joining me now is audioing pert paul ginsberg.ined ear, some of these noises might sound blurry or insignificant. how do the audio experts tell the difference. >> i did a simulation of the pinger output to give you an idea of what we're listening for. [ pinging ] >> nice and clear, crisp, sharp and evenly pulsed. >> but underwater with other echos and wild life sea life, man made noises, swishing of water flow and so on and so fort, this is what the ocean sounds like with the pinger sound embedded in it. and the job, of course, is to try to identify and bring out what we're looking for. soo you use techniques, the same i used to claire fbi recordings in waco and sandy hook 911 calls and so on. after a certain amount of processing with some good planning, this is what we evolve. then once we have an idea of what we're listening for and we feel that we've gotten it, we do some additional processing and we finally evolve something that is much more useful for taking measurements. [ pinging ] >> that would be the unmistakable sound wi

and since they know the frequency, our audio expert paul ginsberg says they can do this with it. with us giving us a valuable and fascinating lesson in audio. paul, we're talking about traveling, what did we say, 17 miles group said you had an experience just recently that demonstrates just how far sound can travel. >> okay. well, actually it was when i was a young man and i was riding across the triboro bridge in manhattan and i had a c.b. radio i converted to the hamm radio frequencies. it was only four watts. that's the power of a night light. and i was able to contact a fellow in a sailboat off the coast of australia. and we spoke for ten minutes. i put my hood up and pretended that i had broken down. i guess i should apologize to the cars that were behind me at the time. but the reason that we were able to make communications, contact, is because of the reflection of the different layers of the atmosphere. otherwise, signals could just have gone into space. but rather, they go around the earth and so on. and so it is under the water where there are reflections from different

paul ginsberg is with us here. i'm very excited to have him. a forensic audio expert in the business of analyzing black box recordings. so, paul, thank you. i want to start with you. it is so fascinating when i heard from you, then we've been speaking a little bit before. are you skeptical about these pulse signals because they weren't continuous like they should be? >> exactly. if there's something transmitting, you expect it to be continuous. as long as you don't go out of range of reception. now, i will tell you that 37.5 kilohertz is above our hearing range. it's almost like super hearing frequency rather than a radio frequency. in fact, i would -- i would guess that dogs or mammals, you know, may even be able to hear these sounds. like dolphins. >> you have a very simple explanation as to what -- and we have some visuals to show of that. you have very simple explanation as to how we figure this out, if it's actually pings from the black box. you say number one is frequency. >> yes. we're looking for 37.5 kilohertz. >> okay. >> on the screen

joining me now to talk about it is paul ginsberg and brian todd is on the phone for us and joe johnsn kuala lumpur. joe johns, the families are watching very closely. i would imagine that they are watching this as well. reaction? >> reporter: a lot of reaction, quite frankly. we here at cnn have been reaching out to the families, understanding the cultural se e sensibilities but there's not a lot for them to say, quite frankly. there are reports in the newspapers that some of the family members are actually getting e-mails now telling them when the next briefing is going to come. the next briefing comes and there's really not enough information to comment. they don't want to do interviews, from what i can tell at this stage. and they are not the only ones. there are other entities reaching out to them, banks and so forth. we know of a law firm in town here and, don, i think you and i exchanged ec exchanged e-mail about it that actually advertised to try to get people to come over and talk with them over the weekend and our information is not a single family member showed up. so peopl

paul ginsberg, forensic analyst, and black box expert. and geoffrey thomas, airline and chief of airlines.com. and we are expecting the results of the oil sample sometime soon. what is the status of that? >> yes, don, we are in fact -- the oil came ashore and delivered down to perth yesterday. we understand it is a 24-hour period for analysis. the analysis we understand is a 24-hour period. we hope today, by 1:02 -- 12 midnight that they will learn if it is hydraulic oil or something thrown by a passing ship. but there seems to be a high level of confidence that this was not the usual marine oil. so there seems to be a level of confidence that this might be the first piece of debris, if you like, we find from flight 370. >> but i want to get your thoughts on this, geoffrey. underwater recovery expert told us i think essentially they have found the wreckage site. and he has been on this show with us before. you have spoken with him. we all have. why are he and so many other officials so confident about this? >> well, david is probably one

. >> and, paul ginsberg, what about fatigue for audio tech anythings working this case? get too tired could they miss something important? >> absolutely. and it does happen. when you are trying to get something that you -- that you just can't perceive, you can't hear quite enough, if you're tired you just -- as mary said, you're going to zone out. you need to unfortunately you need to get up and just come back in half hour and pick it up or be relieved by another -- another shift. >> i got to question for you. do you remember when we were talking about sea light being able to listen or area pings, right? and -- or being able to hear sea life or whatever frequencies, higher frequency, younger ears. is it better to have someone -- i'm being quite honest here -- with younger ears to listen for that frequency? might they hear better because the older we get the higher frequencies go away, right? >> that's correct. and also any -- any hearing loss can additive and irreversible. it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse. if you were raised in a forest your hearing would

the department of transportation and now an attorney for victims of transportation accidents, paul ginsberg, forensic audio and black box recordings expert, tim tilmon a retired pilot. and jeffrey thomas, editor and chief of airline ratings.com. give, since we have you in perth. we expect the results of the oil sample sometime soon. what is the status on that? >> yes, don. we are. in fact, the oil came ashore and delivered down to perth yesterday. we understand it is about a 24-hour period for analysis. that analysis, we understand, started yesterday afternoon. we are hoping that by lunchtime today, possibly 12:00 today, 12:00 midnight where you folks are that we will get some sort of guidance as to whether this is oil from the plane or engine oil or hydraulic oil, or whether in fact it is something else that is been thrown overboard by a passing ship. there seems to be a high level of confidence this was not the usual marine oil. this was something different. there seems to be a little bit of a level of confidence that this might be, might be the first piece of debris, if you like, that we

he is audio expert paul ginsberg and he showed us some ping enhancements last week.o show us how sound enhancement techniques work. we're going to use examples from night 93 hijacked by al qaeda on september 11th. it's a plane that crashed in a philadelphia field. we want to be very sensitive about how we air these recordings. we're not going to play them in full. only short bites to show you what the original sound data sounded like and what it sounded like after enhancement. so let's start right now by playing the original nalg sound as recorded in the tower on september 11th and then we'll play the enhanced sound. first, the original sound. >> just underneath, 360. >> all aboard. >> now, that was the original sound. so let's play the enhanced sound here just to tell the difference between what it sounded like originally, difficult to hear and discern and after the enhancement, some of which paul worked on. >> just underneath by hitting 360. >> is the captain would like to remain seated. all aboard, and i will demand everyone to remain quiet. >> united 93 calling.

. >> thank you, paul, ginsberg for weighing in on both of those stories. >>> exciting day tomorrow inworld. two popes will be canonized and join the st. hood. no one will mistake donald sterling for a saint but the nba owner may have to atone for apparently racist comments if the nba can prove it. what does an apron have to do with car insurance? an apron is hard work. an apron is pride in what you do. an apron is not quitting until you've made something a little better. what does an apron have to do with car insurance? for us, everything. >>> in just showers two former catholic leaders are set to become saints. tonight, the catholic faithful are gathering in vatican city on the eve of this historic day. ♪ millions are expected in rome ready to witness john paul, ii and pope john xxiiird become saints. next hour talk about the catholic saints and the women who helped give these men their place in history. >>> hello, everyone. don lemon here. you're in the "cnn newsroom." we have a big story in the sports world. it goes much, much more difficult. it gets much more difficult than that.

paul ginsberg is a forensic audio expert.rently than most of us do. we want to talk about the pings. >> okay. >> the pings. we are still in ping land right now with it. >> exactly. >> all right. so some of the things we know. ping, the four ping signals detected, the first two were the longest. let me draw in here. this one here, two hours 20 minutes. this one here, ping number two was 13 minutes. the strongest, what does that indicate to you? >> well, that it's consistent signal which gives us some confidence in the fact that we're close. and the amplitude was varying a little bit during this 2 hours and 20 minutes but i don't think they lost signal. it was a continuous reception, which really tells us that this is an area that we should be searching and, in fact, this is the area that we are searching. >> right. what would you attribute the variance in the amplitude to? >> flow of water, other obstructions, any number of undersea currents, and so on. >> you're confident that these pings are from the black box. tell me why.