russia is dependent on china in ways that china is not dependent on russia. but who is standing up for this alternative vision and pushing back most vigorously against the west? it is russia, not china. in that respect, it is not clear to me that they see themselves as russian partners and at some point russian greatness will not allow us to sustain that posture. bay: we have a question in coming from in from a member online. >> we will take the next question from robert hormetz. >> i would like to follow-up up richard's point on the trade issue. because one of the most important elements in trying to contain this grouping particularly in china, and to get other countries who you mentioned might be more attracted to china because of trade relations, the united states needs to have a coherent trade policy with countries other than the g7 oecd countries , which means a number of the emerging markets, global south. the problem is, in this administration, which you would have thought would have been inclined in that direction, it has been the opposite. like the p

we are about containing russia. and if we don't start off the truck, the administration started off, not only by preventing a nuclear war by ceasing this attack on russia, but by openly say that we no longer are seeking the strategic defeat of russia. because that's the, that's the, that there is a requirement for going forward. if we continue to pursue a policy that speak 6, the strategic defeat of russia, russian will never sit down at the table with us. why sit down and talk to an enemy who's trying to defend you? what you need to do therefore, is defeat the enemy, which is what russia is doing on the battlefield. a new, great, david, the way the it's being reported that, you know, mean what's coming out of the, by the ministration. which of course is trying to make the situation as worse as possible. and that is a new and remarkable achievement of this outgoing failed administration. but essentially what they're doing is they're saying what's have min minutes 3. i mean it's, you know, almost no one knows that be

russia is dependent on china in ways that china is not dependent on russia. but who is standing up for this alternative vision and pushing back most vigorously against the west? it is russia, not china. in that respect, it is not clear to me that they see themselves as russian partners and at some point russian greatness will not allow us to sustain that posture. bay: we have a question in coming from in from a member online. >> we will take the next question from robert hormetz. >> i would like to follow-up up richard's point on the trade issue. because one of the most important elements in trying to contain this grouping particularly in china, and to get other countries who you mentioned might be more attracted to china because of trade relations, the united states needs to have a coherent trade policy with countries other than the g7 oecd countries , which means a number of the emerging markets, global south. the problem is, in this administration, which you would have thought would have been inclined in that direction, it has been the opposite. like the p

an extra stipulation for russia. that's a critical words, words matter when you're dealing with russians and russian policy. this is an x, the central issue in russia is committed the national survival of russia to this conflict. and they are not going to deal. they are not going to draw it away. anything less that achieving the outcomes that they have articulated, which is no nato membership, the militarization of ukraine di notification to be trained anything less than that is a strategic defeat for russia. therefore, unacceptable to russia, in the less needs to understand that in pushing russia to this good, remember this conflict didn't begin in february 22. this conflict began well prior to 2014, but it, it took a detroit form in 2014, and russia has been seeking to avoid this conflict that entire time. what do you think permits one was? what do you think the bench to was? what do you think the rushing the effort to of to ensure us to get to main street in this, of all over the effort to avoid this very situatio

russia was very separate. the economy was separate and so it was for the rest of the world and that sort of when they worked and deepened and developed and became powerful. now we are back in a time of great power competition where the commercial rules, china doesn't follow the commercial rules these follow. so don't think they are fit for purpose. the question we are grappling with is can we make them fit, do we search for other ones and i think what's happening which in my view there's a lot of meetings and photo ops but not a lot of stuff there, just shows how hard it is in world great power competition how to create something that's much more comprehensive. >> rush: it is not just the postwar institutions that aren't fit for purpose but the new institutions either. china and india for example. or in the shanghai cooperation organisation which is stalled which is a mistake china should've thought about. michelle: there is this interesting sort of paradox where there is a tremendous amountbecause there are s

that could be good for russia, but maybe not. putin's forces are slowly advancing in ukraine, but at a staggering cost. the economic strain of war and sanctions is beginning to bite. my guest is vladimir kara—murza, the anti—putin activist, poisoned, thenjailed before being freed in a prisoner swap last year. putin can seemingly rely on the quiescence of the russian people. but for how long? vladimir kara—murza, in washington dc, welcome to hardtalk. hello, stephen. it's very good to be on your programme. it is great to see you there in washington. you, of course, have had pretty much six months now to get used to being a free man. are you used to it? well, frankly, it's still feels a little bit surreal because, you know, up untiljust a few months ago i was pretty certain that i was going to die in that siberian prison. and the prisoner exchange that happened on the 1st of august was a miracle — this is the only way i can express it. but it was in so many ways a human—made miracle because it was made possible by the relentless ad

they certainly. — on russia's economy? they certainly, they _ on russia's economy? have had - on russia's economy? they certainly, they have had an| certainly, they have had an economic impact in russia. today we see very high inflation there, the value of the rouble has really tumbled. the growth rates were strong because russia has a war economy and it is still making billions of dollars in revenue from hydrocarbon billions of dollars in revenue from hydrocarbo

we don't want a war with russia but the threat of a war with russia is what would make russia back down. guest: do you worry about the potential for security escalation there, either vertical or horizontal, something like nuclear war? guest: i do not, the reason because there are a lot of factors that mitigate against vladimir putin wanting to use nuclear force even though he threatens it all the time. they would be literal fallout for him, he also doesn't know what it would mean politically for him inside of russia. he's not in a very strong position politically inside russia, let's not forget about a year and a half ago when the russian warlord leader marched on moscow and if he had had a real partner inside the military establishment in russia he could have taken vladimir putin down. vladimir putin has demonstrated to be very weak in that instance. host: earlier this month, represented adam smith was a top democrat on the armed services committee as you both know, he was asked about the incoming trump administration and how a gop controlled congress might approach the conflict in ukr

they obviously have filed russia has continued to accumulate. uh for, for an um, for the reserves sides, it still gets a lot of money from sending an edge it to the world markets. if you think about your dependency relation dependence on russian gas, which i think a see, it says open coffee, steam that is pretty huge. exaggerated in europe has not post on function with all the russian gusts of, um, uh, included, russia has stopped functioning without sitting is goes to europe. so i saw the i, the sides have been blow so robust to rush cuz lots of ready to use from gas. but i have to say that's i'm most of for us and revenues from southern energy costs from oil a new way. so we were as gospel rushing, my statement, opening of god for gas has been huge, very hot in terms of losing its most lucrative market to um, to sanctions, uh, uh, the roster itself has been able to find ons. um, you know, it's more and it's um, um economy because it says have to get supplies to europe which including building up um your supplies to places like into which kind

and then, oh, russia, that's gong. and, and so now, you know, the, the, it's in iran that's in the cross hairs. and what are they going to do, really without any question, little drunk is going to launch. this is a maximum pressure campaign. 2 point oh. and you will find all kinds of separate this move and so the merging any around, you know, pollute, gives us areas um arabs, tubs codes, and all of which will cause be sponsored by the united states and then into around the world. we'll find most of the, some liberal movements emerging, you know, women will be demonstrating, taking off that he jobs. and the michael, the guy says democracy is thriving. and then of course, so given this of the chaos that's, let's go to emerge and syria, isis. isis is everywhere, you know, somehow, you know, that we, you know, we have to deal with isis. and the americans are going to say it as a realized as sudden, like suddenly, suddenly they came back suddenly and he came back. we have to deal with it and that's with the moment when they

was living in russia a few years ago of this uh, printer. uh, all of this uh, activities were used as a pretext to monitor the communication off of russian citizens. and then in many cases, used to suppress this. it is no developed country blocks messages for refusing to given cribson case to intelligence agencies, abolishing the right to privacy is a cure that is more dangerous than the disease itself. well, yes, he's fighting for francis digital future now and the west, even though he's already caved and has agreed to hand over ip addresses and phone numbers of users upon valid legal request. whatever that is, it's not russia that's making him check in with authorities twice. would be pending trial like a jealous girlfriend who blows up your phone with text messages when you're out for the night. guessing figure that may be the worst that could happen in the west is that he'd be yelled at by his, derek will public officials. mister zachary, are you into companies before us? i know you don't mean it to be so, but you have blood on your hand

china as a way to minimize russia. they are extremely dangerous as an adversary. the challenge russia faces now and really what they want and what putin strives for a sort of a multi polar world order where china and russia and the united states are all on somewhat level footing and dealing with each other. the problem russia has that china doesn't have is the united states is the world's largest economy. china is number two. rush is not in the top ten. in fact, my home state of texas has a larger economy and russia does here but russia, , so russa is focused less on the quantitative and more on the qualitative. unfortunately for us they may have a more limited tool, toolkit if you will but when you decide to use it there very effective and in some cases more dangerous than the chinese are. i'll give you an example. one area, china has a hard time, they can't get in a race with us where economically or with china, the have to compete. what they're doing in places like space, they are focusing on hypersonics and the kin

. . . , , russia began.proach the third anniversary _ russia began. sarah, as we approach the third anniversary of _ russia began. sarah, as we approach the third anniversary of russia's - the third anniversary of russia's full—scale invasion on the 22nd of february, three years at this ongoing fighting, you mentioned there the issues that ukraine's military has in plugging the gaps on the front lines, what is around like across the country? you the front lines, what is around like across the country?— the front lines, what is around like across the country? you know, it is difficult. obviously, _ across the country? you know, it is difficult. obviously, this _ across the country? you know, it is difficult. obviously, this country i difficult. obviously, this country is exhausted, obviously, the cost it has paid in nearly three years of war has been enormous, in terms of the lives lost, in terms of the damage to full—scale invasion on the 22nd of february, three years at this ongoing fighting, you mentioned

and russia will talk to august shortly. but 1st, this report from victoria couldn't be of russia and the soviet union spend half a century becoming a major supplier of gas to europe. but the war in ukraine has oh, but destroyed that business for the state energy giant gas problem. and now, russia's oldest gas supply line to the european union through ukraine. his shots after a 5 year deal between moscow and keys expired. which to the list of point is uh, we will always in favor of gas appliance of the supplies being above politics of the and being purely economic methods. we never said nothing to supplies to europe . ukraine, nearly a $1000000000.00 in transit fees last year. fawcett says, payments for the gas of helped russia to wages will run the country. russia is expected to lose $5000000000.00 annually. european country, most affected by the end of the transit deal is mold a is a, it's not part of the european union. it's being forced to impose a 60 day state of emergency and its energy sector before rush or invaded uk

so don't wanted and russia itself. and i, even though it was, you know, we bought into uh, got supply, but they really don't want to. you know, what could i deal says such a scenario straight. we do find why you create high that means wanted to restore if, if it was the results of savings to you, they would want to just um, remaining um notes due to pipeline which hasn't been blowing off yet. um and uh, the guest prospects don't, don't look good so far for russia about the time, you know, they're not in terms of the energy, which i think they just finishing a new facility on the multics which can use double the gas from the for just as an old stream. uh they did the ra pipelines to china. the only problem is that the new pipeline which would come from the, the gym all opinions july. his chinese, the, i think very hard negotiations on the doesn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon. but broadly speaking, i so they will survive it. you know, it's not, belittle, could you have a rising process of domestic life for, for

and russia isn't strapped for cash either. it's actually helping out others by launching a financial support fund for investment projects in africa in 2025 to the to know $2000000000.00 minimum. which brings us to the next points of all these sciences and field longer and actually push slusher to become better by expanding. and so the flight is friendships with all the partners around the world who are very eager to do business with moscow and reshape of global power dynamics. something was became crystal clear from russia, a host of the 16th brick summit the the, the west basically push russia and the global south into each other's arms. and they are now focused on building a union reflecting the new reality of a multi paula world, which doesn't mix business with politics, something which became evident when you cry and tried to get an international financial watch, though, so blacklist russia only to be met with objections from briggs power houses like china in the south africa, and even the persian gulf, more to pull that s

s, president, whoever that us present it is going to offer russia that russian will accept and, and russia's terms are unacceptable to any us president, an attempt by the donald trump administration to, uh, you know, play a role in, oh, he's going to cut a deal between russia and ukraine as if he some kind of neutral outside arbiter is just patently false. this is ultimately a conflict between russia and the united states. uh, on the united states. it is a proxy war, but it is a conflict to the us is losing, and trump owns that conflict. as soon as he comes into office and whatever, he may think of the average him and zalinski and in person in whatever, you know, political domestic gripes he has against them justified. he does not want to be known as the president to hand the ukraine over to vladimir pro. no, us president wants that on that record. so i predict that the. busy will continue, it will excel accelerate, it will escalate. and when porton talks to donald trump or his, you know, envoys or whatever and says yes, you know, oh thank you very much, but yet, yeah, it means net and then

whether it's 2025, all across the russia. and the nation's presidents loved him and put in his banks, old russians for the unity that help to overcome the issues the contra faced this past year. but i see it's a video of both napoleon, russia, this period has been filled with significant events. many of them of historical importance of way, but we have set of issues, goals, and achieve them repeatedly, overcoming challenges because we have been together. this is how well, what are you need to? well, not sure how we're facing our selves and our capabilities have grown stronger. yes, we still have a lot to work on. i'd say to what we can rightfully be proud of what we have already accomplished. this is our common heritage here. that's a reliable foundation for further development than you showed us. we are at the heart of moscow in the red square, and yes, well, it is close to the public and for security reasons, that did not stop people from coming out to celebrate. and as i'm speaking, there's a huge crowds right next to me.

i understand russia. so script that is when my sons day must go, i did not have the feeling that it was somewhat improved in some foreign country by just looks around with them. a milestone in the old inscriptions were in russian. we've already got you stripped and that's why i'm at home. i didn't run away from home. i returned home velocity, i've seen cry, muse, reunification with the brochure on my own initiative. i traveled to crimea when the referendum on reinstate cation with russia was held up in your store, within an eyesore with my own eyes, that there is nothing wrong with this. this was a true national impulse. so this is the true design of the people of crime me to re, you know, i, to the mainland. even then i had my 1st thoughts about anything. but it was not possible to implement at that time because of the, on the funding of ukrainian schools. that is, it was simply impossible to raise any funds for the move just to go home like an ordering person. you know? well, there are also threats offe

of russia. will anybody else if to sort ski the family defense use of the bill? so i'll skip crunch the 0 to and you know, just aggression later when you get the deal, you gotta shane your precious. can you get a feel secure trend of reviving the bonus, miscellaneous commonwealth of 22, the estimation of alexander the 2nd during the research companies was destructive of germany's intelligence that was involved in well, the reason when world war one began bills gave us $47.00 voluntarily turn the good working at awareness of the role and your name for security and you're right. good afternoon. there's going to what she said, so it is still pretty much any other window. sure, so, but she's considerable so crucial. joseph skis, opponents democrats, bremen, most of the leader of the ponies faction in the russian state, duma fame of poland. joining the war on russia signed a little scale or shift though still in the pitch. and that right now, could i ask him to levels gave him an analysis though i kn

the germany and russia wall retails at down and bloody battles. russia's allies, england, and france comfortably put their economies on a war fitting and prepared to come up, not just germany, but also russian territories to which the conditions were already in place. the better way of getting sick soon, but i was done schooling at the mill, which is thrash the especially impeding luxury is that if you have the bullets as most as lovely you subscribe was to 1917 the, the overthrow of nicholas the 2nd and the provisional government taking pallet proof disastrous from the battle from 1 march, the 2nd 1918. the bolsheviks who had 6 pallet were forced to sign the president of the russians. participation came to an end to give we run this through unless the town that i've seen you, fortunately, mutual, but you do have the courage that you'd have to deal with and has the rights to be completely independent in states and international matters and appeal to the opponents people petra grants, so the of walk us and so just deputies stolen was now free. get my bill. so let's get reverse the sit

the wall, so saying, proclaims russia was to become poland, knew well, that is the conquest of russia. it was compared to the discovery of america with its people sharing the faith of indigenous tribes. the powerless king no longer needs the treacherous boys. that he sense new conditions far from the original, the green tongues, the owner of russia should convert to catholicism. polish nobles will occupy state posts and he gets more into filled. the comes to suffer in regions reached by you to go away. so you will see my future cuz most that's i don't want to see him once. pretty no show here. soaps, i did too much for. yeah. so something use our pool. know pro force coordinates. that's a here. that is or thought, but you know, the voice, the consequence of them, it was mailed change meaning and then the principal shanaski who had to solve the issue with the intervention is settled in the greenland. the entire russian land rose up against the russians. comics taught us body and bush tiers load, veins and food modes. tolls of expelled the country, awaits those epsky simple as 1613 of t

we understand on the 1st of january, a 5 year deal between ukraine and russia came to an end. russia was adamant in 1st continuing that deal to ensure that energy flowed into europe, butts. ukraine, of course, oppose it. and we also recall the north stream attack in 2022, which rendered a great deal of russian exports to germany as well as the rest of the e. u, essentially meaningless. and this, of course, these 2 other alternatives, the blue stream and the church stream, both which run under the black sea serves not just russian or turkish and interests . but we understand that it also serves the interest of countries like hungry serbia, boston, hartzog, avina, slovakia, as well as greece. this is a significance, a step. this is a significant development if we take all of this into context. and we also understand that there's been a great deal of opposition or at least the slow but prime minister has been quite vocal in his position suggesting that the ukrainian leader of let him is unless he is someone who rooms your begging and black mailing western nations in the hope of extracti

so saying, proclaims russia was to become poland. new world, such as the conquest of russia was compared to the discovery of america, with its people sharing the faith of indigenous tribes. the powerless king no longer needs to try to risk boys. then he sent some new conditions far from the original, the green tubs, the owner of russia, should convert to catholicism. polish nobles will occupy state posts, and he gets more into subs that comes to suffering regions by y'all to go away. so you will see more folks each because most that so i don't want to see if you want to put in l. c o. c there stokes. i did too much for. yeah . so something use our call. no. pro force coordinates. that's a dear that isn't that, but you don't have a voice to consequence of what it was mailed, change meaning and the principal shanaski who had to solve the issue with the intervention is settled in the kremlin. the entire russian rows of the gates, the russians comics, taught us body and bush cares. more things and food modes, tolls of expelled the countr

so sam proclaims russia was to become poland, new world, such as the conquest of russia. it was compared to the discovery of america, with its people sharing the faith of indigenous tribes. the opponents king no longer needs the treacherous boys. then he sent some new conditions from the original the green tubs, the owner of russia should convert to catholicism. polish nobles were lucky by state posts and he gets more into subs becomes to suffer in regions privates, by y'all to go away. so you will see a lot of teach because most that so i don't want to see if you want to put in your c o. c there stokes i did. you must be yeah. so thing is our pool now full force coordinates. that's a deer that isn't that, but you know the last consequence of what it was we'll change meeting and then the principal shanaski who had to solve the issue with the intervention settled in the kremlin. the entire russian land rose up against the russians. comics taught us body and bush keeps mode villains and food modes. tolls are expelled. the country awaits those epsky similar as 1613 of the el

the warsaw sam proclaims russia was to become poland, new world, such as the conquest of russia. it was compared to the discovery of america, with its people sharing the faith of indigenous tribes. the powerless king no longer needs the treacherous boys. then he sent some new condition far from the original agree, tons. the owner of russia should convert to catholicism. polish nobles will occupy state posts and here, so it gets more into search. the comes to suffering regions for it to us by, you know, to go away. so you will see a lot of teach this most that so i don't want to see if you want to put in your c o . c. there stokes digital must korea. so some of these are cool, no pro force coordinates. that answer here is a thought, but you know, the voice to consequence of what it was mailed, change meaning. and then the principal shanaski who had to solve the issue with the intervention is settled in the kremlin. the entire russian rows of the gates, the russians. comics, taught us body and bush tiers, lovins and wood. moats. tolls are expelled. the country awaits those epsky sy

rich russia, the real documents. if i'm to, to remove brooks to the phones, livonia is an ancient russian system, dating back from the times of grand new piano slough, named duty upon baptism. who content the 2 lands and erected there, a city named in his own beauty of devonte and country pledge to pay tribute to russia and delivery and sent men to bound down to our grandfather, the great sovereign devonne and our father, that's all revel russia fussing. and seats about the needs of peace. russia has challenges and documents to prove it to claim to have on the terrible in his letter . so he felt he acted justly. he does not take what belongs to others, but other people times most been known to roost from ancient times. and poland had no claims to these lands because livonia wasn't able to run the punish rules. the fall tunes of war change fast to punish ami takes the toner and value kill you and procedure and no one was fed in a frenzied saddle. the king took the smoldering ruins, covered with blood, and toe, and bow

but for the west, they need a strategic defeat of russia, which russia is denying them. that's the dilemma jim. well, i was going to say, look, when they invoke mintz, i think what they want to do is minutes, 3 or minutes before i think they think they can get the russians to go along with them on the basis of. oh, that was biden's fault that were there for we'll be really good guys. we'll keep our word this time. you know, and i think you, i agree with you. i agree, but i, i, that's what they're going to go for. i agree. and unless they get that, if the fresher ends up with the 4 o less than premier and neutralize nato, everybody's going to know who won whatever word they went, they use, they use or not. and the europeans for 3 years have been say we cannot allow that to happen or it's a loss. yeah. i see but, but, but, but, but jim, that is get an idea of logical choice. ok. it's not a real list choice. i mean, you know, i was a trained to story and up until 1945 great powers. sometimes what a war sometimes said loss. okay. that's still, you know, and that's what happe