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so, what will judge chutkan do? all eyes will be on her this coming thursday when both sides convened to discuss the future of the case. >>> meanwhile, trump's busy september is chock-full of hearings in the e jean carroll election case, the election interference case, and the new york civil fraud case. joining me now for more, glenn kershner, federal prosecutor, emison bc legal analyst, and because of the amazing justice matters podcast. glenn, i'm going to make you johnny on the spot here. we did get some information from that filing in the new york attorney general civil fraud case. it is a reply brief. to just get people who are tuning in, up to speed, there was an appeal done by donald trump. the new york ag's office has been filing its arguments in front of the appellate court. donald trump has done the same, as we just noted. but it was stuff that was already argued in front of justice arthur ingrown. your thoughts before we move on about what is next in this process. >> donald trump's lawyers seem to be the
so, what will judge chutkan do? all eyes will be on her this coming thursday when both sides convened to discuss the future of the case. >>> meanwhile, trump's busy september is chock-full of hearings in the e jean carroll election case, the election interference case, and the new york civil fraud case. joining me now for more, glenn kershner, federal prosecutor, emison bc legal analyst, and because of the amazing justice matters podcast. glenn, i'm going to make you johnny on the spot...
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Aug 5, 2024
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let's start with your take on chutkan's opinion yesterday.ution? more importantly, what tone she's trying to set as the case does return to her courtroom. >> this is not really a motion based on the immunity issue. this is selective prosecution. it's basically the argument of, why are you picking on me, look at that guy over there. he's committing crimes, why are they prosecuting him? i'm not even aware that it's ever worked in any court anywhere, because all prosecution, particularly federal prosecution is selective. the federal government has limited resources, they have to pick and choose who they're going to prosecute. do i think they usually picture the prosecutor by watching tv and seeing who's jumping out at them or who is a hot topic or who might get them some good press? that's my opinion. but the bottom line is, almost all federal prosecution is selective. this motion even though donald trump might have had a decent argument in the world of selective prosecution, it wasn't likely to succeed with the immunity issue which is totally s
let's start with your take on chutkan's opinion yesterday.ution? more importantly, what tone she's trying to set as the case does return to her courtroom. >> this is not really a motion based on the immunity issue. this is selective prosecution. it's basically the argument of, why are you picking on me, look at that guy over there. he's committing crimes, why are they prosecuting him? i'm not even aware that it's ever worked in any court anywhere, because all prosecution, particularly...
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Aug 6, 2024
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judge chutkan repeatedly used the phrase, no evidence.an, quote, he provides no evidence for that claim. judge chutkan said that the motion was nothing but, quote, his unsupported assertions. the judge denied the trump lawyers request for a hearing on that motion. saying that to earn such a hearing, they would have to have, quote, put forth some evidence. a and the judge said that the trump lawyers did not give, quote, any explanation on how the hearing would produce material evidence. joining us session now is former fbi general counsel are and former chief of the criminal division, he is ams nbc legal analyst and co-author of the new york times best seller, the trump indictments. andrew, reading judge chutkan in her very high-speed ruling the day after she got the case back on these dismissal motions is to read sanity in judicial language. is something that we have been hunting for during this crazy period of supreme court appeals and crazy rulings by the federal judge in florida. >> yeah, so comparing her to judge cannon, you know, it
judge chutkan repeatedly used the phrase, no evidence.an, quote, he provides no evidence for that claim. judge chutkan said that the motion was nothing but, quote, his unsupported assertions. the judge denied the trump lawyers request for a hearing on that motion. saying that to earn such a hearing, they would have to have, quote, put forth some evidence. a and the judge said that the trump lawyers did not give, quote, any explanation on how the hearing would produce material evidence. joining...
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Aug 6, 2024
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judge chutkan said the trump motion was nothing but, quote, his unsupported assertions.for a hearing on that motion saying to earn such a hearing they would have to have, quote, put forth some evidence and the judge said that the trump lawyers did not give, quote, any explanation on how a hearing would produce material evidence. andrew weissmann, former fbi council and in the eastern district of new york is an msnbc legal analyst and co- author of the new york times best-selling book trump indictments. reading judge chutkan and her very high-speed ruling issued the day after she got the case back on these dismissal motions is to read sanity in judicial language, something we have been hungering for since this crazy. of supreme court appeals and by the judge in florida. >> comparing her to judge cannon is night and day in terms of experience leaving aside the merits. remember judge cannon had the same motion that donald trump made about selective prosecution and vindictive prosecution but she did not rule on that. she didn't want to hand that defeat to donald trump. inste
judge chutkan said the trump motion was nothing but, quote, his unsupported assertions.for a hearing on that motion saying to earn such a hearing they would have to have, quote, put forth some evidence and the judge said that the trump lawyers did not give, quote, any explanation on how a hearing would produce material evidence. andrew weissmann, former fbi council and in the eastern district of new york is an msnbc legal analyst and co- author of the new york times best-selling book trump...
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we are expecting, judge chutkan to say what she wants to do. could ask both sides to come in and tell them what they think should happen next. and then we could be seeing deadlines. we could be seeing hearings. we could even be seeing things like witness testimony from mike pence or others who have some sort sort of things to say about the presidential immunity decision that the supreme court has made, and about whether donald trump was working in some way in his official capacity as the president. so there's a lot of work to be done. this case isn't dead. it is going to be going forward, but there's much to be seen weeks ahead, pam. >> alright. katelyn polantz, i know you will keep us updated on that. >> and outfront now, ryan goodman, co-editor in chief of just security and former special counsel and the defense department ryan, thanks for coming on. >> so you just heard kaitlan kind of lay a lot to judge chutkan has a reputation for moving fast. i mean, that was something brought up right by at the supreme court and its opinion on immunity r
we are expecting, judge chutkan to say what she wants to do. could ask both sides to come in and tell them what they think should happen next. and then we could be seeing deadlines. we could be seeing hearings. we could even be seeing things like witness testimony from mike pence or others who have some sort sort of things to say about the presidential immunity decision that the supreme court has made, and about whether donald trump was working in some way in his official capacity as the...
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that's another thing judge chutkan has to deal with.dmissible. it's unusual for the supreme court to rule on the admissibility of evidence. we have rules of evidence, so it's very fascinating to see how judge chutkan is going to do this. whatever the outcome, trump will appeal, maybe right back at the supreme court anyway. >> we've got about 30 seconds left. i understand there was an update involving the gag order in trump's hush money case. what can you tell us? >> this is fascinating, the state of missouri sued the state of new york, claiming original jurisdiction. there are some cases involving states versus states that you can file directly in theory with the supreme court. the supreme court rejected moti. they wanted a stay of the gag order and sentencing, arguing that the gag order still in effect on trump was impeding on the rights of missourians who are wanting to vote and get all the information they want about the former president. so, in other words, the gag order prevents them from being able to vote properly. that's really
that's another thing judge chutkan has to deal with.dmissible. it's unusual for the supreme court to rule on the admissibility of evidence. we have rules of evidence, so it's very fascinating to see how judge chutkan is going to do this. whatever the outcome, trump will appeal, maybe right back at the supreme court anyway. >> we've got about 30 seconds left. i understand there was an update involving the gag order in trump's hush money case. what can you tell us? >> this is...
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Aug 27, 2024
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judge chutkan will sign up and say, you're right. everything that's left is a personal act. but if there's even a single one where he is wrong if the defense can convince judge chutkan, hey, this is a bridge too far. mike pence doesn't wear a special half. it says president of the senate. and she agrees, guess what happens? he goes back and tries to get another indictment. this is not really a great moment for jack smith. that is slimming it down because of the way the immunity ruling came out. it's not a win at all at this point. what to see how that hearing goes? norm was talking about kaitlan on that note about the vice former vice president's role. >> that's something you mentioned as well. so essentially, as far as i understand, jack smith is now talking about mike pence, not as vice president, but as the president of the senate. and that there therefore is not part of the that is not part of trump's official relationship with his vice president. that's more a campaign issue. is that right? >> a campaign issue or actually alex, it's that mike pence under the constitutio
judge chutkan will sign up and say, you're right. everything that's left is a personal act. but if there's even a single one where he is wrong if the defense can convince judge chutkan, hey, this is a bridge too far. mike pence doesn't wear a special half. it says president of the senate. and she agrees, guess what happens? he goes back and tries to get another indictment. this is not really a great moment for jack smith. that is slimming it down because of the way the immunity ruling came out....
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judge chutkan is known as no nonsense. and before the supreme court delays had made clear, she wanted to trial before the election now we wait to see her new plants for a case that we also know faces some significant changes. cnn's paula reid joins us with more. so what's next? >> well, judge, tanya chutkan has her work cut out for her. now she needs to apply this game changing decision by the supreme court to the case that was brought by the special counsel. the first question is, okay the acts that have been charge which ones are official because those they get tossed, he has immunity or the unofficial acts that may or may not remain or any of those supported by evidence that they could successfully argue what constitutes an official act, because the supreme court not only said he had immunity for official acts he also said that official acts cannot be used as evidenced, even to support crimes that are unrelated to your official duties. now, how does she do this while she could have a brief trial to suss out some of thes
judge chutkan is known as no nonsense. and before the supreme court delays had made clear, she wanted to trial before the election now we wait to see her new plants for a case that we also know faces some significant changes. cnn's paula reid joins us with more. so what's next? >> well, judge, tanya chutkan has her work cut out for her. now she needs to apply this game changing decision by the supreme court to the case that was brought by the special counsel. the first question is, okay...
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donald trump, the case is now back with tanya chutkan . and she has a lot of decisions to make and things to do, without very specific guidance from the supreme court about what to do about the existing case against donald trump. >> yeah, that's right. you know, what she knows is that there is this edict from the supreme court that certain conduct by a former president is immune from prosecution. unofficial acts are not, and it is her job now to decide which of the allegations in the indictment fall within which bucket. i would imagine if i were in tanya chutkan 's issues, what i would do is arrange for a status conference, to bring the parties in and talk through how to proceed. but i also think that, in fairly short order, we are going to have to have a hearing here in one way or another for her to decide which of those acts alleged in the indictment are immune, and which are not, so the case can proceed to trial. >> help me with this. because, as a prosecutor, your job would be to help the judge come to a conclusion based on the law. th
donald trump, the case is now back with tanya chutkan . and she has a lot of decisions to make and things to do, without very specific guidance from the supreme court about what to do about the existing case against donald trump. >> yeah, that's right. you know, what she knows is that there is this edict from the supreme court that certain conduct by a former president is immune from prosecution. unofficial acts are not, and it is her job now to decide which of the allegations in the...
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i think that is the closest model to what judge chutkan could do. i agree that if there is a hearing which donald trump will be fighting like crazy to not have it go forward, if that were to go forward we would likely get new evidence we are not aware of from the january 6th hearings. >> it feels like the biggest dispute or questions that judge chutkan has to resolve probably surround trumps conversations with state electors -- elected officials relating to his fake electors plot and the comments he made. just to talk about the first one, if that is something he has an evidentiary hearing on her would you expect to be brought in to justify on something like this? so many conversations he has in the oval office with administration officials are now off-limits. >> i think you would have two sides to that. you would have people at the stateside, and the people who made the recording to talk about what was said, to give some color to the context in which there is conversations occurred. you could also have people from within the white house. just becaus
i think that is the closest model to what judge chutkan could do. i agree that if there is a hearing which donald trump will be fighting like crazy to not have it go forward, if that were to go forward we would likely get new evidence we are not aware of from the january 6th hearings. >> it feels like the biggest dispute or questions that judge chutkan has to resolve probably surround trumps conversations with state electors -- elected officials relating to his fake electors plot and the...
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this is a thorny task for judge chutkan.ost doesn't matter what the conclusion is. if he doesn't like it he is going to appeal and almost certainly will end up back at the supreme court who basically threw out a boomerang that will come back to them if the case still exists which if donald trump is elected, the case goes pouf. >> how thin of an issue? can make appeal a specific request for specific evidence saying no, that is an official act, we need to appeal batting kick that up? if so, can we be stuck in a situation where literally every piece of evidence introduced has to have its own almost appeal trial? >> yes. there is a potential for many trials within many trials. if trump or any president decided or tweeted i am selling pardons for cash, then in theory, the part about the partner the exchange of the bribe really -- bribery, would be excluded and you be left with a bag of cash. the bottom line, nobody knows. nobody knows exactly how this will play out. it is a brand-new frontier. we never had this before. that was y
this is a thorny task for judge chutkan.ost doesn't matter what the conclusion is. if he doesn't like it he is going to appeal and almost certainly will end up back at the supreme court who basically threw out a boomerang that will come back to them if the case still exists which if donald trump is elected, the case goes pouf. >> how thin of an issue? can make appeal a specific request for specific evidence saying no, that is an official act, we need to appeal batting kick that up? if so,...
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there's a filing due on friday to judge tanya chutkan in the trial court in federal court, washington dc see they'll have to propose some timelines and then there's a hearing before judge chutkan scheduled for next thursday. donald trump will very likely be putting in another not guilty plea. we don't expect him to be there at that hearing but there is going to be a lot of discussion about how fast should things move forward and what does the court need to do to decide can the pence stuff in this case remain in our they're going to have to be hearings. will there have to be witnesses? will someone like pence or even mark meadows, the chief of staff to trump, who's cut out of this largely well, they have to take the stand before any trial. a long road ahead, and even things in the coming days, alex certainly is going to pull answer has been wading through this revised indictment by jack smith. thanks very much for all that reporting. let's bring in cnn's kristen holmes, who is covering the trump campaign. kristen trump just posted on his social media platform, truth, social about the i
there's a filing due on friday to judge tanya chutkan in the trial court in federal court, washington dc see they'll have to propose some timelines and then there's a hearing before judge chutkan scheduled for next thursday. donald trump will very likely be putting in another not guilty plea. we don't expect him to be there at that hearing but there is going to be a lot of discussion about how fast should things move forward and what does the court need to do to decide can the pence stuff in...
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it survived a motion to dismiss by donald trump that was filed in front of judge chutkan. it's the same judge. the same indictment went to the d.c. circuit court of appeals had survived attack by trump there. it was only the supreme court that the damage, if any, to the indictment but what we are hearing maybe there wasn't damage. one of the questions i've been asked from others is, why no new codefendant in this case? it's only case in indictment donald trump had where he was facing the charges by his lonesome. >> in fact, if there were to be a superseding indictment, would've thought that would be the reason to do it. we got those unindicted co- conspirators remaining in the indictment. one has been removed. speculation is that person who is now out of the case was jeffrey clark who was a justice department official who came close to being the acting attorney general. he is out because they conduct is official conduct. the others remain. speculation being rudy giuliani and john eastman and some of the others. those five unindicted co- conspirators are still there. i spec
it survived a motion to dismiss by donald trump that was filed in front of judge chutkan. it's the same judge. the same indictment went to the d.c. circuit court of appeals had survived attack by trump there. it was only the supreme court that the damage, if any, to the indictment but what we are hearing maybe there wasn't damage. one of the questions i've been asked from others is, why no new codefendant in this case? it's only case in indictment donald trump had where he was facing the...
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judge chutkan. and i think she will do this. could say we're going to have a hearing. it's not a trial. there's no jury. there's no verdict, but i'm going to hear the prosecution's evidence and i'm going to decide what's official and what's not official. what she has immunity for, what he does not have immunity for and in that hearing, the prosecution may try to call explosive witnesses, including potentially mark meadows, maybe mike pence, and this could be happening in the next few weeks as we get close to the election. >> and does donald trump have to be there for that? what does that look like? >> so typically a defendant only has to be physically present for trial. he will have the option of being there. so i think the judge will give him the option sometimes judge, say this is too important. you do have to be physically present. of course, we're coming up on the stretcher on the election here. so he probably will be allowed to skip it if he's out on the trail, but the timing here, kaitlan, i mean, we're what, 95 days now, imagine mike pence taking the stand in th
judge chutkan. and i think she will do this. could say we're going to have a hearing. it's not a trial. there's no jury. there's no verdict, but i'm going to hear the prosecution's evidence and i'm going to decide what's official and what's not official. what she has immunity for, what he does not have immunity for and in that hearing, the prosecution may try to call explosive witnesses, including potentially mark meadows, maybe mike pence, and this could be happening in the next few weeks as...
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., the special counsel's office and trump's lawyers are set to appear before judge tanya chutkan fort june. and in a surprise this week, special counsel jack smith filed a superseding indictment, reread and to address the supreme court's ruling, but still charging trump with the same four felony crimes. trump himself does not have to attend next thursday's hearing, but the case will likely be on his mind. when just five days later, he faces off against vice president kamala harris in their first presidential debate. joining me now for more, former federal prosecutor and fbi general counsel andrew weissmann, who co-hosts msnbc's podcast, prosecuting donald trump andrew, thanks for being here. you and i love to noodle all things legal, all the time. so, we would just kind of opened the curtain here and let people into how you and i talk about this. where hitting the refresh button, that's why i have my computer here. where supposed to get a status report in the d.c. federal election interference case. your thoughts about what you think that report is going to look like? >> sure, so, th
., the special counsel's office and trump's lawyers are set to appear before judge tanya chutkan fort june. and in a surprise this week, special counsel jack smith filed a superseding indictment, reread and to address the supreme court's ruling, but still charging trump with the same four felony crimes. trump himself does not have to attend next thursday's hearing, but the case will likely be on his mind. when just five days later, he faces off against vice president kamala harris in their...
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now, federal judge tanya chutkan, who is overseeing that case. she wants to hear from trump's legal team and the special counsel by tomorrow on a timeline going forward, let's bring in cnn, senior legal analyst and former federal and state prosecutor, elie honig, who is here. so l.a. tomorrow's the deadlines. what exactly are we watching for? >> this is where the real fight begins or how now, earlier this week, what jack smith did is he took his original indictment and we're talking about the dc case, the january 6 case. any pared it down. he tries to conform it with the supreme court's immunity ruling. so we took out some of the allegations, but that's not the end of the story now, the parties have to tell the judge, well, how do we go through the new indictment? and figure out what's an official act and therefore immune and out of the case. and what's an unofficial act and therefore, in the case, trump's going to say the whole thing's an official act. you should throw out the whole indictment and jack smith is going to say, all that's left in t
now, federal judge tanya chutkan, who is overseeing that case. she wants to hear from trump's legal team and the special counsel by tomorrow on a timeline going forward, let's bring in cnn, senior legal analyst and former federal and state prosecutor, elie honig, who is here. so l.a. tomorrow's the deadlines. what exactly are we watching for? >> this is where the real fight begins or how now, earlier this week, what jack smith did is he took his original indictment and we're talking about...
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now that the supreme court has returned the case to the district court judge, tanya chutkan. but in a new filing tonight it is the special counsel jack smith not trump's lawyers seeking a delay for more time. as smith considers what impact the supreme court's immunity ruling should have on his case. joining me now is a former federal prosecutor and senior writer for political magazine. good to see you. thank you for being with us. usually it's trump folks asking for delays on stuff. what do you think is happening here? >> i'm sure they're thrilled by this development. i think there's a few possibilities. it's hard to say for sure. one possibility i think is in play here is potentially the department is considering whether and to what extent they're comfortable moving this case forward in this final few months of the election. i think that's somewhat unlikely since the position the government has taken in this case and in the case down in florida is that essentially there should be no preelection blackout period on pretrial proceedings because the case has already been charged
now that the supreme court has returned the case to the district court judge, tanya chutkan. but in a new filing tonight it is the special counsel jack smith not trump's lawyers seeking a delay for more time. as smith considers what impact the supreme court's immunity ruling should have on his case. joining me now is a former federal prosecutor and senior writer for political magazine. good to see you. thank you for being with us. usually it's trump folks asking for delays on stuff. what do you...
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now, this sets up, of course, a hearing next thursday before judge chutkan, who will be the one that decides how we move forward with this case what's at stake at the hearing is she trying to get a trial started before the election? look, everything looked like that's what she was doing until of course, the supreme court made that ruling limiting what the government can use in its evidence. and of course, on the president's immunity. so we don't expect brianna that we are going to have a trial between now and the election simply because donald trump is going to do everything he can to try to interfere with that. we know, for instance, that he will try to go to the appeals court on this latest on this latest indictment. right. because he certainly believes that this new indictment does not meet the test that was set up by the supreme court. again, this here hearing next thursday is going to be certainly a big clash of those ideas going forward. >> all right, evan perez, thank you so much for that. are on our outfront legal analyst ryan goodman is with us now at ryan, tell us why the t
now, this sets up, of course, a hearing next thursday before judge chutkan, who will be the one that decides how we move forward with this case what's at stake at the hearing is she trying to get a trial started before the election? look, everything looked like that's what she was doing until of course, the supreme court made that ruling limiting what the government can use in its evidence. and of course, on the president's immunity. so we don't expect brianna that we are going to have a trial...
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have they done it surgically in a way that makes the case easier to survive in judge chutkan's courtppeals beyond? it is interesting to me. jack smith got rid of the stuff he knew was going away, but it is interesting. he has allegations about mike ends. mike pence and donald trump's communications with him are probably squarely in the middle zone. the zone where it might be presumptively immune, but that can be overcome by the correct evidence if jack smith can put it forward. that signals to me that jack smith, while he got rid of the stuff he knew was going to be out, is still feeling ambitious about anything that is a gray area. he still wants to move forward with those mike pence type allegations, so he is feeling confident enough and wisely got rid of the stuff that could not have been kept in the indictment. >> let me ask you about the civil rights case because we have heard trump and his attorneys try to say there are no victims in this crime. that it is barred by the statute of limitations. they even go so far as saying there was no evidence of intent to defraud. debunk that
have they done it surgically in a way that makes the case easier to survive in judge chutkan's courtppeals beyond? it is interesting to me. jack smith got rid of the stuff he knew was going away, but it is interesting. he has allegations about mike ends. mike pence and donald trump's communications with him are probably squarely in the middle zone. the zone where it might be presumptively immune, but that can be overcome by the correct evidence if jack smith can put it forward. that signals to...
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i think judge chutkan's has to grapple with that in some way, to an extent she already has a hearingtrump does not need to show up in person. she has to make a decision not only in the timing of a potential "mini" trial. the critical question is, does she require trump be there in person, as she has the power to do? obviously, that would be disruptive to his campaign plans, especially if the hearing takes place in the middle of september or october to >> absolutely. politico's josh gerstein, always good to hear from you. thanks. >>> we're talking deep states -- veep stakes next, big announcement, that is next. with some help from j.p. morgan wealth plan. let's go whiskers. jen y is working with a banker to budget for her birthday. you only turn 30 once. and jen z? her credit's golden. hello new apartment. three jens getting ahead with chase. solutions that grow with you. one bank for now. for later. for life. chase. make more of what's yours. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes a
i think judge chutkan's has to grapple with that in some way, to an extent she already has a hearingtrump does not need to show up in person. she has to make a decision not only in the timing of a potential "mini" trial. the critical question is, does she require trump be there in person, as she has the power to do? obviously, that would be disruptive to his campaign plans, especially if the hearing takes place in the middle of september or october to >> absolutely. politico's...
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what that means here is that he's providing a roadmap that judge chutkan after hearing from the formersident's lawyers could potentially move this case forward to trial. that trial is not going to happen before election day, but it does show that the department of justice has no intention of backing off on this case and is moving full speed ahead. >> so moving full speed ahead, lisa, what exactly happens next with this election interference case? >> so, josÉ, one of the reasons that the department of justice might have put forward that superseding indictment yesterday is because they were already facing a deadline this coming friday for a joint status report with former president trump's lawyers, that's where each party was supposed to tell judge chutkan how they think this case should move forward and when and how. that deadline still exists. unless the judge cancels that we should hear what comes next. my expectation is that former president trump's lawyers will say we get a whole new round of briefing to move to dismiss this indictment on grounds including but not limited to the fac
what that means here is that he's providing a roadmap that judge chutkan after hearing from the formersident's lawyers could potentially move this case forward to trial. that trial is not going to happen before election day, but it does show that the department of justice has no intention of backing off on this case and is moving full speed ahead. >> so moving full speed ahead, lisa, what exactly happens next with this election interference case? >> so, josÉ, one of the reasons...
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that the closest model to what judge chutkan could do.e would likely get new evidence that we were not aware of from january 6th hearings. >> do you think, i mean, it feels like the biggest sort of dispute. coming from state election officials. officials. >> you would have people at the state side. and the people who actually made the recording. to talk about what was said to give some color to the context in which there's conversations occurred. you can also have people from within the white house. and again, remember, just because they are in the white house doesn't mean that all of their testimony will be something that can't be heard. especially if you can share in the white house they were acting on behalf of candidate trump. there is a big argument for that. if you say mind me a certain number of votes that wasn't something he was doing, you know, as president. it is worth noting while we do know a lot from the january 6th committee hearings, remember, there are a lot of who within the white house called to testify who claimed privi
that the closest model to what judge chutkan could do.e would likely get new evidence that we were not aware of from january 6th hearings. >> do you think, i mean, it feels like the biggest sort of dispute. coming from state election officials. officials. >> you would have people at the state side. and the people who actually made the recording. to talk about what was said to give some color to the context in which there's conversations occurred. you can also have people from within...
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to have a mini-trial to suss out what evidence applies after the supreme court's ruling judge chutkan may try to do that. >> a part of the problem though, is the use of immune evidence during grand jury proceedings that led to the indictment in this case, the supreme court was very clear that immune evidence can't be used who's even in cases involving non-immune conduct. so in all, we believe that this case has been struck a fatal blow by the supreme court, and that there's simply no way to disentangle immune from non-immune based on how the case has proceeded thus far that's a less reported aspect of the supreme court's opinion than its overall ruling on what what acts are immune. but evidentiary exclusion we believe is going to be one of the key issues litigated in the coming weeks. >> we have a new story. our colleague hannah rabinowitz wrote about judge tanya chutkan talking to people who have practiced in front of her the story notes that she's already decided in the trump case 15 motions mostly in favor of the special counsel, but at least one former trump attorney suggested she
to have a mini-trial to suss out what evidence applies after the supreme court's ruling judge chutkan may try to do that. >> a part of the problem though, is the use of immune evidence during grand jury proceedings that led to the indictment in this case, the supreme court was very clear that immune evidence can't be used who's even in cases involving non-immune conduct. so in all, we believe that this case has been struck a fatal blow by the supreme court, and that there's simply no way...
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and then judge chutkan's going to have to sort it out. but whatever she decides, trump has the right to appeal to the mid-level court of appeals and then to ask the supreme court to take it currently before trial, which is why if trial happens in this case ever, it's not going to be for quite awhile not before the election, nowhere to be 100% clear. >> i think the tenor of the entire discussion in the last few months about all the cases about donald trump has been oh if he wins the election slash when he wins the election, all these cases go away. >> well, the election looks a lot different now potentially that it might have a couple of months ago when joe biden was still running trump could lose what happens if he loses to these cases? >> it's such a good reminder of the stakes for donald trump, the individual, because if he wins here he's president and these cases all go away or get put on indefinite long-term hold. >> but if he loses, he's going to have to contend with all four of these cases. now, the case we've been talking about, th
and then judge chutkan's going to have to sort it out. but whatever she decides, trump has the right to appeal to the mid-level court of appeals and then to ask the supreme court to take it currently before trial, which is why if trial happens in this case ever, it's not going to be for quite awhile not before the election, nowhere to be 100% clear. >> i think the tenor of the entire discussion in the last few months about all the cases about donald trump has been oh if he wins the...
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>> that is one of the precise questions before judge chutkan.n describing the interaction with the vice president, with mike pence, described him as the president of the senate. not only the vice president of the executive branch, the president of the senate, presides over that legislative body. the special counsel theory, and this will be resolved by judge chutkan, is that when president trump is communicating with vice president pence, it's a vice presidential candidate talking to the president of the senate, and therefore, not within the president's official function, and not immune from a criminal case. >> thank you for clearing all of that up. let's talk about what happened this week, justice ketanji brown jackson speaking out about the supreme court majority granting trump unlimited immunity. let's watch that. >> i was concerned about a system that appeared to provide immunity for one individual under one set of circumstances. when we have a criminal justice system that had, ordinarily, treated everyone the same. >> tim, do you agree, and
>> that is one of the precise questions before judge chutkan.n describing the interaction with the vice president, with mike pence, described him as the president of the senate. not only the vice president of the executive branch, the president of the senate, presides over that legislative body. the special counsel theory, and this will be resolved by judge chutkan, is that when president trump is communicating with vice president pence, it's a vice presidential candidate talking to the...
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district judge, tanya chutkan, set a hearing next week to hear this course. what will happen? >> the trump team will argue more things should be off limits. the prosecutor will argue the new superseding indictment correctly frames what is permissible and therefore should remain triable and it's up to the judge to decide. chris, i don't think it will be simple or easy, but the prosecutors have laid out a more clear path. i think kudos to them for doing it. it was a smart move. judge chutkan still has to resolve a number of questions and she will do that at hearings that will, no doubt, we'll be following in the weeks and months to come. >> it also means that we are going to be calling on you next week, both of you, so thank you for this, chuck rosenberg and andrew weissmann. always appreciate it. >>> up next, the largest israeli raids in the west bank in decades. what they are trying to accomplish. you are watching chris jansing reports on msnbc. of dell ai and. ♪ to see hundreds of miles of tracks. ♪ [vroom] [train horn] [buzz] clearing the way, [whoosh] so you arrive exactly
district judge, tanya chutkan, set a hearing next week to hear this course. what will happen? >> the trump team will argue more things should be off limits. the prosecutor will argue the new superseding indictment correctly frames what is permissible and therefore should remain triable and it's up to the judge to decide. chris, i don't think it will be simple or easy, but the prosecutors have laid out a more clear path. i think kudos to them for doing it. it was a smart move. judge...
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tanya chutkan, who's having a hearing next thursday.hat's going to really i think will determine a lot about what we are going to see between now and election day. >> yes, it's amazing how long it's taken to get these questions answered. there also new moves from trump's lawyers regarding his new york right. hush money case. tell us where that stands well, you know, he the former president and his legal team are trying to turn things on their heads, right? >> so what they're, what they're asking for is for judge, the judge in new york to essentially pause everything while they try to move that case to federal court. the goal there, of course, is if he moves it to federal court it most likely dies, right and what they're citing is jack smith's new indictment. they're saying that because that indictment is clearly trying to take into account the official acts that the supreme court says. the former president can't be charged with. its a signal that some of the things at some of the evidence that was used in the new york case in the hush m
tanya chutkan, who's having a hearing next thursday.hat's going to really i think will determine a lot about what we are going to see between now and election day. >> yes, it's amazing how long it's taken to get these questions answered. there also new moves from trump's lawyers regarding his new york right. hush money case. tell us where that stands well, you know, he the former president and his legal team are trying to turn things on their heads, right? >> so what they're, what...
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judge chutkan has sent a hearing scheduled for thursday to discuss the next steps.awyer and co- owner of the sisters-in-law podcast, i get to take off my glasses and talk to a lawyer, joyce, so great to have you. i read your piece around the superseding indictment that you wrote for sub stack, very impressive and very clear. you said this should be taken as a sign that jack smith is just getting started. what do you mean by that and what do you think we should expect going forward, following this immunity decision? >> it's clear from the superseding indictment that smith understands what the assignment is here. and that is to hone the indictment down to the point that it complies with the supreme court's directive that he can only charge donald trump with nonofficial conduct or perhaps with official conduct, if he can overcome the presumption that charging official conduct would be damaging to the office of the presidency. that means there are a lot of finely tuned decisions that judge chutkan would have to make about which charges can go forward and what evidence t
judge chutkan has sent a hearing scheduled for thursday to discuss the next steps.awyer and co- owner of the sisters-in-law podcast, i get to take off my glasses and talk to a lawyer, joyce, so great to have you. i read your piece around the superseding indictment that you wrote for sub stack, very impressive and very clear. you said this should be taken as a sign that jack smith is just getting started. what do you mean by that and what do you think we should expect going forward, following...
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now that the supreme court returned the case to the district court judge, tanya chutkan.ial counsel jack smith, not trump's lawyers, seeking a delay for more time. smith considers what impact the supreme court unity ruling should have on his case. joining me is former federal prosecutor and senior writer for plutko magazine. good to see you, thank you for being with us. usually trump folks are asking for delays on stuff, what do you think is happening here? >> i think they're thrilled by the development, i think there's a possibility, hard to say for sure, one half ability in place as potentially the department considering whether and what extent there is a boat moving the case forward in the final few months of the election. i think that is somewhat unlikely since the position the government has taken in this case and the case in florida is essentially there should be no pre-election blackout period on pretrial proceedings because the cases are not even charged. other speculation to the effect potentially the government getting ready to file superseding indictment, that
now that the supreme court returned the case to the district court judge, tanya chutkan.ial counsel jack smith, not trump's lawyers, seeking a delay for more time. smith considers what impact the supreme court unity ruling should have on his case. joining me is former federal prosecutor and senior writer for plutko magazine. good to see you, thank you for being with us. usually trump folks are asking for delays on stuff, what do you think is happening here? >> i think they're thrilled by...
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judge chutkan keeps this case as well.have been a separate grand jury, but there's no new charges. there's always been the position from special counsel jack smith, we've heard it in the classified documents case and in other prosecutions of donald trump, that once a case has begun, once the prosecution commenced it can continue to do so up through and including and beyond election day. so this is more postures from donald trump, but it were not be a legal basis to get the superseding indictment dismissed. >> and, paul, this new indictment includes donald trump's conversations with the vice president, mike pence. why would the prosecution choose to keep this part in? >> a great question, jose. i was surprised jack smith left in allegations regarding the former vice president, because the supreme court decision says that most conversations between the president and his vice president are immunized, because the vice president is part of the executive, and what jack smith is likely to say is that the charges in the indictment
judge chutkan keeps this case as well.have been a separate grand jury, but there's no new charges. there's always been the position from special counsel jack smith, we've heard it in the classified documents case and in other prosecutions of donald trump, that once a case has begun, once the prosecution commenced it can continue to do so up through and including and beyond election day. so this is more postures from donald trump, but it were not be a legal basis to get the superseding...
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judge chutkan will rule. what happens next? >> it is paragraph by paragraph and by allegation.emes before. one involved the department of justice and roberts said that is out, but for still remain. that is how it will be presented to a jury. chutkan will want to know. paragraph 33 says meadows is sometimes private, sometimes official. what is this conversation? mike pence in this paragraph, going at him, is that something that is official or is it no good? in other words because of what roberts said, that conduct can't come in as evidence. she will have to go through it paragraph by paragraph and this is a pretty aggressive doubling down. i think it shows he is ready to take on a fight that could really elongate the timeline of the case. >> i've got to say, well, i don't know what will happen in the future. i think if things go the way i hope they do in the long view of history this decision, this immunity decision will end up in that kind of anti-canon. really like ahistorical mass and mistake and i think you can see it on the page. harry litman, thanks very much. >> thanks, c
judge chutkan will rule. what happens next? >> it is paragraph by paragraph and by allegation.emes before. one involved the department of justice and roberts said that is out, but for still remain. that is how it will be presented to a jury. chutkan will want to know. paragraph 33 says meadows is sometimes private, sometimes official. what is this conversation? mike pence in this paragraph, going at him, is that something that is official or is it no good? in other words because of what...
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we could also hear from judge tanya chutkan in the matter. both sides are scheduled to appear before judge chutkan for a hearing next week, the first court hearing in that case since the supreme court ruling. that hearing is next thursday, september 5, just five days before donald trump will face off in a debate with vice president harris on september 10. the following week, september 16, new york judge one merchan is set to rule on trump's motion to have the verdict in the hush money interference case thrown out because of the supreme court's ruling on immunity. if he declines to do so, trump will be sentenced in that case on september 18, seven weeks before election day, november 5. in addition to ruling on trump's immunity motion in new york, judge marchand has yet to rule on trump's request to postpone his sentencing until after the election. so trump's lawyers are throwing another hail mary on that. late thursday his lawyers filed to move the matter to federal court in yet another delay tactic, citing the supreme court's ruling in july.
we could also hear from judge tanya chutkan in the matter. both sides are scheduled to appear before judge chutkan for a hearing next week, the first court hearing in that case since the supreme court ruling. that hearing is next thursday, september 5, just five days before donald trump will face off in a debate with vice president harris on september 10. the following week, september 16, new york judge one merchan is set to rule on trump's motion to have the verdict in the hush money...
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all of this leads to the question that judge chutkan is going to have to adjudicate, which is did he rework this enough? >> yeah, i think that's right. and i think intrump team will attack this and say all this conduct is official and immune from criminal prosecution. but as you point out one of the things they do here at any many junctures in this indictment point out, for example, trump's speech at the rally was a campaign speech that was privately funded, so making it clear this was not official conduct. that conversation with mike pence in his capacity as president of the senate discussing blocking the certification. even the very first paragraph of the indictment now refers to donald trump not as the 45th president of the united states but as a candidate for president in 2020. and so i think that will be argued, but i think they have paired away all the official conduct now such this should be in good shape to go forward. we'll see if the courts agree. >> changes big and small. i think now the next big question is what happens next, and on what kind of a time line? obviously tru
all of this leads to the question that judge chutkan is going to have to adjudicate, which is did he rework this enough? >> yeah, i think that's right. and i think intrump team will attack this and say all this conduct is official and immune from criminal prosecution. but as you point out one of the things they do here at any many junctures in this indictment point out, for example, trump's speech at the rally was a campaign speech that was privately funded, so making it clear this was...
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judge tanya chutkan wants the arguments ahead of the thursday hearing.as given a hint of what he plans to argue, recasting his case as a prosecution of a candidate for president instead of a sitting president. in his superseding indictment that he filed earlier this week. joining us now, nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. when we're talking about laying out a path forward in these cases, what exactly do we mean? i imagine that donald trump's lawyers are going to say there's no path forward, the whole thing has to be tossed. >> that's exactly right. the superseding indictment is the opening bid. each side has until midnight to file the proposed scheduling document. it will reflect their ideas about how to move forward in the case in the wake of the immunity decision, and the special counsel's superseding indictment removes actions by trump that would be considered official acts. trumps lawyers will suggest it doesn't go far enough. it's likely to be further arguments proposed in this document, and perhaps a series of hearings on
judge tanya chutkan wants the arguments ahead of the thursday hearing.as given a hint of what he plans to argue, recasting his case as a prosecution of a candidate for president instead of a sitting president. in his superseding indictment that he filed earlier this week. joining us now, nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. when we're talking about laying out a path forward in these cases, what exactly do we mean? i imagine that donald trump's lawyers are going to say...
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so we're waiting for judge chutkan to reveal her schedule, right.e plan to approach this because she has big decisions gins to make. first of all, she has to apply the supreme court case to the facts that were charged last year. she has to decide okay. which of these that have been charged are official acts where he would have immunity, which are unofficial acts that will survive. but then there's an even more complicated question. or if you're going to charge him with some acts are deemed beneficial are any of those supported by evidence that are deemed official acts because this is a little known part of the supreme court decision where the like, you can't even use official acts as evidenced, even if what you're charging is unofficial, it seems like that's a little in the weeds, but this is the ball game in earlier today, i spoke with one of trump's lawyers, will scharf about how he sees the fight that they have in front of them. let's take a listen a part of the problem though, is the use of immune evidence during grand jury proceedings that led
so we're waiting for judge chutkan to reveal her schedule, right.e plan to approach this because she has big decisions gins to make. first of all, she has to apply the supreme court case to the facts that were charged last year. she has to decide okay. which of these that have been charged are official acts where he would have immunity, which are unofficial acts that will survive. but then there's an even more complicated question. or if you're going to charge him with some acts are deemed...
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and tanya chutkan, the judge, has indicated since getting the case back from the supreme court that she wants to move forward quickly. she's already denied some motions from the trump team and has tried to have a hearing on august 19th. obviously, jack smith asking for that date to be pushed back into september. i want to read a little bit of what jack smith wrote to the trial court, though, and his request says the government continues to assess the new precedent set forth last month in the trump in the supreme court's decision in trump v. united states, including through consultation with other department of justice components. although those consultations are well underway, the government has not finalized its position on the most appropriate schedule for the parties to brief issues related to the decision, so not only do jack smith and his team say that they need more time to figure out what the immunity ruling means for the case itself, but also to sort out the schedule going forward will have to see if judge chutkan ultimately allows jack smith this delay, but jack smith has spoke
and tanya chutkan, the judge, has indicated since getting the case back from the supreme court that she wants to move forward quickly. she's already denied some motions from the trump team and has tried to have a hearing on august 19th. obviously, jack smith asking for that date to be pushed back into september. i want to read a little bit of what jack smith wrote to the trial court, though, and his request says the government continues to assess the new precedent set forth last month in the...
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what is the latest on the judge chutkan case, the case regarding donald trump and the election? >> on friday of this week, the parties have a joint status report due to judge chutkan, where they are supposed to tell her each of their respective positions on how she should proceed with that case in the wake of the supreme court's presidential immunity decision. they were supposed to do that on august 9th, katy, as you will remember, and then the special counsel's office came forward on that day, and said you know what, we need more time to do consultations through different components of the department of justice. i should note that in saying that, they're essentially undermining one of trump's best arguments here by saying, hey, we have to talk to everybody else at the department of justice. we have to talk to the dad's office, and maybe to the criminal division, to the olc and such. they're essentially saying, hey, we're part of the this whole department. we work well with others. we are part of the attorney general's structure, and that's what remains to be seen. what it is th
what is the latest on the judge chutkan case, the case regarding donald trump and the election? >> on friday of this week, the parties have a joint status report due to judge chutkan, where they are supposed to tell her each of their respective positions on how she should proceed with that case in the wake of the supreme court's presidential immunity decision. they were supposed to do that on august 9th, katy, as you will remember, and then the special counsel's office came forward on...
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the second is what do you want, judge chutkan to do? do you want her to rule on the immunity claims on the briefs? where do you want her to have an evidentiary hearing and they're going to have to puzzle through that as well. >> yeah. there's a lot to kind of sort through and unpack and it is interesting to see this contrast seeming contrast and judge chutkin, who seemed ready to move forward pretty quickly. when she got this case back. last week, she was trying to move it along and now has granted this request from jack smith well, i think judges typically jessica will honor concurred request. >> in other words not surprisingly, trump's lawyers agreed to the request and it's going to take some time, not just to decide as a threshold matter whether they want to dismiss some counts, but on the question of an evidentiary hearing, how do you conduct that? and that's an interesting exercise in and of itself. you usually don't see that in a criminal proceeding, but that would be judge chutkan taking a look at pieces of what the government's
the second is what do you want, judge chutkan to do? do you want her to rule on the immunity claims on the briefs? where do you want her to have an evidentiary hearing and they're going to have to puzzle through that as well. >> yeah. there's a lot to kind of sort through and unpack and it is interesting to see this contrast seeming contrast and judge chutkin, who seemed ready to move forward pretty quickly. when she got this case back. last week, she was trying to move it along and now...
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we wednesday night dynamite at 8:00 on tbs new this morning in washington, dc federal judge tanya chutkan is set to regain control of the criminal case against former president trump or his attempt to overturn the 2020 election. >> now, this comes with just 94 days left until this election day and barely a month after the supreme court ruled to trump has sweeping immunity for official acts. he took as part president, let's bring in cnn senior justice correspondent evan perez, who joins us with the latest so evan, even if judge chutkan has the case back today, what does that mean? what can we expect to happen next? >> well, the first thing that we might see from the judge is an order telling the two sides telling donald trump and telling the justice department to essentially tell her what they want to do and to set it up, perhaps a briefing schedule, and that could happen as soon as today. it could happen in the next in the next few days but look, i mean, the former president's strategy of delaying this case to make sure that it doesn't happen before the election is pretty close to being a
we wednesday night dynamite at 8:00 on tbs new this morning in washington, dc federal judge tanya chutkan is set to regain control of the criminal case against former president trump or his attempt to overturn the 2020 election. >> now, this comes with just 94 days left until this election day and barely a month after the supreme court ruled to trump has sweeping immunity for official acts. he took as part president, let's bring in cnn senior justice correspondent evan perez, who joins us...
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was the reasonable approach to take, you no reason to go through a series of hearings before judge chutkan enforce the task of editing the indictment on her. when you look forward a forceful case like this? and do the work for her. alright. so then what happens? she gets this case as evan was laying out next week, what happens then and does i mean, i guess then does eventually just go back to the supreme court. where is this fast or slow from here so it will be slow from here. not, not merely because of the superseding being indictment, whatever the indictment was going to look like after it went through whatever hearings that judge chutkan is going to happen, she still will have a hearing on the adequacy of this indictment it does have you know, there is a interlocutory appeal available, at least as i read the supreme court decision and that doesn't mean the supreme court has to take it if the dc circuit acts before in their content with whatever they do. but this is definitely, this has never, this hasn't been on course to go before the election. >> for months. and this was never going w
was the reasonable approach to take, you no reason to go through a series of hearings before judge chutkan enforce the task of editing the indictment on her. when you look forward a forceful case like this? and do the work for her. alright. so then what happens? she gets this case as evan was laying out next week, what happens then and does i mean, i guess then does eventually just go back to the supreme court. where is this fast or slow from here so it will be slow from here. not, not merely...
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this is all going to be litigated before judge tonya chutkan, and whatever judge chutkan rules and preservesn be appealed to the circuit court and all the way to the supreme court before there's a trial in this case. even if donald trump losing the election, this is going to take a while to litigate, and ultimately, may be back before the supreme court again on what constitutes official acts and what trump can be tried for. >> smith has opted for what is deemed a mini trial, to lay out all the evidence knowing as you just noted wouldn't come to trial. but this way, the american people, voters, would know what was at stake. does this move now, what smith did yesterday, rule out that mini trial from happening? >> not entirely. there's still going to be some of the evidentiary hearings and disputes about what can come in. particularly, we can expect donald trump's legal team to challenge what can come in and arguing there were official acts that should be struck. there would be hearings on that. and trump's team is going to get is discovery and have all of the evidence. as we know, evidence tha
this is all going to be litigated before judge tonya chutkan, and whatever judge chutkan rules and preservesn be appealed to the circuit court and all the way to the supreme court before there's a trial in this case. even if donald trump losing the election, this is going to take a while to litigate, and ultimately, may be back before the supreme court again on what constitutes official acts and what trump can be tried for. >> smith has opted for what is deemed a mini trial, to lay out...
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it seems unlikely that judge tanya chutkan will take a similar approach.think she's good to take the same view of the law is judge cannon. she will hold the jack smith appointment that was constitutional in number two judge tanya chutkan sits in washington, d.c. in the court of appeals has already suggested that the special counsel may be constitutional in buying judge cannon to bring the opposite conclusion. >> judge juan mershon is still scheduled to sense trump them september. you don't have to be nostradamus to figure he doesn't have to dismiss this case or overturn the verdict. i can't recall the exact phrase but if needed in the recent order what is going on with the new york sensing. >> those are two interesting words, if necessary to sense trump. like you i would not be optimistic that he is going to do anything pro trump. i don't think he's going to throw out the conviction. i don't think he's going to say the supreme court community decision has a significant impact on this verdict. i suspect he'll say i looked at it i don't think there was a lot
it seems unlikely that judge tanya chutkan will take a similar approach.think she's good to take the same view of the law is judge cannon. she will hold the jack smith appointment that was constitutional in number two judge tanya chutkan sits in washington, d.c. in the court of appeals has already suggested that the special counsel may be constitutional in buying judge cannon to bring the opposite conclusion. >> judge juan mershon is still scheduled to sense trump them september. you...