justice alito, congratulations. justice alito: thank you. [applause] >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more, including cox. so homework can just be homework. >> cox, along with these other pro- >> enter c-span's student documentary contest. for this competition, we are asking students to picture yourself as a newly elected member of congress and tell us what your top priority would be and why. create a five to six minute video supporting your issue. be creative, do not be afraid to take risks. there is still time to get started. the deadline is anyway 20th. for competition rules a tips on how to get started, visit our website. >> president biden held the annual turkington -- turkey pardoning, despite interruptions from the first dog, commander, the president pardoned two turkeys named chocolate and chip.

justice alito, congratulations. justice alito: thank you. [applause] >> "washington journal" continues. host: andrew jason cohen is with us this morning, philosophy professor at georgia state university also with the george mason university mercatus center , a pluralism and civil exchange fellow.

justice alito, congratulations. justice alito: thank you. [applause] >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. funded by these television companies and more, including wow. >> the world has changed what today is -- a fast libel internet connection is something i can live without. now more than ever it all starts with great internet. wow. >> while supports --wow supports c-span as a public service a lot of these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> this things giving we can on c-span, specially selected public affairs programming in primetime. tonight at 8 p.m. eastern a conversation with supreme court justice elena kagan as she talks to her life, career, diversity on the court. and 9 p.m. eastern, supreme court justice samuel alito shares his opinion of talk and betrayal after the draft opinion leaked. finally, a hearing on the challenges of clicking sales taxes on out-of-state purchases for the senate finance committee. native american survivors of abuse at boarding schools testify. the abuse happe

justice alito: i remember vividly. i had been nominated -- interviewed numerous times but the president had nominated harriet miers. i was sitting at the island in my kitchen early one morning drinking coffee and got a call on the fan -- phone. it was debbie to cancel saying -- deputy counsel bill kelly saying the president wants to withdraw, and the president has decided he wants to nominate me. it was an incredible surprise. then they told me the president would call at a particular time. the president called and said i would like to nominate you for the supreme court. i said, mr. president, thank you very much. i am deeply honored, and then there was a pause. and he said, do you accept? [laughter] president bush was not a lawyer. [laughter] >> so you obviously spoken to them before, and i know when -- one thing you share is you are both passionate baseball fans. did you spend more time talking about law or baseball? justice alito: it was a bit of both, and to me i am trying to think back on the exact questions that

samuel alito. joining us now, democratic senator sheldon whitehouse, a member of the senate judiciary committee. he co-wrote a letter sunday to chief justice roberts, calling for the court to investigate these possible ethical breaches. thank you very much for joining us tonight, senator. let's begin with the leaking supreme court of the what we learned about the 2014 lead which was also the lead of an aledo opinion, that seems to be quite a resemblance to what we saw this year in the lead of the alito opinion overturning roe v. wade. >> yeah, a few things converged here, lawrence. the first is organized plans and patterns to put people in touch with the justices, to lobby them off line, out of sight of other parties. you can only imagine the conversation that got a supreme court justice in a room with a wealthy individual in order to do that lobbying. who made that connection? of course, it appears many of whatever these events were at peoples clubs, at people's homes, that were not reported, and

samuel alito. evangelical minister rob shank told the new york times he obtained advanced notice of the samuel alito opinion in the hobby lobby case that overturned a provision of the affordable care act, requiring employers to provide contraception coverage and health care plans. the times reports that it is the dark money that senator whitehouse has been following, that created the supreme court leak. the times reports, quote, mr. shrink recruited wealthy donors like gayle wright and her husband, donald, encouraging them to invite some of the justices to meals, to their vacation homes, or private clubs. he advised allies to contribute money to the supreme court historical society, then mingled with justices at its functions. he ingratiated himself with court officials who could help give him access, records show. mr. schenck said his aim was not to change minds, but rather to stiffen the resolve of the courts conservatives and taking uncompromising stance that could eventually lead to a reversal

justice alito asked should states be required to recognize same-sex marriages, religious universities could lose their tax exempt status. the response from the solicitor general was chilling, he said, quote, it's certainly going to be an issue, i don't deny that, i don't deny that, justice alito, it's going to be an issue, closed quote. it is an issue today and under this legislation it will only get worse tomorrow unless we take affirmative steps to prevent that from happening. and we have the opportunity to do so here and we shouldn't miss it. unlike the hypothetical, but entirely nonexistent marriages being threatened or discriminated against, these religious organizations are currently right now in court fighting for their god-given and constitutionally protected rights to live and operate according to their beliefs and conscience. their faith targeted and harassed by those who would force them to abandon their convictions and embrace the convictions preferred by the government. sadly, the hostages at risk in this standoff are those who have benefitted from the charitable work of

justice alito in his.hat is according to the times to interview to the reverend and review the letter he wrote to chief justice john roberts. just like the dobbs ruling, the hobby lobby decision was a victory for conservatives. and gets this. both majority opinions were written by samuel alito. in a statement to nbc news, justice alito said that he knew the couple in question but any suggestion that he or his wife lead to the outcome of the ruling is, quote, completely false. joining me now for a reaction is my friend and an msnbc legal analyst glenn kirschner who is also the host of the podcast justice matters. glenn, still no update from chief justice john roberts on that internal investigation into the leak of the dobbs decision. but it doesn't as latest reporting just underscore that the supreme court should not be investigating itself? >> boy, it feels like there is a pattern emerging with these leaks. katie. because both the hobby lobby decision at the dobbs decision or basically a victory of religio

wade empowered alito.nt, called roe egregiously wrong and a weak argument. he cited centuries old common law, categorizing a woman who received an abortion after quickening as a murderess and then he took a victory lap. >> i had the honor this term of writing, i think, the only supreme court decision in the history of that institution that has been lambasted by a whole string of foreign leaders. who felt perfectly fine commenting on american law. one of these was former prime minister boris johnson. but he paid the price. >> joining me now is ellie mistal, justice correspondent for the nation. on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being, nah, he didn't do it, and 10 being oh, yeah, he did it, how likely is it that alito was the one who leaked the dobbs decision? >> does this microphone go up to 11? the supreme court has been an ethical disaster ever since john roberts took over in 2005. the supreme court is the only court in the land that operates without ethics rules. and these supreme court justices have been wil

she called him and said alito is going to write this, and we're going to win this case.ard a few years. he, the reverend schenk, has become a supporter of abortion rights, and he learned that chief justice john roberts last spring was going to launch this investigation into who leaked the decision overturning roe, and he said look, i have information that could be interesting to you. it's worth noting, though, that justice alito issued a really strong and rare statement. they usually don't speak up. this is what he said to "the new york times," and we obtained it, too. he said, i never detected any effort on the wrights to obtain any confidential information or influence anything i did and i would have strongly objected if they had done so. i also talked to wright yesterday. she said this story was patently not true. but paula, what's interesting about this story, it may not be so much about the leak and whether it happened or not, but that it shows the behind the scenes effort to try to influence the court. that feels really political, and that really bothers the justic

justice alito wrote the hobby lobby majority opinion, in an statement obtained by nbc news, alito sayst he or his wife leaked the outcome of the ruling is quote, completely false. in a statement from the court, alito said quote, i never detected any effort on the part of them to obtain confidential information or to influence anything that i did either in unofficial or private capacity. and i would have strongly objected if they had done so. this wright also told the new york times that she denies obtaining or passing along any such information. a representative from hobby lobby would not comment. the new york times says quote, evidence of mr. schenck's account of the breach has gaps. but in the months of examining this to the claims from schenck, they found the trail of contemporaneous emails, and conversations with strongly suggested that he knew the outcome, and the author of the hobby lobby decision before it was made public. now after the leak of the draft opinion which would eventually overturn roe v. wade, chief justice roberts made the rare decision to order an investigation of

justice samuel alito firmly denies he disclosed the distortion.o earlier this year when someone, we still don't know, who lead the court's draft decision that overturned roe v. wade. it was leaked to politico well before the dobbs decision was officially announced. we talked about justice thomas and his wife ginni, linked to numerous efforts in washington and beyond to overturn the 2020 election results. joining me now, michelle goodwin. chancellors professor of law at the university of california irving. she's host of on the issues podcast and the author of policing the womb, invisible women and the criminalization of motherhood. michelle, the new york times writes, quote, mr. shank said he learned about the hobby lobby opinion because he had worked for years to exploit the courts permeability. he gained access through faith, through favor, gatekeepers and through wealthy donors to his organization. abortion opponents who he called stealth missionaries. look, there is the lead. let's put that aside. let's talk about the broader implications of th

alito and ask about an important religious liberty case that was pending.e said she called him afterwards learned that alito was going to write the opinion and that it was going to go in their favor. flash forward a few years later, he became a supporter of abortion rights. when he realized that chief justice john roberts last term was going to launch an investigation into who leaked the abortion decision, he said he had information that he thought would be interesting to chief justice john roberts and sent him a letter. it's worth noting that justice samuel alito issued a really strong statement denying "the new york times" story. he said in part i never directed any effort on the part of the rights to obtain confidential information or to influence anything that i did in either an official or private capacity. and i would have strongly objected if they had done so. cnn reached out to wright and she said that the story "the new york times" patently false. but what's interesting about this story is it may not just be about this particular leak and whether i

and justice alito's wife.account saying, "the allegation that the wrights were cold told the outcome of the decision in the hobby lobby case or the authorship of the court by me or my wife is completely false." the blockbuster "times" reporting has sparked calls for investigations by lawmakers. senator dick durbin, chairman of the judiciary committee, says his committee is reviewing these serious allegations which "highlight once again the inexcusable supreme court loophole in federal judicial ethics rules." a closer look at the u.s. supreme court following this extraordinary new reporting is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. joining us kimberly atkins store, senior opinion writer for the "boston globe" and the emancipator. also joining us our good friend john heilemann, host and executive producer of showtime's "the circus." the executive editor of "the recount" as well. and former senator claire mccaskill's here. all msnbc contributors. i have to start with you, claire.

seeming to repeat justice alito's denials from press stories. there is a reason in ethics investigations in all three branches of government that questions are asked. the reason is that proper questions and answers help get to the truth and that false statements in that investigation can be punished. a court lawyer fishing quotes out of newspaper stories just isn't the same thing. it is not an inquiry. not to mention that that response completely ignored the overlay of the $30 million operation, and that operation's use of the supreme court's historical society to arrange private meetings with the justices. it ignored the contemporaneous evidence that schenck in fact knew the outcome of the case in advance and had acted at that time on that knowledge. the letter was a masterwork in cherry-picking, not a proper inquiry. the obvious second problem is that with no inquiry, there is obviously no independent inquiry. independence is the hallmark of proper inquiry, whether by a prosecutor or an inspector general or a congressional ethics committee, an

then supreme court justice samuel alito shares feelings of shock and betrayal after the leak of the draftthored to overturn roe v. wade. then a hearing on the challenges collecting sales taxes for out-of-state purchases for the senate finance committee. and saturdna

the majority opinion written by justice alito.s an evangelical and anti-abortion activist. told the times they were told about it by a donor. now alito says that is, quote, completely false and he released a long statement to the times. i understand you wouldn't have inside knowledge about this. but i do wonder what questions this raises for you, especially following the leak of the dobbs decision earlier this year also written by alito. >> yeah. i think that the timing probably couldn't be worse. there's already a great deal of concern about the legitimacy of the court, role of the court. so the timing is not very good. you need to be careful being a former justice in texas, careful about who you speak to with respect to any decision. even after the decision is ren rendered. sometimes you don't want to talk about the discussions that occur in conference, for example. so it's just -- it comes at a very bad time. the timing is interesting. i guess eight years after the fact, why is it -- why are we just now hearing about this? but

wade also week, a decision coincidentally which was written by justice alito.sil, what can we make of the fact that a supreme court justice is having dinner with donors that could influence major decisions? >> the two words that stared at me for the excerpt of that article was faith and donations. the reason that stands out to me is that faith is what essentially was driving the work that was being done. they were on this mission to change not only the court, but to really change national policy. they were on this height mission, using donations as a means of developing infrastructure to implement all of that. my takeaway from this is that yes, i assumed that this happens all the time, quite frankly. for alito to have been at the center of this now, and he was such a leading voice when the dobbs decision was leaked, it's part of the hypocrisy of the court. what we are seeing now, you can add that to justice thomas's behavior. not recusing himself of so many things that he should've. it leads to questions about how much we can take this seriously. >> ruth, what

after the blockbuster leak of alito's draft opinion of the roe v.d led to massive protests in front of the supreme court. a shocking breach of the high court's private and confidential deliberations. chief justice john roberts announced an investigation into the origins of the leak soon after the information was published in early may. so far any findings have not been released publicly. >> bill: story there. mike emanuel in washington. >> dana: stunning shake-up at disney, the company announced the return of bob iger as ceo less than a year into his retirement will replace shape chapek. he had a terrible year. >> including the fact making it more of a surprise that he signed a new three-year deal this past summer and although he meddled in disney's board of director decision didn't show a willingness to come back. what this is, dana, is the story of leadership. in this respect. chapek got into a tangle with ron desantis of florida. what he revealed and his weakness was in that it was disney became a place run by its employees and grievances and sen

alito and asked about an important religious liberty case that was pending. she called him afterwards to say she learned that alito was going to write the opinion and that it was going to go in their favor. flash forward a few years later, he became a supporter of abortion rights and when he realized that chief justice john roberts last term was going to launch an investigation into who leaked the abortion decision, he said he had information that he thought would be interesting to chief justice john roberts and sent him a letter. it's worth noting that justice samuel alito issued a really strong statement denying "the new york times" story. he said in part, i never directed any effort on the part of the wrights to obtain confidential information or influence anything i did in either a official or private capacity and i would have strongly objected if they had done so. cnn reached out to wright and she said the story "the new york times" patently false. but what's interesting about this story is it may not just be about this particular leak and whether it hap

verilli responded, yes, justice loot, that's not -- justice alito, that is not a problem. what he was acknowledging was that there is a real risk dealing with obergfell itself that unless we take steps to protect religious colleges, religious universities, other religious nonprofits, some of those might be threatened with the loss of their tax exempt status based solely on their religious beliefs about marriage, about what a marriage is and what it is not. many in the immediate wake of obergfell came right out and purported to offer comfort to religious americans and religious institutions in america. many came forward and said, this risk isn't going to materialize. as i recall, president obama said at the time i'm not going to force any church to perform a same-sex marriage. that's not how it happens. that isn't the risk. it never really was the risk. the risk is rather whether religious americans, whether acting individually or as a group, will be reretaliated against, denied some privilege or access under federal law to which they would otherwise have access based solel

not justice alito says there's nothing here.ame acquainted with the rights some years ago because of their strong support for the supreme yes wait for it to supreme court historical society, and since then we've had a casual and purely social relationship. but not everybody agrees with that. on november 20th, senator whitehouse and, congressman hank johnson wrote a letter asking the court to look into the justices conduct and to determine whether justice alito or any of the justices violated ethical rules as part of the events described. and yesterday, they received a letter in response from the courts legal counsel, a man named ethan torrent, which repeated justice alito's denial and pointedly ignored the questions put forward by these two lawmakers. it also omitted any details about which justices might have been winded nine as part of reverend schenck scheme. he said the term gift is defined to exclude social hospitality based on personal relationships well as modest items, such as food refreshments, offered as a matter of so

i can't imagine that justice alito was being a blabber mouth like that.have talked with him before and other justices, they know what they are doing. this is not their fires t first time around the block, you have hearsay on hearsay as lawyers call it broken telephone. at the end of the day politico reporting on this "new york times" article talking about hearsay on hearsay, they tried for months to coop kosh corroborate the leak they could not do it, they turned to circumstantial evidence. you are in media business, people prewrite reaction to things going different ways this particular case, was very easy to predict how it would go. this is all a big nothing burger. burg ginned up stuff. the leader changed his stripes and now trying to change the tune and muddy the waters, i feel briefs at the court, i have my ear finally tuned to things, i would hear about leaks it is to think this would happen, trying to get at this dobbs leak. and which you know we should know answer of who leaked that, i hope the chief just wiis -- justice with supreme court martial

and justice alito and his camp, they have denied this happened. unless, the timing is unfortunate for the court. they're under scrutiny. the reputation is not as -- i mean, it's -- i don't know if it's at an all-time low. but lower than it has been in the past. >> why do you suppose it is so low right now? >> it was the leak of the dobbs decision. and members of the congress, and the portion of the american public, are uncomfortable with the decision from the court. and it stems from the fact that the former president was able to make a substantial number of picks that gives a conservative i majority and the opportunity to roll back very important and very divisive decisions. i think for that reason, the reputation is at a low. i think stories about a leak that happened eight years ago, it's unfortunate. and the timing is not very good. that's all i'm saying. we need to be careful about the way we speak about the court and the way we attack the court. the court serves an important function in our society. it's supposed to be neutral. it's supposed

. >> a forceful denial from justice samuel alito that he had anything to do with an alleged leak of aigh-profile 2014 ruling to conservative donors gail and donald wright. quote, the allegation that the wrights were told the outcome of the decision in the hobby lobby case or the authorship of the opinion of the court by me or my wife is completely false. a reverend claims gail wright, a donor to faith in action, relayed the information after a dinner with the alitos in 2014. shenk says his views have shifted on abortion. the senator sheldon white house and congressman hank johnson expressing concern about activists allegedly using their access, quote, to secure confidential information about pending cases only deepens our concerns about the lack of adequate, ethical, and legal guardrails at the court. these allegations come after the blockbuster leak this past fringe of alito's draft opinion, overturning roe vs. wade. john roberts in may announced an investigation into the leak origins, but no signs the culprit has been found. >> this person comes forward again after the passage of ma

the first was justice alito's about the poor personal reading. seems to me, thatheetitioner claims that harvard is dirinating as asian americans because it uses subjectiveriteria that is affecting the personnel ratings. that is how i think i his question, correct? it is not thats ing race and admitting people, it is using a corrupted personnel rating, correct? se: well, i do not want to presume to speak for justice alito. i think it is fair to say that the criticism of the personal rating, relates it to the subjectivity that is involved, in all the ratings. particularly in the personal rating. well evaluations that use words like noddy non-leader, not carie place to all races. all races applicants receive those writings as we. what the applet -- expert was think of the fact that you have these numbers standing alone cannot tell you anything, coect? you have to look at the input that goes into whether there was discrimination or not, cre? seth: correct. >> the numbers alone tell you nothing. seth: that is right. the numbers can tell you, you n tot

justice alito gave an example earlier. you agree with respect to the essays, wheth iis guidance counselors or students, can express whatever views they choose to express about their own racial experiences and relevance of that for admissions officers? >> yes. what title vi band is race itself as a consideration. if the university gives credit to a black student whotes an essay about overcoming discrimination and equalredit race itself.student, that is not that is overcoming discriminationwhh is not a racial patient. -- classification. >> it is one thing to say that it shows resilience, because you have wtt about overcoming write about any number ofcould obstacles from overcoming physical disabs and on down the line. last argument about right --the pride, what if an applicant wrote an essay about how integral the racial identi to them as a source of pride and cultural atts of the racial heritage were important? with that be ok, if it were intimately tied up with aditions of a mexican family? if the answer is no, that nn be

alito author the opinion but caused the leak allegations completely false. the supreme court received heavy backlash when a draft opinion overturning roe v. wade was leaked earlier this year. people in western new york want to see more heavy equipment brought in to help them dig out days of heavy snowfall has left huge piles of snow there so high in some places that clearing the roads is more challenging than usual. massive amount of snow is now setting records. it is fox news medicine. scarpino is in buffalo, one of the hardest hit areas. unfortunately two people it did die from cardiac arrest from shoveling their driveway. there's been hundreds of rescues , power outages and a ton of canceled flights. the worst of the storm is likely over. here is a look at the third big wave of snow from last night. when that snow starts falling, it's so intense to the point where it looks like a complete white out at time. there's still travel bans in place and states of emergency in many western new york counties, but for the most part, people here kind of enjoy this we

justice alito said there's nothing untoward happening here.d i became acquainted with the wrights some years ago because of their strong support for the -- wait for it -- the supreme court historical society. and since then, we've had a casual and purely social relationship. but not everybody agrees with that. on november 20th, senator sheldon in the white house and congressman jensen wrote a letter asking the court to look into the court's conduct and determine whether justice alito or any other justices violented the events described. and yesterday, they received a letter in response to the court's legal counsel, a man named ethan tory which pointedly ignored the questions put to the lawmakers. and also which justices might have been wined and dined as part of reverend schenk's elaborate scheme. saying the term "gift is defined to ex conclude social hospitality, and often a matter of social hospitality. sound it's like something you'd get at mar-a-lago, too. we'll keep an eye on the story. stay tuned. ♪ kevin! kevin! kevin? oh nice. kevin, w

justice alito? justicsomayor, anything further? justice kagan? justice gorsuch?> i'm la little uncerta about the government's position on what itea for factor one. and the purpose of the use that could mean, as we've discussed, they're both being used for identifying an individual in a magazine. okay. or it could mean t ppose of the u.s. could have something to do with t aistic message being conveyed. i've heard bits of bot fvors from both sides in thiscase. and certainly the second circuit thought athe latter idea, that the'some artistic message that is relevant and step one, is part of the analysis. what is the vement's position? i n e possibly saying, no, it's only that is beinus for commercial purposes in the magazine. it t same yes use of the image, any difference between the images of something that we take account the factory. which has to do with the substantial idea of the portion used. n you help clarify that for me? >> yes, we think it is principally the purpose and character of the use. it's a broad inquiry, we're not trying to carve out certai justif

justice alito? justice kagan? justice jackson. >> thank you.an we go back to the necessary condition? i'm not quite understandingit. first, i thought there something in the legislative history that i had read abo congress considering a necessary condition antang it out. does that soundfamiliar to you? >> no. >> no? mae i made that up. >> it's not, theye th legislative history is very helpful, i i recommend the -- jean ginsburg brief. it gives you all the complete history and background. d they would read it a little beyond relationback, where it's necessary to cy. but it basically it's limited to these very core uses. >> what about commentary? that's what i'm worried about. parody i understand, you would say it's necessary and so that would fall into yourfare use te. but something like the campbell's soup can, where we've already established could perhaps use some other em to make the same kind of comment. would that not be necessary? >> i think that campbl' soup fits into places. justice kennedy's concur and campbell is really good on this poi

alito strongly denies the allegation.tly confirmed that reporting but how remarkable is this news? >> senate democrats in particular who have really for years now said that the supreme court is too easily manipumented by outside partisan forces, that this reporting and for instance the fact that justice clarence thomas won't recuse himself from cases having to do with january 6th, and this reporting about alito's alleged involvement in leaking the hobby lobby decision and there was also the reporting around the dobbs decision leak. that all of this is really advancing calls from senate democrats who say that if the supreme court won't police themselves then congress will step up when it's necessary and when it can. democrats have already called for passing legislation that would require the justices to abide by ethics rules since there is no sort of guardrail in place right now, jose. >> geoff bennett and jake sherman, thank you for being with us. >> next, we'll take you live to doha and bring you the details on what some

we're talking about supreme court justice sam alito. a complicated web, but involves wealthy donors and a landmark ruling concerning krcontracepti and religious rights. alito saying neither he and his wife let anything slip. ariane de vogue is following all of this for us. what can you tell us? >> jim, this case involves the reverend, rob shank. he used to be an opponent of abortion. and he's telling "the new york times" that he knows of another instance of the leak of the outcome of a supreme court opinion. he formally ran a nonprofit that was dedicated to religious liberty basically through donors. he would trying to get access to the justices. he says that back in 2014, one of his donors told him that she and her husband were going to have dinner with the laet, and that she was going to ask him about an important penting religious liberty case. he said that afterwards, she called him to say that she had learned the outcome of the case, that laealito was going to right and in fact it was going to go in their favor. so flash forward a

justice samuel alito said that university should effectively be barred from even knowing the race orpushback on the notion, observing the in order to actualize such an idea, students might be prevented from writing a missions essays about their families or their family differences, and that's the problem. so often with going down rabbit holes with conservative ideologues, if you take their ideas to the extremes, for which they are advocating, those ideas either become unenforceable or are nonsensical. is justice alito suggesting that candidates not put their names on applications because diego rodriguez would be a signal to admissions officers? is he suggesting and and to applicant interviews because an emissions officer could see a student skin color or understand their religious affiliation. theory is different than practice, and in theory, it might seem like a doable actionable goal to end affirmative action, but the reality, which even some conservative justices seem to be learning is much much harder. after the break, speak with lawyer, civil rights advocate and the executive di

justice alito? justice yor? >> just to finish that point, we do know when numbers decrease in schools like the university of california and michigan, t upper tier schools in the oklahoma school system, that blks have reported feeling isolated and having their voices >> yes, although the correlation offered in the briefs breaks down, if you look at the underlying information, just to take california for exame,t uc davis which has african-american representation several points lower than uc merc, ere are less reports of isolation. you can see that at unc, native -- there are some students under the policy who report feelings rial isolation. native americans who have a small percentage of representation on campus compared african-americans report feeling less racially isolated. the suggestion that that can be the standard is insufficient. >> justice kagan? >> this is off the track. but you made a reference earlier in your remarks ougender differences. there's a lot of statistical evidence thasuests colleges now whe

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and they said look, clarence thomas is not on the same page as alito.started raising these alarms. and that's how we got to today, right. so, you talk a little bit about the religious liberty. we do see some exceptions here for religious liberty. and that is what is important at the supreme court right now, because they care about that issue, they cared about it last term in two big cases. and we have another case that will be argued next week all about somebody who designs websites to celebrate marriages but does not want to design such a website for same sex couples. they think that they should be accepted. and that's before the supreme court. and this conservative supreme court is probably going to rule in favor of that person. >> i mean, it is the layering of all of this. everything needs to lead to the next thing. hillary, what's your reaction? you are listening to the interview with. jim did you have a reaction to a satisfaction? >> jim is an old friend of mine and i respect what he says. but the forum we are in right now is a political forum. the

>> yeah, this new york times piece was an attempt to try to blame alito for the dobbs leak.sense, why would he expose himself to threats and pressure before rowe was overturned. i came up with a snow study that touches on the dobbs decision. since rowe was overturned a match.com study found one in five couples say they are more hesitant to have sex. four in five claim they have changed their data behavior since the ruling. that's interesting. that kind of reflection i personally think is a good thing for people to have and to consider the consequences of your actions, particularly when it comes to a life hanging in the balance. >> laura: i have a question, is match.com right up there with gallop and all the other polling organizations? >> they commissioned the poll. they didn't do it themselves laura. >> laura: i got it. all right happy thanks -- raymond, happy thanksgiving eve because you're filling in for me i understand. that's going to be fun. >> we have an all star cast just waiting to fill the gap there. and i'll try to keep the seat warm laura. >> laura: awesome. all

justice alito said if you have exact correlations to the percentage in the population of a particular group, you said you're not done then. when would you have the end point? >> justice alito meaning we do not need to reach that point for us to feel that we have met our diversity goals. >> reporter: the three liberal justices spent much of their time defending the value of diversity of all kinds in education. >> i hear a process in which there's a forum that says tell us about yourselves, people can put all sorts of things on i am catholic, i am from los angeles, i am a latina, whatever but other people are not going to be able to because they won't be able to reveal that they are la teen be know, african american or whatever. >> judge jackson has recused herself from the harvard case. a ruling is expected by next summer. >>> donald trump is asking the supreme court to stop the irs from releasing his tax returns to a house committee. a federal appeals court cleared the way last week but now the former president has filed an emergency appeal. >>> brazil's far right leader yet to conced

a farmer antiabortion activist turned whistleblower has come forward to allege that justice samuel alito leaked the outcome of a landmark 2014 ruling weeks before the court's decision was made public. the whistleblower told "the new york times" will the conservative donor informed him about the yet to be decision -- published decision after they had dinner with the wife and the court was repairing to rule in favor of hobby lobby, a craft store chain, whose owners sought to deny birth control to workers citing religious freedom. shank said he share the information with the hobby lobby president and use the advanced knowledge to prepare a public relations campaign. in july, shank sent a letter to john roberts informing him of the alleged 2014 hobby leak but received no reply. through spokesperson, samuel alito denied any involvement in licking the outcome of the ruling -- leaking the outcome of the ruling. the new york state education department has banned schools from using native american logos or imagery for their mascots unless they receive approval from a native american community. st

>> justice alito, i think the short answer is i think the court can do it in exactly the same way that this court and the loourts did in the campbell case. in the campbell case the issue is parity but one of the issues in the case washeer the two live crew song was, in fact, the parity and in order to do the court needed to assess what theeang or message of the work was. juice souter in his opinion he sort of like did his own analysis seeker lkt the works and figure out whatou think as a judge. more likely aost of these cases the way they been litigated for almost 40 years, the litigants would putn addition to the works themselves is put forward evideeut sometimes it's evidence from the creator, both groups. sometimes it's expert evidence that sometimes albicans of evidence but that'sik the standard run-of-the-mill way that litigants and its copyright cases try to argue about and astonishment or message and we think that is totally appropriate in this circumstance. >> you maketound simple, but yb it's not so simple, at least in some cases to determine what i t meaning of the message of

iq, justice alito, this is thfirst. justice gorsh. >> i'm a little uncertain about the defendant's poti on what it means to prove factor 1. the purpose of use mean as we discussed they're both being used for identifying an individual in a magazine. okay. or it could mean the purpose of the use could have something to do thhe artistic message being conveyed. i'veea bits of both flavors from both sides in the case. and certainly the second circuit thought that the latter idea there was some artistic message that was relevant in step o. it's part of the analysis and what is the government's position. i cod e past this saying it's only been used for commercial purposes in magazines, it's the same use of the image and any differences between images is something we taaccount of many in factor three which ha to do with the amount and substantiality of the portion used . can you help clarify that for me?>> wthk it's a purpose is a broad inquiry and were not trying to carve t rtain justifications but what you're looking at is wh

supreme court justice samuel alito shares his feelings of shock and betrayal after the leak of the draft opinion he authored to overturn roe v. wade. then a hearing on the challenges collecting sales taxes for out-of-state purchases before the senate finance committee and on saturday, native american survivors of abuse at federal indian boarding schools testifying at a house hearing. the abuse happened at most of the 408 boarding schools run by the united states. watch this thanksgiving weekend in prime time on c-span or online at c-span.org. quick c-span's washington journal, every day we take your calls live on the air on the news of the day and we discussed policy issues that impact you. melissa reppo discusses consumer confidence and the u.s. economy. and then desmond lachman of the american enterprise institute talks about the u.s. economic outlook and potential policy shifts in the new congress. watch washington journal live at 7:00 p.m. eastern friday morning at c-span or she spend now, free mobile app. join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, textbooks and tw

then samuel alito shares his feelings of shock and betrayal after the leak of the draft opinion he authored to overturn roe v. wade. on friday, a hearing on challenges collecting sales taxes for out-of-state purchases before the senate finance committee. on saturday at 8:00 p.m., many american survivors of abuse at federal indian boarding schools testify at a house hearing. the abuse happened at most of the 408 orting schools run by the united states between 1819 through 1969. watch this weekend on prime time on c-span or online at c-span.org. actress fran drescher is president of the union present and those who work in the tv, radio, and movie industries. she talked about labor, sustainability, and health issues. this national press club event is an hour. >> that wasn't loud enough. there we go. hello, welcome to the national press club the place where the news happens i am john jensen at the 115th resident of the national press club. -- jen judson -- i did not mention earlier, but if you have questions, fill them out. there is cars on your table. or you can email us at headliners@press.or

justice alito? justice sotomoranything further? justice kagan? justic gsuch?'m >> a little uncertain about the government's position on what it means for factor one. anthe purpose of the use that could mean, as we've discussed, they're both being used for identifying an individual in a magazine. okay. or it could mean the purpose of the u.s. could have somein to do with the artist msage being conveyed. i've heard bits of both flavors fr both sides in this case. d certainly the second circuit thout at the latter idea, that there's some artistic message that is relentnd step one, it's part of the analis what ithe government's position? i can see possibly saying, no, it's only thats ing used for commercial purposes in the magazine. it's the same yes use of the image, any difference between the images of something that we take account the factory. which has to do with the substantial idea of the portion used. can you help clary at for me? >> yes, we think it is principally the purpose and character of the use. it's a broad inquiry, we're not trying to carve out ce

nermeen: one of the points that justice alito made which was extremely controversial, he said indianoften fighting each other before the europeans arrived. your response to that? >> it is really sad but when we take our issues to federal court as indigenous nations, we're not only dealing with justices who literally don't understand federal indian law and don't have one understanding of how the letter of the law works, but they have so many racist stereotypes in their mind about native people that those stereotypes come out during oral arguments. the idea that all indigenous nations were just at war with each other before europeans came is oiously not true obviously very racist. but we've seen it before. when this case was heard in the fifth circuit, a judge that was searching for hypothetical told of racist stereotypes that all native americans are drunks. it is just shocking but i think it shows how much ignorance and racism new system that we think is supposed to be about interpreting the law and interpreting precedent. so that is something that continued to be a big barrier for o