eastman, and mr. trump, communicating with each other. related to the obstruction of the congressional votes. here, he finds that, again, with respect to some of the documents, and goes further to say, as you note, lawrence, that there is additional obstruction related to the sort of vote tally in georgia. both it could be a federal crime, as well as a state crime. the import of that being -- my word, if it is bolsters at the state crime, that is something that even if there were republican presidents down the road, trying to -- indicted mr. trump convicted mr. trump, that is not going to work. because those are state charges. and a federal pardon does not apply to them. >> professor mcquade, the crime fraud exception is really so striking here. especially when you have the evidence that judge points out. of donald trump signing, just putting his signature on this piece of paper. where he is basically under oath, under a federal out, saying that these numbers, in here, are accurate. and donald trump is often portrayed as this kind of, 21s

this is all coming out now because of emails from attorney john eastman. he worked with trump and his allies to push the false claims of election fraud. the judge is saying eight new documents must be released from eastman to the jan 6th committee because they contain crimes. conspiracy to defraud the united states and the judge points to emails from eastman and trump's team where eastman points out that the numbers of alleged fraud that they presented to both a state and federal court were wrong yet trump knew those numbers were wrong and he signed off on the court filings anyway. judge david carter writing this saying the emails show that president trump knew the specific numbers of voter fraud were wrong but continued to taut those numbers both in court and to the public. the court finds that these emails are sufficiently related to and in furtherance of a conspiracy to defraud the united states. the judge is also saying in this opinion that the former president may have committed obstruction since all of these lawsuits were filed not to get legit legal

here is john eastman, - fifth. here is john eastman, fortunately _ fifth.ss those conversations with this committee? the not discuss those conversations with this committee?— not discuss those conversations with this committee?_ here - not discuss those conversations with this committee?_ here is l this committee? the fifth. here is jeff clark, this committee? the fifth. here is jeff clark. who _ this committee? the fifth. here is jeff clark, who conspired - this committee? the fifth. here is jeff clark, who conspired with - jeff clark, who conspired with donald trump to corrupt the department ofjustice. president trump wanted to appointjeff clark is acting attorney general and if you can see in this call log we obtain for the national archives, he did so. and here is mr clark testifying for our committee. when did ou testifying for our committee. when did you first — testifying for our committee. when did you first talk— testifying for our committee. when did you first talk directly _ testifying for our committee. when did you first talk directly with - di

before this e-mail out of california from the judge, from eastman, where basically eastman says he doesn't want trump signing a court document under oath listing off all of these things that he was saying about georgia, about dead people voting, and fraudulent voting. >> these things were lies. >> they were all lies, but what i think is really important here is that that document is admissible in a criminal prosecution against donald trump because it comes from his own attorney. by claiming attorney/client privilege, eastman is putting himself out as donald trump's agent. and the law is pretty clear here that if your attorney is making statements and they are admissions, they can be used against you in a court of law, and that really cooks donald trump's goose. >> and i want to turn again. we're going through the stuff. if you're watching at home, the phone alert, he got subpoenaed, i heard about that in the committee hearing. no, we have a lot more detail. i want to bring another piece for your analysis on the screen right now, we talk about the coup plot. that's the headline. we use the

in fact, on the covid-19, 2020, just four days before doctor eastman sent this memo, doctor eastman himselfhey electors had no legal weight, convert to the particular tours is," dead on arrival in congres" p trump campaign aides and outside lawyers share their concern about the scheme in e-mails reported on by the new york times' maggie haberman and luke broadwater p and they thin what they were doing was legal? >>> in an e-mail alert working in arizona described them as "make electors, said what we do a -- what we be doing sonny's make electors to go cash balanc in another e-mail there is a discussion about fear from some officials. this would be seen as "oprah treasonous." >> what might have happened had pence tried to go through with this idea that he could reject electoral votes and send them back to the states, such as arizona, has been to wisconsin, georgia? >>> it wears this it would have immediately plunged the country into what i would characterize would be tantamount to a revolution within a paralyzing constitutional crisis. there is just no way that the framers of the constitutio

so john eastman and donald trump are in trouble.se e-mails about potentially criminal conduct are headed to the january 6 committee just as the january 6 committee plans to issue a subpoena to trump, quote, soon. the decision also has significant consequences for the on going investigations by fulton county, georgia, district attorney willis and the justice department into trump's election schemes. in other words, buckle up. joining us now is neil catia, acting solicitor general and professor of law at georgetown university. thank you for joining us tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> so how meaningful -- we are now old enough to remember the number of times that donald trump has lied publicly. but how meaningful is it that he is apparently lying in federal court? >> this is a really big deal, alex. you said buckle up. i think that's right. this is not -- what happened today is not like the january 6 committee or bunch of democrats or something who saying, hey, i found something in an e-mail. this is a highly respected federal judg

that is the attorney, john eastman. a federal judge rejected his request to reconsider an order. required him to hand over multiple documents the committee. he is expected to appeal that decision. new leaked audio was obtained and documented. it was provided to political. that shows eastman speaking to an election integrity network summit. he appears to tell republican poll workers in new mexico how to step-by-step assemble evidence that could be used to challenge future elections. take a listen to this. >> document what you've seen. raise the challenge. look at the election board to accept your challenge. get it written down. this is the affidavit of a court challenge. >> we are told at audios from october 19th. that is very recent. we have not verify that audio. however, political reports that eastman, through his attorney, he'd aligned comment. charles, what do you make of this legal trial? he seems to be setting it for the next election fight. he is central to the investigations in the plot to overturn the last one.

eastman has been citing attorney client privilege but judge david carter rules that eastman must turnoverse of those emails that showed that president trump knew that the specific numbers of voter fraud were wrong but continue to tout those numbers not only corporate in public. those emails are may very well be a frame. quote the court finds that these emails are sufficiently related to and further hints of a conspiracy to defraud the united states. east district court judge in massachusetts, currently senior lecturer at harvard law school. she joins me now. it's great to have you. the procedural mechanisms are slightly confusing so i just wanna walk to the context and have you explain what the judge is saying. eastman is saying, i don't want to turn over my emails to the january six committee. he sued to block that. what does the judge have to find one way or the other to decide whether those emails go to the committee or not? >> well, he turned over all the documents to the judge initially, i think it was in january, and then he's sent as to some of these judge, you look at these documen

this is likely criminal activity between the former president and john eastman.andate the release of other emails because of this, because of possible evidence of a crime. these latest emails, eight in all, will be handed over to the committee but perhaps more crucially, john, this could add more evidence to the ongoing probes happening in georgia from the district attorney's office as well as the department of justice that has this ongoing probe of all things january 6th as well. this shows that trump knowingly lied to a court, which could prove grounds for some criminal charges if the law enforcement entities choose to go that route, which who knows if they will. >> this judge leaning into the idea of crime fraud exception, meaning there's no attorney/client privilege if you're discussing a crime. in theory that also applies to executive privilege. in theory it applies to what so much of donald trump and his legal team and advisers have tried to assert when they keep their communications private here. how much of a can of worms does this open up going forward?

that's john eastman's behavior here.g lie, to everything donald trump and his allies tried to do after the 2020 election. it was his idea to set the fake elector scheme, states put alternate electors to the congress that would allow mike pence to throw that out and therefore keep trump in office. we know eastman was sending e-mails, guys, we might have broken the law, and potentially wondering if he might need a pardon. he's someone who in the thick of things, heidi, this is terrific reporting, and obviously suggests this reiterates how the big lie is going to be with us, and talk to us a little bit about what you're seeing. speak more broadly about not just eastman's actions here, but how this is part of what the republican ethos is now, and we're seeing up and down the ballot, campaigns already threatening to challenge election results if they don't like them. >> and that is why you could see this potentially even in republican states, like i said, otera county, there was no reason for that election to be challenged an

citing that, a federal judge in california has ordered john eastman to hand over additional emails to. judge david carter determined that 33 emails contained possible evidence of criminal behavior, writing in part, the email showed that president trump knew that the specific numbers of voter fraud were wrong but continued to tout those numbers in court and to the public. four of those emails according to judge carter demonstrated an effort by president trump and his attorneys to press false claims in federal court for the purpose of delaying the january 6th vote. joining me now is nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali and "new york times" congressional reporter luke broadwalter. let's talk about one of the emails between john eastman who was representing trump legally and president trump, regarding the voter fraud claims in fulton county. describe this back and forth and what the judge saw in it. >> right, this is one of most revealing emails that the judge released yesterday. it included a sentence from john eastman in which he had been going through the data for the number

so what he's done is he is denying eastman's effort to hide these emails. these emails from the january 6th committee. eastman is saying they should be protected under attorney-client privilege. the judge says that is not so. simply because this falls under what is known as the krimd fraud exception. so what the judge says, you can see this filing from december of 2020. the former president signs it. it was signed first in georgia. the president's legal team were trying to argue that there were tens of thousands of fraudulent votes, and you can read from the the john eastman email where he said the former president had some doubts about this and then he signs the document. i'll read you what the email says. it says, although the president signed the verification to the state court on december 1st, he has since been made aware that some of the allegations in evidence offered by the experts has been inaccurate. for him to sign a new verification with that knowledge and incorporation by reference would not be accurate. the former president, erin, was doubtful.

eastman confirmed this in writing. recall they mail written on january 6th in which vice president pence's counsel asked dr. eastman, did you advise the president in your professional judgment the vice president does not have power to decide things unilaterally. he replied, he's been so advised. of course president trump's own white house counsel, pat cipollone also recognized the plan was unlawful. here is mr. cipollone's testimony. >> my view is the vice president didn't have the legal authority to do anything except what he did. >> there is no doubt that president trump's pressure campaign on vice president pence was significant. on the morning of january 6th, president trump called the vice president from the oval office and demanded that he overturn the results of the election. numerous witnesses told the select committee about the invective that he leveled at his own vice president. >> something to the effect this is the wording is wrong, being i made the wrong decision 4 or 5 years ago. >> and the word that she

i think eastman -- probably. >> were you going to say he's toast? >> i think he could be. the problem with emails of this nature, using them in a court of law, in a trial, you have the thing called the hearsay rule, rules of evidence. he could be talking about what trump knew to somebody else, communicating. we know trump doesn't use email. we know he's not a party to this email. eastman is talking about what he may have said to trump or what trump may have said to him. that's going to be hearsay in a criminal trial most likely. >> let me push you on that, david. if you were working this case and andrew weissmann who had your job has done this kind of thing and said you've got to work your way up. they haven't hit any -- what liz cheney has said, haven't hit any elite republican officials for a coup plot. if you hit eastman, it seems the judge is saying, looks like you weren't defending your client, looks like you were criming with your client. >> absolutely. my only point is i think this is really important information. the question is how can yu u

john eastman and donald trump are in trouble.s about potentially criminal conduct are headed to the january 6th committee, just as the january 6th committee plans to issue a subpoena to trump, quote, soon. the decision also had significant consequences for the ongoing investigation by fulton county, georgia, district attorney fani willis. and the justice department into trump's election schemes, and his involvement in january 6th. in other words, buckle up. joining us now is neil koch, former u.s. acting solicitor general during the obama administration, and current professor of law at georgetown university. no better tough person to talk to get all of this. thank you for joining me tonight. >> thank you for having me. >> and so how meaningful is this? we are now old enough to remember the number of times that donald trump has lied publicly. how meaningful is it that he is apparently lying in federal court? >> >> >> this is a really big deal, alex, you said buckle up, and i think that's exactly right. what happens tonight is not

john eastman's own e-mails, right? this is one of trump's closest advisors. the architect of the fraudulent electors' plan himself acknowledging these numbers aren't right. and trump shouldn't be using the numbers. and so for those people who would criticize the house select committee as being partisan or not evenly balanced or not giving, you know, time for opposing views or cross-examination or what have you, the various criticisms that there have been, here is other independent evidence in the form of john eastman's e-mails that corroborate all the things you were talking about. trump knew he lost the election and didn't matter. his strategy was say win and then just keep on telling the lies. >> does it mean the committee will get hands on the e-mails? >> yes, there is 33 documents they'll get. according to the judge, four of them get our piercing the crime fraud exception. specifically about using lawsuits not for actual reasons. but to try to delay and obstruct the certification of the election. i think that is the other key point in the judge's decision

eastman. dr. eastman replied, he's has been advised. of course president trump is on a white house counsel, pat cipollone also recognize that this plan was unlawful. here is his testimony. >> my view is that the vice president did not have the legal authority to do anything. >> there is no doubt that president trump pressure to campaign on vice president pence with significance. on the morning of january 6, president trump called the president from the oval office and demand it that he overturn the results of the election. numerous witnesses told us the select committee about the -- that president trump leveled at his on vice president. >> something along that the wording is wrong. >> the read that she relates the president called the vice president. do you remember what she said her father called him? >> the d word. >> if federal judge concluded, based on this and other evidence, president trump's pressure campaign against the vice president likely violated criminal statues. in the end, all of these people, department of justice offici

like how was george eastman a better example than some of what we see today? what's interesting question because to me what makes george eastman an interesting case is not his personal generosity. although it was very very significant and indeed the gifts of the beautiful neoclassical buildings at mit were anonymous. they were given under the name mr. smith when they were originally given so he's a generous man the real issue with him is that he really understood that social support for business was critical to businesses viability in his case. that was the community of rochester where he really focused a lot of his philanthropy and more broadly on areas that were complementary to business if i think of business today a lot of business leaders, i think take social support for the basic market system as as given that i i wrote a piece recently in atlantic, and i know they haven't been talking to many people 30 and under that. well, that's what i was about to say and if you talk to even business school to so these aren't undergraduate political science students

it's more bad news for john eastman, this lawyer. he was searched by the fbi in july of 2022, and he has taken the fifth amendment twice, once in front of the committee and once in front of the fulton county georgia prosecutor. >> it could matter in the georgia investigation, it matters in the doj investigation of january 6th. state of mind matters so much in all this. >> exactly. >> separately from this, there's reporting that in the mar-a-lago documents case, the trump team is now considering, not that it's totally up to them, but allowing department of justice investigators to come see if there are documents still at mar-a-lago. >> maybe try and try again. let's go through the history. back in january, the trump team turned over 15 boxes of documents to archives. then doj realized there's more. they served a subpoena in may and june. trump's team said here's what you have in response to the subpoena, that's all the classified documents. that turned out not to be true. in august doj went and did the search warrant. what options doe

what the judge has done here is he has said that eight new documents from john eastman must be revealed to the committee because those contain evidence of two crimes. c conspiracy to defraud the united states as well as obstruction. the judge is pointing out these e-mails between eastman and trumps team, they have pointed out the numbers of wrong voters, invalid voters, that trump and his team pushed to a state court and a federal court were wrong. the judge is pointing out trump knew those were wrong, yet he signed off on them putting them into court documents. the judge said the e-mails show that president trump knew that the specific numbers of voter fraud were wrong but continued to tout those numbers both in court and to the public. the court finds that these e-mails are sufficiently related to and in the furtherance of a conspiracy to defraud the united states. the judge said these e-mails show felony obstruction and said the president filed lawsuits not to obtain legal relief, but to disrupt or delay the proceedings through the courts. the court finds these documents are sufficie

doctor eastman replied, he's been so advised.p's own white house counsel had, pat cipollone, also recognize that this plan was on lawful. here's mr. cipollone's testimony. >> gentlewoman yields back. the chair recognizes the gentleman from california, mr. schiff, for an opening statement. >> thank you, mister chairman. in our past hearings, you've seen direct evidence that president trump said to a crowd of his supporters to the capitol on january six, knowing they were armed and angry. this was the last, most desperate, and dangerous prong that was planned to disrupt the joint session and prevent the orderly transition of power. on the morning of the sixth, the secret service was at the ellipse screening the members of the crowd as they entered the rally site. and they notice something significant of the crowd. tens of thousands of people were outside the rally site, but did not want to go through the magnetometer's, metal detectors that were used to screen for dangerous weapons. since our last hearings, the select committee has

but, remember, when eastman makes this statement it is december 31st. what happens three days later, two days later? he makes trump make the call to raffensperger. he makes that famous recorded call, infamous recorded call when he is asking raffensperger, demanding raffensperger, threatening raffensperger if he doesn't, to find exactly 11,780 votes won more than he needs. this is a smoking gun for the prosecutor in georgia. and the georgia investigation is very advanced. this is going to be a very important document and the charges that i am sure she is going to bring. >> alyssa, i remember you saying that you have been hearing from folks that the georgia case is something that they are concerned about. >> something i consistently hear from republicans who are still, you know, loosely aligned with trump world is that what they are most afraid of is the investigation. that could be for any number of reasons, but this is another factor that comes out that is related, and it shows that this is a president who we know lied with impunity for the entirety of

eastman confirmed this in writing.all this email in sixth and a wish vice president cap pence's counsel docked -- did you advise the president the vice president does not have the power to decide things unilaterally? dr. eastman responded he has been so advised. president trump's own white house counsel pat cipollone also recognized this plan was unlawful. here is his testimony. >> my view is the vice president did not have the legal authority to do anything that he did. >> is no doubt president trump's pressure campaign on vice president was significant. on the morning of january 6, president trump called the vice president and demanded he overturn the results of the election. numerous witnesses told the select committee about what president trump leveled at his own vice president. >> something to the effect of i made the wrong decision four or five years ago. >> the word, do you remember what she said? >> the p word. >> vice president pence did not waver even when his own life was endangered by president trump on jan

they are investigating the actions of john eastman. we expect that some of those investigations obviously are in the quiet period because of the midterm elections but come right after the elections, we expect a lot of activity to pick up both on this part of the investigation as well as jeffrey clark who was also involved in this effort to keep former president trump in power despite the fact that he lost the election. >> this is a major development. stand by. i want to bring you in and bring in cnn legal analyst former new york city prosecutor paul calen and jessica schneider. paul, how big of a deal do you think this is? >> oh, i think this is a very big deal, wolf, because it demonstrates that there is at least in the opinion of this federal judge a makeable federal criminal case against the former president. this obstruction charge by the way is a very serious charge. it's a conspiracy to obstruct governmental administration to obstruct administration of the united states electoral process. it could be punishable by ten years in pr

eastman confirmed this in writing. recall this email, written on january 6, in which the vice president's counsel asked dr. eastman, did you advise the president that, in your professional judgment, the vice president does not have power to decide things unilaterally? dr. eastman replied, "he has been so advised." of course, president trump's own white house counsel also recognized this plan was unlawful. here is his testimony. >> my view was that the vice president did not have the legal authority to do anything. rep. murphy: there is no doubt president trump's campaign on vice president pence was significant. on the morning of january 6, the president called the vice president from the oval office and demanded he overturn the results of the election. numerous witnesses told the select committee about what president trump leveled at his own vice president. >> something to the effect -- the wording is wrong. i made the wrong decision for -- four or five years ago. >> the president called the vice president, i apologize

then, accusing john eastman of hiding documents. we're back in one minute. 're bae ♪ feel the difference with downy. new astepro allergy. now available without a prescription. astepro is the first and only 24-hour steroid free spray. while other allergy sprays take hours astepro starts working in 30 minutes. so you can... astepro and go. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire ♪♪ you see that? that's the moment i realized i'm ready to open my own restaurant. ♪♪ start your financial plan today. ♪♪ >>> there will be a big january 6th committee hearing next week. it could be the final hearing. and that means that there are am strands that are being pulled by this investigation as it gets closer to wrapping up, including one of the key coup architects, john eastmanning a former trump lawyer who had his phone seize by the feds this summer. that was a sign a loft folks involved in t

still ahead, john eastman wages a new legal fight to block his e-mails from being turned over to theat story and a lot more on the upcoming mid terms next on "way too early." upcoming mid terms next on "way too early. it's time for theraflu hot liquid medicine. powerful relief so you can restore and recover. theraflu hot beats cold. need a backup plan? get plan b one-step. plan b helps prevent pregnancy before it starts by temporarily delaying ovulation—and you can resume your regular birth control right away. i've got this. ♪♪ (vo) with verizon, you can now get a private 5g network. so you can do more than connect your business, i've got this. you can make it even smarter. now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) robots can predict breakdowns and order their own replacement parts. (foreman) nice work. (vo) and retailers can get ahead of the fashion trend of the day with a new line tomorrow. with a verizon private 5g network, you can get more agility and security. giving you more control of your business. we call this e

lieutenant justin eastman is a constitutional scholar. but he told, colin quote, you can tell the vice president that i said he had no such authority at all. and quote. such authority at all anby early next, morning january the 5th, things had escalated. luttig got another urgent call from richard cohen saying, quote, can you help the vice president? we need you to say simply publicly. we need to get your voice out to the country. luttig was stumped. he was, at that point, retired, he didn't think he had much of a platform. he remembers thinking, quote, i don't even have a fax machine. then he remembered that he had opened account on the social media website called twitter a few months before. but he had never tweeted, had no idea how to. so, judge luttig typed out his statement, looked up how to make a tweet thread and, on january the 5th, he tweeted out a seven tweet statement. it read in part, quote, the only responsibility and power of the vice president under the constitution is to faithfully count the electoral college votes as they

and eastman and trump have been so worried about these emails coming out.o try and block them. today, just an hour ago, this highly respected federal judge, judge carter in california, said he's looked at the last batch of emails and they're not protected by attorney-client privilege. and his reason for that is the crime fraud exception that these emails show a deliberate lie by none other than donald trump himself personally that john eastman, the lawyer, was actually telling trump, hey, these vote counts that you want to certify in these proceedings, these legal proceedings, and say, you know, provide certain numbers, eastman is saying to trump, those are inaccurate. don't do it. what does trump do? in black and white, he does it anyway. he signs those very paper he was warned not to sign. and he does so under penalty of purge si, as it says in the thing that he signed. now, trump's defense is, well, i signed them based on the information given to me by my attorneys. but the judge pointed out, no, your attorneys said the reverse. they said, don't sign the

here is not eastman -- here is eastman testifying. >> discussed publicly, conversations with him? your position is you can discuss in the immediate direct conversations you had with the president of the united states? you will not discuss both conversations with this committee? >> nope. >> here is jeff clark who collaborated with tom to crop the department of justice. as you can see in this log we obtained from the national archives, he did so. here is mr. clark testifying before our committee. >> when did you first talk with president trump? >> the 5th. >> did you discuss fraud in the 2020 election? >> 5th. >> other witnesses have avoided testifying about their dealings with donald trump. steve bannon has been tried and convicted by a jury of his peers for contempt of congress. he is scheduled to be sentenced for this crime later this month. criminal proceedings regarding peter navarro continue. mark meadows, donald trump's former chief of staff has refused to testify based upon executive privilege. the committee's litigation continues. at some point, the department of justice ma

but, remember, when eastman makes this statement, it's december 31st. what happens three days later? two days later? he makes -- trump makes the call to raf fensperger where he's asking raffensperger, demanding raffensperger, threatening raffensperger to find more votes than he needs. this is a smoking gun for the prosecutor in georgia. and the georgia investigation is very advanced. this is going to be a very important document and exhibit in the charges that i'm sure she's going to bring. >> i remember you saying you have been hearing from folks in that world, in trump world, that the georgia case is something that they are concerned about. >> yeah. something i consistently hear from republicans still loosely aligned with trump world is what they're most afraid of is the f fulton county investigation. that shows this is a president who we know lied for impunity for the entirety of his name in office, mostly for most of his career. you can't lie in a court filing and misrepresent facts. it just confirms what many of us know, which is there is this desp

there, he said that former president trump and john eastman had undertaken this really extraordinary plan to try and overturn a valid election, i am paraphrasing of course. then, last week, again, we have another really important ruling from judge carter where it is clearly the case that typically if you are advising someone, acting as the legal counsel, then emails that you receive or send, they refer to the issue where you are providing them with legal advice they would be covered under either the attorney client privilege or the attorney were client privilege. except if you for instance chart to obtain advice in order to commit a crime. that's what judge carter said here is more likely than not. he found that both with respect to a verification that the former president had signed in court that said, yes, i think that there were more than 15,000 votes that should not have been cast, judge carter said there is no way you could think that. there is even more evidence here in the case that those were not correct numbers. he also found evidence that the former president was following

eastman acknowledged in writing thadonald trump knew what he was attempting was illegal. here is john eastman testifying before our committee. >> did president trump authorize you to discuss publicly january 4, 2021 discussion with him? you could discuss in the media direct conversations you had with the president, but you will not discuss those same discussions with this committee? >> here is mr. clark conspired with donald trump. president trump wanted to appoint jeff clark as acting. as you can see it -- as you can see in this call log, he did so. and here is mr. clark testifying before our committee. >> mr. car, when did you first talk directly with president trump? >> the fifth. >> did you discuss with president trump allegations of fraud? >> fifth. >> other witnesses have gone to a lengths to avoid testifying. has been tried and convicted for contempt of congress. he is scheduled to be sentenced for this crime letter this month. criminal proceedings regarding peter navarro continue. mark meadows, donald trump's former chief of staff, has refused to testify based upo

we have seen, you know, mike flynn, john eastman, jeffrey clark go in and plead the fifth.their goal. there's going to be a legal dance. there's going to be negotiating that's probably not negotiating. there may be some legal maneuvering. but it's all to buy time. they know the committee has an end date. and they're going to try to run out the clock. >> you know, on the subject of january 6 and the committee, paul, a federal judge is ordering the release of emails from john eastman, one of trump's former lawyers to the january 6th committee. and the judge said that these materials could be released because they fit into the so-called crime fraud exception. how high is the bar for that? >> well, it is a high bar, john. the crime fraud exception really pierces what is considered to be one of the most sacred things in the practice of law and that is the attorney/client privilege. you sit down with your lawyer, you community with your lawyer. that's always considered confco confi confidential. but there's one exception if the lawyer and client are conspireing to commit a crime

eastman insisted the e-mails are protected by attorney-client privilege.e of a possible crime. district court judge david carter says mr. trump signed legal documents on voter fraud he knew were false in a, quote, conspiracy to defraught the united states. we want to get to our nbc news capitol hill correspondent. "way too early" host is with us and former u.s. attorney joyce vance. you have the new reporting here. judge carter cites the crime fraud exception. how quickly will the committee get these new documents and what is the time line for the subpoena now? >> yeah, peter, you have to imagine the committee wants to get their hands on the new documents as quickly as possible, especially because multiple members have stressed to me the fact that they're currently really centered on doing the final report. that has to be done before the end of the year. we expect that final report to come in september. that as it pertains to the subpoena. my sources tell me they're currently meeting in a hybrid mix of virtual because they're trying to nail down the partic

today, judge carter ordered eastman to turn them over to the january six house committee.age opinion, the judge said the emails are, quote, sufficiently related to an in furtherance of a conspiracy to defraud the united states. and other words, a potential crime. this new evidence surfaced just as trump was testifying under oath for the defamation lawsuit brought by former magazine columnist e. jean carroll. she sued trump back in 2019 after he accused her of lying when she accused him of raping her in a new york department store back in the mid 90s. late today, trump's lawyer issued a statement to read this in part, my client was pleased to set the record straight today. she went on to try to dismiss the case as another political ploy. there's also major news tonight about russia's nearly eight month old war on ukraine. vladimir putin has just imposed martial law on the four regions of ukraine that he illegally seized. nbc's richard engel is in the region, and has more on what this all means. >> under the law, russia can confiscate ukraine homes and property, move civilia

eastman." so, he was going off of eastman in this false elector find. but he continues to write, "backed off that effort after no state legislature convened to certify so-called alternative electors and began criticizing plans by ted cruz and josh hawley, quote, i have great concerns about the way my friend ted is going about this effort. mr. lee ultimately voted to confirm mr. biden's victory." so both of them have actually -- have a point there. mike lee did entertain john eastman's scheme to steal the election with fake electors, but when no electors came forward he got nervous and separated himself from hawley and cruz and ended up voting to confirm the electors. so just sort of depends on -- >> what is right and wrong at the same time. >> which story folks want to accept. >> in the closing weeks of this campaign cycle, democratic candidates are leaning on bide on the get out the vote. but it's not that biden. it's the first lady. dr. jill biden. she is jetting coast to coast to rally voters ahead of the midterm vote. >> these fights feel enormous,

one, i think, was that e-mail you highlighted from john eastman. you know, viewers may remember him as the architect of the plan to overturn the election. this is a guy who is advising donald trump in every way possible to try to stay in office. and even was sending e-mails to greg jacob, the lawyer for mike pence as the capitol was under siege blaming mike pence for the capitol siege, not donald trump. the fact that john eastman would send an e-mail saying donald trump should not sign the false claims because we now know these are false is quite striking and does line up with the evidence we have seen from bill barr, from other top officials at the justice department and the white house counsel's office who told donald trump directly that the things he was saying about widespread election fraud were just flatly false and he should stop saying them. >> i guess the question is where are the consequences, there's a mountain of evidence, you've got donald trump on tape talking to the georgia secretary of state saying find me the 11,000 votes to flip t

emails, it was clear that the former president was made aware by eastman and others that the numbers that he was alleging were fraudulent votes in georgia, that he knew those numbers were wrong, that he went ahead and not just continued to talk about them any way, but he was also out there putting his name under oath in a legal filing as they were trying to pursue legal remedies in georgia after the election. so as we start to see how these puzzle pieces and the investigatory pieces fit together, that is just one of the things that struck me, the fact that this committee is still being nimble in realtime with what they know and evidence that is still coming in to bolster it, and we're seeing it reflected in this latest letter to the former president. >> and we want to go back to barb on that if we could, because i feel like that is kind of part of building this case towards intent. we have talked repeatedly about how they can build the case of intent. was it the former president's intent, what was his intent? did he actually understand that the election was free and fair, however tol