but the trail ended cold year after year. >> eric rudolph had home field advantage. n playing in these woods since he was a kid. he camped in them when he was a teenager. he knew these woods intimately. >> reporter: rudolph spotted in july, 1998. he turned up at the home of the owner of a health food store trying to buy food. the owner recognized him and refused. but when the owner returned two days later, he found that 75 pound of food and his truck were missing. on the table, five $100 bills. authorities say rudolph killed and ate turkeys, deer, bears, sal manneders, and stole corn, soy beans and grain from bins at a giant cornfield. to stay warm during bitter cold win winters authorities say he would break into cabins and bundle himself of in piles of leaves. >> eric rudolph was living off the grid before he had to go off the grid. it was as if he had been preparing for this. >> reporter: despite years of searching for rudolph deep in the wood. he was finally arrested dumpster diving in the back of a grocery store looking for fruits and vegetables to freeze for the

but the trail ended cold year after year. >> eric rudolph had home field advantage. n these woods since he was a kid. he camped in them when he was a teenager. he knew she's woods inmately. >> reporter: rudolph was spotted in july 1998. he turned up at the home of an owner of a health food store trying to buy food. the owner recognized him and refused. but when the owner returned two days later, he found that 75 pounds of food and his truck were missing. on the table, five $100 bills. rudolph killed and ate turkeys, deer bears, salamanders and corn from a giant cornfield. to stay warm during bitter cold winters, he would break into cabins and bundle himself up in piles of leaves. >> eric rudolph was living off the grid before he actually had to go off the grid. it was as if he had been preparing for this. >> reporter: despite years of searching for rudolph deep in the woods, he was finally arrested dumpster diving in the back of a grocery store looking for fruits and vegetables to freeze for the winter. >> it was luck. they had given up the hunt. they had given up the

special agent in charged with the eric rudolph the bomber in georgia. thank you for joining us.t strikes me he was a hardened killer a cop killer would said if a police officer ever confronted him he would "blow them away." he was convicted of killing one police officer a sheriff deputies in broome county in 2002 shooting him when he confronted him after a robbery and driving offer his body with his honey da. what do you think happened? how did it go down? was he armed? kudos to law enforcement authorities and sergeant jay cook forgetting this guy and bringing him in. >> it is an outstanding operation no civilians were hurt and no law enforcement officers were hurt. this type of operation obviously is resource intensive. all these different police agencies have primary missions and day-to-day protecting their communities and everything they normally need to do. now you are doing or fulfilling that responsibility in addition to the contrails of resources to identify the to men. the subject have demonstrated history of violence and being sociopathic. these officers had to operate

but the trail ended cold year after year. >> eric rudolph had home field advantage. woods since he was a kid. he camped in them since he was teenager. >> reporter: he turned up at the home of the owner of a health food store trying to buy food. tone the owner recognized him and refused. but when the owner returned two days later he found that 75 pound of food and his truck were missing, on the table five $100 bills. he killed bears and sal la-- he would break into cabins and bundle himself up in piles of leaves. >> he was living off the grid before he actually had to go off the grid. it was as though he had been prepared for this. >> reporter: despite years of searching for rudolph deep in the woods, he was finally arrested dumpster diving in the back of a grocery store. >> it was luck. they had given up the hunt the chase. and he fell into their laps. >> reporter: after his arrest rudolph described his chase with police as a long camping trip that lasted five years. investigators in upstate new york hunting for david sweat and richard matt hope it takes significantl

but the trail ended cold year after year. >> eric rudolph had home-field advantage. he had been playing in these woods since he was a kid. he camped in them when he was a teenager. he knew these woods intimately. >> rudolph was spotted in july of 1998. he turned up at the owner of a health department food store. the owner recognized him and refused. but when the owner returned two days later, he found that 75 pounds of food and his truck were missing. on the table, five $100 bills. >>> authorities say rudolph killed and aet turkeys bears and salamanders to stay warm during bitter cold winters. authorities say he would break into cabins and bundle himself up in piles of leaves. >> eric rudolph was living off the grid before he had to go off the grid. it was like he had been preparing for this. >> despite years of searching for rudolph, he was finally arrested dumpster diving in the back of a grocery store looking for fruts and vegetables to freeze for the winter. >> it was luck. they had given up the hunt. they had given up the chase. and, he fell into their laps. >> a

some people people like eric rudolph, do much better by themselves. empowered by the presence of another human being. clearly the two of them fed off of each other and needed one another to facilitate the escape and successfully evaded to this point together. i think going forward, it puts sweat at a disadvantage. i think this will likely come to an end sooner and i hope it comes to an end sooner rather than later. but sometimes these things ebb and flow. there are many cases, the case last year with eric fein in pennsylvania he was on the run for 48 days before he was finally captured. so terrain can be an obstacle weather can be an obstacle. just keep in mind he has to be lucky with every decision that he makes, every place that he hunkers down at night, every direction of travel that he picks, every decision that he makes, he's got to have luck on his side. law enforcement just has to be lucky once. >> it's been remarkable that he has been able to be on the lam for this long. appreciate the expertise. thank you, sir. >> thank you, poppy. >>> coming

with eric rudolph, it was a rookie police officer who showed up at a trash dumpster. ve-year run. >> there are other imsimilarities as well. what do we know about their life on the run? >> we know a lot. we are learning more each day and hopefully we'll learn more from him. we learned they had to break into cabins and steal food. they are not as much of a survivalist as we thought. they need to make sure that they are keeping dry and not drinking bad water and all the things that are the creature comforts in your house or your place that you don't have in the wilderness. they find out the hard way and end up with a lot of problems. >> this fugitive is in critical condition. investigators need him to stay alive because he can connect the dots in terms of how they broke out, who helped them. one theory is the department of corrections may not want him to stay alive because he will you know hypothetically reveal there was corruption and people on the inside were helping him. >> well we do hope we get a chance to talk to him. i know they are putting as much of a time and s

. >> you searched for eric rudolph and that took a lot of time and you knew or suspected that he was in that area because there kept being break-ins where items of necessity were taken from local homes. why aren't we seeing any of that here? >> that's one of unusual things about this. there's been a scarcity of information that reveals to us that these men are break into cab ins cabins or stealing things. perhaps they are hunkering down in one place and we haven't found them or perhaps they have fled the area. in eric rudolph we literally tracked him across the mountains breaking into cabins and stealing everything from underwear to books he was going to read to take up the time and food. in every one of these you're always hearing people say the trail's gone cold. but with respect to rudolph, remember he had murdered a police officer in birmingham got into the wood.swoods. an even though we felt he was there, it was five months before he made a run for it stole a truck, stole some food and kind of confirmed for us this is exactly where i'm at now come and find me. >> this requires a

it's hard to imagine two more challenging man hunts than eric rudolph and the unibomber. do you think these two inmates are smart enough to stay on the loose for long? >> i think they are. they could stay on the loose for a few more hours, days or weeks. i think that what you're seeing there is a massive investigation that's well organized, that's very integrated. you made reference earlier to several parts of it. but essentially they're looking at the escape and of course interviewing people. and the information that was laid out about joyce mitchell they're trying to determine what she knows and if she had much vomit, involvement. they're leaving no stone unturned. learning as much as they can about these men's habits and places they liked and inhabited before. and they're focused on the tactical element offense their search in the area of upstate new york. the whole purpose is to find them but also to try to seattle them -- seal them off. >> therefore these two legitimate sightings of them. one just after they popped out of that manhole. somebody thought they spotted t

look at eric rudolph. he stayed in those woods in north carolina for five years. the only reason he came out was his drug dealer died of a heart attack and he was starving to death. an america's most wanted fan saw him coming out of the woods and eating out of a dumpster. these guys i think are just trying to keep a low profile and say if we stay out here long enough they'll scale back this search and it will drop out of the news cycle. i think they're close to that prison. i don't think they got very far. >> always great to see you. we look forward to the hunt being back on cnn next month. thank you so much. >> thank you, allison. >> if you have any informing on the whereabouts of these the escaped inmates contact the u.s. marshal's tip line at 1-866-336-0102. if you don't have a pen, be sure to call 911. >>> a cleveland judge has recommended charges against police officers in the shooting death of tamir rice. he was playing with a pellet gun at a reck center when he was killed. martin, what has the community reaction been to this announcement? >> reporter: so fa

eric rudolph -- he certainly had some help in the woods. he was out there for five years. whitey bolger, even more. no, absolutely, it's a possibility. but i don't -- you know, we are running down every lead, again, we're in other states looking at a variety of people, with the sbrenl intelligence that's been gathered in law enforcement. so i hope they're not out there that long, let's put it that way. >> and what about -- how do you think lenny -- i mean, tommy lee jones and "the fugitive," how did they know, did they have blueprints of the prison? how did they know where they had to cut to get out, to make that precision cut. how do they know this? >> that's the $1 million question. how do they know that? they're sitting in a tube. how do they make such a precision cut on that tube. i mean, that was -- was it somebody on the outside? is there others involved? others are being questioned, from what i understand, in the prison. i hope not, but i still say that there's a -- they certainly had some other help and it was plan "a." >> we'll go to the d.a., andrew riley, later

he led the manhunt for eric rudolph, the centennial park bomber in 1996 who was able to flee and live for five years. when you look at similarities between these cases, someone being in a heavily wooded area, being able to sustain themselves and survive, what comparisons can you draw and also what has been learned from that hunt and applied to this. >> rudolph was an outdoors man. he knew the area he was in. living off the land for extended periods of time. he was in the military where he had survival training. rudolph went on the run, rudolph had a plan to escape he had cashed supplies of course when he went to that kach they had gotten wet and didn't do him any good. he stayed away from his social network i think you made an important point earlier. family friends acquaintances, as well as the use of technology the potential tracking of cellular telephones those are things that investigators are going to key in on if they can determine the number of phones these gentlemen have with them that can be a key to their capture, these are two completely different situations rudolph and the

that just tells me about eric rudolph, he was a good planner. good survival expert. if you're a good survival expert you don't need to come back in society. what they're missing is the tracks there is that link they will lead to that animal or person. >> if you don't have you know bug spray, things like that i mean how bad is it out there. the adirondacks, there are a lot of insects and mosquitos, you can get eaten up. >> absolutely there are tricks in the trade. rubbing mud and clays all over yourself. it also helps and reduces the heat signature. there is actual natural outcropping they can hide under and they're not going to see them. the natural mint keeps the bugs away. >> fascinating stuff, chris, shane, i appreciate you being with us. >>> coming up next a prison worker claims he was caught off guard by all of this the scheming the apparently infidelity the alleged plan to have him killed. lyle mitchell, next. y calling 844-824-2424. or visit your24info.com. see what it means to never settle. try t-mobile risk free for 14 days. can a busin

when eric rudolph was taken down what is the process? asking questions in the ambulance on the way to the hospital? purely medical care until he is in a stable condition? >> so that would depend on the circumstances. in a case of rudolph, he had been indicted and there were some things with regard to miranda you had to pay attention to. in this particular case they were escapees. you can do an investigation and charge them for the escape but you are not trying to investigate a homicide. at least not that we know of. so there are a lot of different techniques. the key is to have the right investigators in front of mr. sweat. somebody that's going to be able to gain rapport with him. find out what motivates him. they will have the very best and there are some extremely extremely skilled interviewers in the law enforcement community. so in my opinion, he will likely talk. most people do. it is just a matter of finding either something to incentivize them talking or appealing to some other motivation to get them to tell their story. poppy? >

a lot to talk about with the man who led the hunt for eric rudolph., let's talk about gene palmer now charges being brought against him. what does that tell you? does it raise more concerns what was going on and the security in the prison? >> it really does. i think the best you can say about the prison. it was loosely run. more like a prison camp than a maximum security prison housing murderers on death row and severing life sentences. it really is shocking to see how loose this prison was run. >> somebedody who killed a police officer, dismember and tortured someone else being on an honor block, allowed behind the catwalk, giving gifts to the guard. raises a lot of questions. about the manhunt itself there is now, there is evidence about a bloody sock was found. it is hard to tell much from that because we don't know how much blood there were -- there was on the sock. is it just from a blister? it would be totally understandable there would be a bloody sock after spending several days out in the wilderness. >> yeah i don't think they're going to foc

it is similar to eric robert rudolph. just good policing by a lone officer that caught him.of an area of focus, they were not focused as much in that area as the perimeter they had defined. >> chris, it is amazing when you think about how kind of relatively close he was to canada. he was not far from a very heavily wooded forested area gary tuchman not even a place that has trails and stuff. that dense. from there uninterrupted all the way to the border. >> yeah he may have -- been a little bit careless. maybe more than a little careless when he looked out and didn't see these, you know this huge presence of law enforcement in the search teams. i think maybe he felt like he could make a sprint to the border. it wasn't that far. had the maps to tell him that. so he took a chance. i think probably fatigue was a factor as well the you get to where you can't think clearly. >> doctor is there a way for authorities to tell how long ago a dna sample was left? i assume with rotted food there is. bugs things like that. >> unfortunately, just looking at the dna itself. you can't reall

i got to tell you, i think a lot were skeptical because people remember eric rudolph, he was a fugitiveive years.cident. so these guys could last out there. >> they could last out there. and again, you know this breakout was a very well manned breakout. so we don't really know what type of assistance that they have on the outside that could be assisting them now. but what we do know is that they are moving about. law enforcement do not believe that these individuals are stationery. if they were smart they would want to break apart. >> explain the advantage of splitting up. >> if you're the bad guy and you're running away from the police it's better if you break up and break apart because now what will happen is we'll have to devote our resources to two different areas. if we think the two individuals have split up. if you stay together, it makes it easier for us because now when we do find you, we'll get both you at the same time. >> plus we just showed a picture of the two killers escaped side by side and we talk about them in up side. so people are kind of expecting to see them togeth

if a cynical public helps them you create eric rudolph. got there and they are physically dangerous and psychologically dangerous, you isolate people that run out of food and capture is inevitable. the public has toz help law enforcement. this is a case where the entire community has to be involved so we have public safety. >> let's try to humanize the men. they describe psychopath charm, cleans up well has lots of friends, a mather manipulator. is that common against hard core criminals? >> what i have learned from interfacing with prisoners are the psychopaths we see in movies larger than life characters the ones they need to be concerned about are people who are understated and you don't feel like you are being manipulated. a psychopath imagine this they can pitch down your back and convince you it's raining. a good psychopath pitches down your back, convinces you it's raining, you know it's not and you thank them for the experience. that's the difference between somebody who is manipulative and the impact they have on people around the

. >> when you talk about somebody like eric rudolph, the centennial park bomber able to leave out inhe wilderness for five years, and it's different for these two escapees, but would you expect them to hunker down if they are in this area, the parameter being formed, and how long are they able to survive like that? >> yeah, they are going to have to hunker down for the short term because now there is an intensive law enforcement interests in the geographic area. there are three phases. it showed their imagination to escape from a prison that nobody had escaped from in over 100 years. and this is two weeks. people can live two weeks by their witnesses. even thank youly they will have to reach out for the social ned work and get help and they are going to have to rely on somebody or trust somebody, somebody they know or perhaps a perfect stranger. the third phase, they have to simulate back into society. very few prison escapees, very, very few in our history have ever done that, been able to escape and been able to evade and then get back into society and live a normal life. these two

it took law enforcement five years to find eric rudolph.a bombing in atlanta's centennial park. in 1998 he was added to the fbi's most-wanted list. five years later, rudolph is captured and arrested in north carolina by a rookie 21 year old police officer. these fugitives were caught. but what about the ones who get away? never to be found? according to the u.s. marshal service, there are currently 18,000 active federal warrants representing people the law is looking for but still hasn't found. gene ca sar jean casarez, cnn, new york. >>> a massive breach of security is said to be believed four times than first thought. now u.s. officials say the number is estimated to be 18 million people having been hacked. >> investigators blame china for the hack. but chinese say they weren't involved. it's a touchy subject, especially since u.s. and chinese official rgs meeting in washington tuesday for talks aimed at improving trust and cooperation. >> the irony is clear. we want to bring in david mckinzie live for us in beijing. so david these talks

eric rudolph, wanted for the 1996 olympic park bombing,h hid for five years in the mountains of northitive who killed a washington area doctor while on the run. >> welsh could really charm you easy will. the -- and he a girlfriend. she didn't know anything about highway. >> reporter: marshals have been to be creative they get in touch with relatives, former lawyers. they could still be moving together. what's the stress doing to them? >> i'm sure they're arguing, they're both psychotic in their own right. they each have their own way of doing things. they could be fighting over which way to go. >> but the tres isn't just on the fugitives. former marshals tell us every law enforcement official involved is working long hours, and every hours that goes by adds more stress. in the back of every law enforcement official's mind the desire to catch these killers before they hurt someone again, they're under -- >> and these kinds of fugitives often make their wind up. >> it's fascinating. they're telling us these fugitives on which slip up by contacting relatives. they say a lot of these peop

. >> also the former facebook agent that led the hunt for the hunt for olympic bomber eric rudolph.t do you think is the biggest bit of information we can likely get from david sweat? what's your number one question to him? >> well, i want to know, obviously a lot about the planning that led to the successful escape. then i'd like to know a bit more about how he successfully evaded for almost three weeks. finally there's a parallel between this investigation and the rudolph case. both apprehended with a single uniform police officer on patrol doing their jobs exceptionally. in the case of rudolph, young 19-year-old police officer by the name of jeff postal on routine patrol encountered him foraging for food in a dumpster. he called for backup and drew his weapon and the manhunt ended. sergeant cook, the veteran police officer doing his job as a supervisor in the perimeter, going likely from post to post checking on his guys encounters sweat this front of him. recognized who he had. sweat was not compliant. sweat took off running. only when with it became apparent he could make that

i remember eric rudolph, we have a picture of him. the olympic bomber. he was a fugitive in the wilderness of the appalachian mountains for five years before he was finally caught but only by accident. so these identifies could be out there for a long time. >> absolutely. i had a indicate, guy escaped from a virginia road gang in 1940. we caught him in 1990. these guys are clever. >> let me ask you about the other aspect of the story. "the new york times," big story today, security and inspections at the prison were lax guard towers vacant, no cam florida the cell blocks, rules routinely broken and complacency was rampant. >> i worked in the prison setting for a very brief time, and it's like a machine. if you don't oil that machine the machine is going to get fatigue, machine is going to break down. so i equate the prison system to a machine. there's fatigue among the officers not getting paid good wages, don't care. or if they're not doing their inspokes lax on their inspections, things happen and they were lax to a certain degree and these guys made t

eric rudolph became known as the olympic bomber during the olympic games in 1996.e former los angeles police officer christ sister dorner went on a rampage and wounded three others in a vendetta against his old comrades. the hunt for him ended in his death. dzhokhar tsarnaev the convicted killer in the marathon bombing. he and his brother went under the radar for days but police were on their trail after a shooting at the m.i.t. campus followed by a car chase and it left his older brother, tamerlan tsarnaev dead. a homeowner found dzhokhar hiding in a boat in a backyard. he was sentenced to death. eric matthew frein. he was authorities number one suspect and put on the ten most wanted fugitive list. after seven weeks on the run, he was tracked down by a u.s. marshall service in an abandoned airport. >>> next he spent nearly 30 years on death row for a crime he did not commit. now after life on the outside, a tragic ending to this man's story after an emotional meeting with the man who put him behind the bars in the first place. do not miss this. good! th y nutritio

. >> we're not talking about eric rudolph who has survivalist training and can spend a lot of time with pre positioned supplies, as far as we know, in remote that regions. this man who claims he saw the fugitives in his backyard. you're suspicious of that. why? >> i'm a little suspicious. we've seen this often in high profile cases, first when you have the public in a high state of awareness, they often see things that would not have otherwise look suspicious. they mean well and they call it in. it is something they wouldn't have otherwise noticed. other times we have people who sound bravado, appear to be helping in a way that didn't really exist. so it may have happened. i think the investigators are going to look at that with a jaundiced eye. >>> coming up next, a man who knows better than anyone how brutal richard matt can be. better than anyone who is still alive. a man who was an accomplice in the, and witness to the torture and murder that matt committed against his former boss. also, the woman who lost a fiance, a sheriff's deputy at the hands of david sweat. that and more as co

and was part of the manhunt for eric rudolph. charles, i wanted to start with you.ne of the things that's so different about this than the last few weeks is the fact that the first time, david sweat is traveling alone. knowing that do you think he has the wherewithal to survive. >> it depends on his background whether or not he has a lot of experience in the woods. his partner was killed but he is still out there by himself. by having one person on the run, he will leave less sign in the woods than two people running together. depending on his background. from what y'all have reported so far, i don't think he has a lot of experience being in the woods but has the right resources in the area. more patrol tactical unit they are used to tracking people. i think he will be apprehended in a short period of time. >> cedrick, we have been talking about these two sets of foot footprints that's why they believe david sweat was with matt before he was killed. do they have to change strategy now that it is one person as opposed to two? help us understand what this tactical uni

it took law enforcement five years to find eric rudolph.a series of bombings in georgia and alabama beginning in 1996 at atlanta's centennial lick park that resulted in two deaths. in 1998 he was added to the fbi's most wanted list. five years later, rudolph is captured and arrested in north carolina by a rookie 21-year-old police officer. these fugitives were caught. what about the ones who get away? never to be found. according to the u.s. marshal service, there are currently 18,000 active federal warrants representing people the law is looking for. but still hasn't found. jean casarez, cnn, new york. >> fascinating. coming up in the next live hour of "360," the manhunt for the two fugitives on the run and new information about the woman who may have helped them escape. you probably know xerox as the company that's all about printing. but did you know we also support hospitals using electronic health records for more than 30 million patients? or that our software helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure e-mail every month

advantage here i assume investigators have is i think if memory serves me in the eric fraim case and eric rudolphe survival spent a lot of time in the wood. that's not the case with these two guys. >> i don't believe the skill sets are anywhere where they need to be if in fact these two guys in the woods. which is a huge advantage. we're on day six, i believe, they don't have provisions. i've wouldn't i wouldn't think. not enough. probably delirious, turned around. the weather has been raining. so yeah. hopefully they screw up somehow and we get on to them quicker than we would like. >> maryellen, we know joyce mitchell had some sort of relationship with with david sweat. unclear exactly. she told investigators that richard matt made her feel "special." sweat had been removed from the tailor shop. didn't find evidence of what the relationship may have been. you said psychopaths can make rational people do irrational things. such a fascinating idea. can you talk more about that? >> sure. their ability to manipulate and con and persuade someone to -- to trust them. to engage with them. to convince

i well remember the olympic park bomber, eric rudolph, who lived as a fugitive in the woods of the appalachian mountains and he managed to evade authorities there who were scouring the area for a very, very long time. five long years. and the only reason he was caught was just dumb luck eventually. wasn't suspensional -- wasn't intentional. >> sometimes imtakes dumb luck wimp the manpower and resource being used to bring these two guys back to justice, i really think it's just a matter of time. >> yeah. look, the terrain is incredibly rugged up in. i go up to the adirondacks every super with my family. i always avoid june because the black flies there are just devastating and they're as big as a buick. they'll drive you crazy not to mention a mosquito. so it's not going to be easy for those guys out there. >> i'm certain they're out in the elements and used to being in the comfortable confines of the state prison there. so they'll probably want to come home before long. >> let me ask you about joyce mitchell. she was supposed to drive the getaway car say authorities. she didn't show up. is tha

i want to discuss more of this with special agent rick schwine, he led the search for eric rudolph. also with tom fuentes, he's in waempbl here washington. tom, let me begin with you. police are still operating under this assumption that the two men were together pretty much until the point yesterday when richard matt was shot and killed. but they say they don't have eyes on sweat. they don't have a scent trail. do you think it's most likely that these two men were together up until yesterday? >> poppy, i think they probably were together more or less in a survival mode helping each other as they broke into cabins. maybe taking turns sleeping so the other could keep a lookout for oncoming police. but i'm a little confused by some of this reporting from the police. yesterday evening, they were in hot pursuit, they said. they were right on top of the subject, they said. and now today nothing, and not even a scent. >> right. >> so that's a misuse of terminology. my definition in 40-some years in law enforcement, hot pursuit means you almost have visual with the exception that the dogs

think of restaurant dumpsters or some other source of food if they're not hunters, if they're not eric rudolph the woods five years. what else can they do to get food? >> well, a lot of times what people can do is embody the lifestyle of someone homeless. how do the homeless survive? dumpster diving. a lot of restaurants, supermarkets throw out food. do they have the knowledge to do that or learn how to do that? it's certainly possible. again, big brother is always watching. now it's all brothers and sisters are watching, right? everybody is eyes and ears. not only that we have so it fist kated surveillance systems. everybody has their cell phones and we certainly urge the public to reach out with any kind of tips to look for any of these strange behaviors as well. >> well, i certainly appreciate it. thank you so much for your insights. we continue to show you pictures as the authorities not only shut down roads but also are monitoring cars that pass by looking in back windows, looking in trunks, et cetera, residents in the deeply wooded area regularly approached by troopers and officers who s

know, i was special agent in charge in the birmingham division of atf when we had the bombing of eric rudolph. he killed a birmingham officer. he killed people in atlanta in the olympics. we chased him in the mountains of north carolina for five years. i mean, the fbi, the atf, the u.s. marshals, the state police agencies of georgia, north carolina, tennessee, bam balabae were all involved. it took us years. it reminds me of that and other manhunts of cop killers and so forth. we're just mortal men. we build them up in the media. and not wrongly. we build them up as dangerous and armed. and law enforcement does that from the podium because we want to keep the public safe. but they become giants. they become these big, archcriminal guys and all this stuff. and then when you catch them, this is what they are. they're a tired, hungry, desperate guy. matt had a gun, so he went down, you know, in a blaze. but this guy's just a tired, hungry guy. he's got the stolen fatigues from the hunting cabin. and what arthur said earlier i think is true. i mean, they got in a hunting cabin, probably turned th

whether eric rudolph or snipers or cop killers. the conversation you had with candice is spot on.nd she is right. but take that conversation that you had just a little further. these guys traveled 35 miles in 20 days. that's less than two miles a day. because that terrain's so rugged rugged. so they're not at a fast pace because they're trying to hide. they're having a lot of conversations. the evidence is they're together. and they're having a lot of conversations about i'm not going back. remember, these guys are not guys that are going to face a trial. there's a certainty of absolutely going back into the most secure facility. not the honor block. and they're having these conversations. i'm not going back. i'm not going back. once they gt the shotgun and/or a couple of guns that even gets enhanced. i don't care what happens, we're not going back. now some of that talk may be real and some bravado. like candice says suicide is ambivalent sometimes. you think you want to do it maybe just not today. but there's a certainty of where they're going that gives them determination. if y

i think it is similar to eric robert rudolph in that it was goose policing by a police officer.rea they were closing in on. >> it is amazing when you think about ho close he was to canada. he was not far from a heavily wooded forested area. our gary tuchman was saying it is not even a place that has trails it's that dense and from there it's uninterrupted all the way to the border. >> he may have been a little bit careless when he looked out and didn't see, you know this huge presence of law enforcement and the search teams. i think maybe he felt like he could make a sprint to the border. it wasn't that far. he had the maps to tell him that. so he took a chance. and i think probably fatigue was a factor as well. you get to where you can't think clearly. >> dr. kobe listenski, is there a way for authorities to tell how long ago a dna sample was left? i assume with rotted food there probably is if there is bugs or things like that but -- >> unfortunately, just looking at the dna itself you can't really tell. you can't tell when it was deposited. yes, you are right, let's say if it

time, because they only went away for three weeks, got away for three weeks, it wasn't like the eric rudolpht away -- you know, got away for five years. so i do think it will wear its way down. i understand what somebody said about a tv or a movie deal. you know, they do get around that kind of stuff. but he won't be able to reap any benefits of any of this. and anybody who thinks he's not going to be in confinement for a long time doesn't understand the prison system and what it's really about. he's going to be in confinement, and that's 23 hours a day lockdown. >> but someone was suggesting that perhaps through a lawyer if he did, in fact, write a book or screenplay or whatever, that he could reap benefits by having the money placed in certain trusts for perhaps family members. so there would be somebody benefiting from this. >> well, you know, again, there's going to be a lawyer who's going to come and try to figure out a way around anything. but i don't think he's going to -- i mean, what trust can they have that it's not going to be somebody, unless he signs all rights away to somebody

they could well be doing -- remember eric rudolph, the so-called olympic park bomber. he was going behind restaurants at night doing dumpster diving going in pulling out food and using that to eat. these guys could very well be feeding themselves that way. >> clint, thank you for being with me. we're monitoring all of the developments on the search for the fugitives and we'll bring you any new details on "the rundown." >> more breaking news on the president's trade push. i want to bring in kristen welker at the white house. good morning. the president heading over to capitol hill. >> that's right. breaking news jose. we just learned moments ago, according to a democratic aide on capitol hill president obama is going to be attending a meeting this morning with house democrats ahead of a really important vote later on today. in fact democrats, republicans, are going to vote on two pieces of legislation that could ultimately give president obama fast track authority to secure a broader trade deal a landmark trade agreement, which is really one of his signature pieces and

remember eric rudolph, the so-called olympic bomber close to five years. >> kevin coffey good to see d.a. at noon today. >>> a whole lot ahead on this edition of "the rundown." hillary clinton heads to south carolina just a day after her close confidante sid blumenthal was enter gatdinterrogated on capitol hill. >>> the 12th candidate to enter the race is already stepping into controversy. >> in your speech today, you said, some rapists are coming across the border from mexico. what did you mean about that? >> they are not their finest people. they're sending us people and it's people from other than mexico also. we have drug dealers coming across, we have rapists, we have killers, we have murderers. this is common sense, do you think they're going to send us their best people and their finest people? >> no. today her doctor has her on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. guys, it's just the two of you. the setting is just right. but here's the thing, about half

he led the search for eric robert rudolph. good to have you with us.in giving insight into how the escape was possible and what's going on in the prison? >> he's a very significant part of any investigation whether it's inspector general or the fbi. they are going to want to know who are the bad apples inside the prison. first and foremost then what and how they did what they did. >> a quick question on the side note just intrigue into this weird tale. how likely is it in your mind that joyce mitchell who agreed to help them go to mexico according to david sweat, take it for what it's worth, that they were going to kill her husband and part of the deal and that they were actually going to keep her alive and go to mexico with her. do those things surprise you? >> they do. i don't think either one was likely. if she were there when they popped out of the manhole, i don't think they would take time to divert to her house to kill her husband. i don't know why they want to do that that wastes time. secondly they had no use for her whatsoever. they would hav