows told her that donald trump said certain things to mark meadows like yeah i know i lost a yes i know my supporters are attacking mike pence he deserves it but that's hearsay coming out of cassidy hutchinson's mouth it's directly admissible evidence. when it comes out of mark meadows mouth because he heard donald trump say that's admissible against donald trump. that's important evidence for jack smith to have. but the flip side of the coin is that prosecutors are dead -- why because it is essentially giving somebody a pass for their own crimi

mark meadows would be an entirely different story. meadows, as we can see here, the latest to turn on trump. he could have extraordinarily damaging testimony against the former president. >> there's a headline, they're all turning on trump. obviously, ken dilanian, we have the jenna ellis story out of georgia we'll get to in a bit. i'm curious, though, what you belief the impact of mark me does turning on donald trump would be. and also your reaction to meadows attorneys -- i don't know that i quite call it a nondenial denial. it may have been too clever by half. we have all seen people put statements out like that when they found one or two words weren't exactly right and then tried to dismiss the overall story. but what's your take on all of it? >> that's a great assessment, joe. as you can imagine we all at nbc news done some reporting behind the scenes on this. and the informed speculation about this denial is -- or the question is there some issue around the immunity question. was there some imprecision in the abc news report? the

>> well it has kind of been the million dollar question in washington d.c., where has mark meadows been? even when the doj indictment came out, there were fingerprints of meadows, but you didn't see the, you didn't see the specific mentions of him throughout. now, i have known mark meadows for many, many years. if there is one thing people who know him consistently say, it is that he says different things to different people. so i am cautious about this reporting, in the sense that i do think that he is cooperating, to some degree. but i think he is trying to pull off this balancing, act where he can give the doj just enough, but then try to keep this public image of somebody was aligned with trump, and aligned with the republican party. i will be curious to see how this plays, not in the coming days, because his team is pushing back and saying he didn't flip, he didn't turn on from. i don't know if that is in fact the. case >> i mean, they have not been specific, just to be clear, about what they are pushing back on in the first place. but i mean, alyssa brings up an important point. i

sources say former chief of staff mark meadows has now been granted immunity to testify before the grandin the federal election interference case. meadows says he told trump there was no evidence of significant fraud, that the allegations of fraud were baseless. what this now means for trump. and another lawyer today turning. the tearful statement she read in a georgia courtroom. jonathan karl with the new reporting tonight. >>> the pilot who authorities say tried to crash a passenger plane over the u.s. tonight, what that pilot now says he took before that flight. what court documents reveal. now charged with 83 counts of attempted murder. gio benitez reporting. >>> the urgent manhunt at this hour for an air force veteran suspected of murdering his wife, a mother of four, in massachusetts. and what authorities have now discovered. >>> 41 states tonight filing suit against facebook and instagram's parent company meta. accusing meta of creating addictive features dangerous to the mental health of children. >>> we're also tracking tonight the first major snow of the season across several s

we talked about mark meadows. there's one other thing we didn't get to which is in your book. her gift packages for cobb county officials. i talked mark out of sends them. did you view that as risky for the impact it would have, that it would look like a describe? and why is donald trump personally involved in picking out the gifts? >> my mind set at the time was -- and i intentionally tried to write the book in what i call realtime, how i was feeling about things about the time and then sort of my coming to my senses. at the time i saw mr. trump as a very genuine and hospitable man that wanted to make people feel welcomed and that he was grateful for their acts and their services. i can't climb into the psyches unfortunately of mark be the president at the time. but when mark came to me with that request i was personally concerned and i voicedd this to mark that it would look like we were bribing georgia officials. at the time they were counting the balls and it would look like the white house was trying to sway them one way or the other. wasn't an issue we needed -- didn't ne

his last chief of staff, mark meadows. abc news is now reporting that special counsel jack smith has granted mark meadows immunity for his under oath testimony. sources familiar with that matter tell abc news that mark meadows has spoken to jack smith's team three times this year, including to the federal grand jury. abc news reports, quote, meadows informed smith's team that he repeatedly told trump in the weeks after the 2020 presidential election that the allegations of significant voter fraud commit to them were baseless. meadows also told the federal investigators trump was being, quote, dishonest with the public when he first claimed to have won the election only hours after polls closed on november 3rd, 2020, before a final result for. and obviously he didn't, when a source quoted meadows as telling smith's team in hindsight. jack smith's team was keenly interested in election related conversations mark meadows had with donald trump, according to abc news. conversations that could show donald trump knew he lost the

of course would contradict many things meadows has said publicly including in his book published a full year after the 2020 election. cnn has reached out to mark mea meadows' attorney and has not heard back. trump posted on truth social "mark meadows never told me that allegations of significant fraud about the rigged election were baseless. he certainly didn't say that in his book." joining us now is donald trump's former attorney and currently represents bernie kerrik who has been subpoenaed to testify in the georgia investigation. and appreciate your time. there have been so many questions about where mark meadows is on all this. were you surprised by this reporting? >> no, i wasn't really surprised about it. mark meadows, we had not really had much of any communications with him or his team. but if you go all the way back to march/april time frame of this year, you know, there was litigation over whether he could claim executive privilege and be prevented from testifying. and he was ordered by the judge to testify before the grand jury. so this immunity grant makes sense because when somebody in his position is then compelled under the exe

i don't think that mark meadows

and mark meadows, no you can't do that? that's something you are doing a lot. >> it is, and i took the job with mark with the understanding that we would likely not always agree on everything. i think that's why mark and i had an effective working relationship. mark put a lot of trust in me. mark and i, ideologically were not very similar, and more moderately republican the mark is, -- but someone has to be able to say the hard no. someone has to be the person to rein someone in, or just give advice that you may not want to hear. it may not be received well, but it was important that i always provide that to mark, and i felt that i was there to help him advise and guide him in that job. was i official at a water at points? absolutely. but i think that's how a lot of the trump administration played out, and i think, and sometimes -- hair on fire moments, we were swimming to stay afloat. and a lot of times, we were drowning. whether it was pat cipollone, or myself, or a few other aides that were willing to say no, it the pres

they're against mark meadows.idney powell, or people who have pleaded guilty and will now have to testify truthfully in all the subsequent cases. neal katyal, andrew weissman, glenn thrush, thank you all for spending time with us and having this conversation. we're really grateful. >>> when we come back, as we've been discussing, the vote today for a new house speaker shows how far the republican party has fallen down, down, down toward earth 2, to a fum embrace of election denialism and further and further away from further normal republican standard bearers like mitt romney, whose unvarnished thoughts about the radical transformation of his party is the subject of a riveting new book. we will be joined by the author mckay coffins on a romney reckoning after a short break. >>> also, an urgent effort to free the hostages by hamas. there is an ongoing effort to release a larger group of people. we'll have a group talk on those results. "deadline: white house" returns after a quick break. don't go anywhere. eak. don

and we know that because abc news is reporting tonight that mark meadows has entered into an immunity deal with federal prosecutors. according to their sources, meadows has testified at least three times including once before a federal grand jury. a lawyer for meadows, however, is disputing abc's reporting. a lawyer said to nbc news tonight, i told abc their story was largely inaccurate. people will have to judge for themselves the decision to run it anyway. joining me now is joyce vance. he think he has an immunity deal but his lawyers pushing back against that. how do you sort of read the tea leaves in all of this? >> right, so i think part of the confusion, alex, may be over the fact there's a difference between someone who is indicted and decides to conclude a plea deal with the government. they plead guilty and they agree to cooperate in exchange for favorable treatment. that's the sort of cooperation deals that we're seeing handed out down in georgia. meadows, though, i think is in a different category. he has been offered immunity in exchange for his testimony and perhaps using

mark meadows is also an unknown. er pushed back very stridently saying that the evidence that meadows was testifying to was not as favorable as reported. i've seen defense lawyers actually do that to protect their client before they get to a big trial or maybe he is a hostile witness who was forced to testify by the grant of immunity and either way prosecutors know what the testimony will be and that's what's important. they need to know if he's friendly, if he's not friendly and precisely how that fits into their case. >> neal? >> yeah, so first of all, ari, i thought your monologue did such a good job of laying out not just the difference case against donald trump, but all of the different pleas and cooperators and where this ultimately is going to go, and i thought you made such an important point in saying, look, these are courtrooms now. this is not politics. trump lives in the land of politics and he tries to use his political tacks in courts and 62 times and lost and he's trying to do a similar thing here and a

true that mark meadows wasn't the only one who was telling donald trump that he did not have proof for those fraud claims, something that he was hearing from everyone inside the white house. erin in. >> evan, of course, meadows is one of 18 co-defendants in fulton county. jenna ellis became the fourth person to plead guilty and agree to cooperate and she did emotionally, could we see meadows make a similar deal now that you're seeing this happening again and again. >> it raises a lot of pressure on meadows and some of the other defendants. we know at this point meadows is still contesting that indictment. still challenging that indictment in the appeals court in the federal appeals there in the 11th circuit, it's possible between now and whenever that case gets to trial that mark meadows will have some kind of terms with the d.a. in georgia. >> all right, thank you very much, evan perez and thanks very much to all after you for being with us tonight. ac 360 starts right now. >>> it's 3:00 a.m. here in tel aviv the news right now and the day unfolding on three fronts. the momentum towar

mark meadows swore oath to defend and protect the united states of america, not to protect donald john trump. i hope mark has that hindsight, especially as we enter the next election, because donald trump poses a grave danger to our institution. >> dispute it's what you said, i know you don't see it last week and you said, i've testified about my experience, he should testify about his. if he testifies against donald trump, how damaging do you think it would be for the former president? how much does he know? >> if he testifies honestly, i think, if margaret testify honestly, i would assume he would because he has great legal counsel, and it appear s he has listened to them, although i'm taking bits and pieces of news reports, it's difficult to speculate on a bigger level, but i would think that mark was in the room way more than i was. mark knows way more than i do. whether the information i have was incriminating in any form, i don't know this. that's to be told, but, if the justice department follows the leads back to mark meadows, i would hope that mark would go in and honor his oa

but if the justice department follows the leads, all roads lead back to mark meadows. and i would hope that mark would go in and honor his oath because this is bigger than donald trump. this is bigger than the moment we're in. he needs to protect and defend the united states. >> all roads lead back to mark meadows. cassidy, you're going to stick around with us. we'll have you back in just a moment with alyssa farah griffin, who is very intertwined in your experience. we have more on the breaking news. we'll speak to cassidy and alyssa about that, as we're learning about mccarthy is doing, fighting for his job. congressman matt gaetz filing paperwork to set a vote for a new speaker in motion. which republican would lead the conference? that's next. >>> i'm back now with more on our breaking news tonight, as kevin mccarthy's job as house speaker is now in serious jeopardy, after republican congressman matt gaetz triggered a vote to oust him from power just a few moments ago. cassidy hutchinson is back here with me, along with former trump white house communications direct

let's start with mark meadows. hehathis reported immunity deal.nce very quickly between this-limited immunity that came through almost bng forced to have to testify and full immunity you wrote a great great substack's about cooperation versus immunity. >> right, this is such an important distinction, katie, i know you understand this as well as i do. there is distinction between someone who is a cooperating codefendant who pleads guilty, given sentencing leniency in exchange for truthful cooperation and someone in meadows possession who testifies pursuant to a grant of immunity. you're right to point out that that means he's essentially forced to testify. the immunity means that he no longer has a fifth amendment privilege against self incrimination that he can assert to keep himself out from being in front of a grand jury. what we don't know here is what kind of immunity meadows was given. the federal prosecutors can offer one of two different kinds. the first is youth immunity, that means the government can still prosecute you, at least theoreti

that he is done anything wrong. >> mark meadows is the tightrope walker, if there ever was one he wouldwould be it. abc news is reporting that meadows informs missed that her repeatedly told trump in the weeks after the election that the allegations of significant voter fraud were baseless. he's not the only administration official reportedly to have done that, but why legally is it being fall for meadows to have done, that being that he has an unindicted coconspirator in the government case? >> in a perfect world every prosecutor would want mark meadows as a witness. he accompanied the president everywhere. he was with him on january six. he was around one calls were made to georgia. no better witness to talk about on trump's state of mind and what you knew. the problem with meadows, even if this was his testimony, that he would tell different stories and different times to different people. he told entirely different version of the facts in his book. and so with meadows as your witness you have both the credibility and a reliability problem. will the jury believe him? and will he stic

mark meadows is knowing what to do. o the line, do it enough to perhaps get out of trouble and then pull back. >> the famous meadows to step. it looks like ellis is more in the cooperator category. for a chesebro and powell, remains to be seen. that is a useful spectrum. thank you. still ahead, another trump lawyer, another one, yeah, another trump lawyer pleads guilty. the original trump lawyer that trump witness testified against his old boss in court. you know that guy, he was in that courtroom with trump and michael cohen will be here at the table next to tell us about it. (aidyl) hi, i'm aidyl, and i lost 90 pounds on golo. i struggled with weight loss and weight gain my entire life. with all the yo-yo dieting i did in the past, i would lose 20, 30, 50 pounds just to gain them over and over again. in one year, i've lost five sizes, and i'm on my way to lose another three. with golo, i can do it. (announcer) change your life at golo.com. that's golo.com. >> two more hostages have been -- >> michael cohen of course wa

mark meadows is knowing what to do. aps get out of trouble and then pull back. >> the famous meadows to step. it looks like ellis is more in the cooperator category. for a chesebro and powell, remains to be seen. that is a useful spectrum. thank you. still ahead, another trump lawyer, another one, yeah, another trump lawyer pleads guilty. the original trump lawyer that trump witness testified against his old boss in court. you know that guy, he was in that courtroom with trump and michael cohen will be here at the table next to tell us about it. f course. put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid symptom relief and helped leave bathroom urgency behind. check. when uc tried to slow me down... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when uc caused damage rinvoq came through by visibly repairing my colon lining. check. rapid symptom relief... lasting steroid-free remission... ...and the chance to visibly repair the colon lining. check, che

they got a big fish today and that is mark meadows. the president's chief of staff, he knows where all their bodies are buried. he has a lot that he could offer. so i would guess he got a very good deal. so the dominoes are starting to fall, donald trump has to be concerned right now. >> i have to ask you, though just how trustworthy is mark meadows, especially given what he has reportedly told investigators in this case is at odds with what he has written in his own book. >> i know, and he could be attacked, without which is the truth here. i think that because he is still subject to perjury charges he's likely to tell the truth and the courts will rely on that. but he has a lot that he could offer and sue donald trump's is also quite full and he has to be concerned because he has a lot of legal troubles in a lot of political issues because of the campaign and so donald trump is must not be sleeping very well right now and mark meadows is probably the biggest thorn in the side right now and speaking of the other legal cases in the geo

that means that mark meadows knows everything.ed other people to do on his behalf and just as importantly everything that he was told about the lack of facts to back up his contention that the election was stolen, yet he continued to act as he did then and as he does now. so the tweet or the post that he put out regarding mark meadows was clearly an attempt to influence and intimidate mark meadow whose we now have every reason to believe he's a witness for the government against donald trump. his conduct is showing you, neil the walls are closing in. the republican party needs to look at this and say, no matter what you think of what kind of president donald trump was, this is not going to be a pretty campaign if he's the nominee of our party. we need to pull away from the precipice here and picks someone that makes joe biden the focus of the next election, not donald trump. >> neil: we are learning to your point that the former chief of staff mark meadows has entered into a partial immunity deal with the government. we don't know

david kelly, thank you. >>> when we come back, what more we are learning from cassie hutchinson as mark meadowsng pressure. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. shingles doesn't care but, shingrix protects. shingrix is now zero dollars for almost everyone. ask your doctor about shingrix today. at humana, we believe your healthcare should evolve with you, and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan for you. humana can help. with original medicare you're covered for hospita

the accumulation of potential flippers, including maybe mark meadows, we don't know if mark meadows has done that or if he's just cooperating. if you're jack smith, watching fani willis stack up these flippers, what does that do for your two cases? >> yeah, well, it's interesting because the more codefendants down in georgia who plead guilty in connection with district attorney willis's rico case, the more that only strengths jack smith's prosecution because, you know, the rico crimes down in georgia are basically a smaller subset of what donald trump and his criminal associates and his coconspirators attempted to do in d.c., overturn the results of a presidential election. so with each guilty plea, particularly guilty pleas with cooperation down in georgia, that is another opportunity for jack smith to hopefully import that good development. it would surprise me if some of the people who are pleading guilty down in georgia. sidney powell and kenneth chesebro and jenna ellis have not communicated through their council with jack smith's team because if they are not envisioning revolving

thanks to the january 6th committee's subpoena for former white house chief of staff mark meadows, textmonths before the january 6th attack on the capitol, clarence thomas's wife texted mark meadows, do not concede, it takes time for the army who is gathering for his back. it took exactly two months for the army to gather, attacked the capitol, a week later, clarence thomas's wife texted mark meadows, just forwarded to your gmail an email i sent jared the same, sydney powell, improve coordination now will help the capitol cavalry come and fraught exposed in america saved. sydney powell is, of course, now a criminal codefendant with donald trump in georgia. as judge carter said, the illegality of the plan was obvious. clarence thomas did not recuse himself from a supreme court decision involving mark meadows text messages, which means clarence thomas ruled in a case that involved the text messages of someone who was text messaging with clarence thomas's wife about matters that are now considered criminal by prosecutors. but because he is finally feeling the pressure, clarence thomas has

dasha, we also have this new news from abc news that's reporting former chief of staff mark meadows hasty by special counsel jack smith and that meadows informed the special counsel that he repeatedly told trump that the election fraud claims were baseless. trump just spoke about that. what did he say? >> yeah, that's right, ana. i asked him about this news as he was about to go into court this morning. again, nbc news has not confirmed these reports, but here's what he had to say. >> i've spoken to mark meadows many, many times over the years, and he strongly believed the election was rigged. mark meadows always felt it was rigged, the whole thing was rigged. it was rigged and it was stolen and because it was rigged and stolen our country's gone to hell. >> reporter: and again, meadows' lawyer telling nbc news that these reports are, quote, largely inaccurate, ana. >> dasha burns and kristy greenberg, thank you very much. >>> up next, a house in paralysis, republicans now have their fourth speaker candidate, the chaos leaving israel aid and efforts to stop a government shutdown in limb

mark meadows knows. and mark meadows is reporting that mark, about that. is it that meadows reportedly told investigators he did not believe the election was stolen, and that trump was being dishonest? that is meadows view, right? it is not reflecting that, but how big of a deal is that? >> it is quite a big deal. basically mark meadows is president trump's former chief of staff. >> there for everything. >> there for everything. and for the prosecutor, jack smith, or for fani willis, to show that a crime has been committed, for trump, you have to have a bad act, and you have to have bad criminal intent. meadows is important to both. trump's best offense, we've heard it over and over again is look. i legitimately thought i won the election. now those of us on earth as well also understand that that is not even possible. but nonetheless. that is going to be his argument. meadows, evidently, according to abc news, told the prosecutors, no. trump himself did not think he won the election. and that is what cassidy hutchinson had testified before the january six

eric herschmann walked into mark meadows's office in a fury, pounding his fist on the wall. his can't be happening, he said. this is insane. pat cipollone, looking traumatized, said to me, this is nuts. mark needs to come back. derek lines asked, quote, does the chief really need more of a reason to come back? here it is. martial law. i mean, for god's sake. we called rudy to come help us do damage control. rudy giuliani, you know it's bad when we call rudy for backup. the chief needs to come back. i continue to call mark. he continued ignoring my calls. so i called one of the secret service agents on his detailed. go past your phone to mark, now. i ordered. seriously? the agent asked. what if he's in bed sleeping? what do you expect me to do? shake him away? i responded, yes. this is a matter of national security. you need to put me on the phone with him. after a few minutes, i had marked on the line. mark, the president's reconvening the meeting in the wrote -- rudy is on his way as backup for pat cipollone. rudy, for pat cipollone. we are talking about the insurrection act

we'll be right back. >>> other breaking news abc news reporting that mark meadows was granted immunity by special counsel smith to, telling investigators that trump quote was dishonest when he claimed he won the election. abc says meadows has met with investigators multiple times. as jenna ellis began to cry when she pled guilty to the election subversion case in fulton county. now saying she has deep remorse, her words, over representing trump. michael cohen testified in his civil fraud trial. first time in five years that trump and cohen were in same room. a day full of breaking developments here. what else are we learning about meadows making a deal with the special counsel possibly? >> this deal would be extremely important to the prosecution with this trial that's expected to get started in march of next year. now we know that meadows of course was in the room, was with the former president during all those times when he was pushing his claims of voter fraud after the 2020 election. we also know that certainly we've reported that meadows did testify to the grand jury in jack smith

donald trump's final white house chief of staff, mark meadows, has reportedly been granted immunity in the federal election interference case against the former president. sources familiar with the matter are telling abc news that meadows has met with special counsel jack smith's team at least three times this year including once before a federal grand jury. in those conversations meadows reportedly shared in the weeks following a 2020 election, he told then-president trump multiple times that allegations of significant voter fraud were baseless. he also reportedly admitted to investigators trump was being, quote, dishonest when he falsely claimed that he won the election, which he did in a speech just hours after the polls closed. despite allegedly saying those things behind closed doors, meadows has repeatedly claimed in public that the election was stolen including in his 2021 memoir. but abc news is reporting that when speaking with investigators, the former chief of staff conceded that even he doesn't believe some of the statements in his very own book. meadows has reportedly been

he wasn't getting calls on his phone or texting on his own phone and he was going through mark meadowse aspect and we heard from the january 6th meeting that meadows was at the center of denialism. he could not be a more critical witness, if this is true, and if these reports are true and this immunity deal is true and i talked to a number of trump allies who are concerned. >> thanks for the reporting. john. >>> new reporting about what military advisers are telling israel this morning and how they want israel to learn from america's past battles and a huge social media lawsuit. states take on meta over addictive features that are affecting youth mental health. >>> so this morning, cnn has learned that u.s. military advisers are urging israel to essentially learn from america's past battles, advising a measured, strategic approach in its response to the hamas terror attack. cnn's natasha bertrand live at the pentagon with the very latest on this. what exactly are they advising, particularly when it comes to a possible ground invasion? >> well, john, they're advising israel to have a ve

former white house chief of staff mark meadows is reportedly cooperating with prosecutors investigatingturn the 2020 election. this comes as a third trump attorney has pleaded guilty in the georgia election interference case. cbs's robert costa joins us now with these late-breaking details. good evening, robert. what does it mean? >> reporter: good evening, norah. two people close to former president donald trump tell me they believe former white house chief of staff mark meadows is cooperating with special counsel jack smith in the january 6th case, providing detailed testimony and possibly moving toward an immunity arrangement with prosecutors. this all comes as trump faces continued legal woes in georgia. >> i look back on this whole experience with deep remorse. >> reporter: in a tearful turnaround, former trump campaign lawyer jenna ellis admitted to making false statements that the 2020 presidential election was fraudulent. >> if i knew then what i know now, i would have declined to represent donald trump in these post-election challenges. >> reporter: ellis became the third attor

because mark meadows's chief of staff to donald trump.appened. so he's in a position to talk about what he and trump talked about, what trump's mental state was like, and whether there were other individuals who are likely going to be witnesses, who cooperates the testimony. so this is a very big deal. it should be noted, mark meadows remains an actual defendant in the georgia criminal case that fani willis has brought. so there may be some complications here as he has immunity. but he has no such immunity that we know of, and no such plea deal with the georgia prosecution. >> no such plea deal yet. do you think -- would you be surprised if you saw that he got a deal in at the georgia case? >> i would not be surprised. he's a very valuable witness in the georgia case, and much of the same way that -- was. he is close to the people who were at the heart of these alleged criminal conspiracies. there's a lot he could offer. the fact that he has immunity in the prosecution but no similar immunity in the state level prosecution, there's a mism